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dgreen

***OFFICIAL*** Washington Redskins Thread - Offseason starts now - Next group of fresh meat on the way

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6 minutes ago, dgreen said:

I'd like to see a game soon where Guice can get 20 touches. 

I dunno. I would just draft and/or sign a complimentary back(assuming both Thompson and Peterson are gone) to go with Guice. I don't really think it's all that important to have a 20 touch back. Even if you do manufacture one of those guys then they think they deserve a huge payday.

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1 hour ago, fatness said:

Norman was questionable right up til game time so I don't think he was "healthy",  just able to come in  if enough other guys got hurt. But I'm glad the younger guy started. I've always like Moreau. He covers very closely in man-to-man and gets called for holding as a result but he's usually around the receiver and the ball. And Dunbar is good, just unrecognized. I think if Norman takes a pay cut they'll keep him as a reserve next year, but I doubt he'll want that.

Right now's the time for all the young guys to be playing.

I'm not nearly as high on Dunbar as you are. He's more like a dime-back that battles to keep his job and needs to excel on ST on a GOOD team. He just doesn't seem like a starter on a better than .500 team from what I have seen. At $4mil this season and $4.5 next season he should either renegotiate or may not be on the team next season. I will admit he had one of his better games on Sunday though. It would have been much more impressive if he would have played that well against Stafford rather than a backup.

Moreau and Moreland have their highs and lows and those are the guys I would like to see whether they sink or swim. IMO Norman will be gone soon enough the real decisions on roster spots will be guys like Moreau/Moreland. I'd like to think Moreland could take over for Dunbar next season but maybe I'm being optimistic.

It would be interesting to see if Colvin needed a change of scenery or was just a mega-bust. 

Norman just seems gone to me. He would have to take such a huge paycut to stay I just don't see it happening for a player at that age to stay with a team that's as far away from contending as the Redskins. It's just a bad fit for both sides right now. Sure, a $3mil cap hit hurts in 2020 but not nearly as much as paying $15.5mil for a declining Norman to play below average. At least with a young guy they might be improving and still be on the roster when(if?) WAS is a winning team again.

While I'm not a subscriber(or even a full believer) in PFF ratings it would be very interesting to know what Norman/Dunbar ratings are considering they are paying $18mil on their starting CB duo this season. Seems to me they are getting a fraction of that in on field performance.

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I saw on twitter yesterday that apparently Snyder sees the firebruce tweets and signs and absolutely hates it.  Which makes me very happy!

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3 hours ago, BoltBacker said:

I dunno. I would just draft and/or sign a complimentary back(assuming both Thompson and Peterson are gone) to go with Guice. I don't really think it's all that important to have a 20 touch back. Even if you do manufacture one of those guys then they think they deserve a huge payday.

They drafted Bryce Love this past year.  I’d expect him to at least be the change of pace back next year if he recovers fully.  

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On 11/25/2019 at 1:35 PM, PinkydaPimp said:

I saw on twitter yesterday that apparently Snyder sees the firebruce tweets and signs and absolutely hates it.  Which makes me very happy!

I’d be surprised if he hates them for the reasons we want him to hate them. 

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10 minutes ago, Sidewinder16 said:

I’d be surprised if he hates them for the reasons we want him to hate them. 

hey it has his attention so i will take it.

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On 11/25/2019 at 11:13 AM, BoltBacker said:

I dunno. I would just draft and/or sign a complimentary back(assuming both Thompson and Peterson are gone) to go with Guice. I don't really think it's all that important to have a 20 touch back. Even if you do manufacture one of those guys then they think they deserve a huge payday.

Oh, I'm not necessarily saying I think they need to make their future plans based on Guice being a 20+ touch guy. I'm fine if they want to settle on a RBBC and get others some touches. But, in the short term, I want to see what Guice can do. I still feel like we don't know what he's capable of at this level. He's nearing the end of his second year in the league and he's played 69 snaps with 32 touches in his career. He's shown some good moves and power on a few runs, but he's averaging 2.7 yards per carry in his very limited action so far. I want to see more and in large chunks.

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4 hours ago, fatness said:

Panthers should be blown away by our tornadic offense today, right?

You called it!  😛

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The loss probably put Rivera out of a job.  That was some ugly playcalling. 

God, Bruce is gonna save his ### again with these miserable wins.  That sucks.

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On 11/26/2019 at 4:51 PM, dgreen said:

Oh, I'm not necessarily saying I think they need to make their future plans based on Guice being a 20+ touch guy. I'm fine if they want to settle on a RBBC and get others some touches. But, in the short term, I want to see what Guice can do. I still feel like we don't know what he's capable of at this level. He's nearing the end of his second year in the league and he's played 69 snaps with 32 touches in his career. He's shown some good moves and power on a few runs, but he's averaging 2.7 yards per carry in his very limited action so far. I want to see more and in large chunks.

The big question on Guise is health.  Yesterday vs. Carolina, he showed a lot of what he can do.  Yes, Panther's run defense is abysmal, but he showed both power, breakaway speed, and the ability to get in from the 1 (which Redskins fans should NOT take for granted).  In short, he showed that if he can stay healthy, he can indeed be a starting RB.  That said, I think in today's NFL, most teams want 2-3 RBs they can throw out there.  Gruden's comments about only needing 1 RB unless you are going to run it 50 times a game out of the I is assinine.  As for next year, if Peterson is not back, it's imperative that Bryce Love be ready to go.  Also, I really liked that RB they had in preseason -- Craig Reynolds -- and would not mind him getting a shot.  And yeah, if CT has played out his shelf life, they'll need a change of pace back.  You could give Smallwood the opportunity to play that role since he's already "bird in hand" but that type of guy can also be had in mid rounds of draft conceivably.

My main question Guise is can he stay healthy?  He looks good now, but multiple injuries already into his pro career.  Will this be a fluke or a pattern?  Bryce Love needs to be ready next year OR we need to  have another guy ready.  Don't throw all your eggs on one basket.  But, when he's healthy, I think it's ok to regard Guise as a # 1 caliber RB.  He does have that potential given above average line play.

On the subject of Guise, for those who actually watched the game, what did you think of his "beast mode" run?  It may have been my favorite offensive play of the year from the Redskins.  

Edited by MikeApf
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Guise run was nice.  If he can stay healthy, i think we have something in him.  I do hope we keep ADP next season.  Of course we need a line.  And a coach.  And a GM.  Also happy to see Haskins continue to learn.  I'm very glad we let him start the second half.  Looking forward to see where he can get to after a full offseason and 16 games as a starter. 

 

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16 minutes ago, PinkydaPimp said:

Guise run was nice.  If he can stay healthy, i think we have something in him.  I do hope we keep ADP next season.  Of course we need a line.  And a coach.  And a GM.  Also happy to see Haskins continue to learn.  I'm very glad we let him start the second half.  Looking forward to see where he can get to after a full offseason and 16 games as a starter. 

 

Haskins not progressing as fast as most of us want, BUT at least he is improving somewhat.  Vs. Jets he was missing open guys left and right.  Yesterday, he looked more accurate between the twenties, particularly when he threw a high velocity ball to a spot.  He also had a good long ball to McLaurin which McLaurin is gonna catch 95 times out of a 100 but which he didn't this time.  Haskins seems less accurate when he has to throw a little timing route vs. a laser pass.  Also, he's got to figure out how to move the team for touchdowns in the Red Zone.  Right now it is FG central.  So, there are areas where he needs to improve.  On the positive side, in a game where you play good defense and run for 250, the MOST important statistic is to have zero turnovers, so checkmark on that.  Also, I will say he does seem to have a bit of a winner's attitude that may not be entirely coachable.  The throw to Harmon to set up the AP TD run was very timely and he's also come up with some good, timely runs.  I do think he has a nose for winning, even when it's not "pretty."

I'd give him a B / B- for improvement.  He's definitely headed in the right direction.  But I think a lot of folks expect #15 overall pick to progress a little faster.

Edited by MikeApf

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7 minutes ago, MikeApf said:

Haskins not progressing as fast as most of us want, BUT at least he is improving somewhat.  Vs. Jets he was missing open guys left and right.  Yesterday, he looked more accurate between the twenties, particularly when he threw a high velocity ball to a spot.  He also had a good long ball to McLaurin which McLaurin is gonna catch 95 times out of a 100 but which he didn't this time.  Haskins seems less accurate when he has to throw a little timing route vs. a laser pass.  Also, he's got to figure out how to move the team for touchdowns in the Red Zone.  Right now it is FG central.  So, there are areas where he needs to improve.  On the positive side, in a game where you play good defense and run for 250, the MOST important statistic is to have zero turnovers, so checkmark on that.  Also, I will say he does seem to have a bit of a winner's attitude that may not be entirely coachable.  The throw to Harmon to set up the AP TD run was very timely and he's also come up with some good, timely runs.  I do think he has a nose for winning, even when it's not "pretty."

I'd give him a B / B- for improvement.  He's definitely headed in the right direction.  But I think a lot of folks expect #15 overall pick to progress a little faster.

Yea i agree but i feel he is progressing just fine.  Its never going to be quick enough for everyone but the guy was drafted knowing it would take a bit of time.  im fine with it.  If he hasnt made huge improvements by mid next season then yea its a cause for concern.  but after 3 games, im very happy with what i see. 

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16 minutes ago, PinkydaPimp said:

Yea i agree but i feel he is progressing just fine.  Its never going to be quick enough for everyone but the guy was drafted knowing it would take a bit of time.  im fine with it.  If he hasnt made huge improvements by mid next season then yea its a cause for concern.  but after 3 games, im very happy with what i see. 

Yeah, I see what you are saying.  It's funny, in the "old days," a rookie would sit for several years and no one would expect him to set the world on fire from Day One.  But today, we expect first rounders to come in and ramp up pretty rapidly.  That said, yeah, progress is good.  I only wish they would have started him sooner.  It feels like the real game experience is definitely helping him.  Hopefully, he steadily improves between now and end of year to the point where we feel comfortable starting him game 1 next year.  It would be good to go into the draft thinking Left Tackle round one vs. Quarterback round one...

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That was a bizarre football game.

Act 1: Total Devastation

Act 2: The long slow recovery and success

Act 3: Benny Hill

Acty 4: Custer's Last Stand

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I'm fine with where Haskins is and can see week-to-week improvement. How many delay of game penalties and false starts have we had since he took over? It seems a lot fewer than when the veterans were running the offense. His throws were more accurate yesterday. He moves in the pocket pretty well and knows when to run. He's got a long, long way to go to be a good QB but he seems totally comfortable out there. And I like the way he's congratualting defensive players and special teamers on the sideline. Good guy to have on the team.

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I hate the fact that we as fans are in the torn position of deciding whether the win was worth it. The Skins have broken me down pretty hard this year, I really lack the passion anymore. But Sunday was fun to see. Yet there's part of me that was thinking what we all were:

- crap, are they saving Bruce Allen's job?

- crap, did they just lose out on Chase Young?

I'll let the chips fall where they fall, but I was drooling over the thought of Young added to this front seven.  But the smart pick is probably some OL help anyway. 

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On 12/2/2019 at 9:27 PM, jbz said:

I hate the fact that we as fans are in the torn position of deciding whether the win was worth it. The Skins have broken me down pretty hard this year, I really lack the passion anymore. But Sunday was fun to see. Yet there's part of me that was thinking what we all were:

- crap, are they saving Bruce Allen's job?

- crap, did they just lose out on Chase Young?

I'll let the chips fall where they fall, but I was drooling over the thought of Young added to this front seven.  But the smart pick is probably some OL help anyway. 

I think winning is always better than not winning.  Players get used to winning.  Players learn how to win.  Players you didn't think were "as good as a high draft pick" raise their games and play "better than a high draft pick."  In short, you develop a culture of winning.  And so on.

The draft pick will be what it is.  If draft was everything then Pittsburgh wouldn't be winning with a third string QB.  There is something else in Pittsburgh's culture, beyond "getting high draft picks."

The Bruce Allen situation will be what it is.  If Snyder is so dumb that he would spare Allen's job based on a small winning streak, then we're doomed anyway.  If he's truly that dumb, he'll either hire the wrong guy, or do something else equally stupid.

In short, I don't buy any of the arguments that losing is better. Winning is better.  It's always better.  

A lot of us on this thread probably played sports throughout our lives.  We always wanted to win. Whether the game counted or not.  And those that didn't care, I'm sorry but if you don't care about winning when you are down, then you also won't have the same level of fight if you are down two scores in the fourth quarter of a championship game.

OK, rant off...

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As much as I joke around about losing to get Bruce fired, winning is a habit and is important for the younger players.

MikeApf has it correct.  Players are always gonna play to win.  Coaches are always gonna coach to win.  It's the natural instinct of anyone that has played any sport at a reasonable level.  The only way a team should lose by tanking is if it comes from above by personnel moves that essentially harm the team's chances to win, and Bruce proves over and over even when trying he's gonna screw up personnel decisions.  But hey, he's pretty good at picking punters, maybe since it's part of his limited skill set.

Frankly the #1 pick vs the #6 pick in the draft doesn't much matter.  Maybe there is more trade value if you move down, but as for the pick itself even the best evaluators are only making an educated guess.  Plenty of top 3 picks have been terrible or gotten injured.  The Skins have so many holes that one great draft pick isn't fixing anything.  They need players at pretty much every position except QB, and that's assuming one believes in Haskins.   And it's probably 1-2 years from knowing on him.  The Pats are always picking at the end, and they do fine.  Talent can be found in all rounds of the draft.

Dan has likely already made the decision on Bruce.  If he hasn't determined by now to let him "step down", it will take more than something on the field to make it happen.  Like Bruce taking his keys to Dan's Maybach.

Edited by Brunell4MVP

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In an ironic twist, Duane Haskins is starting at QB this weekend and Daniel Jones is benched at QB.

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On 12/4/2019 at 7:30 AM, MikeApf said:

I think winning is always better than not winning.  Players get used to winning.  Players learn how to win.  Players you didn't think were "as good as a high draft pick" raise their games and play "better than a high draft pick."  In short, you develop a culture of winning.  And so on.

The draft pick will be what it is.  If draft was everything then Pittsburgh wouldn't be winning with a third string QB.  There is something else in Pittsburgh's culture, beyond "getting high draft picks."

The Bruce Allen situation will be what it is.  If Snyder is so dumb that he would spare Allen's job based on a small winning streak, then we're doomed anyway.  If he's truly that dumb, he'll either hire the wrong guy, or do something else equally stupid.

In short, I don't buy any of the arguments that losing is better. Winning is better.  It's always better.  

A lot of us on this thread probably played sports throughout our lives.  We always wanted to win. Whether the game counted or not.  And those that didn't care, I'm sorry but if you don't care about winning when you are down, then you also won't have the same level of fight if you are down two scores in the fourth quarter of a championship game.

OK, rant off...

Well said! Thank you for that perspective. I guess some of us (me) have been so poisoned by this leadership that it's changing the way we react to Ws/Ls. 

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On 12/4/2019 at 7:17 PM, fatness said:

In an ironic twist, Duane Haskins is starting at QB this weekend and Daniel Jones is benched at QB.

Jones isn't benched, he's hurt

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9 hours ago, jbz said:

Well said! Thank you for that perspective. I guess some of us (me) have been so poisoned by this leadership that it's changing the way we react to Ws/Ls. 

Oh, I get it!  🙂

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On ‎12‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 1:57 PM, Brunell4MVP said:

As much as I joke around about losing to get Bruce fired, winning is a habit and is important for the younger players.

MikeApf has it correct.  Players are always gonna play to win.  Coaches are always gonna coach to win.  It's the natural instinct of anyone that has played any sport at a reasonable level.  The only way a team should lose by tanking is if it comes from above by personnel moves that essentially harm the team's chances to win, and Bruce proves over and over even when trying he's gonna screw up personnel decisions.  But hey, he's pretty good at picking punters, maybe since it's part of his limited skill set.

Frankly the #1 pick vs the #6 pick in the draft doesn't much matter.  Maybe there is more trade value if you move down, but as for the pick itself even the best evaluators are only making an educated guess.  Plenty of top 3 picks have been terrible or gotten injured.  The Skins have so many holes that one great draft pick isn't fixing anything.  They need players at pretty much every position except QB, and that's assuming one believes in Haskins.   And it's probably 1-2 years from knowing on him.  The Pats are always picking at the end, and they do fine.  Talent can be found in all rounds of the draft.

Dan has likely already made the decision on Bruce.  If he hasn't determined by now to let him "step down", it will take more than something on the field to make it happen.  Like Bruce taking his keys to Dan's Maybach.

Regarding the draft, it would be great if they could get Andrew Thomas, offensive lineman from Georgia.  Plug him in right away as Trent replacement and hopefully trade Williams for a number 2.  

I don't think you'll need the number one pick to get Thomas, because some of the teams at the very bottom right now will be looking for QBs.  But, we may need a top 5 or something.  Who knows where we'll end up, but like you say, you just gotta play to win every game and then pick the best player wherever you pick.  

I'm not sure if there is another offensive linemen that warrants picks early in the first round though.  I've looked at some mocks and Thomas appears to be the best available and very highly rated...

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8 hours ago, MikeApf said:

Regarding the draft, it would be great if they could get Andrew Thomas, offensive lineman from Georgia.  Plug him in right away as Trent replacement and hopefully trade Williams for a number 2.  

I don't think you'll need the number one pick to get Thomas, because some of the teams at the very bottom right now will be looking for QBs.  But, we may need a top 5 or something.  Who knows where we'll end up, but like you say, you just gotta play to win every game and then pick the best player wherever you pick.  

I'm not sure if there is another offensive linemen that warrants picks early in the first round though.  I've looked at some mocks and Thomas appears to be the best available and very highly rated...

Yes, Andrew Thomas would seem to be an excellent choice.  Austin Jackson also.

I think they have to hope a new DC can fix the defense.  There seems to be some talent there.  Definitely need some talent at CB, but otherwise I think they can get by. 

This offseason would figure to be more about OL, TE, and a 3rd down RB that can stay healthy.  Maybe a LB and a CB so they could rid themselves of Norman.  But they gotta get the left side of the OL fixed to give DH a chance.

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On 12/6/2019 at 11:25 AM, DallasDMac said:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/trent-williams-unloads-bruce-allen-222506966.html

Some pretty strong stuff there about Allen. Stuff a lot of us have been saying for years. Nice to hear it said by the best player (formerly) on the team.

Quote

“I just don’t understand. In any business world, when the employer has someone who is underperforming, he finds another one. I don’t know in the last 10 years if there is a worse record [for] someone who has held their job for 10 years and performed the way they performed and still have a job. I don’t know. That would be good to look up and [see] just who else is in that company. I would be thrilled to find out.”

 

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On 12/6/2019 at 11:29 AM, matttyl said:

So with Dallas losing last night, we still have a shot, right?

Depends on whether you believe in math or reality. Math says yes. Reality says no.

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So mcl for Guice.  Damn shame.  Might that be a career?  
 

Hearing A lot of chatter about Bruce not surviving this.  🤷🏽‍♂️

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6 minutes ago, PinkydaPimp said:

So mcl for Guice.  Damn shame.  Might that be a career?  
 

Hearing A lot of chatter about Bruce not surviving this.  🤷🏽‍♂️

Poor kid.    Seems like he's never going to stay healthy for long.   

Considering Vinny's Win/Loss Record as GM is better than Allen's,  Bruce should have been fired years ago.   

 

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9 hours ago, dcgangstas said:

Vinny's Win/Loss Record as GM is better than Allen's

Just wanted to repeat this.

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12 hours ago, PinkydaPimp said:

So mcl for Guice.  Damn shame.  Might that be a career?  
 

Hearing A lot of chatter about Bruce not surviving this.  🤷🏽‍♂️

Have MRI results been released?? It was odd, he looked FINE yesterday after the injury, stood on the sidelines for a long time, then sat on the bench with his team mates, talking, smiling, no ice, no wrap, nothing. I hope he gets lucky and its just a scare, maybe a sprain and nothing torn. He's such a likable player, and truly, he's looked great every touch he's had...he just can't stay on the field :( 

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3 hours ago, fatness said:

Just wanted to repeat this.

:X If Allen isn't gone by the end of this month something is really really wrong with Snyder. Maybe he's had a lot of concussions too? ;) 

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2 hours ago, ffmail4me said:

Have MRI results been released?? It was odd, he looked FINE yesterday after the injury, stood on the sidelines for a long time, then sat on the bench with his team mates, talking, smiling, no ice, no wrap, nothing. I hope he gets lucky and its just a scare, maybe a sprain and nothing torn. He's such a likable player, and truly, he's looked great every touch he's had...he just can't stay on the field :( 

Yeah, his running looks better and better the more we see him. I will say, though, that lots of players look fine walking around after tearing a ligament. Not sure how much that tells us.

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Allen has made so any mistakes as a GM it's hard to determine what the worst ones are, but to me it has always come down to making decisions based on ego.  Whether it be a Trent WIlliams trade request, or sticking with RG3 too long, or thinking Cousins is another Trent Dilfer, or trading Alex Smith without asking the coach, or making Gruden add Callahan and others to his staff,  or running McCloughan out of town, or picking up Norman for no other reason that to say he got the best player in FA, or consistently thinking past injured players will be able to contribute year long (Reed, Thompson, Guice as of late), or running Shanny out of town so he could be GM in name again, or being voted worst GM since he's not trustworthy.  Tghe lst goes on and on how he cares more about the splash he is making, rather than solid organizational decisions.  Always the next decision will be the one that does it, and nobody is gonna pull one over on him. 

I don't even know his moves look all that bad on paper.  But they are ego driven decisions, rather than organizationally smart decisions.  How else can you explain a HC finding out Alex Smith will be his QB without having even an iota of input.  Or turning down any pick for an aging LT?  What could smack of more ego than that?

Sadly I think Callahan may be saving Allen's job.  Allen is in there right now telling Dan that if Callahan can get them to play hard, imagine what a new coach will do.  Just let me pick him Dan and you'll see.

 

 

Edited by Brunell4MVP
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Seeing reports that Bruce may get fired this week.... no one credible yet but....  🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽

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Jason La Canfora

Quote

Allen's role in the organization remains of vital importance to coaching candidates, with the team's personnel and record failing under his leadership. Sources said Dan Snyder is beginning to understand the gravity of his situation and that major changes could be coming to the Skins front office this week.

I do remember La Canfora being the first to report that Trent was holding out due to medical reasons, so he still has some good Redskin sources.

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One insider predicted that at least five or six GM-type jobs will open up, after only two changes last year (Raiders, Jets). Washington’s Bruce Allen, the Giants’ Dave Gettleman, Jacksonville’s Caldwell, Denver’s Elway, and Atlanta’s Thomas Dimitroff are in trouble, with Detroit’s Quinn and the Rams’ Les Snead as long shots. One source said the Panthers’ job is actually open and that current GM Marty Hurney, who was kept on by owner David Tepper, will move into more of an advisory role. And the source said he still believes the Texans will try to add someone to the front office, Caserio or otherwise.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/patriots/2019/12/07/what-nfl-teams-are-verge-making-changes/fo4fIs6TwAyq2LoXpMHdSL/story.html

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