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Bernie Sanders HQ! *A decent human being.

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You guys are getting me so worked up, I just donated another $50 to Bernie!

You'll be giving a lot more if he gets elected!

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You guys are getting me so worked up, I just donated another $50 to Bernie!

For some reason they ask me for $35. I donated again. Up to $105 bucks. I fear I'm becoming another Koch.

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AMHERST, N.H. (AP) — Hillary Clinton's campaign is pushing Bernie Sanders to participate in a newly proposed Democratic debate — one not sanctioned by the Democratic National Committee — to be held just days before the New Hampshire primary.

But Sanders, who has surged ahead of Clinton in New Hampshire polls, has no plans to do so, his campaign said.

"The DNC has said this would be an unsanctioned debate so we would not want to jeopardize our ability to participate in future debates," Sanders' campaign manager Jeff Weaver said.

:lmao: :lmao:

Sanders is simply out campaigning Clinton at every turn. He forced Clinton to blink first on this debate - and now this is all about the DNC. When the DNC sanctions this debate, then Bernie simply shows this is just another example of the Clintons pulling all the strings - further entrenching her as the established candidate in a corrupt political system.

Honestly, the lack of judgment shown by Clinton in this campaign is pretty indicative of the lack of judgement she would have shown had she become president.

I love this. Only way it could have been better is if the Sanders statement had alluded to the severity of past penalties handed down by the DNC, and not wanting to fun afoul of them again.

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You guys are getting me so worked up, I just donated another $50 to Bernie!

You'll be giving a lot more if he gets elected!

Doubt it.

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What's the gender gap look like these days? Had Bernie been turning women away from Hillary?

Most of the women I know think that much of the ditrust and dislike of Hillary is sexism, whether conscious or unconscious.

My wife asked me why the naked ambition of Hillary bothers me more than that of Obama, and I really didn't have a good answer other than his other characteristics are better than Hillary and I think my views align more with his than with Hillary.

I don't think, at the time of the first campaign with Obama, that he was viewed as having naked ambition. His campaign slogan "Hope & Change" hit the mark for the people that were fed up with the political elite and status quo. His relative inexperience was viewed by some as a good thing, that perhaps he was outside the mainstream political machine.

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Interesting data point in latest CNN poll

Favorability

Among White registered voters:

Clinton 37/62 = net 25 unfavorable

Sanders 51/40 = net +11 favorable

36 point swing in favorability

Among non-white registered voters:

Clinton 66/32 = net +34 favorable

Sanders 63/23 = net +40 favorable

Sanders has a 6-point advantage over Clinton among non-white registered voters.

One of these candidate is more electable than the other, and he is feeling the Bern...

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If it's Sanders vs Trump, where do the Hilary supporters go?

To therapy*.

"Jail" would also have been an acceptable response.

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If it's Sanders vs Trump, where do the Hilary supporters go?

Since Sanders now officially has a "D" beside his name, Sanders.

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If it's Sanders vs Trump, where do the Hilary supporters go?

Bernie, of course. Unless they're complete idiots who have no idea that there's a big difference between the two major political parties.

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If it's Sanders vs Trump, where do the Hilary supporters go?

LOL

There isn't a single Hillary supporter on Earth that will vote for Trump over Bernie.

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If it's Sanders vs Trump, where do the Hilary supporters go?

A lot may vote for Bloomberg, if he runs. It's a problem for Bernie, who would otherwise get the overwhelming majority of Hillary voters.

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If it's Sanders vs Trump, where do the Hilary supporters go?

LOL

There isn't a single Hillary supporter on Earth that will vote for Trump over Bernie.

oh bull####™

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I think the number of people who would vote Clinton>Trump>Sanders is smaller than the number of people who would vote Sanders>Trump>Clinton.

The "Where do Clinton voters go" is a non-issue without also looking at where Sanders supporters go.

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Clinton > Sanders > Trump.

How on earth would I get to Trump?

I would go Bloomberg most likely if he ran however.

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I think the number of people who would vote Clinton>Trump>Sanders is smaller than the number of people who would vote Sanders>Trump>Clinton.

The "Where do Clinton voters go" is a non-issue without also looking at where Sanders supporters go.

Personally, I think all Sanders voters migrating to Hilary is much more believable than all Hilary supporters migrating to Bernie. My reasoning is simple: Hilary lies between Bernie and Trump on the political spectrum. I have no doubt that many more Hilary supporters would go Bernie but I also believe that Bernie is too far left to get all of them.

Edited by chet

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You guys are getting me so worked up, I just donated another $50 to Bernie!

For some reason they ask me for $35. I donated again. Up to $105 bucks. I fear I'm becoming another Koch.

I'll drag down the average and throw in another $20.

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I think the number of people who would vote Clinton>Trump>Sanders is smaller than the number of people who would vote Sanders>Trump>Clinton.

The "Where do Clinton voters go" is a non-issue without also looking at where Sanders supporters go.

Personally, I think all Sanders voters migrating to Hilary is much more believable than all Hilary supporters migrating to Bernie. My reasoning is simple: Hilary lies between Bernie and Trump on the political spectrum.

Completely disagree.

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I think the number of people who would vote Clinton>Trump>Sanders is smaller than the number of people who would vote Sanders>Trump>Clinton.

The "Where do Clinton voters go" is a non-issue without also looking at where Sanders supporters go.

Personally, I think all Sanders voters migrating to Hilary is much more believable than all Hilary supporters migrating to Bernie. My reasoning is simple: Hilary lies between Bernie and Trump from on the political spectrum. I have no doubt that many more Hilary supporters would go Bernie but I also believe that Bernie is too far left to get all of them.

Hillary supporters are staunch (D)'s - they value the party over everything else - they will vote for Bernie if he is the candidate.

Bernie's supporters are mostly liberal, but they are also anti-establishment. Many will vote for Clinton in ideological grounds, many will opt not to vote for anyone, and more than a few will vote for another anti-establishment candidate if one is running. I think more would support Trump than Cruz - but there have been a number of stories of Trump and Sanders appealing to similar audiences - white, middle-class males.

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Bernie's message has failed if he doesn't win the nom and his supporters don't vote in the general.

Our country really sucks at times, hopefully we get this one right.

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Bernie's message has failed if he doesn't win the nom and his supporters don't vote in the general.

Not at all. Progress is usually inevitable but rarely a straight line

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Instead of looking at the classic line of political beliefs (Ds on the left, Rs on the right, liberals all the way to the left and conservatives all the way to the right) and use a scale such as the political compass I think there would be as much, if not more room between Clinton and Sanders than there would be between Sanders and Trump.

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I think the number of people who would vote Clinton>Trump>Sanders is smaller than the number of people who would vote Sanders>Trump>Clinton.

The "Where do Clinton voters go" is a non-issue without also looking at where Sanders supporters go.

Personally, I think all Sanders voters migrating to Hilary is much more believable than all Hilary supporters migrating to Bernie. My reasoning is simple: Hilary lies between Bernie and Trump on the political spectrum.

Completely disagree.

Really. Tell me more.

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You guys are getting me so worked up, I just donated another $50 to Bernie!

You'll be giving a lot more if he gets elected!

I know this will be the case for me and it doesn't bother me in the least. throwing another $50 Bernie's way today.

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Bernie's message has failed if he doesn't win the nom and his supporters don't vote in the general.

Not at all. Progress is usually inevitable but rarely a straight line

"Failed" was too strong a word, you're right. However, Bernie's point is putting the power of government back in the people's hands. If you're a real Bernie supporter, imo, you should push to bring whatever power you can by having a say in all elections from here on out.

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I think the number of people who would vote Clinton>Trump>Sanders is smaller than the number of people who would vote Sanders>Trump>Clinton.

The "Where do Clinton voters go" is a non-issue without also looking at where Sanders supporters go.

Personally, I think all Sanders voters migrating to Hilary is much more believable than all Hilary supporters migrating to Bernie. My reasoning is simple: Hilary lies between Bernie and Trump on the political spectrum.

Completely disagree.

Really. Tell me more.

Meet for lunch?

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Personally, I think all Sanders voters migrating to Hilary is much more believable than all Hilary supporters migrating to Bernie. My reasoning is simple: Hilary lies between Bernie and Trump on the political spectrum. I have no doubt that many more Hilary supporters would go Bernie but I also believe that Bernie is too far left to get all of them.

Hillary voters support a women's right to choose

They support gay marriage

They support raising taxes on the 1%

They support funding for education

They support funding to combat Climate Change

The support worker's unions

Why on earth would those people vote for Donald Trump? He doesn't support any of those things.

I mean, I guess there are a few independents out there that just vote for whatever personality they like best. But most people vote on the issues that are most important to them.

Hillary and Bernie disagree on some things, but Hillary and Trump disagree on pretty much everything.

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COLUMBIA — Another state legislator has announced his support for Democratic Presidential hopeful Bernie Sanders.

Charleston’s Rep. Wendell Gilliard announced Tuesday he was supporting the Vermont Senator, because he is fighting to address the issues that matter the most to African-Americans.

“He is a leading voice in the movement to end the failed “War on Drugs” that has crippled communities of color and has proposed the most substantive solutions of any candidate in the race to end the disastrous era of mass incarceration,” said Gilliard in a written statement. “Bernie consistently affirms the importance of black lives, by insisting that police forces reflect the diversity of their communities and advocating for body cameras to ensure greater officer accountability.”

I hope that "firewall" is not protecting anything important...

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I think the number of people who would vote Clinton>Trump>Sanders is smaller than the number of people who would vote Sanders>Trump>Clinton.

The "Where do Clinton voters go" is a non-issue without also looking at where Sanders supporters go.

Personally, I think all Sanders voters migrating to Hilary is much more believable than all Hilary supporters migrating to Bernie. My reasoning is simple: Hilary lies between Bernie and Trump on the political spectrum.

Completely disagree.

When I hear people say they are deciding between Bernie and Trump, I can't help thinking they have a profound misapprehension of what these guys stand for.

It is hard for me to think of two people more completely antithetical.

The biggest difference is on economic issues. Bernie completely and utterly mistrusts corporations. He is for significantly higher corporate taxes, and for massive amounts of government regulation to curb their excesses and ensure they don't cut every possible corner to pocket money and/or harm the environment, consumers, etc. He wants to jail corporate executives for breaking the law. Does any of that sound like Trump?

He wants to raise the minimum wage. He wants to lower barriers to immigration. He wants government run health care. He want to drastically cut defense spending. He wants to roll back the surveillance state. Does that sound like Trump?

I think sometimes people are so enamored of Bernie's iconoclasm that they don't pay a lot of attention to what he's really saying. He is profoundly, deeply liberal. I'm good with that - but I just don't see how anyone can remotely consider voting for him if they're also considering voting for Trump. I guess maybe because they're both populists in a way. But Trump's populism is based on saying the government is going to disappear and let every man fend for himself. Bernie's is saying government is going to the be strong arm of the people that makes rich individuals and corporations play by the same rules as everybody else.

Edited by The_Man
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There's an easy explanation for this The_Man. They are making an emotional decision and it's based (a good amount anyway) on perception, not policy positions. Something several of us here have been saying from the beginning.

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I think the number of people who would vote Clinton>Trump>Sanders is smaller than the number of people who would vote Sanders>Trump>Clinton.

The "Where do Clinton voters go" is a non-issue without also looking at where Sanders supporters go.

Personally, I think all Sanders voters migrating to Hilary is much more believable than all Hilary supporters migrating to Bernie. My reasoning is simple: Hilary lies between Bernie and Trump on the political spectrum.

Completely disagree.

When I hear people say they are deciding between Bernie and Trump, I can't help thinking they have a profound misapprehension of what these guys stand for.

It is hard for me to think of two people more completely antithetical.

The biggest difference is on economic issues. Bernie completely and utterly mistrusts corporations. He is for significantly higher corporate taxes, and for massive amounts of government regulation to curb their excesses and ensure they don't cut every possible corner to pocket money and/or harm the environment, consumers, etc. He wants to jail corporate executives for breaking the law. Does any of that sound like Trump?

He wants to raise the minimum wage. He wants to lower barriers to immigration. He wants government run health care. He want to drastically cut defense spending. He wants to roll back the surveillance state. Does that sound like Trump?

I think sometimes people are so enamored of Bernie's iconoclasm that they don't pay a lot of attention to what he's really saying. He is profoundly, deeply liberal. I'm good with that - but I just don't see how anyone can remotely consider voting for him if they're also considering voting for Trump. I guess maybe because they're both populists in a way. But Trump's populism is based on saying the government is going to disappear and let every man fend for himself. Bernie's is saying government is going to the be strong arm of the people that makes rich individuals and corporations play by the same rules as everybody else.

I'm that guy you're talking about. I am split between Trump and Bernie. And believe me, I understand how radically different they are.

I'm having trouble making sense of it myself. It's actually causing me some consternation. I jokingly said the other day I should see a shrink, but I'm halfway serious.

Both are revolutionaries. I guess I desperately hate the status quo and want dramatic change. And both offer that, albeit completely different changes.

My heart is with Bernie. My head is with Trump. It's like that scene in Animal House where the guy has an angel on one shoulder and a devil on the other. (And Megyn Kelly is passed out naked on the bed next to me)

Edited by Higgs
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Quinnipiac also released it latest Iowa poll

Clinton: 45

Sanders: 49

moe - 4%

This is going to come down to turnout, and location of that turnout.

Yup, Sanders is leading 72%-26% in first time caucus-goers in that poll. Clinton leading 54%-38% among past voters.

Also, Bernie is leading 78%-21% in the 18-44 age range. Can the youth enthusiasm actually translate into votes? We'll see.

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I think the number of people who would vote Clinton>Trump>Sanders is smaller than the number of people who would vote Sanders>Trump>Clinton.

The "Where do Clinton voters go" is a non-issue without also looking at where Sanders supporters go.

Personally, I think all Sanders voters migrating to Hilary is much more believable than all Hilary supporters migrating to Bernie. My reasoning is simple: Hilary lies between Bernie and Trump on the political spectrum.

Completely disagree.

When I hear people say they are deciding between Bernie and Trump, I can't help thinking they have a profound misapprehension of what these guys stand for.

It is hard for me to think of two people more completely antithetical.

The biggest difference is on economic issues. Bernie completely and utterly mistrusts corporations. He is for significantly higher corporate taxes, and for massive amounts of government regulation to curb their excesses and ensure they don't cut every possible corner to pocket money and/or harm the environment, consumers, etc. He wants to jail corporate executives for breaking the law. Does any of that sound like Trump?

He wants to raise the minimum wage. He wants to lower barriers to immigration. He wants government run health care. He want to drastically cut defense spending. He wants to roll back the surveillance state. Does that sound like Trump?

I think sometimes people are so enamored of Bernie's iconoclasm that they don't pay a lot of attention to what he's really saying. He is profoundly, deeply liberal. I'm good with that - but I just don't see how anyone can remotely consider voting for him if they're also considering voting for Trump. I guess maybe because they're both populists in a way. But Trump's populism is based on saying the government is going to disappear and let every man fend for himself. Bernie's is saying government is going to the be strong arm of the people that makes rich individuals and corporations play by the same rules as everybody else.

That's how I see it and with Hilary somewhere in between.

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I think the number of people who would vote Clinton>Trump>Sanders is smaller than the number of people who would vote Sanders>Trump>Clinton.

The "Where do Clinton voters go" is a non-issue without also looking at where Sanders supporters go.

Personally, I think all Sanders voters migrating to Hilary is much more believable than all Hilary supporters migrating to Bernie. My reasoning is simple: Hilary lies between Bernie and Trump on the political spectrum.

Completely disagree.

Really. Tell me more.

Meet for lunch?

IPO at the W Hotel on Adams at 12:15?

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Instead of looking at the classic line of political beliefs (Ds on the left, Rs on the right, liberals all the way to the left and conservatives all the way to the right) and use a scale such as the political compass I think there would be as much, if not more room between Clinton and Sanders than there would be between Sanders and Trump.

Not so much, assuming an American grid, Trump is a top right corner guy. Sanders is pretty far left on the economic scale and on the black bar for social scale. Clinton is mid on the economic scale, but upper 25% on social scale.

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Instead of looking at the classic line of political beliefs (Ds on the left, Rs on the right, liberals all the way to the left and conservatives all the way to the right) and use a scale such as the political compass I think there would be as much, if not more room between Clinton and Sanders than there would be between Sanders and Trump.

Not so much, assuming an American grid, Trump is a top right corner guy. Sanders is pretty far left on the economic scale and on the black bar for social scale. Clinton is mid on the economic scale, but upper 25% on social scale.

....................M....................

...............................Trump..

............................................

...................HRC.................

............................................

.............................................

M.....BS...............................M

..............................................

...............................................

...............................................

...............................................

...............................................

.......................M.....................

something like this

Edited by Fennis

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I think the number of people who would vote Clinton>Trump>Sanders is smaller than the number of people who would vote Sanders>Trump>Clinton.

The "Where do Clinton voters go" is a non-issue without also looking at where Sanders supporters go.

Personally, I think all Sanders voters migrating to Hilary is much more believable than all Hilary supporters migrating to Bernie. My reasoning is simple: Hilary lies between Bernie and Trump on the political spectrum.

Completely disagree.

Really. Tell me more.

Meet for lunch?

IPO at the W Hotel on Adams at 12:15?

IPO? Who are you taking public?

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I think the number of people who would vote Clinton>Trump>Sanders is smaller than the number of people who would vote Sanders>Trump>Clinton.

The "Where do Clinton voters go" is a non-issue without also looking at where Sanders supporters go.

Personally, I think all Sanders voters migrating to Hilary is much more believable than all Hilary supporters migrating to Bernie. My reasoning is simple: Hilary lies between Bernie and Trump on the political spectrum.

Completely disagree.

Really. Tell me more.

Meet for lunch?

IPO at the W Hotel on Adams at 12:15?

IPO? Who are you taking public?

It's a restaurant.

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I've voted for R's in every Presidential election I've voted in. If its Sanders v Trump or Cruz, I will vote Sanders and be happy about it. Probably the only Republican I like better is Rubio.

I will vote for just about anyone over Hillary, except Trump. If its Hillary v Trump then I will either not vote or write in.

I know I'm just one man, but we are out there.

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My buddy Nathan (52. Conservative. Was a Carson backer, now a Cruz guy(?). Hates Hillary. Believes Obama was born outside of the USA and that no actual birth certificate was ever produced)

walked up to me the other day...

Him: I have to give you the news.

Me: What about?

Him: Bernie Sanders is going to be the Dems candidate.

Me: Oh? You know I find that good news right?

Him: No. The good news for you is that I think he is going to win it all.

Me: :D

He is the same guy who called him crazy. I asked if he was any crazier then what we had seen on the republican debate stage. He said not a bit.

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I think the number of people who would vote Clinton>Trump>Sanders is smaller than the number of people who would vote Sanders>Trump>Clinton.

The "Where do Clinton voters go" is a non-issue without also looking at where Sanders supporters go.

Personally, I think all Sanders voters migrating to Hilary is much more believable than all Hilary supporters migrating to Bernie. My reasoning is simple: Hilary lies between Bernie and Trump on the political spectrum.

Completely disagree.

When I hear people say they are deciding between Bernie and Trump, I can't help thinking they have a profound misapprehension of what these guys stand for.

It is hard for me to think of two people more completely antithetical.

The biggest difference is on economic issues. Bernie completely and utterly mistrusts corporations. He is for significantly higher corporate taxes, and for massive amounts of government regulation to curb their excesses and ensure they don't cut every possible corner to pocket money and/or harm the environment, consumers, etc. He wants to jail corporate executives for breaking the law. Does any of that sound like Trump?

He wants to raise the minimum wage. He wants to lower barriers to immigration. He wants government run health care. He want to drastically cut defense spending. He wants to roll back the surveillance state. Does that sound like Trump?

I think sometimes people are so enamored of Bernie's iconoclasm that they don't pay a lot of attention to what he's really saying. He is profoundly, deeply liberal. I'm good with that - but I just don't see how anyone can remotely consider voting for him if they're also considering voting for Trump. I guess maybe because they're both populists in a way. But Trump's populism is based on saying the government is going to disappear and let every man fend for himself. Bernie's is saying government is going to the be strong arm of the people that makes rich individuals and corporations play by the same rules as everybody else.

To counter your argument...

1. More jobs.

2. Less foreign intervention.

3. Better trade agreements.

4. Some attention paid to the middle class.

5. A kick in the teeth to the DNC and RNC saying we a fed up with paid off politicians and a system force feeding us crap candidates.

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Instead of looking at the classic line of political beliefs (Ds on the left, Rs on the right, liberals all the way to the left and conservatives all the way to the right) and use a scale such as the political compass I think there would be as much, if not more room between Clinton and Sanders than there would be between Sanders and Trump.

Not so much, assuming an American grid, Trump is a top right corner guy. Sanders is pretty far left on the economic scale and on the black bar for social scale. Clinton is mid on the economic scale, but upper 25% on social scale.

....................M....................

...............................Trump..

............................................

...................HRC.................

............................................

.............................................

M.....BS...............................M

..............................................

...............................................

...............................................

...............................................

...............................................

.......................M.....................

something like this

I'm not sure you really understand Onslaught.

  • Like 6

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I have a hard time trusting that Trump is REALLY anti-establishment, and think we should all be doubtful of it. To me, he seems more like he's on the opposite sde of the establishment.....instead of being a politician in the corporate pocket....he's the corporation itself!!!!!!!

There are a lot of "anyone but Hillary" folks out there, but I find Trump far more insidious and dangerous. Hillary would keep the status quo for the most part. Trump might put our government even deeper into the corporate pocket. If Bernie isn't on the final ballot, put me in the "anyone but Trump" camp

Edited by renesauz
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Trump is going to build his own establishment. It will be the greatest establishment ever. It will come in under budget and on-time. Plus, the Mexicans will pay for it.

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COLUMBIA — Another state legislator has announced his support for Democratic Presidential hopeful Bernie Sanders.

Charleston’s Rep. Wendell Gilliard announced Tuesday he was supporting the Vermont Senator, because he is fighting to address the issues that matter the most to African-Americans.

“He is a leading voice in the movement to end the failed “War on Drugs” that has crippled communities of color and has proposed the most substantive solutions of any candidate in the race to end the disastrous era of mass incarceration,” said Gilliard in a written statement. “Bernie consistently affirms the importance of black lives, by insisting that police forces reflect the diversity of their communities and advocating for body cameras to ensure greater officer accountability.”

I hope that "firewall" is not protecting anything important...

Probably protecting her e-mail server.

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Another prominent African-American woman is feeling the Bern.

Natalie Jackson, the civil rights attorney who represented the family of Trayvon Martin alongside Benjamin Crump during the George Zimmerman trial, is endorsing presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt).

She joins former Ohio state senator Nina Turner in a small but growing number of black women who are throwing their support behind the senator in hopes they can begin shifting African-American support away from former Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton. (Trayvon Martin’s mother, Sybrina Fulton, endorsed Clinton earlier this month.) Black women outvoted every other racial and gender demographic in 2008 and 2012, making them one of the most important voting groups in the 2016 election; they overwhelmingly supported President Barack Obama in both elections. Jackson hopes she can help galvanize similar support for Sanders.

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When I hear people say they are deciding between Bernie and Trump, I can't help thinking they have a profound misapprehension of what these guys stand for.

It is hard for me to think of two people more completely antithetical.

<snip>

But Trump's populism is based on saying the government is going to disappear and let every man fend for himself. Bernie's is saying government is going to the be strong arm of the people that makes rich individuals and corporations play by the same rules as everybody else.

Trump and Sanders are similar in a bunch of ways. They are both perceived to be anti-establishment. They are both supported mainly by white people. They are both in favor of huge government. (I think your last statement about Trump is wrong. He's not going to have the government disappear; he's going to expand it quite a bit.) They are both very much against international trade and in favor of protectionism. And they are probably a lot closer than you'd think on social issues. (Trump's been liberal on social issues for most of his life until he decided to court Republican votes. In fact, Trump's been solidly left on lots of issues before, and may head back that way for the general election once primaries are over.)

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