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Official watch thread...... Do we have one? (1 Viewer)

Do you wear a watch?

  • Yes

    Votes: 68 59.6%
  • No

    Votes: 46 40.4%

  • Total voters
    114
I hate to say it—but his appraisal could very well be on the low side.  If that watch is truly basically new old stock, and unpolished and unmolested, 100% complete with full documentation—I wouldn’t be surprised to see that watch fetch $650k-$1million 
And he bought it for $350 through the Navy in the 70s???  

 
Anyone who has that watch knows what they have, especially if they have kept it in a safe deposit box and in excellent shape for so long. Clearly theatrical, imo. 

 
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Anyone who has that watch knows what they have, especially if they have kept it in a safe deposit box and in excellent shape for so long. Clearly theatrical, imo. 
yeah. that guy definitely knew he had a high dollar item on his hands. he went on for the show but still cool to see the thing.

 
yeah. that guy definitely knew he had a high dollar item on his hands. he went on for the show but still cool to see the thing.
Doubt he knew it was that valuable but he probably knew that Daytona’s in top condition were going for serious money. 
 

Though he did say he wore other watches so who knows maybe he is the only hippie alive with a luxury watch collection. 

 
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yeah. that guy definitely knew he had a high dollar item on his hands. he went on for the show but still cool to see the thing.
my dad's wife was given a baseball from the late 1940's and signed by all the great Yankees of the time. it was a ball from an exhibition game in Cleveland that her dad had signed while on his honeymoon. There was a backstory to some of the players on the team that signed it too. I don't remember the details about the players. anyway, her dad had it on his desk for years before deciding to put it in a shoebox. he passed away maybe 10-15 years ago and it was appraised for some ridiculous sum. MLB got wind of it and called to see about having it placed in Cooperstown. I think my dad has it stashed in a safe deposit box, protected, and with a decent insurance policy while they figure out what to do with it.

 
All this staying at home has me looking at watches online.  Think I am going to need to scratch the itch soon...

 
Ok, pulled the trigger on Breitling Top Time 810 mk 2 - watch dates from about 1969.  In vintagechrono market, I think it is an under appreciated model - Take a comparable Heuer or UG in a panda style (let alone a Daytona) and price is exponentially more. Of course never buy a watch for an investment and just if you like it.  Though at this point my watch collection is getting fairly large so may sell some of my watches that have grown in value last few years, which has been a nice benefit of collecting.  

Have liked this watch for years but search was real focused since about April.  Vintage watch game is a bit about patience and study.  Anyway, link to it below. Anyone out there still collecting in these crazy times? 

https://imgur.com/C4mCvHd

 
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When I was like 22 I was into these, but these days I don’t get it. What’s the point of an expensive watch?  They just tell time. You pay so much just to because it has a luxury brand name on it. 
 

And don’t get me wrong, I spend a lot on cars (eg a BMW) but I feel I’m getting much more value for that much more money. What’s the watch getting me?

Not meaning to rag on folks, just curious to hear what the draw is. 

 
When I was like 22 I was into these, but these days I don’t get it. What’s the point of an expensive watch?  They just tell time. You pay so much just to because it has a luxury brand name on it. 
 

And don’t get me wrong, I spend a lot on cars (eg a BMW) but I feel I’m getting much more value for that much more money. What’s the watch getting me?

Not meaning to rag on folks, just curious to hear what the draw is. 
Well you get something that tells time correct at least twice a day.  To be honest, I don't know the exact draw but I do think that some watches are almost works of art and I get pleasure out of collecting them, wearing them and looking at them.  From their designs of the dials and cases to the mechanical aspect of watch are all enjoyable to me.  The history also intrigues me as I started collecting by collecting old military watches.  There is also a lot of joy in the hunt of finding the watch you are looking for in the condition, etc. and it is not a quick/easy process.  If you think it is you are going to get taken advantage of.

To be honest, it is a bit like collecting classic cars - you can obviously get something new that is better.  An Apple watch or your phone is much more reliable and useful then a 50 year old chronograph but there is clear joy that people find in that old watch.  Compare it to cars,  you buy a modern Honda Accord and it is faster, safer and in all ways better then an air-cooled 911 but put them next to each other and everyone will pick the porsche.

Also, not all watches and collecting watches are expensive.  I have expensive ones to ones that I paid around a 100 dollars for.  You don't need to be just in the top end of the game.

Lastly, helps if I liquidated my collection I could probably double the money i have in my watches.  Will that always be true, no but don't feel like I am buring cash collecting them though I have only sold like 1 or 2 watches to a friend and none of my more expensive pieces so maybe I am.  Also, I refuse to buy watches new from an authorized dealer and have ony bought 1 watch from manufacture.  As I basically refuse to pay retail for a watch.   I also have never impacted savings for retirement, kids colleges, etc. for watches.  I just view it as something fun to do with extra cash though clearly a luxury item.

ETA - You probably won't get it and will ripe me apart for it and imagine many others here will but it is what it is.

 
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I agree with both of you.  I have a lot of watches because I love the mechanical and design aspect of them.  Frankly, I'm enthralled with the movements. But, I don't buy at the high end of the market or at retail.  My most expensive watches are a grand.  A lot are in the $100-$500 range.  I collect a lot of a specific movement, the Valjoux 7750, but I also have plenty of Miyota's and Seiko's, especially in the newer watches.  Some of my favorites (and best values IMO) are from upstart watchmakers, even Kickstarter sourced in a couple instances.  As long as it is automatic, has sapphire crystals (Seiko gets the only pass here, but grudgingly), a stainless or better body, and a big crown I'm interested.

 
When I was like 22 I was into these, but these days I don’t get it. What’s the point of an expensive watch?  They just tell time. You pay so much just to because it has a luxury brand name on it. 
 

And don’t get me wrong, I spend a lot on cars (eg a BMW) but I feel I’m getting much more value for that much more money. What’s the watch getting me?

Not meaning to rag on folks, just curious to hear what the draw is. 
Why buy expensive brand name shoes?  Why Ray Bam sunglasses over Walgreens brand?  It’s all just status symbols. 
 

But the thing with really nice watches is they actually hold there value.  Spend $5k, wear it for 3yrs (and take good care if it) and you can resell it for near the same price you originally paid for it. 

 
I agree with both of you.  I have a lot of watches because I love the mechanical and design aspect of them.  Frankly, I'm enthralled with the movements. But, I don't buy at the high end of the market or at retail.  My most expensive watches are a grand.  A lot are in the $100-$500 range.  I collect a lot of a specific movement, the Valjoux 7750, but I also have plenty of Miyota's and Seiko's, especially in the newer watches.  Some of my favorites (and best values IMO) are from upstart watchmakers, even Kickstarter sourced in a couple instances.  As long as it is automatic, has sapphire crystals (Seiko gets the only pass here, but grudgingly), a stainless or better body, and a big crown I'm interested.
Probably the greatest chronograph movement ever developed and did more to save swiss watch making then any other movement.  Great way to focus a collection.  

 
Why buy expensive brand name shoes?  Why Ray Bam sunglasses over Walgreens brand?  It’s all just status symbols. 
 

But the thing with really nice watches is they actually hold there value.  Spend $5k, wear it for 3yrs (and take good care if it) and you can resell it for near the same price you originally paid for it. 
Honestly if I could find Ray Ban style sunglasses with the same quality but without the name I’ll gladly pay less for them. Nobody is looking at my sunglasses and thinking “WOAH look at this guy with real Ray Bans!”

 
Well you get something that tells time correct at least twice a day.  To be honest, I don't know the exact draw but I do think that some watches are almost works of art and I get pleasure out of collecting them, wearing them and looking at them.  From their designs of the dials and cases to the mechanical aspect of watch are all enjoyable to me.  The history also intrigues me as I started collecting by collecting old military watches.  There is also a lot of joy in the hunt of finding the watch you are looking for in the condition, etc. and it is not a quick/easy process.  If you think it is you are going to get taken advantage of.

To be honest, it is a bit like collecting classic cars - you can obviously get something new that is better.  An Apple watch or your phone is much more reliable and useful then a 50 year old chronograph but there is clear joy that people find in that old watch.  Compare it to cars,  you buy a modern Honda Accord and it is faster, safer and in all ways better then an air-cooled 911 but put them next to each other and everyone will pick the porsche.

Also, not all watches and collecting watches are expensive.  I have expensive ones to ones that I paid around a 100 dollars for.  You don't need to be just in the top end of the game.

Lastly, helps if I liquidated my collection I could probably double the money i have in my watches.  Will that always be true, no but don't feel like I am buring cash collecting them though I have only sold like 1 or 2 watches to a friend and none of my more expensive pieces so maybe I am.  Also, I refuse to buy watches new from an authorized dealer and have ony bought 1 watch from manufacture.  As I basically refuse to pay retail for a watch.   I also have never impacted savings for retirement, kids colleges, etc. for watches.  I just view it as something fun to do with extra cash though clearly a luxury item.

ETA - You probably won't get it and will ripe me apart for it and imagine many others here will but it is what it is.
Nerding out about collecting them as you describe makes good sense to me.  Same as collecting anything, cars, coins etc. I get that. I’m thinking of some schlub being like “check me out in my real legit Rolex.”  I just don’t get it. Granted when I got my first law job I went out and bought an expensive Tag. Thought it was so cool and big time. I cringe at the thought today. Amazon has some nice looking watches for a hundred bucks. But I’m not into the collecting thing. 

 
When I was like 22 I was into these, but these days I don’t get it. What’s the point of an expensive watch?  They just tell time. You pay so much just to because it has a luxury brand name on it. 
 

And don’t get me wrong, I spend a lot on cars (eg a BMW) but I feel I’m getting much more value for that much more money. What’s the watch getting me?

Not meaning to rag on folks, just curious to hear what the draw is. 
How much do you think a $100k BMW will be worth in 10 years? Maybe 10-20k?  Go back ten years and see what a Rolex Submariner or Daytona costed then versus what it's worth now.   You are far better off buying certain expensive watches that historically gain or hold value over time versus buying an expensive car.  The car is a far greater depreciating asset.   I assure you that its a far better investment to purchase a $50k car plus a couple nice watches than it is to buy a $100k car.  Don't kid yourself--you buy nice cars because they are status symbols and they are well designed pieces of machinery.  A nice watch is a status symbol, it's mechanical artwork, and if you pick them wisely they are the opposite of cars in the sense that they are not a virtually guaranteed depreciating asset. 

 
Nerding out about collecting them as you describe makes good sense to me.  Same as collecting anything, cars, coins etc. I get that. I’m thinking of some schlub being like “check me out in my real legit Rolex.”  I just don’t get it. Granted when I got my first law job I went out and bought an expensive Tag. Thought it was so cool and big time. I cringe at the thought today. Amazon has some nice looking watches for a hundred bucks. But I’m not into the collecting thing. 
I don't get that guy either and he is just trying to show off wealth.  I once saw someone at a bar with a new model Rolex GMT and said to him nice GMT and he responded that no it was a Rolex.  What a ####### ##### to not know what he spent at least 10k on.

Also, I am not a Rolex guy and I don't get Rolex watches generally and don't own any of them.  It might be a bit of the above as think a lot of folks who own them are just show offs and jerks.  Also, Rolexs all seem to me to be basically two watches with some variations, which admittedly are iconic designs - the submariner and the day date.  I know that is over generalization but that is what they look like to me.  I also hate the focus on such minor differences on some of these watches (e.g if Submariner is meters first or red writing, etc.).  The design is all basically the same across their lineup and then to focus on tiny differences within a model seems stupid to me.  I do love Omega Speedmasters which does have some of that.  I do realize that as the vintage Rolex market goes so does the rest of the vintage market and I am probably in minority of collectors on my take on Rolex.   My focus is on other classic Swiss brands (mostly Chronos), military watches and Hamiltons, which was the great american watch company and is now Swiss owned.  

As for TagHeuer, I love vintage Heuer and the connection with racing and cars and I own two of them.  Honestly, my favorite vintage watch brand is Heuer and since Tag bought them they have never been the same.  Though I think some of their newer designs (especially vintage inspired stuff is an improvement).  

 
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Nerding out about collecting them as you describe makes good sense to me.  Same as collecting anything, cars, coins etc. I get that. I’m thinking of some schlub being like “check me out in my real legit Rolex.”  I just don’t get it. Granted when I got my first law job I went out and bought an expensive Tag. Thought it was so cool and big time. I cringe at the thought today. Amazon has some nice looking watches for a hundred bucks. But I’m not into the collecting thing. 
Also, I bet you could sell that old Tag if you still had it and never wear it (hope you kept the box and papers it came with though).

 
Need some help, like now/today.

Friend's wife called and wants to surprise him with a Rolex GMT for their 20th anny.  They live in the mountains and it's not something she can just go and get.  I live and the city and as such was able to find them a similar one for their son last year with a jeweler nearby for like 13K.  Used, but with all the paperwork stuff.  Legit, authorized dealer.

I guess Rolex's are in demand and prices are high but that's beside the point, they can afford whatever.  So the question I have is $23,500 (that's as low as I could get the guy, no taxes, etc) out the door a decent price for one made/shipped on 10/31/21?  Pepsi model.  He had the Batman model (also new) for $20,300, btw.  

It's brand new, certified, in the box, with the 5-year warranty, blah, blah, blah... So is that a fair deal or should I poke around some more?  If it's within a couple hundred, it doesn't matter, just want to make sure it's not some screw job.

Thanks!

 
Need some help, like now/today.

Friend's wife called and wants to surprise him with a Rolex GMT for their 20th anny.  They live in the mountains and it's not something she can just go and get.  I live and the city and as such was able to find them a similar one for their son last year with a jeweler nearby for like 13K.  Used, but with all the paperwork stuff.  Legit, authorized dealer.

I guess Rolex's are in demand and prices are high but that's beside the point, they can afford whatever.  So the question I have is $23,500 (that's as low as I could get the guy, no taxes, etc) out the door a decent price for one made/shipped on 10/31/21?  Pepsi model.  He had the Batman model (also new) for $20,300, btw.  

It's brand new, certified, in the box, with the 5-year warranty, blah, blah, blah... So is that a fair deal or should I poke around some more?  If it's within a couple hundred, it doesn't matter, just want to make sure it's not some screw job.

Thanks!


Rolex sport watch market is beyond crazy at this point.  Think MSRP on that watch is just under 10K but it is basically impossible to buy that watch from an AD at MSRP.  GMT demand is high but the pepsi one is through the roof.   I am not a Rolex collector and don't any but found these two listings online in about 5 minutes so doesn't seem like that price is out of line from what it costs to buy them gray market.  Of course that doesn't change the total equation that is an absurd price.

https://aiswatches.com/rolex-gmt-master-ii-126710blro-red-blue-pepsi-ceramic-bezel-box-papers/

https://www.ocwatchguy.com/products/6376

 
Rolex sport watch market is beyond crazy at this point.  Think MSRP on that watch is just under 10K but it is basically impossible to buy that watch from an AD at MSRP.  GMT demand is high but the pepsi one is through the roof.   I am not a Rolex collector and don't any but found these two listings online in about 5 minutes so doesn't seem like that price is out of line from what it costs to buy them gray market.  Of course that doesn't change the total equation that is an absurd price.

https://aiswatches.com/rolex-gmt-master-ii-126710blro-red-blue-pepsi-ceramic-bezel-box-papers/

https://www.ocwatchguy.com/products/6376
I had that second watch on my hand yesterday, lol.  No joke.

He had the batman one as well (black and blue), and I liked it better actually, for over $3K less!  Exact same watch.  Nuts.

What are your thoughts on when the watch was delivered or whatever, like it's "born-on" date.  How important is the year exactly?  And how does one color, on an inlay/bezel no less, change its value so much?  Hell, you can buy a different colored inlay for like $500.  I actually did it with mine like 10 years ago (it's about 30 years old now).

Like, why not just buy the Batman for 20K and switch out the inlay/bezel for 500 bucks?  Saves you $2700 right there.

 
Harry Frogfish said:
I had that second watch on my hand yesterday, lol.  No joke.

He had the batman one as well (black and blue), and I liked it better actually, for over $3K less!  Exact same watch.  Nuts.

What are your thoughts on when the watch was delivered or whatever, like it's "born-on" date.  How important is the year exactly?  And how does one color, on an inlay/bezel no less, change its value so much?  Hell, you can buy a different colored inlay for like $500.  I actually did it with mine like 10 years ago (it's about 30 years old now).

Like, why not just buy the Batman for 20K and switch out the inlay/bezel for 500 bucks?  Saves you $2700 right there.


They are actually different references so if you swapped the bezels you probably would void the warranty.  You would also need to hang on to the old one if you ever sold it as a buyer would want the full watch matching the reference.  The price has also gone up in last 10 years or so and think now a days a ceremic bezel would be around $1,000 and you would need a watch maker with a Rolex parts account to order it and do the swap as I doubt an AD or Rolex service center would do that even though they used to.  Rolex has been limiting the number of independent watch makers that have parts accounts and think only a handful of them are left in the US so finding one would not be easy as it was 10 years ago.  Though pretty sure LA Watch Works has one and if you were in OCwatchguys store that is probably not too far from you.  

The reason the "Pepsi" GMT is more popular is that it matches the original watch going back to the 50s and when people think Rolex GMT Master they think of the watch with Pepsi bezel.  There are also less of them available because when Rolex initially did the new GMT reference a few years ago they only offered the Pepsi bezel on the white gold watch.  That was a 40K watch.  On the steel watch you could only get the batman bezel.  That lasted a few years and then they released the steel one with Pepsi bezel so they have several years of production of the new watch with just the batman bezel and lots of people who were held back on the gold one have been interested in the steel one.  It is much easier to get a used batman as a result of those extra years of production so that keeps prices down on the newer ones.  

As to your "born-on" date on new watches, I personally don't care about it at all.  I mostly own vintage watches though have a few modern watches which I almost always buy second hand and below MSRP.  My modern watches I wear when I know I might be doing an activity where having on a 50 or 60 year old watch isn't the best idea.  Not sure if Rolex collectors care about that stuff as I am into Rolex and especially not into their modern watches and I would not buy a new Rolex Stainless Steel sports watch (unless I could buy it at MSRP and flip it for an immediate profit).  I personally don't like the look of them with the modern ceremic bezels and lume blots surronded by gold.  

Lastly, would love to see a pic of your watch if you don't mind posting.  Since I do love old watches, a 30 year old GMT is something I would love to see.  Those are the type of watches I am into and buy.  Though I never got into vintage Rolex though I wish I had bought a 1016 a few years ago as those prices have gone through the roof and I always liked the look of the explorer dial.  

 
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Harry Frogfish said:
Need some help, like now/today.

Friend's wife called and wants to surprise him with a Rolex GMT for their 20th anny.  They live in the mountains and it's not something she can just go and get.  I live and the city and as such was able to find them a similar one for their son last year with a jeweler nearby for like 13K.  Used, but with all the paperwork stuff.  Legit, authorized dealer.

I guess Rolex's are in demand and prices are high but that's beside the point, they can afford whatever.  So the question I have is $23,500 (that's as low as I could get the guy, no taxes, etc) out the door a decent price for one made/shipped on 10/31/21?  Pepsi model.  He had the Batman model (also new) for $20,300, btw.  

It's brand new, certified, in the box, with the 5-year warranty, blah, blah, blah... So is that a fair deal or should I poke around some more?  If it's within a couple hundred, it doesn't matter, just want to make sure it's not some screw job.

Thanks!
Those prices are pretty in line with the current market and are in my opinion very fair.  You have to remember that MSRP means nothing right now. MSRP for Rolex sports models are privileges that are mainly reserved for the best customers of authorized dealers.  If you spend hundreds of thousands of dollars a year at an authorized dealer—you’ll probably get first crack at a submariner, gmt or Daytona at MSRP as their way “thanking you” for your business. While the prices on the secondary market seem outrageous—you have to remember something.  Brokers that are lucky enough to have gmts/submariners/Daytonas are not super motivated to sell them.  Cash is guaranteed to lose value and watches like these are basically a lock to gain value.   Secondly—the availability and ability to replace these kinds of watches is getting tougher every day. If a broker sells a gmt even at 20k or 23k—he’s going to have a really hard time getting another one to replace it with in his inventory.  Because of that—the brokers are in a position to where unless they get the price they want—they’d rather keep the watch—because they know that by waiting—they can most likely sell the watch for even more money. 

In regards to switching out the bezel inserts—while you might achieve the look you want on the watch—you cannot make a true “Pepsi” or “Batman” by doing so.  They have different reference models and Rolex knows through the serial number what variation your watch was when it left the factory.  It’s not something I recommend doing and it could possibly effect your warranty.  

 
Those prices are pretty in line with the current market and are in my opinion very fair.  You have to remember that MSRP means nothing right now. MSRP for Rolex sports models are privileges that are mainly reserved for the best customers of authorized dealers.  If you spend hundreds of thousands of dollars a year at an authorized dealer—you’ll probably get first crack at a submariner, gmt or Daytona at MSRP as their way “thanking you” for your business. While the prices on the secondary market seem outrageous—you have to remember something.  Brokers that are lucky enough to have gmts/submariners/Daytonas are not super motivated to sell them.  Cash is guaranteed to lose value and watches like these are basically a lock to gain value.   Secondly—the availability and ability to replace these kinds of watches is getting tougher every day. If a broker sells a gmt even at 20k or 23k—he’s going to have a really hard time getting another one to replace it with in his inventory.  Because of that—the brokers are in a position to where unless they get the price they want—they’d rather keep the watch—because they know that by waiting—they can most likely sell the watch for even more money. 

In regards to switching out the bezel inserts—while you might achieve the look you want on the watch—you cannot make a true “Pepsi” or “Batman” by doing so.  They have different reference models and Rolex knows through the serial number what variation your watch was when it left the factory.  It’s not something I recommend doing and it could possibly effect your warranty.  


Disagree with this.  They want to sell them as soon as they can.  Keeping a watch in inventory is an expense and the prices for new models has been fairly stable.  Though these guys have their hands on the pulse of the market and know they will get their price on a model like this  and my experience is dealers will only play with their price a very small amount if it is a hot model since they know they can move it fast.   

 
Disagree with this.  They want to sell them as soon as they can.  Keeping a watch in inventory is an expense and the prices for new models has been fairly stable.  Though these guys have their hands on the pulse of the market and know they will get their price on a model like this  and my experience is dealers will only play with their price a very small amount if it is a hot model since they know they can move it fast.   
They want to sell them as long as they get the price that they want or are asking for them.  If brokers really wanted to rid themselves of professional model Rolexes as soon as possible—they would all be underpricing each other and the competition would cause prices to drop. It’s not like covid or supply chain issues changed this dynamic with Rolexes. The Rolex market was heating up before any of this happened—and covid and supply chains just magnified the price increases. Brokers know that every week that we get closer to the holidays—that demand will go up for these watches.  Ask any reputable broker to give you 5 or 10 percent off on a 23k GMT and they will laugh you off in a split second.    The other thing to remember is that Rolex is not a publicly traded company. It’s privately owned and they have no obligation to shareholders.  This is the reason why they were able to voluntarily pinch supply even before covid.  That policy effectively made them (along with maybe 3-4 other brands—audemars, Patek, and Richard Mille) pretty much the most relevant of the fine watches on the planet.  Ever since Rolex cancelled parts accounts, pinched supply on watches—-they have gained relevance and desirability.  The publicly traded brands do not have that luxury.  Their shareholders care about number of pieces sold and quarterly profits—and thats why they are lagging behind to Rolex in relevance, desirability and in regards to value retention.   This Rolex sports model thing is not a “hot model” flash in the pan kind of scenario.  As long as Rolex is privately owned and limits the supply on these watches (and there is no reason to think they will abandon the policy that has put them in front of the pack)—prices will remain strong—and brokers will hold onto them unless they get the prices they want. 

 
 Lastly, would love to see a pic of your watch if you don't mind posting.  Since I do love old watches, a 30 year old GMT is something I would love to see.  Those are the type of watches I am into and buy.  Though I never got into vintage Rolex though I wish I had bought a 1016 a few years ago as those prices have gone through the roof and I always liked the look of the explorer dial.  


Of course I will send you a pic of mine.  Send me your email.  You talked me out of trading up to the Batman, he was only giving me 12K for mine, low imo, and charging 20K for the new Batman, which was not much of a drop.  And I figured mine was worth closer to 15K.

As for the new Pepsi, they are going to grab it, might as well, all things considered.

Thanks for all the info, from all you guys, appreciate it.

 
They want to sell them as long as they get the price that they want or are asking for them.  If brokers really wanted to rid themselves of professional model Rolexes as soon as possible—they would all be underpricing each other and the competition would cause prices to drop. It’s not like covid or supply chain issues changed this dynamic with Rolexes. The Rolex market was heating up before any of this happened—and covid and supply chains just magnified the price increases. Brokers know that every week that we get closer to the holidays—that demand will go up for these watches.  Ask any reputable broker to give you 5 or 10 percent off on a 23k GMT and they will laugh you off in a split second.    The other thing to remember is that Rolex is not a publicly traded company. It’s privately owned and they have no obligation to shareholders.  This is the reason why they were able to voluntarily pinch supply even before covid.  That policy effectively made them (along with maybe 3-4 other brands—audemars, Patek, and Richard Mille) pretty much the most relevant of the fine watches on the planet.  Ever since Rolex cancelled parts accounts, pinched supply on watches—-they have gained relevance and desirability.  The publicly traded brands do not have that luxury.  Their shareholders care about number of pieces sold and quarterly profits—and thats why they are lagging behind to Rolex in relevance, desirability and in regards to value retention.   This Rolex sports model thing is not a “hot model” flash in the pan kind of scenario.  As long as Rolex is privately owned and limits the supply on these watches (and there is no reason to think they will abandon the policy that has put them in front of the pack)—prices will remain strong—and brokers will hold onto them unless they get the prices they want. 


Not sure we are really saying anything differently.  Most dealers don't give much of discount on in demand watches but they do want to sell them fast.  Also, I am well aware of the watch market and what is going on and specifically what Rolex is doing on purpose.  However, these brand new models have not really been appreciating even during Covid.  A brand new GMT has been around the same price for last several years in grey market (other than when Aurel Bacs convinces some stupid Oil Sheik to buy one for show at one of his auctions).  They also sell fast at these prices. However, you don't see someone like OCWatchGuy or Bob'sWatches sitting on them trying to sell them at $30k.

The vintage market has moved probably even more than the new watch market.  ####, I have even taken advantage of it in selling some of my watches for much more than I paid.  You look at my posts from a year ago and I said I only sold one or two watches.  Well that has changed as I have sold a few more and used that money to buy new things. 

Honestly, the thing that is most suprising is very inexpensive vintage watches have moved on a percentage basis much more than expensive watches.  Something I could have bought all day for $300 dollars 2 years ago and had been sitting at that price since I really started seriously collecting about 5 years ago all of sudden is selling at $600 dollars.  It is pretty strange/crazy.  

 
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Loving the insight on all this watch stuff from you guys, thanks.

SO glad I didn't "upgrade" to the brand new, in-box, batman, in exchange for my 30 year old Pepsi.  That would've been a big mistake it seems, and not just money out of pocket either (@ 8K).  Thanks!

I will say, my first "diver's watch" was some cheap Seiko my Dad got me at a Thrifty store back in the day, for my birthday.  And ever since, I've loved having a watch on my wrist.  Such a fond memory.  I think it's things like that which make collectors of something "unnecessary" never go away. 👍  Like old cars and ####...

 
Loving the insight on all this watch stuff from you guys, thanks.

SO glad I didn't "upgrade" to the brand new, in-box, batman, in exchange for my 30 year old Pepsi.  That would've been a big mistake it seems, and not just money out of pocket either (@ 8K).  Thanks!

I will say, my first "diver's watch" was some cheap Seiko my Dad got me at a Thrifty store back in the day, for my birthday.  And ever since, I've loved having a watch on my wrist.  Such a fond memory.  I think it's things like that which make collectors of something "unnecessary" never go away. 👍  Like old cars and ####...
Just a heads up—that your cheap Seiko diver from back in the day could be worth some nice money. I’ve been collecting vintage Seiko’s for a while.  They have really gone up in value.  If the diver you have is a nice condition SKX with a nice natural patina—you could be looking at a watch that is worth 400-800 bucks. 

 
Thanks a lot JV, but that Seiko is long gone, unfortunately . . . really wish I still had it.

Big thanks to both you and Redwes25 for all the insight, appreciate it.

BTW, I think mine is worth more than the 11.5 K the dealer was asking for (on a trade-in), btw.  That part seemed a little car salesman-y, for lack of a better word.  I had no idea "Pepsi" was worth more than Coke, lol.  BTW, the original inlay on mine was Coke (red and black).  I bought the Pepsi inlay from an authorized dealer/jeweler like 15 years ago, after the original had faded to pink, basically.  Hope I still have it somewhere, from the sound of things, that matters.

Does the fact that I switched out the inlay have anything to do with its value?

 
I have a Rolex from 1948 that my grandfather bought on an ocean liner going from India to England.  It's a boy's version but it was what he could afford.  My father passed it on to me, and my son will get it at some point--he;s already worn it on special occasions.  It's not super valuable from a monetary standpoint but has a ton of sentimental value.

I also have two modern Rolex Daytonas which I purchased at MSRP.  Black face ceramic bezel and white face previous generation.  I was offered a platinum ~15-months ago but declined because it had diamonds on the face and was a little too blindly for me.

 
Thanks a lot JV, but that Seiko is long gone, unfortunately . . . really wish I still had it.

Big thanks to both you and Redwes25 for all the insight, appreciate it.

BTW, I think mine is worth more than the 11.5 K the dealer was asking for (on a trade-in), btw.  That part seemed a little car salesman-y, for lack of a better word.  I had no idea "Pepsi" was worth more than Coke, lol.  BTW, the original inlay on mine was Coke (red and black).  I bought the Pepsi inlay from an authorized dealer/jeweler like 15 years ago, after the original had faded to pink, basically.  Hope I still have it somewhere, from the sound of things, that matters.

Does the fact that I switched out the inlay have anything to do with its value?


Collectors care about originality so they will want an original bezel over a watch with a replacement bezel .  Also, depending on how the bezel faded as you describe it could actually make it more valuable since collectors like "patina" which is really just damage that looks nice or is unique.  

Other things that could impact value, did you ever have the watch polished or the lume plots modified.  Typically if you send it in for service at an Authorized Dealer they will try and "fix" the watch to bring it up to spec but that could actually hurt the value.  

 
Thanks a lot JV, but that Seiko is long gone, unfortunately . . . really wish I still had it.

Big thanks to both you and Redwes25 for all the insight, appreciate it.

BTW, I think mine is worth more than the 11.5 K the dealer was asking for (on a trade-in), btw.  That part seemed a little car salesman-y, for lack of a better word.  I had no idea "Pepsi" was worth more than Coke, lol.  BTW, the original inlay on mine was Coke (red and black).  I bought the Pepsi inlay from an authorized dealer/jeweler like 15 years ago, after the original had faded to pink, basically.  Hope I still have it somewhere, from the sound of things, that matters.

Does the fact that I switched out the inlay have anything to do with its value?
What @Redwes25 said is exactly right. When it comes to the vintage/pre-ownwed Rolex models—literally EVERYTHING has an impact on value.  The less “molested” a watch is—the more value it commands with purist collectors.   Any polishing, any replacement parts, condition issues, good patina versus bad/ugly patina, any refinishing or refreshing of the lume,  presence or lack of presence of box and papers,, service records (or lack of them), any provenance attached to the watch—-all are factors in determining value.  With that said...11500 trade in for a vintage coke or Pepsi that is effectively at least all Rolex parts does seem pretty low—but you also have to understand that brokers/dealers cannot sell watches “as is”. If your watch hasn’t been serviced by somebody reputable in the past 4-5 years—that dealer will have to get the watch properly serviced so that he can sell it with a warranty and insure to any potential buyer that it’s been gone through and inspected by a professional.  Proper servicing of vintage Rolexes can easily cost as little as 800 bucks and go up over 1500 dollars if some of the parts are worn out and need replacement.  On top of that—the dealer needs to turn a profit as well after overhead is accounted for.  Overhead in the world of jewelry and watches can easily account for 10-20% on each item—so keep that in mind. 

 
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What @Redwes25 said is exactly right. When it comes to the vintage/pre-ownwed Rolex models—literally EVERYTHING has an impact on value.  The less “molested” a watch is—the more value it commands with purist collectors.   Any polishing, any replacement parts, condition issues, good patina versus bad/ugly patina, any refinishing or refreshing of the lume,  presence or lack of presence of box and papers,, service records (or lack of them), any provenance attached to the watch—-all are factors in determining value.  With that said...11500 trade in for a vintage coke or Pepsi that is effectively at least all Rolex parts does seem pretty low—but you also have to understand that brokers/dealers cannot sell watches “as is”. If your watch hasn’t been serviced by somebody reputable in the past 4-5 years—that dealer will have to get the watch properly serviced so that he can sell it with a warranty and insure to any potential buyer that it’s been gone through and inspected by a professional.  Proper servicing of vintage Rolexes can easily cost as little as 800 bucks and go up over 1500 dollars if some of the parts are worn out and need replacement.  On top of that—the dealer needs to turn a profit as well after overhead is accounted for.  Overhead in the world of jewelry and watches can easily account for 10-20% on each item—so keep that in mind. 


This is all very true.  Depending on the dealer they also may not service the watch, etc. to cut costs but they won't pass that along to the seller!  My experience is dealers pay a bit less then private buyers due to higher costs, etc.   Of course private sales are much harder for an inexperienced seller that isn't known to the market (e.g. have you sold before and have references, etc.).  

 
Rolex sport watch market is beyond crazy at this point.  Think MSRP on that watch is just under 10K but it is basically impossible to buy that watch from an AD at MSRP.  GMT demand is high but the pepsi one is through the roof.   I am not a Rolex collector and don't any but found these two listings online in about 5 minutes so doesn't seem like that price is out of line from what it costs to buy them gray market.  Of course that doesn't change the total equation that is an absurd price.

https://aiswatches.com/rolex-gmt-master-ii-126710blro-red-blue-pepsi-ceramic-bezel-box-papers/

https://www.ocwatchguy.com/products/6376


Just a heads up—that your cheap Seiko diver from back in the day could be worth some nice money. I’ve been collecting vintage Seiko’s for a while.  They have really gone up in value.  If the diver you have is a nice condition SKX with a nice natural patina—you could be looking at a watch that is worth 400-800 bucks. 


Hi Red and JVD, I'm just bumping those to get your attention in hopes of answering my shattered crystal question (1991 GMT II) I posted here on Monday.

I got a quote over the phone for like $850-$950 from an Authorized Dealer I trust, but that includes servicing, which I had done less than 2 years ago (would rather not pay for that so soon again, it's like $750).  He said he needs to see if there's crystal inside, obviously, to know the extent of it.  If there is none, it would only be like $200.

I feel like they are going to say it needs to be serviced no matter what, just to be on the safe side.  How in the world could I ascertain if that's necessary?  It's cracked almost across the entire face.  It fell off a bed onto a hard floor.  It looks like it hit on the corner or edge/side of the crystal perfectly for this to happen.  I've been pretty hard on this watch for 28 years and never so much as a scratch, btw. 

The crack looks like a mini "peace" sign, lol -- two cracks by a little shattered edge, leading into a larger crack across the screen.  There was a tiny bit of shard crystal that came off on the outside, btw.

Anyway, are those quotes acceptable and is there anything else I can or should do?  I did call one other dealer -- OC Watch Guy (who we bought the Rolex we were talking about upthread from) -- and am waiting to hear back from him.

Thanks, again.

 
Hi Red and JVD, I'm just bumping those to get your attention in hopes of answering my shattered crystal question (1991 GMT II) I posted here on Monday.

I got a quote over the phone for like $850-$950 from an Authorized Dealer I trust, but that includes servicing, which I had done less than 2 years ago (would rather not pay for that so soon again, it's like $750).  He said he needs to see if there's crystal inside, obviously, to know the extent of it.  If there is none, it would only be like $200.

I feel like they are going to say it needs to be serviced no matter what, just to be on the safe side.  How in the world could I ascertain if that's necessary?  It's cracked almost across the entire face.  It fell off a bed onto a hard floor.  It looks like it hit on the corner or edge/side of the crystal perfectly for this to happen.  I've been pretty hard on this watch for 28 years and never so much as a scratch, btw. 

The crack looks like a mini "peace" sign, lol -- two cracks by a little shattered edge, leading into a larger crack across the screen.  There was a tiny bit of shard crystal that came off on the outside, btw.

Anyway, are those quotes acceptable and is there anything else I can or should do?  I did call one other dealer -- OC Watch Guy (who we bought the Rolex we were talking about upthread from) -- and am waiting to hear back from him.

Thanks, again.


Well that sucks.  Everything with Rolex is expensive so I am not surprised by the quote. 

You in LA right?  You could try these guys and get a quote from them - http://www.lawatchworks.com/

 
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I'm cheap with watches. 

Got this Citizen EcoDrive from Nordstrom Rack on a Slickdeals listing for $99 a while back and love it. 

Apparently it looks like an Omega from a bit away, get asked about it every now and again. I just laugh and say its a hundred dollar Citizen :lol:  


Wear what you want/like is what I say so glad you like it and enjoy it.  Would just add that there are lot of great watches out there for a little more than that which I think are awesome but if that thing makes you happy keep enjoying it.

P.S. as a serious Omega collector that thing is nothing like any Omega and the comparison makes my head hurt.  

 
Hi Red and JVD, I'm just bumping those to get your attention in hopes of answering my shattered crystal question (1991 GMT II) I posted here on Monday.

I got a quote over the phone for like $850-$950 from an Authorized Dealer I trust, but that includes servicing, which I had done less than 2 years ago (would rather not pay for that so soon again, it's like $750).  He said he needs to see if there's crystal inside, obviously, to know the extent of it.  If there is none, it would only be like $200.

I feel like they are going to say it needs to be serviced no matter what, just to be on the safe side.  How in the world could I ascertain if that's necessary?  It's cracked almost across the entire face.  It fell off a bed onto a hard floor.  It looks like it hit on the corner or edge/side of the crystal perfectly for this to happen.  I've been pretty hard on this watch for 28 years and never so much as a scratch, btw. 

The crack looks like a mini "peace" sign, lol -- two cracks by a little shattered edge, leading into a larger crack across the screen.  There was a tiny bit of shard crystal that came off on the outside, btw.

Anyway, are those quotes acceptable and is there anything else I can or should do?  I did call one other dealer -- OC Watch Guy (who we bought the Rolex we were talking about upthread from) -- and am waiting to hear back from him.

Thanks, again.
$850-950 for a proper Rolex servicing and a sapphire crystal is very fair.  Most professional watchmakers—and even Rolex themselves would force you to do a full servicing in order to replace the crystal.  A watch from 1991 is going to have a sapphire crystal—which is very resistant to scratches. For one to crack a sapphire crystal—a decent amount of force is required for that to happen.  Often times—when a sapphire crystal cracks/breaks/chips—tiny fragments of the crystal fall onto the dial of the watch and can go into where the date wheel is.  These fragments can damage and jam gears—and the only true and proper way to inspect this is to take apart the movement.  Once you take apart a movement—you have to re-assemble, re-calibrate, and re-lubricate it—which is basically a lot of what a servicing is.  A watchmaker that only replaces your crystal without inspecting the rest of your movement is effectively not thoroughly checking things out.  You have to remember that while a watchmaker can test things like amplitude and the timing ratings—a small fragment of crystal floating around in your movement  could cause intermittent problems that would not show up on those types of tests. 

In regards to LA watchworks that @Redwes25  mentioned—I know Beau  personally.  He’s a true Rolex savant as well as being a really  fine gentleman. They have a nice crew there and while their prices aren’t cheap—they are good for the quality of work and expertise that you are getting.  Even the rest of their staff (Edvi, Dalton and the rest of the gang) are super cool.  

 
Wear what you want/like is what I say so glad you like it and enjoy it.  Would just add that there are lot of great watches out there for a little more than that which I think are awesome but if that thing makes you happy keep enjoying it.

P.S. as a serious Omega collector that thing is nothing like any Omega and the comparison makes my head hurt.  
If you are a serious Omega collector—I might have something for you. I’m considering selling my new old stock stainless steel Omega Speedmaster broad arrow chronograph 44mm.  Its still wrapped in plastic with box and papers.  The cardboard outer box does have some scarring and some staining though.  If you are interested—message me and I can email you some pics. 

 
$850-950 for a proper Rolex servicing and a sapphire crystal is very fair.  Most professional watchmakers—and even Rolex themselves would force you to do a full servicing in order to replace the crystal.  A watch from 1991 is going to have a sapphire crystal—which is very resistant to scratches. For one to crack a sapphire crystal—a decent amount of force is required for that to happen.  Often times—when a sapphire crystal cracks/breaks/chips—tiny fragments of the crystal fall onto the dial of the watch and can go into where the date wheel is.  These fragments can damage and jam gears—and the only true and proper way to inspect this is to take apart the movement.  Once you take apart a movement—you have to re-assemble, re-calibrate, and re-lubricate it—which is basically a lot of what a servicing is.  A watchmaker that only replaces your crystal without inspecting the rest of your movement is effectively not thoroughly checking things out.  You have to remember that while a watchmaker can test things like amplitude and the timing ratings—a small fragment of crystal floating around in your movement  could cause intermittent problems that would not show up on those types of tests. 

In regards to LA watchworks that @Redwes25  mentioned—I know Beau  personally.  He’s a true Rolex savant as well as being a really  fine gentleman. They have a nice crew there and while their prices aren’t cheap—they are good for the quality of work and expertise that you are getting.  Even the rest of their staff (Edvi, Dalton and the rest of the gang) are super cool.  


Thanks for getting back to me, I appreciate it.  Since I had it serviced within the last two years, this doesn't fall within that warranty would it?  I don't see how it would but might as well ask.

The store I'm going to has been in business over 50 years (family run) and I really feel like I can trust them and I also like to give a small mom and pop shop business.  They barely made it through the pandemic.

As for the force, it literally just fell / dropped from only 3 feet, off a bed, but it must've hit just right on the edge of the crystal first.  BTW, are there different types of crystal replacement I should know about?

Oh, and I'm thinking about switching out inlays while I'm at it -- from Pepsi to Batman. Any reason not to?  My Pepsi inlay is pretty faded and I liked the blue and black one I saw at the store recently.  I would keep the Pepsi inlay if/when I feel like switching back.  Also, the bezel doesn't twist as easily as it should, even after the last servicing.  It's much harder to turn than that new one we bought.  Any way to have them fix that or is that just age?

Thank you, again.

 
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