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Evilgrin 72

Vontaze Burfict - nobody wins

Vontaze Burfict's kamikaze routine...  

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Sad to see... Such a great talent. The guy's a danger to those around him and the NFL has to do something about it.

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I find EG's vilification of Burfict odd. His on the field actions are questionable at best, but they're still on the field actions. Isn't it much harder to root for Ben or ADP or Hardy knowing what we know? Those are real life malicious actions.

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I find EG's vilification of Burfict odd. His on the field actions are questionable at best, but they're still on the field actions. Isn't it much harder to root for Ben or ADP or Hardy knowing what we know? Those are real life malicious actions.

Off-field incidents don't affect on-field games/performances. If I want to see a good football game, I just want to see the most skilled players out there in the game. Whether a player kicks his dog or has 400 arrests or hasn't showered in 4 years doesn't have a substantial impact on his on-field performance, which is the primary focus of our attention as fans. I would rather know nothing about players' personal lives, because unless it bleeds over into their performance and negatively affects the games, it's fundamentally irrelevant to us as sports fans.

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I find EG's vilification of Burfict odd. His on the field actions are questionable at best, but they're still on the field actions. Isn't it much harder to root for Ben or ADP or Hardy knowing what we know? Those are real life malicious actions.

Off-field incidents don't affect on-field games/performances. If I want to see a good football game, I just want to see the most skilled players out there in the game. Whether a player kicks his dog or has 400 arrests or hasn't showered in 4 years doesn't have a substantial impact on his on-field performance, which is the primary focus of our attention as fans. I would rather know nothing about players' personal lives, because unless it bleeds over into their performance and negatively affects the games, it's fundamentally irrelevant to us as sports fans.

This. They're not my friends, I just want to see good football.

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Burfict should be suspended for a whole season.

Not buying this "the Steelers have no shot against the Broncos" malarkey.

I'm a homer, but I'm also a realist. Roethlisberger, if he can even play, is going to be a shadow of himself. I have no idea what is going to happen with Antonio. Williams is going to be out again. Rolling out a "JV" offense against the league's #1 defense on the road is not likely to end well.

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excuses excuses excuses

Take three first team All-NFL players (and quite possibly a HOF-bound QB as well) off any team's offense and what do you think the result will be? I know, I know - next man up ! Right.

Den 24

Pitts 7

:towelwave:

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NFL Fans - At the beginning of the year, the thought of seeing Roethlisberger, Bell, and Antonio rolling into Denver on fire to face the Broncos' vaunted defense and Peyton Manning was a delicious proposition to fans of exciting football. Now, we're either going to have Landry Jones or a Ben Roethlisberger with a separated shoulder chucking it to the likes of Darrius Heyward-Bey and Fitz Toussaint. NFL fans in general are big losers here.

I have already lost by having to watch this team for a second week in a row. They shouldn't have even made the playoffs.

I guess your team should have taken care of business in week 17. But alas - they also do not belong in the playoffs.

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Burfict should be suspended for a whole season.

Not buying this "the Steelers have no shot against the Broncos" malarkey.

I'm a homer, but I'm also a realist. Roethlisberger, if he can even play, is going to be a shadow of himself. I have no idea what is going to happen with Antonio. Williams is going to be out again. Rolling out a "JV" offense against the league's #1 defense on the road is not likely to end well.

I get what you are saying, but Peyton Manning is pretty much done, so God only knows what will happen with the Broncos offense. He still has his moments, but there is no way of knowing when they will happen, if at all.

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Burfict should be suspended for a whole season.

Not buying this "the Steelers have no shot against the Broncos" malarkey.

without brown and a banged up roeth they don't. denver wins by double digits.

Yeah I doubt that. Denver had a total of 3 double digit wins this year. I don't think their offense is good enough to win by double digits.

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Burfict should be suspended for a whole season.

Not buying this "the Steelers have no shot against the Broncos" malarkey.

I'm a homer, but I'm also a realist. Roethlisberger, if he can even play, is going to be a shadow of himself. I have no idea what is going to happen with Antonio. Williams is going to be out again. Rolling out a "JV" offense against the league's #1 defense on the road is not likely to end well.

I get what you are saying, but Peyton Manning is pretty much done, so God only knows what will happen with the Broncos offense. He still has his moments, but there is no way of knowing when they will happen, if at all.

Exactly. I don't care how bad the Steelers offense is. They were pretty bad for most of the game against Cincy as well and still had a 15-0 lead for 3 quarters. The reason being that Cincy's offense was completely inept. I would not be surprised if Denver's offense looks just as inept. We're probably looking at a 20-17 type game here.

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Pitt has to hope bad Manning shows up and their Defense continues to play above their heads.

Otherwise, no chance with all the skill position injuries on offense. And do they have anyone who can cover DT?

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Pitt has to hope bad Manning shows up and their Defense continues to play above their heads.

Otherwise, no chance with all the skill position injuries on offense. And do they have anyone who can cover DT?

I'm banking on bad Manning to show up. I don't think it's a stretch to think that Manning is not the QB he was even 2 years ago. No the Steelers don't have anyone who can cover DT (few teams do). However, someone has to be able to get the ball to DT. As bad as the Steelers D has been this year, they have done a good job of getting pressure on QBs. They may actually match up well against an immobile QB like Manning.

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Burfict should be suspended for a whole season.

Not buying this "the Steelers have no shot against the Broncos" malarkey.

I'm a homer, but I'm also a realist. Roethlisberger, if he can even play, is going to be a shadow of himself. I have no idea what is going to happen with Antonio. Williams is going to be out again. Rolling out a "JV" offense against the league's #1 defense on the road is not likely to end well.

I get what you are saying, but Peyton Manning is pretty much done, so God only knows what will happen with the Broncos offense. He still has his moments, but there is no way of knowing when they will happen, if at all.

Peyton is certainly the x factor. With a full strength Ben and AB (or at least at what passes for full strength this time of year) and DeAngelo, I'd call this a pick 'em, even in Denver. As is.. Yikes. I think the Broncos win by double digits easily.

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Pitt has to hope bad Manning shows up and their Defense continues to play above their heads.

Otherwise, no chance with all the skill position injuries on offense. And do they have anyone who can cover DT?

No. Nor Emmanuel Sanders. Luckily, Vernon Davis about covers himself.

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Even as a Steelers fan, I think the only dirty play that injured a Steeler was the head shot on AB. I don't have a problem with the way he tackled Bell early in the year and the sack of Big Ben was clean except for the little extra dig Burfict gave him as he tried to rip out the ball/noogie Ben in the mid-section. Indeed, only the AB hit drew a flag. Since that one really hurt his team, I'd vote that the Bengals were hurt the most by his indiscretions.

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NFL Fans - At the beginning of the year, the thought of seeing Roethlisberger, Bell, and Antonio rolling into Denver on fire to face the Broncos' vaunted defense and Peyton Manning was a delicious proposition to fans of exciting football. Now, we're either going to have Landry Jones or a Ben Roethlisberger with a separated shoulder chucking it to the likes of Darrius Heyward-Bey and Fitz Toussaint. NFL fans in general are big losers here.

I have already lost by having to watch this team for a second week in a row. They shouldn't have even made the playoffs.

I guess your team should have taken care of business in week 17. But alas - they also do not belong in the playoffs.

Yes, they don't but neither do the Steelers. I don't even like Wild Card teams to begin with.

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I find EG's vilification of Burfict odd. His on the field actions are questionable at best, but they're still on the field actions. Isn't it much harder to root for Ben or ADP or Hardy knowing what we know? Those are real life malicious actions.

There's a reason ben was not prosecuted in the two gray area incidents youre alluding to. Hes not obsolved of guilt and or poor judgement but in terms of real life scumbag meter its

Hardy>>>>>>>adp>>ben.

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For anyone who didn't vote his family, consider this..

If his suspension is upheld, he will lose 3 game checks of his base salary of 2.85M. At 178K a pop that equals 534K or nearly 20% of his income for 2016. Factoring in risk of injury, boneheadedness, avg career span, that is an even larger chunk of money for him and his family to go without.

This is a valid point. One that should be pointed out to Burfict the next time he laces them up, before the head-hunting, ankle-twisting, spearing and other assorted bad decisions begin. Choice is his.
His family will be just fine, he'll still be able to pay bills and put food on the table.

Yep, one would think. Still have to consider that he may not be smart enough to save. But again, choice is his.

$534K is a whole lotta food.. Not that his family would be in squalor, but losing out on that kind of money will be impactful.

Yeah, how will they scrape by on the other 2.3 mill?

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The big winners are neutral fans who enjoyed seeing all the emotion, conflict great plays and crazy great ending on Saturday night. The big losers are folks who have followed or actively participated in one of the several ongoing inane threads about the events in that game.

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I find EG's vilification of Burfict odd. His on the field actions are questionable at best, but they're still on the field actions. Isn't it much harder to root for Ben or ADP or Hardy knowing what we know? Those are real life malicious actions.

There's a reason ben was not prosecuted in the two gray area incidents youre alluding to. Hes not obsolved of guilt and or poor judgement but in terms of real life scumbag meter its

Hardy>>>>>>>adp>>ben.

If the legal system is your gauge of such things, remember that Hardy's case was dismissed upon appeal. Only, ADP of the three was convicted.

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I find EG's vilification of Burfict odd. His on the field actions are questionable at best, but they're still on the field actions. Isn't it much harder to root for Ben or ADP or Hardy knowing what we know? Those are real life malicious actions.

There's a reason ben was not prosecuted in the two gray area incidents youre alluding to. Hes not obsolved of guilt and or poor judgement but in terms of real life scumbag meter its

Hardy>>>>>>>adp>>ben.

If the legal system is your gauge of such things, remember that Hardy's case was dismissed upon appeal. Only, ADP of the three was convicted.

Ben was suspended from the league for providing under-age girls with drinks. Since that time all records and public reports say he has turned his life around. Hardy was suspended for a whole lot worse, and all evidence points to him learning and changing very little.

Edited by PhD

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Ben is playing against Denver. Brown will be playing too. And, the Steelers are going to win.

I would bet money that all that will happen.

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Ben is playing against Denver. Brown will be playing too. And, the Steelers are going to win.

I would bet money that all that will happen.

If only there was a way to accomplish this......

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All you girls need to report to Principal Conrad Dobler's office.

Ah yeah, Conrad Dobler... he was a dirty rotten pr### too.

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I find EG's vilification of Burfict odd. His on the field actions are questionable at best, but they're still on the field actions. Isn't it much harder to root for Ben or ADP or Hardy knowing what we know? Those are real life malicious actions.

There's a reason ben was not prosecuted in the two gray area incidents youre alluding to. Hes not obsolved of guilt and or poor judgement but in terms of real life scumbag meter its

Hardy>>>>>>>adp>>ben.

If the legal system is your gauge of such things, remember that Hardy's case was dismissed upon appeal. Only, ADP of the three was convicted.

The gauge is the laugh test. Hardy nearly killed a woman. Adp made a 4 year olds sac bleed. Ben had sex with 2 women, one alleged assault and quickly settled and one alleged assaullt and it was thrown out of court.

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The loss of Brown is huge, we all know that, but let's not act like the Steelers are bereft of pass catchers elsewhere. Martavis Bryant, Marcus Wheaton and Heath Miller are all legit pass catching weapons. Not having Brown to free them up more is obviously a major factor, but acting like DHB will be their best weapon out there is overstating their plight a bit, I think.

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I watched all 5+ minutes of Lawrence Taylor's greatest hits and one thing struck me. He never used his helmet as a weapon. Every tackle was arms and shoulders first. He may have hurt some people but he was not a head hunter. Burfict is deliberately trying to injure other players. And he isn't the only one doing so. Somewhere along the way the culture of playing defense has changed and it is hurting the game. It is a shame that some of the last eight teams playing for the Championship are doing it with their survivors rather than all their stars.

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Neofight, on 12 Jan 2016 - 12:47 PM, said:

Da Guru, on 12 Jan 2016 - 12:45 PM, said:

Evilgrin 72, on 12 Jan 2016 - 12:35 PM, said:

Evilgrin 72, on 12 Jan 2016 - 12:35 PM, said:

Da Guru, on 12 Jan 2016 - 12:29 PM, said:

Da Guru, on 12 Jan 2016 - 12:29 PM, said:

#5. Does not affect anyone....I like watching guys like Bufict, Suh, James Harrison play.

Sure, but you're not going to watch Burfict play anymore this year. Or the first three games of next year. You enjoy watching the Landry Jones to Darrius Heyward-Bey high wire act? You didn't want to see these teams both healthy and battling it out next Sunday? It might have been an all-time classic. Now we get.......well..........this.

In reality even Tomlin said at game speed it is tough to pull back on a hit in progress. Has the ball been caught and Burfict has to assume it will be the hit would have been square in the chest area. The defender has 1/8 of a second to continue or pull back. It is almost impossible. The problem with replay is that they show it in slow motion or frame by frame. Of course it looks much worse than at regular speed.

Burfict plays balls out and like Suh is a target. When Bell was injured this year that was on a legal hit yet all the Steelers were complaining and that puts a bigger target on the back.

Dude had plenty of time to see that the ball sailed by Brown and pull up. He chose not to.

I do not care if he is suspended or not but you don`t choose in a split second.

I dunno....Don't these world class athletes tend to be so good that they sort of see things in slow motion, ala The Matrix? Their ability to see, recognize, and react is partly what makes them able to play at that elite level. Burfict should have been able to see the ball as sailed past and immediately let up on his trajectory. I don't buy that he can't stop himself or that he's unaware of the ball position. Edited by pghrob

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The loss of Brown is huge, we all know that, but let's not act like the Steelers are bereft of pass catchers elsewhere. Martavis Bryant, Marcus Wheaton and Heath Miller are all legit pass catching weapons. Not having Brown to free them up more is obviously a major factor, but acting like DHB will be their best weapon out there is overstating their plight a bit, I think.

Yeah, taking away perhaps the best WR in football isnt that big of a deal. Especially after losing arguably the best RB weapon in football and his backup who was performing at a pro bowl level.

If Demaryius was out and the Steelers could double Sanders, it wouldn't be that big of a deal for the Broncos, would it?

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The loss of Brown is huge, we all know that, but let's not act like the Steelers are bereft of pass catchers elsewhere. Martavis Bryant, Marcus Wheaton and Heath Miller are all legit pass catching weapons. Not having Brown to free them up more is obviously a major factor, but acting like DHB will be their best weapon out there is overstating their plight a bit, I think.

Yeah, taking away perhaps the best WR in football isnt that big of a deal. Especially after losing arguably the best RB weapon in football and his backup who was performing at a pro bowl level.

If Demaryius was out and the Steelers could double Sanders, it wouldn't be that big of a deal for the Broncos, would it?

Every team deals with injuries. It's time to stop crying about it.

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The loss of Brown is huge, we all know that, but let's not act like the Steelers are bereft of pass catchers elsewhere. Martavis Bryant, Marcus Wheaton and Heath Miller are all legit pass catching weapons. Not having Brown to free them up more is obviously a major factor, but acting like DHB will be their best weapon out there is overstating their plight a bit, I think.

Yeah, taking away perhaps the best WR in football isnt that big of a deal. Especially after losing arguably the best RB weapon in football and his backup who was performing at a pro bowl level.

If Demaryius was out and the Steelers could double Sanders, it wouldn't be that big of a deal for the Broncos, would it?

Is putting words in the mouthes of others something you do regularly?

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I watched all 5+ minutes of Lawrence Taylor's greatest hits and one thing struck me. He never used his helmet as a weapon. Every tackle was arms and shoulders first. He may have hurt some people but he was not a head hunter. Burfict is deliberately trying to injure other players. And he isn't the only one doing so. Somewhere along the way the culture of playing defense has changed and it is hurting the game. It is a shame that some of the last eight teams playing for the Championship are doing it with their survivors rather than all their stars.

Shazier was the one using his helmet as a weapon. Burfict led with his shoulder.

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The loss of Brown is huge, we all know that, but let's not act like the Steelers are bereft of pass catchers elsewhere. Martavis Bryant, Marcus Wheaton and Heath Miller are all legit pass catching weapons. Not having Brown to free them up more is obviously a major factor, but acting like DHB will be their best weapon out there is overstating their plight a bit, I think.

DHB is the one who will be replacing Brown for the most part. If they move Wheaton outside, Bey and/or Sammie Coates will take his place in the slot.

Much of the success of the Steelers offense is predicated on teams rolling coverage to Brown. His absence will have an exponentially greater effect than simply the downgrade from him to Wheaton or DHB. It's a domino effect. It's not as catastrophic as Ben being out or severely limited would be, but it's a bigger loss than Bell or DeAngelo Williams. Seeing as both of those guys are out in addition to Brown and the fact that no one knows what Ben can do even if he does play and it's a cumulative dismantling. They have no experience playing this short handed. They've never been without Brown and the attention he draws. It's not like Cincinnati having a month to play with AJ McCarron under center and get everyone on the same page. The Steelers have a LOT of guys acclimating to new roles on the fly. If Ben can't throw deep whenever he wants, they're going to have to adjust the offensive play calling on the fly as well.

I just have a really bad feeling that this isn't going to come together in a week. The fact that it's probably the best defense in football against which they have to accomplish this only exacerbates the problem.

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The loss of Brown is huge, we all know that, but let's not act like the Steelers are bereft of pass catchers elsewhere. Martavis Bryant, Marcus Wheaton and Heath Miller are all legit pass catching weapons. Not having Brown to free them up more is obviously a major factor, but acting like DHB will be their best weapon out there is overstating their plight a bit, I think.

Yeah, taking away perhaps the best WR in football isnt that big of a deal. Especially after losing arguably the best RB weapon in football and his backup who was performing at a pro bowl level.

If Demaryius was out and the Steelers could double Sanders, it wouldn't be that big of a deal for the Broncos, would it?

Is putting words in the mouthes of others something you do regularly?

Nope and I wasn't there either. For you to say the Steelers have other pass catchers that can get the job done sounds like it's minimizing the effect Brown's absense will have. It's not overstating their plight, as you say. It's as much of a blow as missing Ben would be because it hurts both the running game and weakens the Steelers at their top 3 WR spots.

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The loss of Brown is huge, we all know that, but let's not act like the Steelers are bereft of pass catchers elsewhere. Martavis Bryant, Marcus Wheaton and Heath Miller are all legit pass catching weapons. Not having Brown to free them up more is obviously a major factor, but acting like DHB will be their best weapon out there is overstating their plight a bit, I think.

Yeah, taking away perhaps the best WR in football isnt that big of a deal. Especially after losing arguably the best RB weapon in football and his backup who was performing at a pro bowl level.

If Demaryius was out and the Steelers could double Sanders, it wouldn't be that big of a deal for the Broncos, would it?

Every team deals with injuries. It's time to stop crying about it.

True.

However, not every team loses arguably the best RB and WR in football at the same time while their star QB deals with a shoulder injury. That's not crying about it, it's part of football. Just really bad timing except if you're a Broncos fan.

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Yes, all teams have to deal with injuries, but some injuries are too big to overcome to win 3 straight against 10+ win teams. I think Antonio Brown is one of those. Gronk was in 2011-2013. Even with the championship caliber players healthy, playoff games can go either way (hello Malcom Butler or David Tyree). Not having those guys is a huge handicap.

Title contending windows often are tied with a core group of players. The Steelers and their fans may have lost one year of their window thanks to Burfict.

Edited by pats3in4

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I watched all 5+ minutes of Lawrence Taylor's greatest hits and one thing struck me. He never used his helmet as a weapon. Every tackle was arms and shoulders first. He may have hurt some people but he was not a head hunter. Burfict is deliberately trying to injure other players. And he isn't the only one doing so. Somewhere along the way the culture of playing defense has changed and it is hurting the game. It is a shame that some of the last eight teams playing for the Championship are doing it with their survivors rather than all their stars.

Shazier was the one using his helmet as a weapon. Burfict led with his shoulder.

I didn't say he led with his head. but it makes no difference - he went for Brown's head. Don't even try to defend him. The guy has been fined SIX times this year for dirty play. .

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The loss of Brown is huge, we all know that, but let's not act like the Steelers are bereft of pass catchers elsewhere. Martavis Bryant, Marcus Wheaton and Heath Miller are all legit pass catching weapons. Not having Brown to free them up more is obviously a major factor, but acting like DHB will be their best weapon out there is overstating their plight a bit, I think.

Yeah, taking away perhaps the best WR in football isnt that big of a deal. Especially after losing arguably the best RB weapon in football and his backup who was performing at a pro bowl level.

If Demaryius was out and the Steelers could double Sanders, it wouldn't be that big of a deal for the Broncos, would it?

Is putting words in the mouthes of others something you do regularly?

Nope and I wasn't there either. For you to say the Steelers have other pass catchers that can get the job done sounds like it's minimizing the effect Brown's absense will have. It's not overstating their plight, as you say. It's as much of a blow as missing Ben would be because it hurts both the running game and weakens the Steelers at their top 3 WR spots.

I said the loss of Brown was huge. HUGE. Perhaps you missed that. Saying they have other legit pass catchers is simply pointing out that the cupboard is not totally bare.

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The loss of Brown is huge, we all know that, but let's not act like the Steelers are bereft of pass catchers elsewhere. Martavis Bryant, Marcus Wheaton and Heath Miller are all legit pass catching weapons. Not having Brown to free them up more is obviously a major factor, but acting like DHB will be their best weapon out there is overstating their plight a bit, I think.

Yeah, taking away perhaps the best WR in football isnt that big of a deal. Especially after losing arguably the best RB weapon in football and his backup who was performing at a pro bowl level.

If Demaryius was out and the Steelers could double Sanders, it wouldn't be that big of a deal for the Broncos, would it?

Is putting words in the mouthes of others something you do regularly?

Nope and I wasn't there either. For you to say the Steelers have other pass catchers that can get the job done sounds like it's minimizing the effect Brown's absense will have. It's not overstating their plight, as you say. It's as much of a blow as missing Ben would be because it hurts both the running game and weakens the Steelers at their top 3 WR spots.

I said the loss of Brown was huge. HUGE. Perhaps you missed that. Saying they have other legit pass catchers is simply pointing out that the cupboard is not totally bare.

I agree with you and it's why I've been saying all along that this is a winnable game for the Steelers. The AB injury is definitely huge but this game will come down to which Manning we see and whether or not Ben is healthy. If Manning plays great, Steelers weren't going to win with or without AB. If Ben can't throw the ball 20 yards, the Steelers also were not going to win with or without AB. I think the Steelers can get pressure on Manning so we'll see if he's up for the challenge. If Manning lays an egg, the Steelers offense should be able to do enough to win the game.

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I knew the Steelers would make a game of it, and for most of it, I thought they were going to win it. Props to the Steelers for a gutsy performance. :thumbup::thumbup:

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Eh, there is no way to know what happens if Brown is healthy and plays. The Broncos for much of today looked like a team who thought they could sleep walk through it and win because of Pittsburgh's injuries.

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Yeah nobody knows what would have happened if AB plays. While Denver was kicking FGs all game, the Steelers wasted opportunities to take control of the game. That game really could have went either way. 2 pretty evenly matched teams. That's why I wasn't buying all the "Denver winning in a blowout" talk before the game.

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I guess we found out that the title of the thread is incorrect.

Denver wins because of Burfict.

:clap:

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to the rest of the world pitt versus cincy is like a cheapshot artist turf war so when the pitt guys complain about barfict it is sort of like they are just mad that they did not get him on there team first so really pitt just put up a question about are you mad we did not use the theory of best dirtbag available or bda as some call it and passed upon barfict if you want real answers about where things sit take that to the bank bromigos

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