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JohnnyU

O. J Howard TE Alabama

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4 hours ago, Grahamburn said:

He's had multiple big plays like this in his career.  It's a shame the new offensive staff would rather feed the likes of Breshad Perriman, Scotty Miller, and BoBo Wilson than Howard.  I thought Arians was smart?  Same old crap.  He rolls out his ancient playbook for Leftwich to call for him and the TE is an afterthought.  Probably only going to get worse for Howard too, if that's possible, as the right tackle is going to need some help on the outside.

The biggest thing that I learned from this is.......you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

In this case, you can't teach a NFL coach to change his style to reflect his talent......unless your Bill Belicheck.  Fantasy success = talent + opportunity.  Howard has the talent but not the opportunity, and it doesn't look like that will change unless Arians is gone or Howard leaves TB.

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4 hours ago, Grahamburn said:

He's had multiple big plays like this in his career.  It's a shame the new offensive staff would rather feed the likes of Breshad Perriman, Scotty Miller, and BoBo Wilson than Howard.  I thought Arians was smart?  Same old crap.  He rolls out his ancient playbook for Leftwich to call for him and the TE is an afterthought.  Probably only going to get worse for Howard too, if that's possible, as the right tackle is going to need some help on the outside.

I admittedly slurp the Arians Kool-Aid and disagree gently with this post, but fully agree with your point about the insistence on trotting out WR3s with little to no talent while wasting O.J.

But deep passes need a little max protect. Check Howard's total routes run. That's how you'll know if it's on Howard or Arians, or both.

Edited by rockaction
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I've actually seen him dropped in a PPR dynasty league (wasn't me)...  👀

Edited by destro

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29 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I admittedly slurp the Arians Kool-Aid and disagree gently with this post, but fully agree with your point about the insistence on trotting out WR3s with little to no talent while wasting O.J.

But deep passes need a little max protect. Check Howard's total routes run. That's how you'll know if it's on Howard or Arians, or both.

This. 

Also Howard is a much better blocker than Brate, and they are both good receivers.  Howard is a better reciever than Brate, but the gap is much less than it is with blocking... That means OJ gets all the blocking assignments when a TE has to block. 

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In 2 separate dynasty leagues, both TE premium, I’ve been offered the option to bail in favor of G Everett and C Herndon.  It’s a tough decision as I’ve been a fan of Howard’s since he was drafted, but those other 2 seem more viable and with similar upside when factoring in usage and situation.  That’ll get me off this train in 2 of the 4 leagues I have OJ in

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The Tampa Bay Times has a helpful (and also depressing and unsurprising) breakdown of Howard's use this season. It includes the following:

Quote

 

The difference this season vs. last season is that he’s running fewer routes — and by a significant margin. Instead of using him primarily as a pass catcher, the Bucs are choosing to use him primarily as a blocker.

This season, Howard has lined up in a blocking role on more than half of his snaps, according to Pro Football Focus data. Last season, he lined up in a blocking role less than 40 percent of the time.

This season, he has lined up in the slot or out wide on 22 percent of his snaps. Last season, he lined up in the slot or out wide twice as often.

 

 

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The above is what I wanted to know. It's a systemic thing, not him. 

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9 hours ago, rockaction said:

The above is what I wanted to know. It's a systemic thing, not him. 

Yup. And to compound things Arians is quoted in that article and elsewhere suggesting that Howard is running plenty of routes and just not getting open, which this article demonstrates isn’t really the case (specifically in terms of opportunities  — if you buy into PFF grades Howard hasn’t been playing as well overall this year). So he may be legitimately struggling and (more important I think for ff) Arians seems uninterested in getting him more involved. 

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3 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

Arians/Leftwich obviously aren’t smart enough to figure out a way to use him. Might as well get something of value in return.

Lot of chatter in NE this morning around M. Bennett. His playing time has decreased week to week as the D has shifted to more of a 3-4 vs. a 4-3 which Bennett is a better fit.

I could see NE trading Bennett for WR/TE/O-line help.

Not a perfect fit for TB since they seem pretty strong on the D line right now, but  who knows.

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8 minutes ago, kyoun1e said:

Lot of chatter in NE this morning around M. Bennett. His playing time has decreased week to week as the D has shifted to more of a 3-4 vs. a 4-3 which Bennett is a better fit.

I could see NE trading Bennett for WR/TE/O-line help.

Not a perfect fit for TB since they seem pretty strong on the D line right now, but  who knows.

Tampa runs a 3-4 now and Bennett is 33 years old to O.J.'s 24.  I'd hope Jason Licht would be insulted by that offer.  I would be.  If NE wants to offer their likely late first round pick then I'd guess they could discuss it.

I was thinking Tampa could dangle OJ and a pick to Washington for the rights to Trent Williams plus a pick.

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2 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

Tampa runs a 3-4 now and Bennett is 33 years old to O.J.'s 24.  I'd hope Jason Licht would be insulted by that offer.  I would be.  If NE wants to offer their likely late first round pick then I'd guess they could discuss it.

I was thinking Tampa could dangle OJ and a pick to Washington for the rights to Trent Williams plus a pick.

This is a lot more like it than Bennett, who is twilighting right about now. 

Edited by rockaction

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I would love for TB to trade him but not sure why they would. I hope like crazy that the trade chatter becomes something real but it feels like sports reporters thinking in fantasy terms. 

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He has had a couple balls clang off his hands this game.  The hands are not that good.  I think Brate is just a better player right now.

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20 minutes ago, Nero said:

He has had a couple balls clang off his hands this game.  The hands are not that good.  I think Brate is just a better player right now.

One of them needs to get traded. 

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There are some rumors and speculation circulating about Howard being traded but it doesn't seem like anything beyond speculation (based largely it seems on Matt Miller from Bleacher Report's tweet over the weekend). The Pats are being brought up. I'd love to see something reliable (though I don't know much about Miller - maybe I'm not giving him enough credit). 

 

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11 minutes ago, DAG said:

There are some rumors and speculation circulating about Howard being traded but it doesn't seem like anything beyond speculation (based largely it seems on Matt Miller from Bleacher Report's tweet over the weekend). The Pats are being brought up. I'd love to see something reliable (though I don't know much about Miller - maybe I'm not giving him enough credit). 

 

Be careful what you wish for. What the Patriots are desperate for is a strong run blocking TE.

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18 minutes ago, davearm said:

Be careful what you wish for. What the Patriots are desperate for is a strong run blocking TE.

It quite literally can’t get any worse than it is right now.  The Patriots would be an immediate and immense fantasy upgrade for Howard.  

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1 hour ago, SayWhat? said:

It quite literally can’t get any worse than it is right now.  The Patriots would be an immediate and immense fantasy upgrade for Howard.  

Yes. I mean, I suppose Arians could start making Howard inactive. Or convert him to Center. Right now I'd take the small ray of hope that almost any other team would represent. Again, I don't see any credible rumors as far as I can tell, so this is all academic right now.

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28 minutes ago, DAG said:

Yes. I mean, I suppose Arians could start making Howard inactive. Or convert him to Center. Right now I'd take the small ray of hope that almost any other team would represent. Again, I don't see any credible rumors as far as I can tell, so this is all academic right now.

Redskins need a TE more than any team in the NFL. Reeds brain is Jello and Vernon Davis is 67 and so old dust comes out his #### when he farts...

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Quote

Tampa Bay Times' Rick Stroud reports the Bucs won't trade O.J. Howard.

Howard hasn't been utilized in the Bucs' passing game as often as most would like but that doesn't mean the Bucs are going to be trading away their young tight end. The Bucs have team control over his contract for two or three more seasons, so there's not a lot of incentive to dish him away at the moment. Howard will likely continue to see his 2-5 targets per game as a boom-or-bust TE2 in fantasy.

SOURCE: Rick Stroud on Twitter

Oct 16, 2019, 9:47 PM ET

 

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Regarding the report above, I think there's also a pretty strong argument for trading Howard. With the way Arians uses his TEs, Howard is readily replaceable with what they have on their roster and/ or can add via the draft/ free agency. So he's probably more valuable to another team than he is to the Bucs. 

That being said, the report did stop me from picking up Howard as a trade deadline stash.

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18 hours ago, bolzano said:

Regarding the report above, I think there's also a pretty strong argument for trading Howard. With the way Arians uses his TEs, Howard is readily replaceable with what they have on their roster and/ or can add via the draft/ free agency. So he's probably more valuable to another team than he is to the Bucs. 

That being said, the report did stop me from picking up Howard as a trade deadline stash.

I wish they would move him but I don’t see any motivation to. Howard’s underuse is specific to receiving but everything I’ve read indicates that TB has him on the field for a ton of plays so they’re “using” him just not as a receiver. Is that a waste of his talent? I think so but my interests are for ff. TB has him on his rookie contract so if they want to just throw his body in front of defensive ends for the next two years they can do so on the cheap. 

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There is a lot more to football than fantasy stats.  

Arians needs Howard blocking to help give more time for his deep routes to develop. 

One of the dangers of really good all around Tight Ends who can actually block is that they are more valuable to their team blocking a lot than running routes. 

OJ Howard is a way better Tight End for actual football than Evan Engram, but it's not going to be reflected in fantasy unless TB replaces Brate with a Drew Sample type. 

 

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23 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

There is a lot more to football than fantasy stats.  

Arians needs Howard blocking to help give more time for his deep routes to develop. 

One of the dangers of really good all around Tight Ends who can actually block is that they are more valuable to their team blocking a lot than running routes. 

OJ Howard is a way better Tight End for actual football than Evan Engram, but it's not going to be reflected in fantasy unless TB replaces Brate with a Drew Sample type. 

 

He has a reputation for being a good blocker, but is he really? I'd like to see his PFF grades for this season, as he's getting hate for his overall play (including his blocking) on the Bucs message boards.

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11 minutes ago, bolzano said:

He has a reputation for being a good blocker, but is he really? I'd like to see his PFF grades for this season, as he's getting hate for his overall play (including his blocking) on the Bucs message boards.

Yes, they graded him as the 2nd best TE last year. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/PFF/status/1097877477593137155?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-3835903789104766580.ampproject.net%2F1910071804120%2Fframe.html

Bucs fans on message board are probably... Uninformed?  Maybe he's missing some blocks, but is capable? 

PFF is also far from perfect 

Edited by kittenmittens

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2 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

Yeah, I knew about his PFF ranking for 2018. I was hoping that someone might have the grades for this season (in particular, the blocking grades).

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1 hour ago, bolzano said:

Yeah, I knew about his PFF ranking for 2018. I was hoping that someone might have the grades for this season (in particular, the blocking grades).

Sure, I'm not sure it tells us much though unless Brate is rating higher for blocking? 

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16 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

Sure, I'm not sure it tells us much though unless Brate is rating higher for blocking? 

I know his blocking graded poorly in 2017, and it was much improved last season.

Anyhow, the Bucs have a lot of needs across the offensive line and defense, and they probably should be in a rebuilding state. Brate is arguably their preferred receiving TE, he's getting paid like a starter, and finding a blocking TE at Howard's cost shouldn't be that difficult. So if they can deal Howard for, say, a package of draft picks, I think they should strongly consider it, as the incremental improvement at more integral roles in their system might more than offset the loss/ replacement of Howard.

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(Rotoworld) According to Sports Illustrated's Albert Breer, the Patriots inquired about O.J. Howard but were told he's not available.

Signed a frustrated OJ Howard owner

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5 minutes ago, Brandon Will said:

(Rotoworld) According to Sports Illustrated's Albert Breer, the Patriots inquired about O.J. Howard but were told he's not available.

Signed a frustrated OJ Howard owner

Wow. He’s helping the Bucs too much huh...

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1 hour ago, Brandon Will said:

(Rotoworld) According to Sports Illustrated's Albert Breer, the Patriots inquired about O.J. Howard but were told he's not available.

Signed a frustrated OJ Howard owner

To be fair, the Pats probably offered a conditional 2021 7th rounder.

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1 hour ago, RBM said:

Wow. He’s helping the Bucs too much huh...

Arians needs a third OT out there to create time for his slow developing plays. Apparently nobody else on the roster is competent enough to fill that role.

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Would love to see Seattle pony up for him with the rumor that they are shopping for TE. 

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3 hours ago, Brandon Will said:

(Rotoworld) According to Sports Illustrated's Albert Breer, the Patriots inquired about O.J. Howard but were told he's not available.

Signed a frustrated OJ Howard owner

Ugh. I’d rather not know. 

Edited by DAG
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Bucs TE O.J. Howard (hamstring) was limited for Wednesday's practice.

It may seem like Howard's battled a hamstring injury all year since he's been invisible, but he's actually a new addition to Tampa's injury report ahead of Week 8 (and, oddly enough, out of the team's bye). With two more touchdowns than Howard on the year, Cameron Brate would be the player to roster if the former remains limited this week. Brate makes for a sneaky speculative add even if Howard's healthy since the 24-year-old could potentially be on his way out by Tuesday's trade deadline.

SOURCE: Greg Auman on Twitter

Oct 23, 2019, 4:19 PM ET

 

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So if a team thinks it can pick up O.J. Howard for cheap while his stock is low, the Bucs should hang up the phone. But if the conversation begins with a second-round pick, Licht needs to consider whether the Bucs can really afford to carry two high-priced tight ends (along with Cameron Brate) when the position is underutilized in Bruce Arians’ offense, and when there are other areas of greater need on the roster.

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/bucs/2019/10/23/bucs-should-start-trading-if-they-lose-to-tennessee-and-even-if-they-win/

Quote

You might have to ask Jason (Licht) about that one. Bill (Belichick) didn’t call me.

https://www.pewterreport.com/bucs-arians-on-howard-trade-rumors-bill-belichick-didnt-call-me/

Quote

“Part of it’s game planning, part of it’s opportunities in the game,” Bruce Arians said on Wednesday. “And he’s got to catch them, he dropped two balls last week. That hurts.

https://www.pewterreport.com/bucs-arians-points-to-reasons-for-howards-struggles/

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I'm picking up Howard (where available) to hold till the trade deadline. Trading him makes sense, IMO, and Arians doesn't seem to be his biggest fan. Given how bad TE is this year, I think it's a worthwhile speculative add. 

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No practice today again.

Wonder if this is a phantom injury here. Something is fishy. After a bye he's not practicing.

Rotoworld forum buzzing about a trade to Seattle. Of course, I don't have a source. And this would be wishful thinking.

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Rotoworld take:

O.J. Howard (hamstring) didn't suit up for practice Thursday.

Howard was limited on Wednesday, so the downgrade is concerning for his chances at suiting up Sunday against the Titans. Cam Brate (12-119-2 on 14 targets) has been a superior fantasy option to Howard (13-176-0 on 18 targets) after seven weeks of action. Brate would be a low-end TE1 if Howard is ultimately sidelined against the Titans' 27th-ranked defense in DVOA against the TE position.

SOURCE: Trevor Sikkema on Twitter.

Oct 24, 2019, 11:30 AM ET

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54 minutes ago, kyoun1e said:

No practice today again.

Wonder if this is a phantom injury here. Something is fishy. After a bye he's not practicing.

Rotoworld forum buzzing about a trade to Seattle. Of course, I don't have a source. And this would be wishful thinking.

Many of us are holding while we wish for the trade.  It just makes sense.  

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1 minute ago, DocHolliday said:

Many of us are holding while we wish for the trade.  It just makes sense.  

If TB isn’t going to use him as a receiver it’s dumb to keep him.

great blocking only te’s can be had cheaply.

using a guy drafted top half of first round to only block is a huge waste of resources.

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1 hour ago, kyoun1e said:

No practice today again.

Wonder if this is a phantom injury here. Something is fishy. After a bye he's not practicing.

Rotoworld forum buzzing about a trade to Seattle. Of course, I don't have a source. And this would be wishful thinking.

I thought this same thing but I was thinking NE.   But Seattle makes sense too.  

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4 hours ago, kyoun1e said:

Rotoworld forum buzzing about a trade to Seattle.

:wub:

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