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Bernie Sanders HQ! *A decent human being.

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1 hour ago, Bottomfeeder Sports said:

Reflecting back on an earlier discussion in this thread...

Is the consensus still that  Sanders would be dishonest if he continues to raise funds "running for president" in order to continue to spread his message, in order to fuel the revolution once the presidency starts becoming out of reach?

Or, is it time to consider that maybe the message was always more important than the candidate, the office?

I've always had the idea that his message is more important than actually winning. Without him, Hillary wins by running on a near Republican message.

More importantly it makes it easier for future Democrats to run on Bernie-lite 'socialist' ideas.

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Just now, cstu said:
1 hour ago, Bottomfeeder Sports said:

Reflecting back on an earlier discussion in this thread...

Is the consensus still that  Sanders would be dishonest if he continues to raise funds "running for president" in order to continue to spread his message, in order to fuel the revolution once the presidency starts becoming out of reach?

Or, is it time to consider that maybe the message was always more important than the candidate, the office?

I've always had the idea that his message is more important than actually winning. Without him, Hillary wins by running on a near Republican message.

More importantly it makes it easier for future Democrats to run on Bernie-lite 'socialist' ideas.

I don't disagree.  But some of Sanders' supporters argued in this thread a few months ago that taking money for the message if he didn't believe he could win would be taking the money on false pretenses..  I disagreed then and now, I am wondering if those posters still hold that position.  

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Been out of touch today. Serious question...and not looking to rub salt in the wound. 

Given the size of the defeat...has there been any rumblings that Sanders will drop out? I assumed that he was in for the long hall no matter what happened in SC...but I never imagined he would lose by close to 50 points.

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3 minutes ago, SIDA! said:

Been out of touch today. Serious question...and not looking to rub salt in the wound. 

Given the size of the defeat...has there been any rumblings that Sanders will drop out? I assumed that he was in for the long hall no matter what happened in SC...but I never imagined he would lose by close to 50 points.

What's the delegate count?

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2 minutes ago, Mister CIA said:

What's the delegate count?

Not counting super delegates...it is still relatively close. But, you know the media is going frame it has Bernie getting slaughtered and he is going to take the momentum into the SEC and that it is going to snowball after that with the media coverage even more.

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24 minutes ago, SIDA! said:

Been out of touch today. Serious question...and not looking to rub salt in the wound. 

Given the size of the defeat...has there been any rumblings that Sanders will drop out? I assumed that he was in for the long hall no matter what happened in SC...but I never imagined he would lose by close to 50 points.

No, Bernie needs to weather the storm through 3/15 or so. If he can do that, he should go on a winning streak through to the convention. It was always going to be close all the way.

Bernie needs to get that message out though. If he lets the media drive the narrative, they'll bury him after Tuesday most likely.

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2 hours ago, The Commish said:

:lol:  Pay him no mind SB, no one else does.

And yet this is your 2nd post in response to my earlier post.

Always appreciate your takes Commish, especially the ones in recent years where you've argued that the Democrat were just as crazy as Republicans, despite all evidence suggesting otherwise.  Maybe after Trump officially secures the nomination you'll look in the mirror and realize that perhaps your conservative bias misled you.

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34 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

No, Bernie needs to weather the storm through 3/15 or so. If he can do that, he should go on a winning streak through to the convention. It was always going to be close all the way.

Bernie needs to get that message out though. If he lets the media drive the narrative, they'll bury him after Tuesday most likely.

This part where Bernie guys steal Rush's lamestream media shtick is sad. 

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1 hour ago, tommyGunZ said:

This part where Bernie guys steal Rush's lamestream media shtick is sad. 

This isn't about "mainstream" media. It's about how the media overreacts - in both directions. Although given that Hillary has been the presumptive winner, they don't currently tend to overreact in Bernie's directions when he wins a state. For now. But back on point, no...this isn't about the "media" holding anyone down. It's just how the 24-hour news cycle works. They will analyze to death what the SC loss means for Bernie, and if he doesn't do very good during Super Tuesday they'll be circling like sharks in the water. Couple of wins after that and it'll be a "race" again (according to the media). But I fully expect Bernie's camp to continue fighting right up to the convention, as long as he has a shot.

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Whatever happens now, Bernie's message is impossible to ignore. Given his popularity and that of Liz Warren, it probably represents the future of the Democratic Party whether Hillary wins or not. Being a free trader I don't like that very much, but the passion Bernie has brought to the political system- thoughtful passion, not the mindless passion of the Trump fans- is a good thing. 

The Bernie supporters in this forum have generally been great to read, except when they spent their time ripping Hillary. Hopefully most of you guys will put aside any lingering animosity and unite with us to stop a neo-fascist from taking the White House. 

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20 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Whatever happens now, Bernie's message is impossible to ignore. Given his popularity and that of Liz Warren, it probably represents the future of the Democratic Party whether Hillary wins or not. Being a free trader I don't like that very much, but the passion Bernie has brought to the political system- thoughtful passion, not the mindless passion of the Trump fans- is a good thing. 

The Bernie supporters in this forum have generally been great to read, except when they spent their time ripping Hillary. Hopefully most of you guys will put aside any lingering animosity and unite with us to stop a neo-fascist from taking the White House. 

"Join me, and I will complete your training. With our combined strength, we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy."

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17 minutes ago, BobbyLayne said:

They're not treating him unfairly, that's just a lame conservative talking point!!!

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IMO, the reason that Bernie and Trump are doing as well as they are is that the quality of candidates on both sides is awful.  

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7 hours ago, cstu said:

I've always had the idea that his message is more important than actually winning. Without him, Hillary wins by running on a near Republican message.

More importantly it makes it easier for future Democrats to run on Bernie-lite 'socialist' ideas.

Why wouldn't you expect Hillary to shift right back to the middle after she gets the nomination?  Her "I'm a progressive who likes to get things done" will become "I'm a moderate who likes to get things done".

Now's when I should be happy that my personal finances won't take a hit, right?  

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9 hours ago, cstu said:

I've always had the idea that his message is more important than actually winning. Without him, Hillary wins by running on a near Republican message.

More importantly it makes it easier for future Democrats to run on Bernie-lite 'socialist' ideas.

Any viable Bernie-lite Democrats in the pipeline? No longer follow politics closely enough to know...

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So to come out of Super Tuesday and be viable Bernie needs to win Mass, Colorado and Minnesota. If he loses two of those and only wins Vermont there will be huge pressure to get our.

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9 hours ago, tommyGunZ said:

And yet this is your 2nd post in response to my earlier post.

Always appreciate your takes Commish, especially the ones in recent years where you've argued that the Democrat were just as crazy as Republicans, despite all evidence suggesting otherwise.  Maybe after Trump officially secures the nomination you'll look in the mirror and realize that perhaps your conservative bias misled you.

Oh, I fully acknowledge love watching your show.  I just said he shouldn't take it seriously.  

I've always acknowledged that right now, the loon right is leading the race to the bottom right now.  That doesn't change the fact that both parties have frequently driven the bus leading us to the bottom over time.  You can try and put words in my mouth if you like.  That's on you.  You and your GOP brethren better get on the same page....between their accusations of me being a bleeding heart and your accusations of "conservative bias" you guys can't seem to get it straight.

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3 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Oh, I fully acknowledge love watching your show.  I just said he shouldn't take it seriously.  

I've always acknowledged that right now, the loon right is leading the race to the bottom right now.  That doesn't change the fact that both parties have frequently driven the bus leading us to the bottom over time.  You can try and put words in my mouth if you like.  That's on you.  You and your GOP brethren better get on the same page....between their accusations of me being a bleeding heart and your accusations of "conservative bias" you guys can't seem to get it straight.

TG can't deal with the truth that at the national level Democrats are incrementally different than the Republicans at best. You know who does get it? The American people. That is why independent in now the largest party. Both parties serve masters other than the voters and anyone paying any attention knows it.

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8 hours ago, timschochet said:

Whatever happens now, Bernie's message is impossible to ignore. Given his popularity and that of Liz Warren, it probably represents the future of the Democratic Party whether Hillary wins or not. Being a free trader I don't like that very much, but the passion Bernie has brought to the political system- thoughtful passion, not the mindless passion of the Trump fans- is a good thing. 

The Bernie supporters in this forum have generally been great to read, except when they spent their time ripping Hillary. Hopefully most of you guys will put aside any lingering animosity and unite with us to stop a neo-fascist from taking the White House. 

You prefer the neo socialist.  We know.

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1 hour ago, NCCommish said:

So to come out of Super Tuesday and be viable Bernie needs to win Mass, Colorado and Minnesota. If he loses two of those and only wins Vermont there will be huge pressure to get our.

No doubt sanders needs to win co and mn.  I don,t think he gets mn, mass and Vermont are a lock for sanders.  After the big SC win you feel Hillary is going to pull away going forward.

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20 minutes ago, Gopher State said:

No doubt sanders needs to win co and mn.  I don,t think he gets mn, mass and Vermont are a lock for sanders.  After the big SC win you feel Hillary is going to pull away going forward.

MA native here. Latest polls show it dead even. Both Clinton and Sanders are holding events in Mass on Monday- they know how important this is. I'll be doing my part for Bernie on Tuesday.

Edited by Murph
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2 hours ago, Poppa said:

Any viable Bernie-lite Democrats in the pipeline? No longer follow politics closely enough to know...

I've been trying to find out how to get funding to run for state office since he announced in April, as I currently have none. I know he has inspired others too.

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52 minutes ago, Jayrok said:

Time to shut this one down, boys. 

 

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We're fighting until the convention, giving it all we have. This thing isn't over until a candidate has 2,383 pledged delegates.

Bernie needs your support! Donate, volunteer, phonebank!

Edited by hagmania

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Bernie can only really afford to lose one of the following states on Tuesday: Colorado, Minnesota, Massachusetts, Oklahoma.

In order to have a realistic shot I think he must take at least 3-4.  Hopefully we see something significant in tomorrow's email dump and enough voters know about it prior to voting on Tuesday.

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Nate Silver doesn't get much wrong, and that's depressing in this case.

I just donated $27 to Bernie's campaign anyway. Let's get this message heard loud and clear.

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Let's say Shillary and Forrest Trump get huge leads in a couple weeks and then the hammer comes down on Clinton in the email issue. Do the Dems give it to Bernie or does someone else steal it at the convention in a draft movement? Maybe Gore?

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33 minutes ago, hagmania said:

I've been trying to find out how to get funding to run for state office since he announced in April, as I currently have none. I know he has inspired others too.

He's gotten me thinking about running as well. Would probably have to live in a more liberal district, the only thing needed to get elected here is a little (R) by your name. 

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3 hours ago, Poppa said:

Any viable Bernie-lite Democrats in the pipeline? No longer follow politics closely enough to know...

I like what I've read about Nevada Senator Martin Heinrich

 

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10 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

Nate Silver doesn't get much wrong, and that's depressing in this case.

I just donated $27 to Bernie's campaign anyway. Let's get this message heard loud and clear.

Of course he doesn't, he is telling us what we all can see if we look. We've actually been trying to change America's mind if it's willing to do so. Right now it might not be, but we're fighting to reach those that thought they didn't have a voice to hand them a megaphone.

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3 minutes ago, bud29 said:

He's gotten me thinking about running as well. Would probably have to live in a more liberal district, the only thing needed to get elected here is a little (R) by your name. 

I would love and hope to be the crazy loon - national level: campaign finance reform, universal healthcare, and a basic income guarantee. TN level: get this state back on the right left track socially, we have been political satire fodder for years now. Nashville level: public transportation, fiber internet as a utility, prop up the metro school system.

And that's just the base. I want to get into it and find out what my voters want me to work on, that's what is so beautiful to me about Bernie - his gun voting record. He listened to his constituency about guns and voted that way because he realized he represented them. That's inspiring.

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Bernie must love the democratic primary process.  He's working really hard and doing great for himself, but the delegates that really should belong to him are getting redistributed by the system to other candidates that don't really deserve it.  

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31 minutes ago, hagmania said:

I would love and hope to be the crazy loon - national level: campaign finance reform, universal healthcare, and a basic income guarantee. TN level: get this state back on the right left track socially, we have been political satire fodder for years now. Nashville level: public transportation, fiber internet as a utility, prop up the metro school system.

And that's just the base. I want to get into it and find out what my voters want me to work on, that's what is so beautiful to me about Bernie - his gun voting record. He listened to his constituency about guns and voted that way because he realized he represented them. That's inspiring.

Oh, KS is a joke as well - both economically and socially. There are some pundits who speculate that Brownback may be the worst state governor in U.S. history. He's totally trashed our finances, and the state legislature has been overrun by tea party reps who insist that cutting taxes will somehow solve our problems. Socially, Brownback drew some pretty decent crowds going around the state doing ceremonial signings of new anti-abortion legislation last year. That should tell you all you need to know. 

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16 minutes ago, Riversco said:

Bernie must love the democratic primary process.  He's working really hard and doing great for himself, but the delegates that really should belong to him are getting redistributed by the system to other candidates that don't really deserve it.  

I hesitate to ask, but... link?

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3 hours ago, NCCommish said:

So to come out of Super Tuesday and be viable Bernie needs to win Mass, Colorado and Minnesota. If he loses two of those and only wins Vermont there will be huge pressure to get our.

I don't think the pressure will be to get out, but it will be tone down the attacks on how Hillary is "bought and sold".   Hillary's team wouldn't want to thwart the enthusiasm that Bernie has built, but to channel it through his endorsement and support to her.

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Not over yet. He didn't put much of an effort into SC. Bernie's still building steam. Every day I see new support. Gabbard, a vice chair of the DNC, just quit today to support Bernie's campaign. She would know better than just about anyone that he still has a chance.

link

Edited by mon

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2 minutes ago, mon said:

Not over yet. He didn't put much of an effort into SC. Bernie's still building steam. Every day I see new support. Gabbard, a vice chair of the DNC, just quit today to support Bernie's campaign. She would know better than just about anyone that he still has a chance.

Huh?

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10 minutes ago, Bottomfeeder Sports said:

I don't think the pressure will be to get out, but it will be tone down the attacks on how Hillary is "bought and sold".   Hillary's team wouldn't want to thwart the enthusiasm that Bernie has built, but to channel it through his endorsement and support to her.

He pretty much has to win MA and OK too.  But the problem for him even if he does all that is that he'll win most of "his" states narrowly -- and delegates are awarded proportionately.  So even if he splits the states/wins with Clinton 50/50 he could fall WAY behind in delegates if she racks up a bunch of 70/30 wins in the South.

Edited by wdcrob
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1 minute ago, Bottomfeeder Sports said:

Everyone knows who Bloomberg is pulling for. Bernie is spending more and investing more people everywhere at this point because he knows he has to. He's still down, I'm not denying that. I read just yesterday that he didn't put as much effort in SC as he could have. Sorry I can't remember the source.

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1 minute ago, wdcrob said:

He pretty much has to win MA and OK too.  But the problem for him even if he does all that is that he'll win most of "his" states narrowly -- and delegates are awarded proportionately.  So even if he splits the states/wins with Clinton 50/50 he could fall WAY behind in delegates if she racks up a bunch of 70/30 wins in the South.

:lol: It's so sad, Bernie just can't catch a break. When he closed the huge gap in Iowa and Nevada and split the delegates, it was about Hillary winning the states. When he has to tread water and win states on Super Tuesday, the narrative will be that he didn't win by enough.

All about the narrative, all about surviving through the 15th. Bernie supporters will be at honey badger levels if he still has a shot at the delegate count come the 15th.

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4 hours ago, Poppa said:

Any viable Bernie-lite Democrats in the pipeline? No longer follow politics closely enough to know...

I don't know if they qualify as Bernie-lite, but I don't think we've seen the last of Martin O'Malley. In California, Gavin Newsom is running for Governor in 2018, and I wouldn't be surprised if his sights are on the Presidency in 2024 or so if things line up properly.

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2 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

I don't know if they qualify as Bernie-lite, but I don't think we've seen the last of Martin O'Malley. In California, Gavin Newsom is running for Governor in 2018, and I wouldn't be surprised if his sights are on the Presidency in 2024 or so if things line up properly.

That's good news about Newsom. I remember 10-12 years ago thinking he'd make a good president.

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