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Bernie Sanders HQ! *A decent human being. (2 Viewers)

Also, Sanders is a Democratic socialist, which is different from a socialist. Socialists advocate that the state controls the means of production, such as factories, offices, resources, and firms. Democratic socialism does not. In fact, the United States currently has some social democracy programs such as Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment insurance, and food stamps. Sanders would like us to add things like better education, healthcare, and social service provisions for the general population.

 
Ladsud said:
Im all ears, Im undecided as of right now. The only thing I see coming from Bernie is higher taxes, free college, bad nafta and protests. 
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The higher taxes is easily misunderstood though. There is a HUGE problem with our medical system, and he (and most of us supporting him) believe that that problem stems from a for-profit mostly privatized health care system. We spend 18% GDP now, while the most expensive single payer systems in the world spend more like 12-13%, and some are under 10%. The tax hikes for a Medicare-for-all plan should be easily offset by the savings of no longer paying for health insurance and copays.

The largest three pharm companies posted 150 BILLION in profits last year, and spent twice as much on marketing as they did on R&D. Yet millions struggle to pay for their meds. How dumb is that?! 

Bernie wants to get Wall Street/bankers out of the politicians pockets. Right now, almost all new wealth in this country for the past 20 years has gone to the elite. The middle class is shrinking. Many people believe our trade policies have a lot to do with that as jobs go overseas.

I'm not personally convinced that college should be free, but it's certainly far too expensive now, and young people are being saddled with far too much debt. The cost of college has risen at a rate more than quadrupling inflation over the past 20 years. 

 
renesauz said:
The higher taxes is easily misunderstood though. There is a HUGE problem with our medical system, and he (and most of us supporting him) believe that that problem stems from a for-profit mostly privatized health care system. We spend 18% GDP now, while the most expensive single payer systems in the world spend more like 12-13%, and some are under 10%. The tax hikes for a Medicare-for-all plan should be easily offset by the savings of no longer paying for health insurance and copays.

The largest three pharm companies posted 150 BILLION in profits last year, and spent twice as much on marketing as they did on R&D. Yet millions struggle to pay for their meds. How dumb is that?! 

Bernie wants to get Wall Street/bankers out of the politicians pockets. Right now, almost all new wealth in this country for the past 20 years has gone to the elite. The middle class is shrinking. Many people believe our trade policies have a lot to do with that as jobs go overseas.

I'm not personally convinced that college should be free, but it's certainly far too expensive now, and young people are being saddled with far too much debt. The cost of college has risen at a rate more than quadrupling inflation over the past 20 years. 
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I agree with everything you just said. I wish It was possible to fix. 

 
I dont know how to have a serious discusion on raise tax rates on the rich. Weve got PLENTY of data on that now and every time someone tries that over the past 100-200 years, the rich find a way to build in a bunch of tax shelters all over the place to beat the system.

Even IF he could raise those taxes, i dont see how he prevents that from happening again. He doesnt seem to have a plan to prevent it. bernie "new" tax plan looks to me like a mobius strip of tax ideas. We just keep going round and round between low taxes and no loopholes to higher taxes and more loopholes, screaming "progress" at the top of our lungs while going in an endless loop. I am not excited.

 
Ladsud said:
I agree with everything you just said. I wish It was possible to fix. 
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It's been impossible to fix mostly because big business owns Washington. Much of the support Bernie gets is because he's willing to fight that. It seems likely he'll fail, but at least the discussion will have been started.

 
Riversco said:
I dont know how to have a serious discusion on raise tax rates on the rich. Weve got PLENTY of data on that now and every time someone tries that over the past 100-200 years, the rich find a way to build in a bunch of tax shelters all over the place to beat the system.

Even IF he could raise those taxes, i dont see how he prevents that from happening again. He doesnt seem to have a plan to prevent it. bernie "new" tax plan looks to me like a mobius strip of tax ideas. We just keep going round and round between low taxes and no loopholes to higher taxes and more loopholes, screaming "progress" at the top of our lungs while going in an endless loop. I am not excited.
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He actually does have a tax plan to close offshore haven loopholes.

 
renesauz said:
It's been impossible to fix mostly because big business owns Washington. Much of the support Bernie gets is because he's willing to fight that. It seems likely he'll fail, but at least the discussion will have been started.
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It will take more than one man, we would need a man on the scope of a Napoleon to make any meaningful change. Those people cannot exist in our government. We get crumbs of change as the train barrels down. 

 
Ladsud said:
It will take more than one man, we would need a man on the scope of a Napoleon to make any meaningful change. Those people cannot exist in our government. We get crumbs of change as the train barrels down. 
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Possibly, but we have to start somewhere

 
"He has a plan to close loopholes..." i dont know what that means. Bernie would need to show me that hes got something BRILLIANT to fix the loophole problem, otherwise i will side with history and believe his tax hikes will fail either because congress builds out loopholes immediately, or congress does it right after he leaves office.

Show me a plan to prevent that and sure ill get on board. Otherwise i think were still going round and round and bernie is just another politican yanking my chain.

 
Riversco said:
"He has a plan to close loopholes..." i dont know what that means. Bernie would need to show me that hes got something BRILLIANT to fix the loophole problem, otherwise i will side with history and believe his tax hikes will fail either because congress builds out loopholes immediately, or congress does it right after he leaves office.

Show me a plan to prevent that and sure ill get on board. Otherwise i think were still going round and round and bernie is just another politican yanking my chain.
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Welcome Aboard, Riversco!

https://berniesanders.com/issues/making-the-wealthy-pay-fair-share/


IN ORDER TO CRACK DOWN ON CORPORATE TAX AVOIDERS, SEN. SANDERS WOULD:


  •  
  • End the rule allowing American corporations to defer paying federal income taxes on profits of offshore subsidiaries.
  • Under current law, U.S. corporations are allowed to defer or delay U.S. income taxes on overseas profits until this money is brought back into the United States. U.S. corporations are also provided foreign tax credits to offset the amount of taxes paid to other countries.

  • This offshore tax scheme has provided two perverse incentives for American corporations.


  • First, it motivates large companies to shift as much of their profits as possible overseas by setting up subsidiaries in the Cayman Islands and other tax haven countries.

  • Second, it allows corporations to receive huge tax breaks for establishing manufacturing facilities in countries with very low or no corporate tax rates.

  • Senator Sanders would end these loopholes by requiring U.S. companies to pay taxes on all of their income by ending the deferral of foreign source income.
    Under Sanders’ plan, corporations would pay U.S. taxes on their offshore profits as they are earned. This plan takes away the tax incentives for corporations to move jobs offshore or to shift profits offshore because the U.S. would tax their profits no matter where they are generated.

  • Senator Sanders would use the revenue gained by closing these loopholes to put at least 13 million Americans to work rebuilding our crumbling roads, bridges, railways, airports, public transit systems, ports, dams, wastewater plants, and other infrastructure needs.


  • Prevent corporations from avoiding U.S. taxes by claiming to be a foreign company through the establishment of a post office box in a tax haven country.
  •  
  • Senator Sanders would prevent corporations that are American for all practical purposes from avoiding U.S. taxes by claiming to be a foreign company through the establishment of a post office box in a tax haven country.

  • Specifically, a corporation could not claim to be from another country if their management and control operations are primarily located in the U.S.

  • Eliminate tax breaks for big oil, gas, and coal companies.


    Senator Sanders would fight to repeal dozens of loopholes and tax subsidies throughout the federal tax code that benefit oil, natural gas, and coal special interests, saving $135 billion over the next decade. This revenue would be used to help create a clean-energy workforce of 10 million good-paying jobs by creating a 100% clean energy system.

  • Prevent American companies from avoiding U.S. taxes by corporate inversions.
  •  
  • Another way American companies avoid U.S. taxes is through corporate inversions. Under this practice, an American company acquires or merges with a much smaller foreign business and then claims that the newly merged company is a foreign one for tax purposes — even though the majority of the ownership is unchanged and little or no personnel or operations have actually moved offshore. Senator Sanders would end this tax scam by treating corporations as American corporations for tax purposes when it is still majority owned by U.S. interests.

  • Close loopholes that allow U.S. corporations to artificially inflate or accelerate foreign tax credits.
  • When U.S. corporations earn profits overseas, taxes paid to the foreign country are credited against U.S. tax liabilities. Under current rules and tax planning strategies, corporations are allowed to claim foreign tax credits for taxes paid on foreign income that is not subject to current U.S. tax. As a result, companies are able to use such credits to pay lower taxes on their U.S. taxable income than they would if it was all from U.S. sources – providing them with a competitive advantage over companies that invest in the United States.
  • Senator Sanders would reform current law to limit foreign tax credits to offset income only from the country in which it is earned.

 
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SameSongNDance said:
You post the USSR national anthem, which simultaneously proves your ignorance and reveals your demeanor and then you pretend to  want to have a nuanced discussion about Bernie's policies.  :lmao:
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Dont take it personal. If your guy wins the nomination it will be pounded into the ground. Lighten up a bit, its still only March. Good luck Tuesday. 

 
I need a brilliant plan to fix the loophole problem. Clayton, all you gave me was promises to crack down. If thats the answer, then the tax hikes will fail because as soon as enthusiasm wanes the loopholes will return. There is nothing workable here. I dont see a feasible plan.

 
Riversco said:
I need a brilliant plan to fix the loophole problem. Clayton, all you gave me was promises to crack down. If thats the answer, then the tax hikes will fail because as soon as enthusiasm wanes the loopholes will return. There is nothing workable here. I dont see a feasible plan.
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That's not a "crackdown" that's a fundamental change in the way large corporations pay taxes. 

 
Ladsud said:
He has openly attacked Wall St., where the heart of capitalism lays and advocating taxing it to death. If you can refrain from personal attacks and tell me how he is going to solve our problems without taxing me into the grave please share. Or is this the snobby bern bro thread where we shoot down people that dont agree with your socialist plan for America?
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Link?

If you don't want to get shot down you should try presenting a cohesive argument supported by something other than innuendo.  The same old unsubstantiated drivel is getting stale.  Probably better off reposting it under another alias.

 
Ladsud said:
He has openly attacked Wall St., where the heart of capitalism lays and advocating taxing it to death. If you can refrain from personal attacks and tell me how he is going to solve our problems without taxing me into the grave please share. Or is this the snobby bern bro thread where we shoot down people that dont agree with your socialist plan for America?
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Hey ladsud, do you make 10MM a year?

 
I'm actually rather disappointed at some of Bernie's response to the recent rash of protesting. He has preached support for the issues he is campaigning on, and not going negative.

It's shameful to hear justification from either side on some of this, and blaming any candidate imo. No matter what they might campaign on, no matter the language they use, it's still on the individual to behave. We are better than this, at least I hope.

People have the right to choose, it's all of our country, don't shut them down, it just creates an atmosphere that is antithetical to Bernie's message.

America Together
Not Me, Us
We

 
hagmania said:
I'm actually rather disappointed at some of Bernie's response to the recent rash of protesting. He has preached support for the issues he is campaigning on, and not going negative.

It's shameful to hear justification from either side on some of this, and blaming any candidate imo. No matter what they might campaign on, no matter the language they use, it's still on the individual to behave. We are better than this, at least I hope.

People have the right to choose, it's all of our country, don't shut them down, it just creates an atmosphere that is antithetical to Bernie's message.

America Together
Not Me, Us
We
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His response was he had nothing to do with it. And the people.have every right to protest anyone they want. Drumpf certainly seems like a deserving target.

 
I guess I just expected him to promote a more positive atmosphere. Seems afraid to lose BLM support, were I thinking tactically.

The protesting shut down a rally, I don't think any candidate deserves that.

 
hagmania said:
I guess I just expected him to promote a more positive atmosphere. Seems afraid to lose BLM support, were I thinking tactically.

The protesting shut down a rally, I don't think any candidate deserves that.
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When your rallies are essentially fascist fantasy camp sorry you are going to draw heat. Trump counts on it. Saw he had a rally with no protestors and it was so boring Trump was asking if there were any distuptors in the house. 

 
I'm with you hags, on the protesting.

While I think it is important for Bernie to acknowledge everyone's right to protest, I think Bernie should have said something like "While the language and subtext of Donald Trump's campaign certainly deserve protest, I ask that my supporters stay far away from Trump's rallies.  I would hate to see anyone injured by Trump's [ignorant] followers.  Let us instead make our collective voices heard loudly and clearly in the election process" 

 
Idiot Boxer said:
I'm with you hags, on the protesting.

While I think it is important for Bernie to acknowledge everyone's right to protest, I think Bernie should have said something like "While the language and subtext of Donald Trump's campaign certainly deserve protest, I ask that my supporters stay far away from Trump's rallies.  I would hate to see anyone injured by Trump's [ignorant] followers.  Let us instead make our collective voices heard loudly and clearly in the election process" 
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Good approach.

 
hagmania said:
I guess I just expected him to promote a more positive atmosphere. Seems afraid to lose BLM support, were I thinking tactically.

The protesting shut down a rally, I don't think any candidate deserves that.
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http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2016/03/13/full-rush-transcript-senator-bernie-sanders-cnn-tv-one-democratic-presidential-town-hall/

We have never - our campaign does believe, and never will, encourage anybody to disrupt anything. We have millions of supporters; people do what they do. People have the right to protest.

I happen to not believe that people should disrupt anybody's meetings, but let me say something about Mr. Trump.





 
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But let me repeat what I said.  I never have and never will condone violence.  People have the right to protest, that's what America is about.  I have been on the picket lines my whole life, but that is very different from getting involved in violence. 





 
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Clayton Gray said:
http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2016/03/13/full-rush-transcript-senator-bernie-sanders-cnn-tv-one-democratic-presidential-town-hall/
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Myself and most sane people roll our eyes when Trump and his supporters say he never incited violence.  And if you read his quotes strictly literally, he might not.  But there is a clear endorsement of it.  

I'd just hate for Bernie to be unclear and for the over-enthusiastic Bernie fan to try to find some kind of subtext in what he's saying.   It could be interpreted as a wink and a nod by his followers to keep protesting and getting beat up by Trump followers. 

While, ultimately, it is still Trump and his follower's fault, no need to step into harm's way.  I don't see these protests as being a net-positive for Bernie or a net-negative for Trump.  Indeed, it could go the other direction on both counts.  So there is no value in them to Bernie's campaign.

 
Idiot Boxer said:
Myself and most sane people roll our eyes when Trump and his supporters say he never incited violence.  And if you read his quotes strictly literally, he might not.  But there is a clear endorsement of it.  

I'd just hate for Bernie to be unclear and for the over-enthusiastic Bernie fan to try to find some kind of subtext in what he's saying.   It could be interpreted as a wink and a nod by his followers to keep protesting and getting beat up by Trump followers. 

While, ultimately, it is still Trump and his follower's fault, no need to step into harm's way.  I don't see these protests as being a net-positive for Bernie or a net-negative for Trump.  Indeed, it could go the other direction on both counts.  So there is no value in them to Bernie's campaign.
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The people most likely to support Bernie are also the people most likely to.protest Trump. Activists. They aren't going to go into hiding when a violent,hateful and facist campaign is throwing them and the people they support to the lion's. Literally if they could.

Personally I want no part of it. Looks like a goos way to get killed and i wont be surprised if there is a death. But that's my call. I don't have a problem with those who come to a different conclusion.

 
Some of the latest polls: 

Sanders +1 in Missouri

Clinton +3 in Illinois

Clinton +5 in Ohio (Two polls released today show this margin)

Alex -

Let me tell you, Bernie is going after every. last. vote. today. Before midnight, he’ll hold five rallies in four of the states with a primary tomorrow: Ohio, North Carolina, Missouri, and Illinois.

He's working so hard because we are so damn close. This morning, a fresh wave of polls came out showing Bernie leading or within the margin of error in three of those states. And in the fourth, we’re well within the margin of some of Michigan’s polling in the final days.

Bernie’s doing everything he can today, and that’s why he’s asking you to do the same. He doesn’t go around asking millionaires for money – our campaign is funded by emails like this. So we have to ask:

Can Bernie count on you to make one more $5 contribution beforemidnight tonight? We’re almost at our goal of 150,000 contributions before our midnight deadline. Put us over the top.

After tomorrow night, the map shifts dramatically in our favor. And I mean dramatically. If we can do well tomorrow night, we’re going to win. Those are the stakes. And that’s why hitting our goal is so important.

In solidarity,

Jeff Weaver
Campaign Manager
Bernie 2016
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NCCommish said:
The people most likely to support Bernie are also the people most likely to.protest Trump. Activists. They aren't going to go into hiding when a violent,hateful and facist campaign is throwing them and the people they support to the lion's. Literally if they could.

Personally I want no part of it. Looks like a goos way to get killed and i wont be surprised if there is a death. But that's my call. I don't have a problem with those who come to a different conclusion.
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I agree on all points.  

However, if, as you said, you would not be surprised if someone gets killed, then I'd say Bernie has a duty to caution his followers against such dangers.

 
Idiot Boxer said:
I agree on all points.  

However, if, as you said, you would not be surprised if someone gets killed, then I'd say Bernie has a duty to caution his followers against such dangers.
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Their call.to make. And it would be kind of silly for a guy who was on the front lines of the civil.rights protest to.tell someone else not to protest because they might be in danger.

 
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