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​ 🏛️ ​Official Supreme Court nomination thread - Amy Coney Barrett

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2 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

Except the list is 65 women who knew him in high school.

What's the other competing story here?  From what I've read, there were no Senate Democrats other than Feinstein who knew about this allegation, so I'm not sure how Republicans were supposed to know about it ahead of time.  This is something that came out nowhere, not something that's been following Kavanaugh around all this time.  It seems a lot more plausible to me that Republicans had their PR ducks in a row -- it would have been professional malpractice not to.

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2 hours ago, Sand said:

Well, I guess that could be the difference, though I doubt it's admissible in a court of law.

 

I went to an all boys HS and I sure as heck didn't know 65 girls.  :kicksrock:

 

 

Yeah.  I went to a coed high school, most of my friends were girls, and if 65 women step forward and say they knew enough about me then to attest to my character, at least 50 are lying. 

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2 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Well, it's no longer innuendo so the point is moot anyway.  I have nothing in particular against Feinstein otherwise.

She didn't extend innuendo in the first place, is I think everyone's point.

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14 minutes ago, Sheriff Bart said:

So the guy that was implicated in helping him, allegedly, rape a woman denied it?  Case closed.

No, he didn't deny it.  He said he didn't recall anything about that.

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1 hour ago, CletiusMaximus said:

Henry is making a semantic distinction - state criminal codes typically use the terms "assault" and "sexual assault" rather than "rape."  There are usually at least 3 or 4 different degrees of sexual assault, depending on the nature/extent of the acts. The term "rape" is colloquial, and isn't typically used in state criminal statutes.

Right. Which is why Ivan trying to talk about the "legal distinction" between "rape and attempted rape" isn't a worthwhile conversation topic.

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6 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

What's the other competing story here?  From what I've read, there were no Senate Democrats other than Feinstein who knew about this allegation, so I'm not sure how Republicans were supposed to know about it ahead of time.  This is something that came out nowhere, not something that's been following Kavanaugh around all this time.  It seems a lot more plausible to me that Republicans had their PR ducks in a row -- it would have been professional malpractice not to.

Feinstein and her congresswoman (Eshoo). She went to them in July, per the Farrow story, so it's been out there a while.

And there's plenty of ways the GOP would know about it but not the Dems.  The White House/the Federalist Society likely had discussions with Kavanaugh during the vetting process in which they would obviously have had more broader discussions of possible roadblocks to his confirmation.  If he knows this woman is out there that thinks she was sexually assaulted by him (or, worse, if he actually did sexually assault her) he likely would have shared it with them. And of course they would have shared it with the GOP members of the Judiciary Committee.

Edited by TobiasFunke

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1 minute ago, Henry Ford said:

No, he didn't deny it.  He said he didn't recall anything about that.

True, edited.

 

Funny how so many Republicans have memory issues though.

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2 hours ago, Sand said:

There was an intervening 35 years to initiate an accusation here.  

[/Cosby]

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3 minutes ago, fatness said:

Here's the letter Grassley had, dated today, by 65 women who just got up early, and all chatted and figured it would be a good idea, because they've all known Kavanaugh all their lives, even though they never went to school with him.

If Kavanaugh is a sexual predator, we'll find out about it soon enough.  Other accusers will come forward.  They always do -- we've seen this over and over again.

Likewise, if there is some kind of conspiracy behind this letter, we'll find that out as well.  All 65 signatories have probably already been contacted by the media to find out when they were contacted and by whom.

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1 minute ago, TobiasFunke said:

Feinstein and her congresswoman (Eshoo). She went to them in July, per the Farrow story, so it's been out there a while.

And there's plenty of ways the GOP would know about it but not the Dems.  The White House/the Federalist Society likely had discussions with Kavanaugh during the vetting process in which they would obviously have had more broader discussions of possible roadblocks to his confirmation.  If he knows this woman is out there that thinks she was sexually assaulted by him (or, worse, if he actually did sexually assault her) he likely would have shared it with them. And of course they would have shared it with the GOP members of the Judiciary Committee.

Well, that would be fine too.  

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2 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

All 65 signatories have probably already been contacted by the media to find out when they were contacted and by whom.

I'm thinking that will (and should) happen as well. As well as checking on how long they've known him, etc.

 

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Just now, IvanKaramazov said:

Well, that would be fine too.  

It's doesn't mean much for the nomination one way or the other, and it doesn't invalidate the letter (which IMO is irrelevant for other reasons). It just means that the Republican party has been concealing allegations of sexual assault against a nominee for the Supreme Court while pushing him through the confirmation process. Which is not a great look for them.  Especially considering some other recent examples of the party ignoring/minimizing other allegations of sexual assault.

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8 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Likewise, if there is some kind of conspiracy behind this letter, we'll find that out as well.  All 65 signatories have probably already been contacted by the media to find out when they were contacted and by whom.

That didn't take long.  My PR theory was wrong, but the truth was even simpler:

Quote

The letter was conceived and drafted by friends of Brett’s, and it was drafted after allegations came out on Thursday. I learned about the letter from a friend and fellow signatory. Others learned about it the same way. Those surprised at the speed with which it came together should see it as yet another testament to Brett’s excellent reputation.

Link

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3 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

It's doesn't mean much for the nomination one way or the other, and it doesn't invalidate the letter (which IMO is irrelevant for other reasons). It just means that the Republican party has been concealing allegations of sexual assault against a nominee for the Supreme Court while pushing him through the confirmation process. Which is not a great look for them.  Especially considering some other recent examples of the party ignoring/minimizing other allegations of sexual assault.

A Democratic Senator concealed these allegations since July.

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So what now? I know many people don’t believe this charge, and if indeed it’s false it would be a terrible thing if Kavanaugh wasn’t voted in as a result of a false accusation. 

But on the other hand, suppose the Republicans refuse to consider it, vote him in quickly, and then more information comes out that he’s guilty? That would be terrible for the GOP- it could cause them to lose the Senate. Plus Kavanaugh would likely be impeached with all that entails. It’s an awful risk to take, unless you’re SURE he’s blameless. Is anybody here? 

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4 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

A Democratic Senator concealed these allegations since July.

At the request of the accuser/alleged victim. Not exactly the same thing.

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Just now, TobiasFunke said:

At the request of the accuser/alleged victim. Not exactly the same thing.

That's fair.  And I'm sensitive to the fact that this is a developing story and we'll all be better-informed in a few days.  But as of right now, there are only two people who we know for sure knew about this allegation, and both are in the opposition party.

To be clear, I don't care much about this letter one way or the other.  It's a bunch of people who are basically vouching for the guy's character, which is nice, but very few of them are presumably in any position to know about Kavanaugh's sexual history.  It would be very interesting if a handful of women who dated Kavanaugh weighed in to say that he was always a gentleman (or not), but general friends and acquaintances can't tell you much.

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2 hours ago, randall146 said:

Here's how the last few pages should have gone:

"He's been accused of rape"

"No, he's been accused of attempted rape"

"Oh yeah, my bad.  Attempted rape is obviously still serious though."

"I agree"

Where did you read the account of what happened?

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11 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

A Democratic Senator concealed these allegations since July.

If by "concealed" you mean "provided the information to the FBI" I agree.

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7 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

At the request of the accuser/alleged victim. Not exactly the same thing.

Laurence Tribe‏ @tribelaw 3h3 hours ago

It’s easy to see why @SenFeinstein was in a quandary here. It could distract from issues of executive power and women’s autonomy and is based on a decades-old allegation. Yet it echoes other veracity concerns and is, after all, about the rights of women.

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9 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

That didn't take long.  My PR theory was wrong, but the truth was even simpler:

Link

The story is kinda dubious, but recognizing that it's all we've got (and that I'm biased against rich powerful Republican type), I guess it's good enough for me.

Now as for the part where anyone involved, from Grassley on down, would think a bunch of women saying "he was nice to me!" somehow exonerates someone from or is even all that relevant regarding allegations of sexual assault ...

 

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5 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Where did you read the account of what happened?

First Henry came after Ivan, and I said nothing, because I am not Ivan

 

 

Serious answer - I may have read one news report about the letter online. Other than that just here

Edited by randall146

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Just now, TobiasFunke said:

Now as for the part where anyone involved, from Grassley on down, would think a bunch of women saying "he was nice to me!" somehow exonerates someone from or is even all that relevant regarding allegations of sexual assault ...

I don't see this as being problematic either.  At this point, this is he-said / she-said.  In these kinds of cases, we're stuck trying to figure out who is most credible.  Character witnesses are marginally helpful here, albeit not by much.

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Just now, randall146 said:

First Henry came after Ivan, and I said nothing, because I am not Ivan

I've seriously been asking people for what they're claiming all day.  We don't have any idea what this woman is claiming Kavanaugh did, other than vague assertions.  We don't know what Feinstein said other than a statement definitely not providing innuendo (in fact not even asserting the sex of the person who wrote the letter.)  I'm just trying to figure out what's going on.

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3 minutes ago, randall146 said:

 

Serious answer - I may have read one news report about the letter online. Other than that just here

If "he tried to force himself on me" = "He grabbed me and held me down and then I kicked him and ran away" then yes, he's an accused attempted rapist.

If "he tried to force himself on me" = "He held me down, pulled my clothes to the side and stuck his tongue in me" then he's an accused rapist.

I don't have any idea what the actual allegation is.

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15 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

I've seriously been asking people for what they're claiming all day.  We don't have any idea what this woman is claiming Kavanaugh did, other than vague assertions.  We don't know what Feinstein said other than a statement definitely not providing innuendo (in fact not even asserting the sex of the person who wrote the letter.)  I'm just trying to figure out what's going on.

If only there was some sort of hearing.

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16 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

If "he tried to force himself on me" = "He grabbed me and held me down and then I kicked him and ran away" then yes, he's an accused attempted rapist.

If "he tried to force himself on me" = "He held me down, pulled my clothes to the side and stuck his tongue in me" then he's an accused rapist.

I don't have any idea what the actual allegation is.

I don’t either, but I read “he tried . . .” as he didn’t succeed. 

“In the letter, the woman alleged that, during an encounter at a party, Kavanaugh held her down, and that he attempted to force himself on her. She claimed in the letter that Kavanaugh and a classmate of his, both of whom had been drinking, turned up music that was playing in the room to conceal the sound of her protests, and that Kavanaugh covered her mouth with his hand. She was able to free herself.”

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https://www.weeklystandard.com/virginia-hume/about-that-letter-from-women-in-support-of-brett-kavanaugh
 

Quote

 

About That Letter From Women in Support of Brett Kavanaugh

On Thursday afternoon, Dianne Feinstein released a cryptic statement saying she had submitted to federal investigators a letter about Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh. Although the FBI quickly announced it would not pursue an investigation, speculation surfaced that the claims related to an incident of sexual misconduct dating to Kavanaugh’s high school years.

On Friday, a group of women who knew Brett in high school sent a letter in support of him to Senators Grassley and Feinstein. I am one of those 65 women. Having seen some of the reaction to the letter, I’d like to clear up a few things:

The letter was conceived and drafted by friends of Brett’s, and it was drafted after allegations came out on Thursday. I learned about the letter from a friend and fellow signatory. Others learned about it the same way. Those surprised at the speed with which it came together should see it as yet another testament to Brett’s excellent reputation.

 

 

Edited by Qanon
typo

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13 minutes ago, randall146 said:

Well we needed something to counter “the right’s” oldest trick of just grabbing women by the #####. 

He never said that, it is a lie.

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5 minutes ago, randall146 said:

I don’t either, but I read “he tried . . .” as he didn’t succeed. 

“In the letter, the woman alleged that, during an encounter at a party, Kavanaugh held her down, and that he attempted to force himself on her. She claimed in the letter that Kavanaugh and a classmate of his, both of whom had been drinking, turned up music that was playing in the room to conceal the sound of her protests, and that Kavanaugh covered her mouth with his hand. She was able to free herself.”

Yes, I read that.  I also read it as he didn't "succeed" but I also know that both scenarios I outlined (and a good many more) can qualify as not "succeeding."  I'd like to read the letter, and in any event he's being accused of sexual assault in either count. 

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2 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Who never said what?

Trump never said he grabbed women by the &*&^&, it is a lie.

Read the transcript.

He said "you could" he never said he did.

Just another lie from the Fake News.

Edited by Qanon

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1 hour ago, TobiasFunke said:

But jeez, the GOP couldn't possibly have picked a worse tack to defend their man. Claiming that acting decent around other women is somehow exonerating and slamming the allegations because the alleged victim chose to remain anonymous is gross. Imagine if a business responded like that after someone prominent in their organization was accused of sexual assault.  The #MeToo crowd would drag them to their death, and rightfully so. It's almost like the GOP is trying to alienate the under 50 female vote.

Then how does one actually defend themselves against an accusation like this?  (This is rhetorical - basically you can't, certainly by your standards).  

He has categorically denied doing anything wrong and he has a huge host of women vouch for his good character.  How else do you defend yourself against a 35 year old he said/she said accusation?

I'll hang up and listen.

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Just now, Qanon said:

Trump never said he grabbed women by the &*&^&, it is a lie

Oh, okay.  Thanks.

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Just now, Henry Ford said:

Oh, okay.  Thanks.

As a lawyer you should have a deep appreciation for the "It depends on what the meaning of 'is' is" defense.

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2 minutes ago, Sand said:

As a lawyer you should have a deep appreciation for the "It depends on what the meaning of 'is' is" defense.

Oh.  Okay, thanks.

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8 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Yes, I read that.  I also read it as he didn't "succeed" but I also know that both scenarios I outlined (and a good many more) can qualify as not "succeeding."  I'd like to read the letter, and in any event he's being accused of sexual assault in either count. 

https://www.weeklystandard.com/virginia-hume/about-that-letter-from-women-in-support-of-brett-kavanaugh
 

Quote

 

About That Letter From Women in Support of Brett Kavanaugh

On Thursday afternoon, Dianne Feinstein released a cryptic statement saying she had submitted to federal investigators a letter about Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh. Although the FBI quickly announced it would not pursue an investigation, speculation surfaced that the claims related to an incident of sexual misconduct dating to Kavanaugh’s high school years.

On Friday, a group of women who knew Brett in high school sent a letter in support of him to Senators Grassley and Feinstein. I am one of those 65 women. Having seen some of the reaction to the letter, I’d like to clear up a few things:

The letter was conceived and drafted by friends of Brett’s, and it was drafted after allegations came out on Thursday. I learned about the letter from a friend and fellow signatory. Others learned about it the same way. Those surprised at the speed with which it came together should see it as yet another testament to Brett’s excellent reputation.

 

Just for you Henry

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Just now, Henry Ford said:

Wrong letter, big guy.

Yet more important, 65 women signed it not an unidentified source.

 

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3 minutes ago, Qanon said:

Yet more important, 65 women signed it not an unidentified source.

 

Oh.  Okay, thanks.

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16 minutes ago, Qanon said:

Trump never said he grabbed women by the &*&^&, it is a lie.

Read the transcript.

He said "you could" he never said he did.

Just another lie from the Fake News.

I never mentioned Trump. Not sure why’d you’d bring him up in the context of me pointing out that “the right” grabs women by the #####. 

Edited by randall146
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1 minute ago, randall146 said:

I never mentioned Trump. Not sure why’d you’d bring him up in the context of me pointing out that “the right” grabs women by the #####. 

Well, because he's the one who said.... aaaaaahhhhhh.  I see what you did there.

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Just now, randall146 said:

I never mentioned Trump. Not sure why’d you’d bring him up in the context of me pointing out that “the right” grabs women b the #####. 

We both know what you implied, but if not who on the Right has made that comment. Please provide link like I did.

With all the sexual abuse resignations lately, seems much more likely from the left.  :thumbup:

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Just now, Henry Ford said:

Well, because he's the one who said.... aaaaaahhhhhh.  I see what you did there.

Yeah we all did, :P

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3 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

 

7 minutes ago, Qanon said:

Yet more important, 65 women signed it not an unidentified source.

 

Oh.  Okay, thanks.

 

I have never been raped by Brett Kavanaugh.  Where do I send my letter?

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1 minute ago, -fish- said:

I have never been raped by Brett Kavanaugh.  Where do I send my letter?

Is that an implication that you have been ra**ed by men other than him?

These are 65 woman that went to school with him.

I think that says a lot.

Edited by Qanon
add

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44 minutes ago, NFL2DF said:

The left's oldest trick in the book, after calling someone a racist, is to call them a rapist.

Yawn.

“They are not our friend, believe me. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

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