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***OFFICIAL*** Washington Redskins Thread - Offseason starts now - Next group of fresh meat on the way

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23 hours ago, Brunell4MVP said:

Peyton signing makes me guess that Bryce Love's injury is worse than expected and he's headed back to the PUP or even cut.  

I don't think it says anything other than Rivera can't count on Guice/a 35yo Peterson/Love to play a full season. 

Today they signed Latimer and I think it was the same type of signing. He just wants bodies to compete for jobs in camp. Probably also wants to go into the draft without a DESPERATE need at certain positions. Still think they are absolutely desperate at CB right now even after the Fuller signing.

Kevin Johnson 1yr/$3.5mil

Jalen Mills 1yr/$4mil

Darqueze Dennard 3yr/$13.5mil

..... are a few of the guys I think they should have been interested in. I'd still be curious to see how much Ronald Darby, Xavier Rhodes, and Daryl Worley sign for. Worley even has experience in the Rivera defense.

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Just noticed Greg Manusky got a new job.  Quality Control Assistant at University of Kentucky.   Yowzers.  That's a long fall.

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48 minutes ago, BoltBacker said:

Another good move by the Skins. Darby 1yr/4. 

I know nothing about him.  Is he good?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, PinkydaPimp said:

I know nothing about him.  Is he good?

He was very good when healthy (ACL, hip)  Surprised they got him this cheap.  My guess is the market for him wasn't what he expected, and he's betting on himself with a 1 year contract.

Edited by Brunell4MVP

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2 hours ago, PinkydaPimp said:

I know nothing about him.  Is he good?

No

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On 3/29/2020 at 11:38 PM, PinkydaPimp said:

I know nothing about him.  Is he good?

I liked him as a prospect coming into the league. IMO he hits the field as the #2 CB so at $4mil that's pretty good. 

More than anything I like the fact that a couple of weeks ago they had a CB(Dunbar) that was scheduled to make $3.4+mil this season but he was threatening to holdout or demanding a trade. Now they have Darby(who obviously wants to play at the salary because he just signed the contract) and a 5th round pick instead. Both have injuries in their history but I think Darby may actually have a higher ceiling between the two players. Most importantly, you just start the season with guys that actually want to be on the team. 

After the Dunbar tweet criticizing the signing this swap makes even more sense.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/30/2020 at 1:51 AM, Brunell4MVP said:

He was very good when healthy (ACL, hip)  Surprised they got him this cheap.  My guess is the market for him wasn't what he expected, and he's betting on himself with a 1 year contract.

Add to that this is a really terrible season to be a FA when you are coming off an I.R. because teams don't have the opportunity to check you out medically. That could have contributed to the FA cold shoulder he experienced more than his actual play on the field. He's a former 1st round pick and slightly younger than Dunbar. If I were a WAS he was definitely one of the guys that should have been on the short list of CB's to look at if the price was right.

Dre Kirkpatrick was just released today and while he's older than Darby WAS should consider taking a flyer on that guy as well if he isn't too expensive. There was a blurb at Rotoworld at Damarious Randall was rumored to be brought in to pair with Collins at S. That makes a lot of sense to me. WAS needs all the help in coverage they can get.

Edited by BoltBacker
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With the NFL Draft less than a month away, the Redskins are expressing a growing interest in Clemson linebacker Isaiah Simmons and a willingness to trade out of the second overall pick, says NFL Insider Jason La Canfora. "The more people I talk to, the more I strongly believe that Washington is open to moving out of this pick, and maybe even slightly motivated," La Canfora said Monday morning on CBS Sports HQ. "And that's not a slight on Chase Young, but I continue to hear they've fallen in love with Isaiah Simmons." "They're looking at their draft boards, and they're looking at the breakdown of their roster and they're seeing holes all over the place," he continued. "And Ron Rivera knows he doesn't need just quality, he needs quantity as well."

What do you guys think about trading down, especially if it was for Simmons? 

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ffmail4me said:

With the NFL Draft less than a month away, the Redskins are expressing a growing interest in Clemson linebacker Isaiah Simmons and a willingness to trade out of the second overall pick, says NFL Insider Jason La Canfora. "The more people I talk to, the more I strongly believe that Washington is open to moving out of this pick, and maybe even slightly motivated," La Canfora said Monday morning on CBS Sports HQ. "And that's not a slight on Chase Young, but I continue to hear they've fallen in love with Isaiah Simmons." "They're looking at their draft boards, and they're looking at the breakdown of their roster and they're seeing holes all over the place," he continued. "And Ron Rivera knows he doesn't need just quality, he needs quantity as well."

What do you guys think about trading down, especially if it was for Simmons? 

 

Ever since Jack Del Rio posted a video of Simmons on his Twitter a month ago I think they've had their eyes on Simmons.  He fills a far, far bigger need, because they are gonna have 6 quality DL if they take Young (5 if Kerrigan leaves next year or really plays LB).  So I do like trading down if they can get Simmons.

BUT ... I can't figure out how they get out of #2 and only move down to #4.  I mean if Chase + Burrow + Tua go in top 3, and NYG is picking at #4 there's a 50/50 chance NYG are taking either Simmons or a LT. 

So how does WAS make this move?  I can see them trading with MIA and getting back #5 and #18.  It's a solid move.  But at #5 they risk losing Simmons.  The consolation prize would be Okudah (plus #18).  I just don't think a CB, even as a huge need, has the same long term effect as adding Chase Young.

So while I think they want to make a move down, I'm not seeing how they can actually pull it off.

Edited by Brunell4MVP

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I just wish there as someone as stupid as Bruce Allen running another team who'd give us an RG3 type package to move up a few spots. :doh:

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16 hours ago, Brunell4MVP said:

So how does WAS make this move?  I can see them trading with MIA and getting back #5 and #18.  It's a solid move.  But at #5 they risk losing Simmons.  The consolation prize would be Okudah (plus #18).  I just don't think a CB, even as a huge need, has the same long term effect as adding Chase Young.

I understand that nearly everyone has Young ranked as the top prospect in the draft but even if you miss out on Simmons you could still take either Willis/Wirfs at #5 and either Fulton or Chaisson at #18. That isn't a bad backup plan if Simmons wasn't there.

MIA has 14 picks in this draft so it also wouldn't be out of the question if they were willing to give up #5, #26, and #56 to move up instead of #5 and #18. I might like that even better if I was a new coaching staff trying to rebuild. Simmons would be the perfect fit for a Rivera defense but Baun may be there at #26. Rivera likes smart LB's that can play all three downs and it seems to me he fits that bill nicely.

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18 hours ago, ffmail4me said:

What do you guys think about trading down, especially if it was for Simmons? 

The only thing that would be smarter than trading down would be trading down a few times. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, BoltBacker said:

MIA has 14 picks in this draft so it also wouldn't be out of the question if they were willing to give up #5, #26, and #56 to move up instead of #5 and #18. I might like that even better if I was a new coaching staff trying to rebuild.

 

3 hours ago, BoltBacker said:

The only thing that would be smarter than trading down would be trading down a few times. 

 

I agree with these.comments 100%.  I'm of the belief that impact players exist throughout the draft if they are used correctly, coached correctly, play with energy, and work hard.  Obviously top picks have a better chance of being HUGE, IMMEDIATE impact players.  But WAS is way, way , way short on talent and depth all over the roster.  In their 2-3 year plan to not absolutely suck they need talent and depth at TE, LB, CB, LT, LG, WR and maybe QB.  They simply need lots and lots of fresh blood.  The healthy offensive talent is abysmal.  Guice would really add a lot.  But I see him as a player that you have to assume won't be there until he is.

The question is, how do they parlay the #2 pick and Trent Williams into more draft stock.  Gonna be interesting how it all pans out.  I hope they can do it.  If not Young is a fine player to end up with.  But in their situation more picks, even in 2021, would seem to the right move.

Edited by Brunell4MVP

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6 minutes ago, nittanylion said:

Great player.

One of 16 players with a 99 yard offensive TD.

Not just a WR. Also played RB early in career in Cleveland and was a great KR/PR with 8 TDs there.

And, obviously, broke the Redskins color barrier. 

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I would not trust most NFL DC's to use Simmons creatively enough to make him worth anywhere near what almost any old DC could get out of Young...Del Rio is one of the few I think could arguably do it, as Simmons is really a unique scheme changing talent...but even if you could add another 1st rounder it would still be a tough trigger to pull.

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11 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 almost any old DC could get out of Young

I feel like we heard a lot of that when Dante Fowler and Vic Beasley came out. 

Don't get me wrong, pass rushers are a valuable commodity in the NFL but there are also misses on premier pass rushers. In general I also think it's better to have a quarter than six nickels so I understand the argument "just take the highest rated player instead of several lower rated players".... but WAS is in a complete and total rebuild at this point. A lot of people are saying is Simmons + another blue chip prospect could very easily be worth what Young is so it's not Young VS Simmons it's really Young vs a package that may include Simmons. If Simmons can be 85% of what Keuchly was in the Rivera defense(3 down LB, sideline to sideline, good in coverage) then he is absolutely worth the #2 pick all by himself. The LB's in Rivera's system are meant to be the playmakers all over the field, not just pass rush specialists. Both Thomas Davis and Shaq Thompson were considered LB/S hybrids by a lot of people when they were drafted by CAR.

I think MIA is the ideal trade partner because they could afford to give up #5, #26, #56 and maybe Gesicki(TE) for the #2 and... #108? That leaves MIA with their mid-1st rounder, and their early 2nd rounder. Gesicki was drafted by Gase and the old regime so they have fewer ties to him and may be interested in drafting a true two-way TE that can contribute more in the running game. MIA has 14 draft picks so it wouldn't surprise me if they are looking to move up in this draft and if Tua really is their QB of the future that's not as steep a price to move up as Wentz/Goff/RGIII type trades were.

Honestly, in the modern NFL the QB position and perhaps just as importantly having your QB of the future on his rookie contract is such a huge advantage I think WAS should just take Tua if nobody is willing to deal. He could easily end up being THE FRANCHISE player in this entire draft. Until you know you for sure that you have your QB of the future you should be looking. The Eagles took a lot of criticism when they drafted Wentz when they already went out and signed Bradford to a significant deal. The Browns took criticism when they paid more than backup money to Tyrod and then drafted Baker. Hopefully you won't have an opportunity to draft in the top 3 picks again in a long, long time so if you have a chance to take a player that changes the face of the franchise you have to take that chance imo. I'm not saying Haskins is a bust btw, but if you have two young talented QB's on rookie deals it's not the biggest problem in the world. Especially in a league where so many teams are rolling out guys in their 30's and 40's. Demand for QB wasn't there THIS YEAR but it will be there in the near future. If anything, WAS is the ideal situation for Tua in that Haskins/Allen can start the season on the active roster and Tua can be brought along slowly and only be on the active roster when he's ready. It always surprises me when so many teams don't copy the Mahomes blueprint and let a rookie adjust to the NFL instead of just throwing him out there to sink or swim after they have seen a few QUARTERS in the preseason vs vanilla defenses and second stringers.

I don't dislike Young as a prospect I just think WAS needs so much more than a pass rusher in the first two rounds of this draft even if he is the best pass rusher prospect.

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The more I hear people struggle to invent reasons Tua will fall to the 5th, 6th, (later?) pick in the draft the more convinced I am WAS should just draft Tua at #2. This reminds me of 2017 when people were afraid to draft Mahomes(10th) and Watson(12th) based on their downside instead of looking at their upside. I fully admit Young is likely to be a pro-bowl player. But it seems to me Tua also should eventually be a pro-bowl player. The difference if Young makes the pro-bowl you have probably eeked your way to at least 7 wins. If Tua is a pro-bowler you are probably a playoff team. It's just hard to put a value on paying a pro-bowl quality QB on a rookie contract for multiple seasons. If you are sitting at #2 why not swing for the fences with your pick? 

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18 minutes ago, BoltBacker said:

The more I hear people struggle to invent reasons Tua will fall to the 5th, 6th, (later?) pick in the draft the more convinced I am WAS should just draft Tua at #2. This reminds me of 2017 when people were afraid to draft Mahomes(10th) and Watson(12th) based on their downside instead of looking at their upside. I fully admit Young is likely to be a pro-bowl player. But it seems to me Tua also should eventually be a pro-bowl player. The difference if Young makes the pro-bowl you have probably eeked your way to at least 7 wins. If Tua is a pro-bowler you are probably a playoff team. It's just hard to put a value on paying a pro-bowl quality QB on a rookie contract for multiple seasons. If you are sitting at #2 why not swing for the fences with your pick? 

Analytics guys over at PFF and ESPN agree with you.

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, BoltBacker said:

The more I hear people struggle to invent reasons Tua will fall to the 5th, 6th, (later?) pick in the draft the more convinced I am WAS should just draft Tua at #2. This reminds me of 2017 when people were afraid to draft Mahomes(10th) and Watson(12th) based on their downside instead of looking at their upside. I fully admit Young is likely to be a pro-bowl player. But it seems to me Tua also should eventually be a pro-bowl player. The difference if Young makes the pro-bowl you have probably eeked your way to at least 7 wins. If Tua is a pro-bowler you are probably a playoff team. It's just hard to put a value on paying a pro-bowl quality QB on a rookie contract for multiple seasons. If you are sitting at #2 why not swing for the fences with your pick? 

There's a lot of sense in what you say.  If they think Tua (or Hebert) is better than Haskins, now is the time to take them.  There's no guarantee you'll be in the top 5 of the draft in 2021 or 2022.  And with the system change and COVID, Haskins might as well be a rookie by the time practices start.

I've said it before - I think taking a QB every year in the first 3 rounds until you find the right guy makes a lot of sense.  And there's nothing saying Haskins is or isn't the right guy.  Not enough game time to tell.

 

 

 

Edited by Brunell4MVP

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Posted (edited)

If they take a QB, I hope they trade Haskins to NE for a 2nd rounder. He deserves a shot to start somewhere and we could use some picks. 

Edited by ffmail4me

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I'm still in the camp of taking Chase or trading down.  Look, you can win in this league with an average QB and a strong D.  In fact its much easier to build a winning team with a strong D and a QB who doesnt turn the ball over.   And we still have strong upside in Haskins.  No way do i see Tua getting drafted. 

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54 minutes ago, PinkydaPimp said:

I'm still in the camp of taking Chase or trading down. 

It depends on the trade down scenario.

If the could fill both the desperate OT and CB needs with quality players I'd be for that(especially if you could get a Gesecki type to sweeten the deal) but only if it's a first/second tier OT AND CB. Filling OT/CB/TE with young players would be the safer approach but one of the only ways you could do that is a trade with MIA, unless OAK does something unexpected because Gruden falls in love with either Tua or Herbert. 

I don't want anyone to think that I'm throwing up my hands and giving up on Haskins, although there were rumors he had trouble integrating into the offense last season and this will be his second new offense in two years. In fact, I'd go as far to say the entire reason they could swing for the fences with Tua is they already have Haskins/Allen and they wouldn't have to rush Tua into the lineup. I just see Allen as a warm body that knows the offense in case there isn't as long an offseason as most new HC's would ideally want. If Tua truly does turn out to be "injury prone" they still have Haskins on a cheap contract to make several starts. They miss the pass rusher but honestly they've been pouring so many picks and money into the front seven it isn't any less redundant to keep pouring resources there either.

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1 hour ago, ffmail4me said:

If they take a QB, I hope they trade Haskins to NE for a 2nd rounder. He deserves a shot to start somewhere and we could use some picks. 

Trouble with that is NE has a lot of picks, but not many near the top. They have #23 in the first, then 87, 98, 100 all near the bottom of the third round. Third rounders are valuable this year if you are in need of WR's but I wouldn't give Haskins for any combination of low 3rds until you actually saw Tua in uniform and playing in practice. Sometimes the coaches just know, early on. That's how it was for Russel Wilson.

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Posted (edited)

They're not taking a QB all signs point to Young, Redskins insiders saying it's Young.  I looked at Miami's roster and they need every one of those picks,  I don't see them trading up they may pass on Tua themselves he has failed two physicals.  Without a trade down partner Chase is the best bet.

Edited by NorrisB
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7 minutes ago, NorrisB said:

They're not taking a QB all signs point to Young, Redskins insiders saying it's Young.  I looked at Miami's roster and they need every one of those picks,  I don't see them taking up they may pass on Tua themselves he has failed two physicals.  Without a trade down partner Chase is the best bet.

Were those two physicals post-combine? I'm not saying that you are wrong btw just that I don't know when they happened and I'm not even quite sure what his rehab schedule was to know whether he's behind or ahead of schedule. There was certainly a lot of talk that 2020 would be his "redshirt" year in the NFL. I think Mahomes only played in one game as a rookie. I think he was worth the wait.

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6 minutes ago, BoltBacker said:

Were those two physicals post-combine? I'm not saying that you are wrong btw just that I don't know when they happened and I'm not even quite sure what his rehab schedule was to know whether he's behind or ahead of schedule. There was certainly a lot of talk that 2020 would be his "redshirt" year in the NFL. I think Mahomes only played in one game as a rookie. I think he was worth the wait.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article241873141.html

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/20200408/nfl-draft-tua-tagovailoa-fails-two-teamsrsquo-physicals-ex-gm-lombardi-says

 

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13 minutes ago, NorrisB said:

Thanks.

Yeah, I heard some blurb about Lombardi I just didn't really know when the physicals took place. I guess I just have a checkered history of listening to that guy. He was pretty sure that ARZ wouldn't take Murray. And he said anyone taking Metcalf before Harry was an "idiot". I think he was also behind the move to ship Randy Moss from the Raiders to the Patriots for a 4th round draft pick in 2007 because Moss "couldn't run" anymore.

I mean, if you make a living talking about football and the draft you'll have some misses. But those are some big ones.

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8 hours ago, BoltBacker said:

It depends on the trade down scenario.

If the could fill both the desperate OT and CB needs with quality players I'd be for that(especially if you could get a Gesecki type to sweeten the deal) but only if it's a first/second tier OT AND CB. Filling OT/CB/TE with young players would be the safer approach but one of the only ways you could do that is a trade with MIA, unless OAK does something unexpected because Gruden falls in love with either Tua or Herbert. 

I don't want anyone to think that I'm throwing up my hands and giving up on Haskins, although there were rumors he had trouble integrating into the offense last season and this will be his second new offense in two years. In fact, I'd go as far to say the entire reason they could swing for the fences with Tua is they already have Haskins/Allen and they wouldn't have to rush Tua into the lineup. I just see Allen as a warm body that knows the offense in case there isn't as long an offseason as most new HC's would ideally want. If Tua truly does turn out to be "injury prone" they still have Haskins on a cheap contract to make several starts. They miss the pass rusher but honestly they've been pouring so many picks and money into the front seven it isn't any less redundant to keep pouring resources there either.

Allen is Colt mccoy.  He’s there to teach the offense.  That’s it.  No way he starts unless Haskins is hurt.  
 

most of the reason Haskins took time to integrate was because he got no reps until he was thrown in.  After that he got better every game.  I look forward to seeing him with a full offseason(if that happens) but even if it’s short he needs to be the guy.  Allen is a worst case scenario.

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If I were the Redskins, I'd be willing to just take the 1.05 & 1.18 for the 1.02.  Hopefully they could also get at least a 2nd or 3rd added too, but that wouldn't hold up the trade for me.  I think if they can come away with Simmons or Okudah at 1.05, they're still getting an elite player that can contribute immediately in a huge position of need. 

1.05 - Simmons or Okudah - If these guys are gone, they could go with their choice of LT or possibly try to trade down a little bit

1.18 - OT (who's left of Wills, Wirfs, Becton, Thomas), MLB (Queen, Murray), or CB (Diggs, Henderson).  Could also trade down in the 20's and hope to land one of these guys

I think the combo of 2 of these guys helps the team more than Chase Young and not picking again until the 3rd round.  I also don't think there's a much of a drop off between Young, Simmons, and Okudah, if at all, and  believe that Sweat will be better this year with his hand back in the dirt.

Not that they should do it, but if they drafted Simmons & Queen/Murray, they'd have a studly, fast LB group behind that big D-Line!  Cole Holcomb is a high motor guy but I feel like we have no 4-3 LBs right now.  It's tough to count on anything from Rueben Foster, unfortunately, and I think Kerrigan's lack of speed will will be even more evident with 3 LBs.

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Well we can still hold out hope that MAYBE we get a 2nd for Trent. That would really help our draft. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Guinis72 said:

If I were the Redskins, I'd be willing to just take the 1.05 & 1.18 for the 1.02. 

If that was on the table they would have already taken it.  I think MIA (and LAC) don't see the need to move up to #2.  They can move up to 3 or 4 and still get a QB.  They may even be able to stay put.  Neither may even want Tua or Hebert for all we know.  So WAS is more likely to get #3 or 4 trade value in return as far as the trade value chart goes. Maybe someone would move up for Chase Young?

I think they'd be lucky to get 5 and 26 back from MIA.  And if so they should take it.   That gets them Simmons or Okudah, plus a guy like Austin Jackson, Kristian Fulton, Trevon Diggs, Tee Higins, Justin Jefferson, etc.

I guess I'd rather have any of these combos than Chase Young

Simmons + Diggs

Simmon or Okudah + Austin Jackson 

Simmon or Okudah + Tee Higgins

Simmon or Okudah +Justin Jefferson

Edited by Brunell4MVP

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9 hours ago, Brunell4MVP said:

If that was on the table they would have already taken it.  I think MIA (and LAC) don't see the need to move up to #2.  They can move up to 3 or 4 and still get a QB.  They may even be able to stay put.  Neither may even want Tua or Hebert for all we know.  So WAS is more likely to get #3 or 4 trade value in return as far as the trade value chart goes. Maybe someone would move up for Chase Young?

I think they'd be lucky to get 5 and 26 back from MIA.  And if so they should take it.   That gets them Simmons or Okudah, plus a guy like Austin Jackson, Kristian Fulton, Trevon Diggs, Tee Higins, Justin Jefferson, etc.

I guess I'd rather have any of these combos than Chase Young

Simmons + Diggs

Simmon or Okudah + Austin Jackson 

Simmon or Okudah + Tee Higgins

Simmon or Okudah +Justin Jefferson

I agree on Trent, it may be more of a situation where you get a 2nd and have to give up a day 3 pick. Maybe a conditional day 3 pick. It would be much more preferable to give up a 2021 day 3 pick because hopefully you'd be drafting later in each round next year than this year.

MIA and LAC seem fairly content where they are drafting but imo the big wild cards are CAR and JAX. If they want a QB they absolutely will have to move to get one, and in turn that may light a fire under MIA and LAC if they see either CAR or JAX move up. SO I STILL HAVE HOPE!

I also like your all your combos except the WR's in the last two. IMO as long as they keep pick #66 there will be a very talented probable starting WR sitting there. I've seen the likes of Hamler, Peoples-Jones, Bryan Edwards mocked in that general area. Even at pick #108 I've seen Pittman, Van Jefferson, Collin Johnson... it just feels like the talent at WR in the 3rd/4th round goes on and on. Honestly, any of those guys probably starts across from McLaurin by the end of the season(although I still like Harmon and hope he makes the team). 

In my mind I think they should ideally put themselves in a position to draft WR back to back in the 3rd/4th but I'm afraid Rivera is going to reach for a RB.  That's why a GOOD trade down of pick #2 would be ideal. Rivera has seemed to value RB almost as much as he does LB and I don't really see a RB you can really count on in the backfield for the team right now. They have contingency plans and depth but that's about all. I guess if an Akers or Edwards-Helaire were to fall to pick #108 that wouldn't be too bad. Neither guy is projected to be there but RB's have a tendency to fall mysteriously in the draft. If neither guy was available I'd go dumpster diving at the end or after the draft. Keep in mind that Hyde, Freeman, and Lamar Miller are all FA's that would probably take pretty small contracts at this point. Freeman probably being the cheapest because there are no medical evaluations at this point. The Redskins don't need to reach for RB in this draft, I'm just afraid they will. 

They also need at least one more CB but Logan Ryan, Dennard, and Apple have all had a difficult time finding a home and the price tag is likely pretty low at this point. If they can't find a trade partner they should sign a couple of those guys on prove-it deals rather than go into the draft needing to fill CB.

Eric Reid, Tedric Thompson, Tavon Wilson, and Geathers are also floating around the FA market as well and will have to settle for a very low contract at this point. In a relatively weak S draft it would be wise to sign at least one of those guys for depth on the back end now that they have struck out on getting any sizable deal.

Barron and Ogletree are out there and would probably demand very little money. Barron in particular would probably fit a Rivera defense pretty well. Either one would be cheap insurance against injury or getting shut out on LB in the draft. 

This is when the SMART money is spent in FA where you fill holes going into the draft so you can just draft best player available in the draft. This year that is more likely to be WR than any other position in those middle rounds. The biggest problem is they need to fill OT to replace Williams and the best way to fill that is to move down from #2. Otherwise they are left with reclamation projects like Robinson, Peters, Beachum, or Erving.

JUST DRAFT GOOD PLAYERS. IF QB/WR/WR are the best three players with your top three picks don't go into the draft feeling like you HAVE TO fill CB's/LB's/RB's/S's etc. There are a lot of cheap FA's without a home right now at those positions that may just be a band-aid but that's all you need right now.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/10/2020 at 10:13 AM, Guinis72 said:

If I were the Redskins, I'd be willing to just take the 1.05 & 1.18 for the 1.02.  Hopefully they could also get at least a 2nd or 3rd added too, but that wouldn't hold up the trade for me.  I think if they can come away with Simmons or Okudah at 1.05, they're still getting an elite player that can contribute immediately in a huge position of need. 

1.05 - Simmons or Okudah - If these guys are gone, they could go with their choice of LT or possibly try to trade down a little bit

1.18 - OT (who's left of Wills, Wirfs, Becton, Thomas), MLB (Queen, Murray), or CB (Diggs, Henderson).  Could also trade down in the 20's and hope to land one of these guys

I think the combo of 2 of these guys helps the team more than Chase Young and not picking again until the 3rd round.  I also don't think there's a much of a drop off between Young, Simmons, and Okudah, if at all, and  believe that Sweat will be better this year with his hand back in the dirt.

Not that they should do it, but if they drafted Simmons & Queen/Murray, they'd have a studly, fast LB group behind that big D-Line!  Cole Holcomb is a high motor guy but I feel like we have no 4-3 LBs right now.  It's tough to count on anything from Rueben Foster, unfortunately, and I think Kerrigan's lack of speed will will be even more evident with 3 LBs.

No we're getting Chase Young. Are other weaknesses can be filled with a trade down in the third round.  Also Trent might yield a third rounder 

 

https://imgur.com/QpTsCE3

Edited by NorrisB

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1 minute ago, NorrisB said:

No we're getting Chase Young. Are other weaknesses can be filled with a trade down in the third round.  Also Trent might yield a third rounder 

 

BnDRRzg.png

We probably will, but that doesn't mean that's what's best for the team.  :)   You can still get a good LB in the 3rd+ but I think it'll be tough to find a quality LT or CB if you wait that long.   At LT, you end up getting another guy like Geron Christian, who's a project.  I do think it's possible to find a CB, as we did with Fuller, but I think it's more likely you're getting a guy like Moreau.  Either way, by picking Young, I think you'd come out of the draft addressing something that's already a team strength and other guys that may or may not contribute.

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50 minutes ago, Guinis72 said:

We probably will, but that doesn't mean that's what's best for the team.  :)   You can still get a good LB in the 3rd+ but I think it'll be tough to find a quality LT or CB if you wait that long.   At LT, you end up getting another guy like Geron Christian, who's a project.  I do think it's possible to find a CB, as we did with Fuller, but I think it's more likely you're getting a guy like Moreau.  Either way, by picking Young, I think you'd come out of the draft addressing something that's already a team strength and other guys that may or may not contribute.

No we'll get one of Prince Tega, Lucas Niang or Saahdiq Charles in the 3rd which isn't bad.

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We all have our opinions.  None of them are wrong.  The fact is WAS is going to get a good player, whether it be at #2 or later in the draft.

 

1. Chase Young is the easy selection, and he is the likely selection.  He is a good choice.  The Skins get somewhat overloaded on the DL, but they can mess with that to make it work.  Whether it be Kerrigan gone next year or trading another player.  Fact is, Young adds a motor that this team needs and he makes the DL even better.  I kind of feel bad for Tim Settle. I think he'd be a starter on many teams.  Barring injury he may not see the field much this year and on a cheap contract he's not going anywhere.

2. Tua is a reasonable choice also, albeit one that many fans (and Dan) don't want to see.  The odds they pick Tua are slim.  They have 2 viable young QBs, one of which knows the playbook and the other that we haven't seen enough of to know how good he is.  I would not fault them for drafting Tua even if they kept Haskins.  Tua is ultra accurate and he carries himself like a leader.  This really is one of those that if you pass on Tua and he becomes Drew Brees, ugh, it's a major regret.  It's so hard to find a franchise QB.  But it's probably best for the team to not draft a QB and see what they have. 

3. Trading down - I think you have to stay in the top 10 though.  There are several players that would really help the team - Okudah, Simmons, Jeudy, even an OT like Andrew Thomas if Trent is gone.  The problem here is you have to have two to tango.  Some of these fictitious trades people throw out are so off.  When I hear some radio dolt say MIA will give up 5, 18, and a 1st next year - what are they, insane?  MIA isn't doing that.  And I'm not getting the sense that anyone feels the need to move up to #2.  But I do believe getting say 9, 20, and 42 from JAX is something to look at.  You could get Jeudy,, a starting LT, and a starting TE/CB for that.  Man, a great WR does so much for this team.  Suddenly you have Haskins throwing to McLaurin, Jeudy, Harmon and Quinn.  Without Jeudy that looks WAY worse.  Plus handing off to Guice and Peterson.  Maybe throw in a Thaddeus Moss at TE.  Suddenly the offense doesn't look as terrible, all from one more WR.

The other carrot is Trent.  I'd stand by my guns and try to get a player or a 2nd rounder for him.  He's worth a 3rd round comp pick if you let him become a FA.  So no reason to trade him for 3rd rounder IMO.  Somebody will want him under the right salary demands.  TB, CLE, ARI, NYJ, among others. 

 

 

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As of today, I'd be surprised if the #Lions make a selection with the 3rd overall pick. All three QBs (Tua, Herbert, and Love) are genuinely in play for different teams trading up. Strong offers coming to Detroit. May be esp. tempting if they value Henderson similarly to Okudah

Lions trade offer buzz

I see articles like this and think that I hope they'd at least offer the Redskins the same deal first?  Probably more likely to be misinformation put out there by the Lions to make some team show their cards as the draft approaches.  :)

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14 minutes ago, Guinis72 said:

I see articles like this and think that I hope they'd at least offer the Redskins the same deal first?  Probably more likely to be misinformation put out there by the Lions to make some team show their cards as the draft approaches.  :)

Even if the draft picks traded were the same, they have to pay about $1M more in salary at #2 rather than #3.   I doubt $1M matters much, just pointing it out.

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16 hours ago, Guinis72 said:

I see articles like this and think that I hope they'd at least offer the Redskins the same deal first?  Probably more likely to be misinformation put out there by the Lions to make some team show their cards as the draft approaches.  :)

I completely agree with this. A large part will likely depend on WHEN a trade with DET would happen. Once a trade was made(hopefully before the draft) then someone may be willing to pay even more to leap frog whoever just traded with DET to ensure they get their target. 

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17 hours ago, NorrisB said:

No we'll get one of Prince Tega, Lucas Niang or Saahdiq Charles in the 3rd which isn't bad.

I doubt Niang is still there in the 3rd round just based on size and "potential". Charles would be a hard pass by me at pick #66(maybe if they acquired a late 3rd.... but even then the discipline/size/system question marks might have me spooked). I think the trouble with both of these guys is technique wise they aren't ready to start from Day #1 and would be probably be best backing up a vet for the first year or two. Tega Wanogho probably fits the typical Rivera offense the best and would likely be ready to start the earliest in that group(imo) but again it's not nearly a sure thing that he'll be there at pick #66. 

The bigger problem is they would be passing on a WR with a clear round #2 grade WR that would be a starter to draft a boom/bust project at OT.

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18 hours ago, NorrisB said:

No we're getting Chase Young. Are other weaknesses can be filled with a trade down in the third round.  Also Trent might yield a third rounder 

If Chase Young really is a "can't miss" prospect I think WAS should be more aggressive dealing with the teams directly behind them in the draft that are holding onto their jobs by their fingernails.

- DET - I've seen multiple sources that have said Patricia would RUN to the podium(I guess with VR goggles now) to draft Chase if he fell to pick #3. He's a defensive guy and Young could be an instant play maker to help him save his job.The situation he's in I don't really understand all the "team building" projections where he trades down for more developmental players. He needs a turn around quick or he won't reap the rewards of a young/cheap nucleus anyway. Taylor Decker is a solid player but he's entering the final year of his contract before a big payday so I can imagine DET being interested in a package like this.......

WAS gives up #2 + Trent Williams, DET gives up #3 + #67 + Taylor Decker

DET wins this deal on the draft pick side of things according to the trade chart, and Williams probably grades out better than Decker for the one year window Patricia tries to save his job. WAS gets Decker(26yo) at OT actually willing to play for them at least for a year before making the decision whether or not to pay him. Seems like it makes sense for both teams to me for two franchises in completely different situations.

 

- NYG - Gettleman is also on the hot-seat imo and without a bold move he could very easily be out of a job. He recently has said that he won't overpay for edge rushers(which many believe is a message to Leonard Williams that he shouldn't expect a long term extension) so getting a potential premier pass rusher on a rookie deal should be attractive. Most people are saying that the NYG are in the market for an OT so why not make this easy for them. Leonoard Williams will be making $16+Mil on the franchise tag so they could

WAS gives up #2 + Trent Williams, NYG gives up #4 + #36 + Leonard Williams

This way Gettleman gets his cheap pass rusher, gets the OT that he desperately needs that is ready from day #1 to help protect his job, and clears the Leonard Williams headache off his hands. According to the draft pick value chart the NYG still come out ahead. From WAS side they are still in play for a possible Isaiah Simmons pick but more importantly that pick #36 would be like mana from heaven for a franchise that can take the time for a complete rebuild. They don't get Young but Leonard Williams(25yo) would be a nice one year addition to an already strong DL... oh, and he's willing to actually get on the field and play unlike Trent.

 

Maybe the biggest benefit in both these cases is the Redskins move down but still hold a "QB card" that could be flipped for more picks whether they slide back to #3 or #4. I would continue to flip the pick but if Simmons really is a Rivera guy there's definitely a very good chance that he's still on the board in either of those situations. They may be getting one year rentals in these two trades(Decker or L.Williams) but they are young players that might be worth extending if they play like pro-bowlers. WAS has the benefit of time on their sides of the trades where both DET and NYG should be desperate to WIN NOW just to save their jobs.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, BoltBacker said:

I completely agree with this. A large part will likely depend on WHEN a trade with DET would happen. Once a trade was made(hopefully before the draft) then someone may be willing to pay even more to leap frog whoever just traded with DET to ensure they get their target. 

As a WAS fan, I'd love DET to do announce a trade pre-draft.  But even DET can't be so dumb.  Nor the team they trade with.  The value of the #2 pick would skyrocket and they'd get leapfrogged at #3. 

Other than the WAS pick at #2, there shouldn't be any trades of picks until draft day.  And I think that trade would be to get Chase Young, not a QB.

Funny thing is, with all these guys on their DL, the edge pass rush is terrible.  It is still listed as WAS #1 need on many websites.  Most of the pressure was from inside.  Kerrigan routinely runs up the field and out of the play.  Sweat hasn't proven himself.  They actually do need better outside pressure that Young offers

Edited by Brunell4MVP

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Posted (edited)

So there are rumors about a Vikings-Browns trade involving Beckham. I see a great 3 way team trade. Let us send Trent to the Vikings (they need a LT) and we get Beckham and the Browns get the 2nd/5th round pick they are rumored to be asking of the Vikings for Beckham. And if we had to add a later pick to the Vikings so be it. :)

Edited by ffmail4me

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9 minutes ago, Brunell4MVP said:

They actually do need better outside pressure that Young offers

But every team needs pass rushers. WAS has poured resources into acquiring those pass rushers just as you have mentioned. 

The problem with WAS is they needs about 10 things, most of them starters. They need an outside corner that can cover a #1 WR. They need an LT that wants to play for the team and is starting caliber. They need a deep FS that can cover up all the things Landon Collins can't do(most of them DB related), they need a TE not named Jeremy Sprinkle, they need a WR(maybe 2..... 3?) other than McLaurin, they need a starting OG to play across from Sherff, they need a RB below the age of 50yo that they can actually count on, they need a starting MLB(perhaps the most important spot on a Rivera defense) under the age of 37.

But yeah, they do need better outside pressure. My problem with WAS is if they take a pro-bowl pass rushing DE.... they will still start the season with at least half a dozen holes on their roster that will completely undo them. And all this while they just take a pass on the most talented player in the entire draft when he's eventually 100% healthy.

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17 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

So there are rumors about a Vikings-Browns trade involving Beckham. I see a great 3 way team trade. Let us send Trent to the Vikings (they need a LT) and we get Beckham and the Browns get the 2nd/5th round pick they are rumored to be asking of the Vikings for Beckham. And if we had to add a later pick to the Vikings so be it. :)

Vikings wouldn't be able to pay Williams. I don't think they can pay Beckham.

In fact, I think if WAS does slide down the draft in the 3rd round they should look to acquire a salary purge like Rudolph at TE. It would help Haskins and the entire offense a great deal.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, BoltBacker said:

But every team needs pass rushers. WAS has poured resources into acquiring those pass rushers just as you have mentioned. 

The problem with WAS is they needs about 10 things, most of them starters. They need an outside corner that can cover a #1 WR. They need an LT that wants to play for the team and is starting caliber. They need a deep FS that can cover up all the things Landon Collins can't do(most of them DB related), they need a TE not named Jeremy Sprinkle, they need a WR(maybe 2..... 3?) other than McLaurin, they need a starting OG to play across from Sherff, they need a RB below the age of 50yo that they can actually count on, they need a starting MLB(perhaps the most important spot on a Rivera defense) under the age of 37.

But yeah, they do need better outside pressure. My problem with WAS is if they take a pro-bowl pass rushing DE.... they will still start the season with at least half a dozen holes on their roster that will completely undo them. And all this while they just take a pass on the most talented player in the entire draft when he's eventually 100% healthy.

Oh I'm with you 100%.  Just a better DC and HC are gonna make the defense loads better.  Manusky was terrible.

If they could get say 5 and 26 plus another pick.  Or 9 and 20 plus another pick.  100% they should do it IMO.  I would always want more picks in rounds 1-4.  I actually think a WR plus an OT adds more value to this team that anything else (since there are no great TE options in the draft).  It gives Haskins another weapon.  It keeps McLaurin from getting doubled.  It gives Haskins blind side protection.  At 9/20 they could easily go Jedrick Wills/Justin Jefferson or Jeudy/Austin Jackson.  Immediately their offense isn't so awful.  Scott Turner likes to take shots down the field.  A lot of shots.  He needs one more WR to make that happen.

BUT, if they are stuck at #2 Chase Young is still a solid pick.  I guess that's my only point.

 

Edited by Brunell4MVP
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This is a bit of unfortunate news for Zack Baun but if it causes him to fall a round(Maybe to pick #66?) in the draft he seems like a perfect consolation prize if WAS is unable to move around for Isaiah Simmons. It might be wishful thinking if WAS can't trade back and acquire a pick earlier than #66....

"ZACK BAUN LB, COLLEGE PLAYER

Wisconsin LB Zack Baun's Combine drug test returned a "diluted sample."

That is the same as a failure in the NFL's eyes. Baun claims it was the result of overhydrating ahead of his weigh-in. As ESPN's Adam Schefter notes, this will not count as a strike against Baun under the league's new CBA. An off-ball linebacker who is still successful at getting after the passer, Baun has been considered a Day 1 pick, though he is ancient (24 in December) for a first-year pro.    

SOURCE: Adam Schefter on Twitter

Apr 14, 2020, 2:15 PM ET"

Nice video by PFF on Baun..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAcKv9Hiru0

 

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