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Dynasty & Redraft: RB Dalvin Cook, Vikings

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I’ll never begrudge a guy wanting to get paid, especially a RB since they have shorter careers, but Cook has been unable to stay healthy. Any team would have to be crazy to pay top money to a RB who has never made it through a whole season and missed 19 of 48 possible regular season games thus far. 

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38 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

I’ll never begrudge a guy wanting to get paid, especially a RB since they have shorter careers, but Cook has been unable to stay healthy. Any team would have to be crazy to pay top money to a RB who has never made it through a whole season and missed 19 of 48 possible regular season games thus far. 

Yeah, I'm glad if the other posts I've read are accurate that Cook has no leverage. Even though I'm a Vikes fan, a guy who has never made it through a 16 game season still under a rookie contract should not be able to hold out without it costing them. Play out your contract, prove you can stay healthy. Even if he does stay healthy in 2020, I let someone else invest the $16M/per he's seeking. RBs are not worth anywhere near that money.

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https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/dalvin-cook-holdout-why-its-only-a-matter-of-time-until-vikings-make-him-one-of-highest-paid-rbs/

 

Dalvin Cook and the Minnesota Vikings have been discussing a contract extension since March, with general manager Rick Spielman later suggesting a deal could be struck before the 2020 season. Things took a seemingly ominous turn on Monday night, when ESPN's Adam Schefter reported that Cook will hold out from any team-related activities until he gets a "reasonable extension."

But if any Vikings fans are fretting over the threat of Cook failing to show up for "camp or beyond," they shouldn't.

If one thing's inevitable, it's this: The Vikings are going to pay Dalvin Cook a lot of money. They're probably going to make him one of the NFL's highest-paid running backs. All indications are that it's a matter of when, not if, these two sides settle their stalemate.

Cook's camp, per Schefter, feels as though the Vikings' latest contract offers demonstrate that Minnesota is a quarterback-first team, with Kirk Cousins already on a second deal that'll pay him an average of $32 million over the next three seasons. But which organization isn't a QB-first team? The ones with QBs on rookie contracts? That argument is purely a negotiation play. Cook and his representatives simply want the Vikings' star RB to be compensated at a level closer to Cousins, who's thrived playing alongside No. 33.

And guess what? The Vikings have little choice but to grant his wish.

Firstly, from a football perspective, Cook remains the centerpiece of what they do. Cousins excelled as a play-action aficionado in 2019, but that's in large part due to Cook's explosive presence and production on the ground. Then, this offseason, the Vikings doubled down on a Cook-featured offense by trading away big-play threat Stefon Diggs, drafting volume receiver Justin Jefferson and recommitting to Cousins -- every move an indication they plan to play even more of a ball-control offense, especially considering the uncertain state of a youth-ified defense.

Could the Vikings turn to 2019 third-rounder Alexander Mattison instead? Sure, but if they've been intent on inking Cook to a long-term deal for months, why would a couple million more per year completely flip the script now? There's reason for NFL teams to be wary of handing big money to any RB, let alone one who, like Cook, has missed 19 games in three years. New collective bargaining agreement rules also dictate that Cook will sacrifice an accrued NFL season if he fails to report to camp, meaning he'd be a restricted free agent -- and under the Vikings' control -- after 2020 if he does, in fact, hold out into the summer.

But all of that fails to acknowledge the Vikings' internal admiration for Cook. Aside from being one of the two most important pieces of an offense built around the running game, Cook is also very well liked throughout the building. Team officials gushed about his off-field work during the pandemic, and his quiet demeanor both on the field and in public is a welcome contrast to, say, that of Diggs.

Speaking of Diggs, Spielman and Co. are still fresh off their reluctant auction of the star receiver. Even with contractual leverage on their side in talks with Cook, one of the last things they want to do is alienate another young, homegrown talent. And while Cook's absence may very well extend into July, he's already made it clear he wants to be in Minnesota for the long term.

When push comes to shove, Cook's injury history will assuredly be the biggest hurdle for his party in contract talks. Durability concerns alone could keep him from resetting the market or even matching Christian McCaffrey's record $16M-per-year deal with the Carolina Panthers. But the Vikings' reported initial offer of less than $10M per year won't get it done. A fair, ultimate expectation is something like a four-year, $54M agreement ($13.5M per season), which would make Cook a top-three RB in terms of annual salary, just behind fellow 24-year-olds McCaffrey and Ezekiel Elliott, and just ahead of veterans like Le'Veon Bell and David Johnson.

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Had to believe Cook turned down $10 million a year.  Seems like a fair price for a RB now a days especially one who has missed so many games.  Gordon turned down $10 mill a year and got less.  Cook is much younger though but again if he is a restrictive FA that doesn't bode well he won't make much next year even on a 1st round tender.

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47 minutes ago, Dez said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/dalvin-cook-holdout-why-its-only-a-matter-of-time-until-vikings-make-him-one-of-highest-paid-rbs/

 

Dalvin Cook and the Minnesota Vikings have been discussing a contract extension since March, with general manager Rick Spielman later suggesting a deal could be struck before the 2020 season. Things took a seemingly ominous turn on Monday night, when ESPN's Adam Schefter reported that Cook will hold out from any team-related activities until he gets a "reasonable extension."

But if any Vikings fans are fretting over the threat of Cook failing to show up for "camp or beyond," they shouldn't.

If one thing's inevitable, it's this: The Vikings are going to pay Dalvin Cook a lot of money. They're probably going to make him one of the NFL's highest-paid running backs. All indications are that it's a matter of when, not if, these two sides settle their stalemate.

Cook's camp, per Schefter, feels as though the Vikings' latest contract offers demonstrate that Minnesota is a quarterback-first team, with Kirk Cousins already on a second deal that'll pay him an average of $32 million over the next three seasons. But which organization isn't a QB-first team? The ones with QBs on rookie contracts? That argument is purely a negotiation play. Cook and his representatives simply want the Vikings' star RB to be compensated at a level closer to Cousins, who's thrived playing alongside No. 33.

And guess what? The Vikings have little choice but to grant his wish.

Firstly, from a football perspective, Cook remains the centerpiece of what they do. Cousins excelled as a play-action aficionado in 2019, but that's in large part due to Cook's explosive presence and production on the ground. Then, this offseason, the Vikings doubled down on a Cook-featured offense by trading away big-play threat Stefon Diggs, drafting volume receiver Justin Jefferson and recommitting to Cousins -- every move an indication they plan to play even more of a ball-control offense, especially considering the uncertain state of a youth-ified defense.

Could the Vikings turn to 2019 third-rounder Alexander Mattison instead? Sure, but if they've been intent on inking Cook to a long-term deal for months, why would a couple million more per year completely flip the script now? There's reason for NFL teams to be wary of handing big money to any RB, let alone one who, like Cook, has missed 19 games in three years. New collective bargaining agreement rules also dictate that Cook will sacrifice an accrued NFL season if he fails to report to camp, meaning he'd be a restricted free agent -- and under the Vikings' control -- after 2020 if he does, in fact, hold out into the summer.

But all of that fails to acknowledge the Vikings' internal admiration for Cook. Aside from being one of the two most important pieces of an offense built around the running game, Cook is also very well liked throughout the building. Team officials gushed about his off-field work during the pandemic, and his quiet demeanor both on the field and in public is a welcome contrast to, say, that of Diggs.

Speaking of Diggs, Spielman and Co. are still fresh off their reluctant auction of the star receiver. Even with contractual leverage on their side in talks with Cook, one of the last things they want to do is alienate another young, homegrown talent. And while Cook's absence may very well extend into July, he's already made it clear he wants to be in Minnesota for the long term.

When push comes to shove, Cook's injury history will assuredly be the biggest hurdle for his party in contract talks. Durability concerns alone could keep him from resetting the market or even matching Christian McCaffrey's record $16M-per-year deal with the Carolina Panthers. But the Vikings' reported initial offer of less than $10M per year won't get it done. A fair, ultimate expectation is something like a four-year, $54M agreement ($13.5M per season), which would make Cook a top-three RB in terms of annual salary, just behind fellow 24-year-olds McCaffrey and Ezekiel Elliott, and just ahead of veterans like Le'Veon Bell and David Johnson.

He's insane.  

After an ACL in 2017 and an injury riddled 2018--he finally had one good season.  And even then, he missed 2 games.  

A lot of durability questions, in a league that doesn't love RB's as it is.  Melvin Gordon has played more games, has more yards and more TD's in the last 3 seasons than Cook.  He got 2 years for 16 million.  Cook should take his 10 million and call it a day.  

I'm all for the players, especially RB's getting paid while you can.  You've got a short career.  You're never going to make this kind of money again.  But turning down 10 million a season after you've only produced for 1 season seems absurd.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, jm192 said:

He's insane.  

After an ACL in 2017 and an injury riddled 2018--he finally had one good season.  And even then, he missed 2 games.  

A lot of durability questions, in a league that doesn't love RB's as it is.  Melvin Gordon has played more games, has more yards and more TD's in the last 3 seasons than Cook.  He got 2 years for 16 million.  Cook should take his 10 million and call it a day.  

I'm all for the players, especially RB's getting paid while you can.  You've got a short career.  You're never going to make this kind of money again.  But turning down 10 million a season after you've only produced for 1 season seems absurd.

The more games and more tds/ more yards are directly correlated. Cook is a much better player than Melvin as a runner and receiver. I’m sure most would agree Cook is a top 5 rb in the league. I don’t know if most would consider Melvin a top 10 back at this point. Cook should easily get 2 mil more than Melvin per year.

Edited by Bruceman6

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2 minutes ago, Bruceman6 said:

The more games and more tds/ more yards are directly correlated. Cook is a much better player than Melvin as a runner and receiver. I’m sure most would agree Cook is a top 5 rb in the league. I don’t know if most would consider Melvin a top 10 back at this point. Cook should easily get 2 mil more than Melvin per year.

I guess I misread it, I thought they offered 10 million a year and he balked.  

I definitely think he's worth more than Melvin, but not by a lot.  I mean, 2 million dollars is a ton.  But I think that's a reasonable offer considering his injury history.  

And while you're 1000% right in terms of the yards/td's correlating to games played--there's got to be some discount for missing so many games.  Go play 16 games, rush for 1500 yards, and then tell them to pay you.

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32 minutes ago, jm192 said:

I guess I misread it, I thought they offered 10 million a year and he balked.  

I definitely think he's worth more than Melvin, but not by a lot.  I mean, 2 million dollars is a ton.  But I think that's a reasonable offer considering his injury history.  

And while you're 1000% right in terms of the yards/td's correlating to games played--there's got to be some discount for missing so many games.  Go play 16 games, rush for 1500 yards, and then tell them to pay you.

It did say Minnesota offered $10 mill a year and he didn't take it.

 

"It's still far removed from the Vikings' initial offer of $10 million per year. "

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, jm192 said:

I guess I misread it, I thought they offered 10 million a year and he balked.  

I definitely think he's worth more than Melvin, but not by a lot.  I mean, 2 million dollars is a ton.  But I think that's a reasonable offer considering his injury history.  

And while you're 1000% right in terms of the yards/td's correlating to games played--there's got to be some discount for missing so many games.  Go play 16 games, rush for 1500 yards, and then tell them to pay you.

The way I read it, it looks like the initial offer was around 10 mil a year. Idk if anything I said made you second guess yourself on that. Gordon has also had his fair share of injuries also. Looks like only one season with all 16 games, and even in that season he was banged up often. I think cook should and will end up getting more than 10. Probably 12-13.

Edited by Bruceman6

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2 hours ago, Wigglytuff's Gruff said:

So should we be targeting Cook now while there are question marks?

As an owner with a strong “win now” squad, i think I would consider a deal for an RB1 who’s older or less talented to lose the risk. 

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16 minutes ago, Faust said:

Nice breakdown of why holdouts just don't hold any leverage anymore.  I didn't realize just missing mini camp would throw him into the restricted area next season.

 

Quote

"If Dalvin Cook does not report on the mandatory reporting date next month with his teammates, or at any point thereafter does not fulfill his contract for any material period of time, he would not accrue the fourth season he needs to become an unrestricted free agent next March. Instead, Cook would be a restricted free agent, meaning the Vikings could retain him with a first-round restricted tender worth between $4 [million] and $5 million instead of having to apply a franchise tag that would be worth roughly double that."

 

 

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38 minutes ago, ratbast said:

As an owner with a strong “win now” squad, i think I would consider a deal for an RB1 who’s older or less talented to lose the risk. 

Why not just keep Cook and trade for Mattison?

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6 hours ago, Wigglytuff's Gruff said:

So should we be targeting Cook now while there are question marks?

JMHO, I'm going the other way on this as a Cook owner. Whenever a RB is on the cusp of a huge de-motivational payday, I want to cut bait and run for the hills.

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19 hours ago, Bruceman6 said:

The way I read it, it looks like the initial offer was around 10 mil a year. Idk if anything I said made you second guess yourself on that. Gordon has also had his fair share of injuries also. Looks like only one season with all 16 games, and even in that season he was banged up often. I think cook should and will end up getting more than 10. Probably 12-13.

Gambling 10m for 4-5m in upside. LeVeon should start an RB consulting agency.

even if he bets on himself this year to be an UFA, the nfl will be coming off a bad financial year, cap and salary inflation has to take a hit. Take the 2 year deal that sets you for life and you get another bite of the apple on the next contract in your mid/late prime a year earlier

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5 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Why not just keep Cook and trade for Mattison?

Because people are insane right now.  Case in point Chad Parsons had a show last night and this girl on there was saying she wanted JK Dobbins, Swift or Akers for Mattison plus a little.

They were saying you should be getting a top 6 pick in this year's draft for him right now.  They said they wouldn't even consider a 2021 future 1st for him unless that was for sure coming from a bad team.

So ya no one is trading for him if that is what it cost.

Some guy in 1 of my dyno leagues stupidly traded Mattison away PLUS a 5th round pick for a 4th round pick a month ago to the Cook owner.  I asked him why he would do such a thing he said he didn't value him at all.  (He took over a team the previous owner loved Mattison and drafted him last year)

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On 6/9/2020 at 2:17 PM, Ghost Rider said:

I’ll never begrudge a guy wanting to get paid, especially a RB since they have shorter careers, but Cook has been unable to stay healthy. Any team would have to be crazy to pay top money to a RB who has never made it through a whole season and missed 19 of 48 possible regular season games thus far. 

You may be able to just state the bold portion.

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8 minutes ago, Dez said:

Because people are insane right now.  Case in point Chad Parsons had a show last night and this girl on there was saying she wanted JK Dobbins, Swift or Akers for Mattison plus a little.

They were saying you should be getting a top 6 pick in this year's draft for him right now.  They said they wouldn't even consider a 2021 future 1st for him unless that was for sure coming from a bad team.

So ya no one is trading for him if that is what it cost.

Some guy in 1 of my dyno leagues stupidly traded Mattison away PLUS a 5th round pick for a 4th round pick a month ago to the Cook owner.  I asked him why he would do such a thing he said he didn't value him at all.  (He took over a team the previous owner loved Mattison and drafted him last year)

Mattison is certainly overvalued but I doubt most reasonable owners value him that highly.  It often amazes me how out of touch some of these dynasty podcasts are with actual leagues.  I was listening to one the other day where all 4 people on the podcast agreed that they would not trade a 3rd round rookie pick for David Montgomery.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, FreeBaGeL said:
8 hours ago, Dez said:

Because people are insane right now.  Case in point Chad Parsons had a show last night and this girl on there was saying she wanted JK Dobbins, Swift or Akers for Mattison plus a little.

They were saying you should be getting a top 6 pick in this year's draft for him right now.  They said they wouldn't even consider a 2021 future 1st for him unless that was for sure coming from a bad team.

So ya no one is trading for him if that is what it cost.

Some guy in 1 of my dyno leagues stupidly traded Mattison away PLUS a 5th round pick for a 4th round pick a month ago to the Cook owner.  I asked him why he would do such a thing he said he didn't value him at all.  (He took over a team the previous owner loved Mattison and drafted him last year)

Yup pretty much. My plan was to handcuff him.  Now I’m screwed as Mattisons value won’t let me. 

Edited by ratbast

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Posted (edited)

Just hold Cook. If they have offered $10 and he has said he would take $13, they are going to get this settled (11.5?). Then Mattison goes back to super cheap and you can handcuff. Don't jump off a cliff because Mattison is way over-priced for a few weeks. 

Edited by Catbird
Spelling hid meaning.
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I agree with Catbird.

You buy the bad news Cook may hold out and you sell the good news Mattison may get more opportunity.

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19 hours ago, Dez said:

Because people are insane right now.  Case in point Chad Parsons had a show last night and this girl on there was saying she wanted JK Dobbins, Swift or Akers for Mattison plus a little.

They were saying you should be getting a top 6 pick in this year's draft for him right now.  They said they wouldn't even consider a 2021 future 1st for him unless that was for sure coming from a bad team.

So ya no one is trading for him if that is what it cost.

Some guy in 1 of my dyno leagues stupidly traded Mattison away PLUS a 5th round pick for a 4th round pick a month ago to the Cook owner.  I asked him why he would do such a thing he said he didn't value him at all.  (He took over a team the previous owner loved Mattison and drafted him last year)

Curious what you would put Mattison's worth at?

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2 hours ago, Foosball God said:

Curious what you would put Mattison's worth at?

Untradeable.  By that I mean the people that have him will want much more than the people trying to acquire him will be willing to pay.

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22 hours ago, Dez said:

Because people are insane right now.  Case in point Chad Parsons had a show last night and this girl on there was saying she wanted JK Dobbins, Swift or Akers for Mattison plus a little.

They were saying you should be getting a top 6 pick in this year's draft for him right now.  They said they wouldn't even consider a 2021 future 1st for him unless that was for sure coming from a bad team.

So ya no one is trading for him if that is what it cost.

Some guy in 1 of my dyno leagues stupidly traded Mattison away PLUS a 5th round pick for a 4th round pick a month ago to the Cook owner.  I asked him why he would do such a thing he said he didn't value him at all.  (He took over a team the previous owner loved Mattison and drafted him last year)

This is some of the craziest crazy talk I've ever heard.

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On 6/10/2020 at 3:48 PM, FreeBaGeL said:

Mattison is certainly overvalued but I doubt most reasonable owners value him that highly.  It often amazes me how out of touch some of these dynasty podcasts are with actual leagues.  I was listening to one the other day where all 4 people on the podcast agreed that they would not trade a 3rd round rookie pick for David Montgomery.

Its strange.

Perhaps the idea is to go to the extreme enough on their hawt takes that it causes a reaction. Even if that reaction is mostly disagreeing with them.

It is hard for me to say these people are ignorant of their audience or how leagues work. Its used car salesman tactics that will quickly turn off most reasonable buyers/sellers and they do not likely make many transactions that they are suggesting.

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18 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

This is some of the craziest crazy talk I've ever heard.

Those young RB, plus a little is over the top, but I'm a Mattison owner and I agree that I wouldn't trade him for a 2021 1st unless I knew it was going to be at the top of the draft.  Mattison has already proven he can run in the NFL and is in line to take over in Minnesota sooner rather than later imo.  I'm going to gamble that I'll get a better prospect at the middle to back of the first round?

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33 minutes ago, Foosball God said:

Those young RB, plus a little is over the top, but I'm a Mattison owner and I agree that I wouldn't trade him for a 2021 1st unless I knew it was going to be at the top of the draft.  Mattison has already proven he can run in the NFL and is in line to take over in Minnesota sooner rather than later imo.  I'm going to gamble that I'll get a better prospect at the middle to back of the first round?

I would. :shrug:

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3 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

I would. :shrug:

Interesting, for reference this is the back half of my dyno IDP league draft this year

1.07    Jefferson, Justin MIN WR (R)
1.08    Burrow, Joe CIN QB (R)    
1.09    Ruggs, Henry LVR WR (R)     
1.10    Akers, Cam LAR RB (R)         
1.11    Young, Chase WAS DE (R)    
1.12    Tagovailoa, Tua MIA QB (R)    
1.13    Moss, Zack BUF RB (R)    
1.14    Reagor, Jalen PHI WR (R)

and this was 2019

1.07 Deebo Samuel, WR, SF
1.08 David Montgomery, RB, CHI
1.09 Dwayne Haskins, QB, WAS
1.10 Marquise Brown, WR, BAL
1.11 DK Mefcalf, WR, SEA
1.12 Noah Fant, TE, DEN
1.13 Parris Campbell, WR, IND
1.14 Mecole Hardman, WR, KC

I guess if you want have a bunch of RB depth and want to draft a WR with potential or a QB crapshoot, but otherwise I'm not seeing a lot there that excites me as much as Mattison.  🤷‍♂️

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Foosball God said:

Interesting, for reference this is the back half of my dyno IDP league draft this year

1.07    Jefferson, Justin MIN WR (R)
1.08    Burrow, Joe CIN QB (R)    
1.09    Ruggs, Henry LVR WR (R)     
1.10    Akers, Cam LAR RB (R)         
1.11    Young, Chase WAS DE (R)    
1.12    Tagovailoa, Tua MIA QB (R)    
1.13    Moss, Zack BUF RB (R)    
1.14    Reagor, Jalen PHI WR (R)

and this was 2019

1.07 Deebo Samuel, WR, SF
1.08 David Montgomery, RB, CHI
1.09 Dwayne Haskins, QB, WAS
1.10 Marquise Brown, WR, BAL
1.11 DK Mefcalf, WR, SEA
1.12 Noah Fant, TE, DEN
1.13 Parris Campbell, WR, IND
1.14 Mecole Hardman, WR, KC

I guess if you want have a bunch of RB depth and want to draft a WR with potential or a QB crapshoot, but otherwise I'm not seeing a lot there that excites me as much as Mattison.  🤷‍♂️

I'd trade Mattison for anyone on either of those lists except for Haskins, Campbell, or Hardman. Maybe I'm just really missing the boat here. 

Edited by Andy Dufresne
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5 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

I'd trade Mattison for anyone on either of those lists except for Hasking, Campbell, or Hardman. Maybe I'm just really missing the boat here. 

So someone like Zach Moss has more upside to you than Mattison?  I'll stop here since I don't want to clutter up the Cook thread with too much Mattison talk but thanks for the opinion Andy.

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Yeah all of those seem to have a much clearer path to fantasy relevancy than Mattison. While I do think Mattison is talented he still more than likely ends up playing behind a top 5 rb in the league. The Vikings want to keep cook around IMO if their first offer was around 10 mil. So then your banking on cook getting hurt and Mattison having a couple good games a year, maybe one good season if cook tears an acl. Gimme the gamble on the 1st easily as well.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Foosball God said:

So someone like Zach Moss has more upside to you than Mattison?  I'll stop here since I don't want to clutter up the Cook thread with too much Mattison talk but thanks for the opinion Andy.

Yes, I think someone like Moss has more fantasy upside than Mattison.

Edited by Andy Dufresne
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Banking on Mattison being next in line in Minnesota is quite a gamble.  The most likely scenario is they re-sign Cook and then run the tread off his tires IMO

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6 minutes ago, Foosball God said:

So someone like Zach Moss has more upside to you than Mattison?  I'll stop here since I don't want to clutter up the Cook thread with too much Mattison talk but thanks for the opinion Andy.

I guess the inverse question to this would be how often do these hot handcuffs actually end up giving good long term returns?  It seems like there are one or two similar to this every year and usually they end up just kind of fading off.

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24 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

I guess the inverse question to this would be how often do these hot handcuffs actually end up giving good long term returns?  It seems like there are one or two similar to this every year and usually they end up just kind of fading off.

Maybe I'm being lured by some success but I've struck on guys like Ekeler and Carson so recent history has been on my side, but you're right it doesn't always work.

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If Cook were out of the picture I do not think it is a given that Mattison would be the Vikings feature RB.

I think it would be a combination of Mattison and Boone in that scenario.

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42 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

If Cook were out of the picture I do not think it is a given that Mattison would be the Vikings feature RB.

I think it would be a combination of Mattison and Boone in that scenario.

I own Mattison in one dynasty league. In that league, the Cook owner offered me Jaylen Samuels for him. Not a chance. If that is where his market sits, I'm happy to sit on him to see if Cook gets hurt again and/or leaves Minnesota after 2020.

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28 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

I own Mattison in one dynasty league. In that league, the Cook owner offered me Jaylen Samuels for him. Not a chance. If that is where his market sits, I'm happy to sit on him to see if Cook gets hurt again and/or leaves Minnesota after 2020.

I like Samuels but you know more about him than I do. 

I am not sure when you got that offer, but I can understand pushing for more, especially with recent news.

The point I was trying to make however is that it may be more of a RBBC if Cook isn't available than people think. Mike Boone is also pretty good.

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41 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

I like Samuels but you know more about him than I do. 

I am not sure when you got that offer, but I can understand pushing for more, especially with recent news.

The point I was trying to make however is that it may be more of a RBBC if Cook isn't available than people think. Mike Boone is also pretty good.

Yes, I probably should have clarified that I understood your point and agree. But I think selling Mattison for Samuels (offered to me today) would be selling low. I'm content to wait it out and expect either greater value in my lineup or via trade at some point.

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8 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

Yes, I probably should have clarified that I understood your point and agree. But I think selling Mattison for Samuels (offered to me today) would be selling low. I'm content to wait it out and expect either greater value in my lineup or via trade at some point.

I hadn't even thought about Samuels as being valued. I dont see him listed by this ADP unless I missed him. I see Anthony McFarland is going at pick 137

Mattison has been going at pick 110

So 18 rookies are being selected ahead of Mattison. Zaxh Moss for example going at pick 107 very close to Mattison here.

I can see valuing Mattison perhaps a bit higher than this ADP. Like maybe around 90 or so?

On the other hand I think his ADP is pretty close to being right. It just gets inflated by the idea of Mattison being a top 10 RB, sans Cook. I do think Mattison could be good with extended role in this offense, and I don't think Kubiak has a history of RBBC, it is more running back by competition and one of them winning out, but Boone is very fast and he played well against Chicago last year after putting up a dud against Green Bay. Boone is very fast, I have some questions about his vision, but if he can get that, he is a freak like McKinnon, Brieda ect who have had good runs in this offense.

David Dodds has Samuels getting 68 carries and 33 receptions. He has Benny Snell getting 69 rushing attempts 5 receptions. Both behind James Conner. Expecting Conner to miss games or cede carries I guess. I have heard some talk of them using Snell more. He has McFarland with 43 carries.

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Rookie QBs must start ASAP; top 5 trench teams; truth about Jameis

Excerpt:

Quote

DALVIN COOK HOLDOUT: Don't cave, Vikings!

I've never witnessed a virtual holdout, but I'm paying close attention to the standoff between Dalvin Cook and the Minnesota Vikings to see if the Pro Bowler shakes up the running back market.

The fourth-year pro reportedly told the Vikings earlier this week that he's logging out of his work Zoom account and shutting down his involvement in all team activities until he receives a "reasonable" contract offer from the team.

While I don't know how much No. 33's absence from virtual meetings will impact the Vikings in the middle of a pandemic that's eliminated the usual OTAs and minicamp practices for all teams, the loss of the versatile back in training camp and beyond would remove the offense's No. 1 playmaker from the lineup and could severely hinder the unit in 2020.

Don't believe me? Just look at the numbers to get a sense of Cook's impact. The Vikings are 12-3 when he finishes with 100-plus scrimmage yards (including the postseason), compared to a 6-9-1 mark when he falls short of the century mark. Cook accounted for 38.1 percent of the team's offensive touches and scored the second-most points (78) on the squad in 2019. After amassing 1,654 scrimmage yards and 13 total touchdowns on the way to earning Pro Bowl honors, Cook was the Vikings' 2019 MVP -- a three-down running back with special traits.

"You can say that about some players in this league, but then you turn the game film on and they come out of the games in certain situations," Vikings offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak explained earlier this offseason, per the team's website. "Dalvin's a great pass protector, understands what's going on scheme-wise on third down as far as picking up blitzes, those types of things.

"He has great hands. I mean, you go back and look at the screens we ran with Dalvin -- he was probably as good as anybody in football doing that. So, I think you've gotta give him the credit. He's an all-around player. He's not a guy who just does this well or that well. He does a lot of things well."

Kubiak certainly knows running backs, based on his history of producing 1,000-yard rushers in his offense. He elevated the likes of Terrell Davis, Clinton Portis and Arian Foster to honor roll status as a play caller, and his impact on Cook's performance as an assistant head coach/offensive advisor in 2019 shouldn't be ignored.

The Vikings' outside-zone scheme perfectly suits the 24-year-old's skill set as a one-cut runner with a combination of speed, quickness, balance and vision. The offensive line operates like a group of elephants on parade, moving defenders off the ball in unison with Cook attacking creases at the line of scrimmage to hit the second level. He tallied 25 runs of 10-plus yards as part of an offense that had the fourth-most rushing attempts in the league last season. Cook's presence on the field also elevated Kirk Cousins' performance. No. 8 posted a 71 percent completion rate and a 16:1 touchdown-to-interception ratio with an average of 8.5 yards per attempt with Cook on the field, per Next Gen Stats, compared to a 66 percent completion rate, 10:5 TD-INT ratio and average of 7.3 yards per attempt without him.

Considering Cook's overall impact, the team has to write a check to keep him the fold, right?

Well, as much as I love Cook's game, I have to point out that he's only played in 31 of the 50 games the Vikings have played (including playoffs) in his three seasons due to various ailments, including a torn ACL (2017), hamstring strains (2018) and a shoulder injury (2019). The durability concerns will make the don't pay a running back crowd cringe at the notion of Cook getting a big payday.

Last season, nine of the NFL's top 10 rushers were playing on their rookie deals and only three of the NFL's 16 1,000-yard rushers (Ezekiel Elliott, Carlos Hyde and Mark Ingram) were not on their original contracts. Given that only two of the 10 running backs with the highest salary cap numbers for 2019 were on playoff teams last season -- the Texans' Lamar Miller and 49ers' Jerick McKinnon -- and that those two both missed the season due to injury, those who are not in favor of forking over major cash to RBs are undoubtedly shouting "No, no, no!" to team management when it comes to considering a long-term deal for Cook.

In Minnesota, their screams might resonate, based on the Vikings' experience with Adrian Peterson. The team inked the star runner to a blockbuster extension in 2011 (worth $85 million over six seasons, per Over The Cap) prior to the final season of his rookie contract. While he was named league MVP in 2012, the team only made the playoffs twice in the next six seasons (failing to win a game in each postseason appearance) with Peterson only playing in one game in 2014 (when he faced child-abuse charges) and three games in 2016 (due to injury).

So, while I respect Cook's game, I believe the Vikings should hold off on meeting his demands at this time. Remember, they can use the franchise tag to keep Cook in the fold in 2021. I know the shrewd business move would hurt his feelings, but his leverage is limited by the more restrictive holdout rules in the collective bargaining agreement that passed this spring. The new agreement not only includes heftier fines for holdouts ($50,000 per day; was previously $40,000), but players failing to show up on the mandatory reporting date for camp would not accrue a season toward free agency. Therefore, if Cook doesn't report at the start of camp, he would give up his chance to reach unrestricted free agency in 2021. Instead, the Vikings would be able to keep him with a restricted free agent tender.

With Cook's injury history in mind, the Vikings should play hardball with their star running back. Although Cook's representatives have reportedly asked for money in the Christian McCaffrey range ($16 million per year), the Vikings could keep Cook for less than that over the next two seasons. He has a base salary of $1.3 million in 2020 on the final year of his rookie deal and the 2020 franchise tender for running backs is valued at $10.2 million (reigning rushing champion Derrick Henry signed his franchise tender with the Titans in April). We won't get into the Vikings' cap situation in 2020 and beyond, but that's another factor in this equation.

Cook certainly deserves an increase in compensation based on his performance, but the Vikings have the leverage right now and a virtual holdout shouldn't prevent them from standing firm on a more team-friendly offer.

 

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On 6/12/2020 at 5:26 AM, Andy Dufresne said:

This is some of the craziest crazy talk I've ever heard

It’s kinda funny how in the bag those guys are for Mattison. I’ve just listened to some of the podcasts and don’t subscribe so may not get the full picture but it seems they advocate drafting certain prospect profiles and weighting draft capital heavily over situation. The argument for Mattison is that he’s a day 2 RB (barely mind you) and the direct backup on a run centric offense. 

That’s fine and I get it, but Mattison as a prospect is a bit sketchy - he has pretty low level athleticism for the NFL, was productive but in a weak conference. One of the more appealing things about him to me is his age actually - he has enough time on his side that there are multiple scenarios where his value could increase.

But overall he seems like kind of a JAG in a great situation so it’s a bit odd to me the enthusiasm of Chad and those other guys about him as a long term play, based on what they seem to look for in players. He doesn’t tick a heap of metric boxes and I’d say he’s not that dynamic on film either. 

I was just thinking about this and comparing it to Darrell Henderson who was also a day 2 pick (a higher one, who cost an additional 3rd to acquire), a better athlete and in a worse but somewhat similar situation at the time he was drafted. I recall them being really down on Henderson and actively avoiding him. Now perhaps that was just due to lack of value (when he was going in the first round of rookie drafts) but it seems a bit inconsistent in terms of process and rationale.

I still think Mattison is a good dynasty target - it’s a cheap gamble on RB2 type production (maybe even RB1 some weeks) if something happens with Cook. But I’d be trying to move him on pretty quickly and I wonder how successful that would be since many league mates may view him as  a JAG who just happened to produce for a few weeks due to opportunity and volume.

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26 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

The NFC North is a weak conference?

I think the facts say otherwise.

Sorry I meant college.

Thinking about it more vs Henderson maybe it’s just a size thing - three down RB profile vs someone who projects more as a complimentary back. 

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