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Dynasty & Redraft: RB Dalvin Cook, Vikings

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According to Chris Tomasson of the St. Paul Pioneer Press, Dalvin Cook and Latavius Murray could "split a good bit of the rushing load" this season.

Coach Mike Zimmer said it's "too early" to think about how carries will be distributed, though he said both will be "factors." Murray played well down the stretch last season and could work in tandem with Cook, who is coming off a torn ACL. Cook is still the back to own for fantasy purposes, though Murray's presence makes him a tough sell as an RB1.

Related: Latavius Murray

Source: St. Paul Pioneer Press 

Aug 17 - 4:48 PM

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This is concerning for his round 2 value.  ADP has him going about 12-15.  Just don't see who would vault him in RB rankings.  McCaffrey?  Devonta Freeman?  Jordan Howard?  Way too early for any of those guys in my opinion.  If you are at the back end of the draft and want to come out with two RBs, I think a Gordon/Cook or Fournette/Cook combo could be dynamite.

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I’m not buying it. I understand not wanting to risk another injury, but you don’t limit a talent like that, especially with a team that has a win now mentality.

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I do think they will start him a little slow, but once both the team and he feel completely comfortable, he will be a beast.

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Agree with all above. It’s all beat writer spinning what’s not even there. They are being elusive in their wording when there is no indication that Cook and Murray are going to split significant time. I see Cook getting a higher % distribution than most other teams.

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Murray is going to be a limiting factor. Book it.

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28 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

Murray blows 

He was pretty good around the GL last year. I don't think Cook is built like or runs like a GL back. I would be a bit worried. Cook is closer to  the CMC/McKinnon group than he is the Hunt/Fournette group IMO. 

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420 carries for the Vikes last year.

Murray was already destined for short yardage work, incl around the goal-line.

You are looking at a 60/40 split. Not a big deal if you like Dalvin. 

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39 minutes ago, ponchsox said:

Hard pass in the first round. I’m taking Freeman and Howard ahead of him.

Really? Maybe it’s the rose colored glasses of my man crush but I wouldn’t hesitate to grab Cook if it were between those 3. Howard maaaaaybe in standard. 

Edited by Elevencents

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49 minutes ago, ponchsox said:

Hard pass in the first round. I’m taking Freeman and Howard ahead of him.

I'd take Freeman in ppr definitely. Fournette in both ahead of Cook. 

Edited by flapgreen

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8 minutes ago, Elevencents said:

Really? Maybe it’s the rose colored glasses of my man crush but I wouldn’t hesitate to grab Cook if it were between those 3. Howard maaaaaybe in standard. 

I think it is a fair group of players. Howard has an advantage in standard because of his TD potential and Cook has the reception advantage in PPR. Again, Cook has played in 3.5 NFL games and it was when Murray was still recovering from an ankle injury and there is a new OC. 

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1 hour ago, flapgreen said:

I'd take Freeman in ppr definitely. Fournette in both ahead of Cook. 

Again, could be my man crush but I wouldn’t give it a second glance if Cook and Freeman are both available.

- Freeman averaged ~14 carries a game to Cook’s ~19 (small sample size I know) and this was with McKinnon still there.

- Freeman had 5 above average weeks in my league; 2 were without Coleman. Cook was 2 out of 3 - injury game could have fallen on either side 

- Coleman is >>>>>> to Murray and that is much more a 50/50 split in ATL with what I would expect to be a 65/35 split in Minny.

- Freeman has Arizona and Carolina (3 & 4 ranked on CBS) weeks 15/16 and Cook has Miami and Detroit (27/29). 

I just foresee a lot more consistency with Cook than I do Freeman even though their ceilings may be comparable. Again, man crush bias PLUS Freeman single handedly cost me almost a thousand dollars d/t his week 15 performance, haha. 

Now Gordon vs Cook OTOH - that I’m truly split on.

 

Edited by Elevencents
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3 minutes ago, Bazinga! said:

Thought I was in the J Gordon thread for a second.

Anyone that thinks Murray will hold back a healthy Cook is an idiot.  In the 3 full games Cook played last year the touch split was 71-7.

I agree with the overall sentiment but Murray wasn’t healthy for those games.

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20 minutes ago, Elevencents said:

Again, could be my man crush but I wouldn’t give it a second glance if Cook and Freeman are both available.

- Freeman averaged ~14 carries a game to Cook’s ~19 (small sample size I know) and this was with McKinnon still there.

- Freeman had 5 above average weeks in my league; 2 were without Coleman. Cook was 2 out of 3 - injury game could have fallen on either side 

- Coleman is >>>>>> to Murray and that is much more a 50/50 split in ATL with what I would expect to be a 65/35 split in Minny.

- Freeman has Arizona and Carolina (3 & 4 ranked on CBS) weeks 15/16 and Cook has Miami and Detroit (27/29). 

I just foresee a lot more consistency with Cook than I do Freeman even though their ceilings may be comparable. Again, man crush bias PLUS Freeman single handedly cost me almost a thousand dollars d/t his week 15 performance, haha. 

Now Gordon vs Cook OTOH - that I’m truly split on.

 

I just like a guy who's done it before and not coming off a major injury. I think Freeman will return closer to 2 years ago than last year. 

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How isn't there more discussion in here about the currently devastated Minny OL? That's Cook's biggest risk factor right now IMO.

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Cook costs me a 16th round pick these next 2 years as a keeper. I also decided to trade Hunt away over Cook as I have a feeling that the Vikes offense is going to sing with Cousins. If Thompson can be a PPR AS with absolutely no between-the-tackles ability, imagine what Cook can do.

Edited by oddsbodkins

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16 hours ago, Bazinga! said:

Thought I was in the J Gordon thread for a second.

Anyone that thinks Murray will hold back a healthy Cook is an idiot.  In the 3 full games Cook played last year the touch split was 71-7.

True. Then again that didn't work out to well for Cook.

And @LawFitz is right the Minnesota O-line, which most people think came together surprisingly well last year has been hit hard by injuries.

 

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43 minutes ago, Chaka said:

True. Then again that didn't work out to well for Cook.

And @LawFitz is right the Minnesota O-line, which most people think came together surprisingly well last year has been hit hard by injuries.

 

It has.

Multiple Vikings suffered 'serious' injuries against Jacksonville

Quote

Guard Cedrick Lang will undergo surgery on his right leg, according to Zimmer, and is headed for injured reserve. Defensive end Ade Aruna needed crutches to exit the locker room with a brace on his right knee. Receiver Jeff Badet is in the concussion protocol after taking a flagged hit to the head. Center Josh Andrews (ankle) and fullback Johnny Stanton (left leg) were also helped off the field and did not return.

This is with Nick Easton also out for the season and also the loss of offensive line coach Tony Sparano.

I don't think Lang was going to make the cut anyways, but Andrews looked good in the first preseason game and good depth. Maybe he won't be out long though.

Remmers may play in the 3rd preseason game.Hill also should be back.  Elflien is still on PUP.

In the meantime Aviante Collins has gotten the opportunity to shine and Cornelius Edison have looked pretty good although the Jaguars were a handful and created a lot of pressure. they were doing a good job of run blocking on some of the plays.

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21 hours ago, oddsbodkins said:

Cook costs me a 16th round pick these next 2 years as a keeper. I also decided to trade Hunt away over Cook as I have a feeling that the Vikes offense is going to sing with Cousins. If Thompson can be a PPR AS with absolutely no between-the-tackles ability, imagine what Cook can do.

You decided you'd rather have the guy 10 months removed from ACL surgery?

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2 minutes ago, Stuart Ullman said:

You decided you'd rather have the guy 10 months removed from ACL surgery?

Well, I got Hopkins for Hunt so the choice was easy but they're interchangeable to me anyhow. ACL means little the first time around as young players heal fast and are usually stronger during the first recovery. Can't be scared off yet. 

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2 minutes ago, oddsbodkins said:

Well, I got Hopkins for Hunt so the choice was easy but they're interchangeable to me anyhow. ACL means little the first time around as young players heal fast and are usually stronger during the first recovery. Can't be scared off yet. 

Fair enough, I'm just afraid that Dalvin Cook might end up being injury prone. I really like the fact that Kareem Hunt played all 16 games last season.

Can't shake the old school mentality of avoiding an RB after an ACL tear. I know there's a higher chance he suffers another tear at this point.

Hope this works out for you but I definitely think you took a gamble shipping away the guy who played 16 games versus the guy coming off a severe injury.

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42 minutes ago, Bazinga! said:

First statement is just lazy/weak.  You really blaming an injury on a 3 1/2 game workload?

The second statement is a real concern.  The line is good if healthy, but they do lack depth

Lazy/weak/true.

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28 minutes ago, Bazinga! said:

You get on people for this stuff and then do it and justify it?

 

#hypocritemuch?

Say what now?

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3 minutes ago, Bazinga! said:

:wall:

Are you referring to my asking you, politely IMO, to not make light of domestic abuse in the Josh Gordon thread?

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5 minutes ago, Elevencents said:

Well ####. The OLine injuries may be the tiebreaker for me between Cook and Gordon.

You also know Gordon has a strangle hold on RZ work. Say what you will about Murray but his success rate in the RZ last year probably didn't go unnoticed by Zimmer.

I'd pick Gordon and it's not even really close for me. I also don't think Gordon is as good as Cook but that's kind of irrelevant. 

Edited by SameSongNDance
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Just now, Bazinga! said:

Not at all and I never made light of domestic abuse.  You talk in other threads about being intellectually honest, but you then make a comment that alludes to Cooks injury being a result of workload "True. Then again that didn't work out to well for Cook.".  Then when called out, you respond with "Lazy/weak/true".  No it isn't true.  He didn't tear an ACL due to his workload in 3.5 games and anyone with one once of intellectual honesty would have just admitted it.

If you can't follow that, I can't help you and will have to stop :wall:

I think it is fair to criticize me for the intellectual honesty comment because of my failure to expand on my original comment which left it open to misinterpretation.

The high usage didn't work out well for Cook that's true. I think the Vikings are aware of that and will spell him more this season than they did to start last season.  So I see less usage for him in 2018 than he received in 2017. 

He had 90 carries+targets in roughly 3 1/2 games which put him on a pace for (also roughly) 411 opportunities (~389 touches).  I think that number comes down probably significantly.  Particularly as Latavius played well in the second half of the season after he got over his leg injuries. It is also important (possibly) that the Vikings didn't really seem to miss a beat on the field going 11-3 without Dalvin (including playoffs).

I would project Dalvin for closer to 300 touches behind an offensive line that looks to have taken a step back (on paper).

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11 minutes ago, Bazinga! said:

Not at all and I never made light of domestic abuse.  You talk in other threads about being intellectually honest, but you then make a comment that alludes to Cooks injury being a result of workload "True. Then again that didn't work out to well for Cook.".  Then when called out, you respond with "Lazy/weak/true".  No it isn't true.  He didn't tear an ACL due to his workload in 3.5 games and anyone with one once of intellectual honesty would have just admitted it.

If you can't follow that, I can't help you and will have to stop :wall:

Comparing Josh Gordon supporters to abused domestic partners is making light of domestic abuse whether you realize it or not.

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2 minutes ago, Chaka said:

I think it is fair to criticize me for the intellectual honesty comment because of my failure to expand on my original comment which left it open to misinterpretation.

The high usage didn't work out well for Cook that's true. 

Not it’s not true. An ACL tear is not a “high usage” injury. You’re aware that many players tear their ACLs in drills in camp right?

Guice just tore his on one of his first carries of the preseason.

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30 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Not it’s not true. An ACL tear is not a “high usage” injury. You’re aware that many players tear their ACLs in drills in camp right?

Guice just tore his on one of his first carries of the preseason.

Fair enough. Cook had high usage and, in unrelated news, he suffered a knee injury.

Please cut/replace into my previous post. 

I don't see a pace anywhere close to the 411 opportunities he was on pace for in 2017 and I think his efficiency will decline due to issues on tue offensive line.

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33 minutes ago, Bazinga! said:

That is not true unless you are saying the injury was due to workload. 

Okay, I have no problem saying the usage and knee injury we're not related.

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1 minute ago, Chaka said:

Fair enough. Cook had high usage and, in unrelated news, he suffered a knee injury.

Please cut/replace into my previous post. 

I don't see a pace anywhere close to the 411 opportunities he was on pace for in 2017 and I think his efficiency will decline due to issues on tue offensive line.

Sure I said earlier in this thread Murray wasn’t healthy early in the season when Cook was seeing the backfield to himself. I anticipate Murray spelling Cook more than he and McKinnon did early last season, but he’s the better back by a fair margin and it wouldn’t concern me if I was in a position to draft him. Since I have pick 4 it’s pretty likely I won’t be.

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36 minutes ago, Bazinga! said:

Actually it is not.  If that is how you chose to receive it, that is on you.

I am totally aware that the only thing anyone truly has control over is their response.

Now is defending comments that may (do) make light of domestic abuse a response you really want to plant your flag on?

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Just now, Dr. Octopus said:

Sure I said earlier in this thread Murray wasn’t healthy early in the season when Cook was seeing the backfield to himself. I anticipate Murray spelling Cook more than he and McKinnon did early last season, but he’s the better back by a fair margin and it wouldn’t concern me if I was in a position to draft him. Since I have pick 4 it’s pretty likely I won’t be.

Cook is clearly the unquestioned lead back. I am just thinking his baseline for opportunities is closer to 300 then the pace he was on last season. I wouldn't be surprised if he hits 350 but I see that as his ceiling.

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2 minutes ago, Bazinga! said:

Count me out of the politically correct culture.  I have nothing but love and concern for people in that situation.  If/when I use their situation as an analogy for a behavior I see as similar and someone choses to take offense, I could give a rats ###.

Political correctness is nothing more than a dog whistle fake issue. It has nothing to do with making light of domestic abuse.

But you chose your response today, perhaps tomorrow you will chose a different response (or maybe I will).

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9 hours ago, Bazinga! said:

First statement is just lazy/weak.  You really blaming an injury on a 3 1/2 game workload?

The second statement is a real concern.  The line is good if healthy, but they do lack depth

I guess this is all relative.

I think the Vikings have better depth than they had last season and especially better depth than in 2016.

Cook was able to do his thing with what the Vikings had last season, and I don't think their offensive line is worse than last season. The depth looks better to me this year than last.

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7 hours ago, Chaka said:

The high usage didn't work out well for Cook that's true. 

No this isn't true. Everything you said to support this idea is also just in your head. It isn't how the coaches feel about it at all.

You are talking about a RB who averaged 25 touches per game at the college level and 24 touches per game at the NFL level. He has shown he can be productive with a high workload and that he has the talent to deserve a big workload.

His injury was non contact variety could have happened at any time. I don't see any relationship between the injury and Cooks workload.

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4 hours ago, LawFitz said:

In addition to Lat Murray, it appears the Vikes also now have a young Chris Ivory backing up Cook. He's not in Cook's class, but this kid runs HARD.

https://twitter.com/NFL/status/1031224657645469696?s=09

Boone and Roc Thomas have been playing well behind this offensive line.

I think that bodes well for what Cook will be able to do.

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39 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

Boone and Roc Thomas have been playing well behind this offensive line.

I think that bodes well for what Cook will be able to do.

Nice simple observation that makes sense. No need for analytics. 

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