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Bernie Sanders HQ! *A decent human being. (9 Viewers)

dparker713 said:
:lmao:

Its over absent an indictment.  
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Which would seem like more of a longshot if the FBI weren't currently investigating her for crimes against the State, some of which, according to the available evidence provided through the media, she almost certainly committed.

 
dparker713 said:
Still seems like a longshot.
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Sure. Whole lot less of one than your average candidate, though. Even if it's 1% (and it's much higher than that) when was the last time you voted for a presidential candidate who had a 1% chance of being indicted under an FBI investigation before being sworn in? Doesn't bother you at all?

 
Henry Ford said:
Sure. Whole lot less of one than your average candidate, though. Even if it's 1% (and it's much higher than that) when was the last time you voted for a presidential candidate who had a 1% chance of being indicted under an FBI investigation before being sworn in? Doesn't bother you at all?
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Everything about this election cycle bothers me.  The last two viable options for the Republicans made my stomach turn.  And I never thought I'd ever even consider voting for Hillary.  But this is where we are.  This is what I'm left with.  I had no hand in choosing these candidates as I never really do (want to really change up the process?  randomly rotate the primary dates).  But when left with the actual options presented to me I'll hold my nose and vote for Hillary.

 
dparker713 said:
Everything about this election cycle bothers me.  The last two viable options for the Republicans made my stomach turn.  And I never thought I'd ever even consider voting for Hillary.  But this is where we are.  This is what I'm left with.  I had no hand in choosing these candidates as I never really do (want to really change up the process?  randomly rotate the primary dates).  But when left with the actual options presented to me I'll hold my nose and vote for Hillary.
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Okay. Doesn't seem necessary to talk #### to Sanders supporters if that's how you feel, though.

And let's be honest, anyone else in this country is being investigated by double digit FBI agents, it's not a longshot that he or she gets indicted.

 
Henry Ford said:
Okay. Doesn't seem necessary to talk #### to Sanders supporters if that's how you feel, though.

And let's be honest, anyone else in this country is being investigated by double digit FBI agents, it's not a longshot that he or she gets indicted.
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You want to support Sanders still?  Fine.  But don't claim that he's got a chance outside a miracle.  And don't try to claim the actual candidates are both equally bad.  

If we're being honest, we can just recognize that justice in this country has never and will never be blind.  

ETA - My main problem is really with people washing their hands of the whole thing.  You might have wanted someone else, but you were outvoted.  That doesn't mean you can then claim that without your ideal candidate you've no responsibility in your choice of voting/not voting.  

 
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dparker713 said:
You want to support Sanders still?  Fine.  But don't claim that he's got a chance outside a miracle.  And don't try to claim the actual candidates are both equally bad.  

If we're being honest, we can just recognize that justice in this country has never and will never be blind.  
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I do disagree it's "miracle" level.  And I don't claim they're equally bad. 

 
dparker713 said:
You want to support Sanders still?  Fine.  But don't claim that he's got a chance outside a miracle.  And don't try to claim the actual candidates are both equally bad.  

If we're being honest, we can just recognize that justice in this country has never and will never be blind.  

ETA - My main problem is really with people washing their hands of the whole thing.  You might have wanted someone else, but you were outvoted.  That doesn't mean you can then claim that without your ideal candidate you've no responsibility in your choice of voting/not voting.  
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If I thought they were equally bad I'd sit out instead of voting for Trump. 

 
dparker713 said:
ETA - My main problem is really with people washing their hands of the whole thing.  You might have wanted someone else, but you were outvoted.  That doesn't mean you can then claim that without your ideal candidate you've no responsibility in your choice of voting/not voting.  
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Of course you can. If you keep on voting for the same dogfood these parties have been serving up, you'll never get anything but that on the menu. You may want to cozy up to being hostage of a political system that keeps sticking us with lousy candidates, but you don't get to cast stones at people who want something better and have realized that doesn't happen by reinforcing bad candidates via voting for them.

 
Gr00vus said:
Of course you can. If you keep on voting for the same dogfood these parties have been serving up, you'll never get anything but that on the menu. You may want to cozy up to being hostage of a political system that keeps sticking us with lousy candidates, but you don't get to cast stones at people who want something better and have realized that doesn't happen by reinforcing bad candidates via voting for them.
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Again, that's a choice with consequences.  Just because you want better options doesn't mean your choice to vote third party/not at all doesn't contribute to the outcome of one of Tump or Hillary winning.

 
dparker713 said:
Again, that's a choice with consequences.  Just because you want better options doesn't mean your choice to vote third party/not at all doesn't contribute to the outcome of one of Tump or Hillary winning.
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Of course it contributes to the outcome, that's the whole point, the idea is that by not voting for them, it's an indication that the given candidates are unsatisfactory. But you were talking about responsibility. People choosing not to vote for either one are taking their responsibility seriously. Just because they're not agreeing with the choice you've made for yourself does not mean they are being irresponsible.

 
Gr00vus said:
Of course it contributes to the outcome, that's the whole point, the idea is that by not voting for them, it's an indication that the given candidates are unsatisfactory. But you were talking about responsibility. People choosing not to vote for either one are taking their responsibility seriously. Just because they're not agreeing with the choice you've made for yourself does not mean they are being irresponsible.
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That's rich.  The main theme of these posts is that if everyone would have just voted for Bernie, Trump would be in a much worse position.  But because others voted in Hillary, it won't be your fault if Trump wins cause your voting someone else or not at all.  

It's your choice.  You can send a message, you can choose a candidate, you can choose to not vote.  But you are personally responsible for your actions and how they contribute to the overall outcome of this coming election.  

 
dparker713 said:
That's rich.  The main theme of these posts is that if everyone would have just voted for Bernie, Trump would be in a much worse position.  But because others voted in Hillary, it won't be your fault if Trump wins cause your voting someone else or not at all.  

It's your choice.  You can send a message, you can choose a candidate, you can choose to not vote.  But you are personally responsible for your actions and how they contribute to the overall outcome of this coming election.  
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This has nothing to do with Sanders.

It won't be my fault if Trump wins. I won't be voting for him. It's that simple.

No one has some sort of moral obligation to vote for one piece of #### just to keep another piece of #### out of office. I'd say you have more of a moral obligation to vote for someone you don't think is a piece of ####, or not vote for that office at all if your goal is to get better people into office. That's the only way to force the parties to stop giving us pieces of #### for candidates, or have the parties become irrelevant. That's what I think our responsibility is as voters.

 
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Gr00vus said:
This has nothing to do with Sanders.

It won't be my fault if Trump wins. I won't be voting for him. It's that simple.

No one has some sort of moral obligation to vote for one piece of #### just to keep another piece of #### out of office. I'd say you have more of a moral obligation to vote for someone you don't think is a piece of ####, or not vote for that office at all if your goal is to get better people into office. That's the only way to force the parties to stop nominating pieces of ####, or have the parties become irrelevant. That's what I think our responsibility is as voters.
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"The Parties" didn't nominate Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump. The voters did. 

 
Gr00vus said:
Thanks captain pedantic, I've edited my post for accuracy.
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Not meant to be pedantic. But your use of the term "the parties" implies that, at least in Hillary's case, this was a fait accompli that had nothing to do with the voters. Which many Bernie fans apparently believe. 

 
Gr00vus said:
This has nothing to do with Sanders.

It won't be my fault if Trump wins. I won't be voting for him. It's that simple.

No one has some sort of moral obligation to vote for one piece of #### just to keep another piece of #### out of office. I'd say you have more of a moral obligation to vote for someone you don't think is a piece of ####, or not vote for that office at all if your goal is to get better people into office. That's the only way to force the parties to stop giving us pieces of #### for candidates, or have the parties become irrelevant. That's what I think our responsibility is as voters.
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Less so than someone that votes for him.  More so than someone that votes for the democratic nominee.

 
dparker713 said:
Less so than someone that votes for him.  More so than someone that votes for the democratic nominee.
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Not at all.

Things don't get better by playing the lesser of two evils game. They get worse. We don't have to vote for anyone. I'm not going to give someone a false sense of my approval by voting for them when I think they're a bad candidate. My non-vote for both candidates sends the message I think needs to be sent. That's my responsibility for my vote.

If Trump truly is the horrific candidate you think him to be, he'll lose without my vote for his main opponent - unless his main opponent is worse.

It's funny how the HRC supporters keep piping up with the "will of the people", "the people have spoken" thing in regards to HRC beating Sanders, but they can't accept the same when it's their own lousy candidate who might end up on the wrong side of it.

 
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timschochet said:
"The Parties" didn't nominate Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump. The voters did. 
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Considering neither candidate for the Democratic nomination will meet the pledged delegate minimum, the party will most definitely have a say (i.e., party insiders and lobbyists).

On top of that, there's all the other party rules put in place to promote the establishment candidate. Plus outright fraud and voter roll purging. But I'm sure that's not on the party in your opinion, right?

 
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timschochet said:
I regard Debbie Wasserman Schultz as a scapegoat. There's no doubt that she would prefer Hillary Clinton, based on close ties with the Democratic Party. Bernie is an outsider who hasn't really worked to help other Dems get elected, so naturally there's going to be an allegiance to someone who has. That's what the Establishment is all about and I continue to argue the fact that it's a good thing for our country that we generally do things this way. 

But there is a big difference between DWS being for Hillary Clinton and DWS deliberately corrupting her role as DNC chairwoman, breaking the rules, acting in a dishonorable fashion, all of which she has been accused of by Bernie fans. Those are pretty harsh claims, and they're being accepted with lack of evidence. And this is happening IMO because the Bernie people refuse to accept the fact that they lost this election because far more people preferred Hillary Clinton. So they look for excuses, and attacking a well meaning woman seems to be in vogue. IMO that's pretty shameful. Reminds me strongly of the Seattle Seahawks fans in 2005 attacking the refs after the Super Bowl in which the Steelers kicked their asses. Same bunch of whiners. 
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Wasserman Shultz deserves everything she's getting.  She had every opportunity to diffuse the situation by giving a voice to the people (and arguably still achieved her same preferred end result) but she chose to railroad through her agenda, because she was afraid of the Sanders support.  She made a ton of mistakes and certainly didn't fulfill her fiduciary duty to remain as an impartial arbiter.  She needs to go.  Period.  "Well meaning woman?"  Please.  What she did was sick and disgusting and hopefully actionable.  

This is nothing like the Seahags complaining about the Steelers win in 2005.  

 
dparker713 said:
You want to support Sanders still?  Fine.  But don't claim that he's got a chance outside a miracle.  And don't try to claim the actual candidates are both equally bad.  

If we're being honest, we can just recognize that justice in this country has never and will never be blind.  

ETA - My main problem is really with people washing their hands of the whole thing.  You might have wanted someone else, but you were outvoted.  That doesn't mean you can then claim that without your ideal candidate you've no responsibility in your choice of voting/not voting.  
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Who's saying this?  I still plan on voting.  That's my responsibility.  Where I take issue with the :hophead: is when I am told I am "wasting my vote" or "the problem" because I refuse to vote for a substandard dem or repub.  That's straight up bull####....always has been, always will be.

 
dparker713 said:
You want to support Sanders still?  Fine.  But don't claim that he's got a chance outside a miracle.  And don't try to claim the actual candidates are both equally bad.  

If we're being honest, we can just recognize that justice in this country has never and will never be blind.  

ETA - My main problem is really with people washing their hands of the whole thing.  You might have wanted someone else, but you were outvoted.  That doesn't mean you can then claim that without your ideal candidate you've no responsibility in your choice of voting/not voting.  
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Reality 101 here for Sander's supporters

 
Here's the thing for the Hillary camp.  You act as though you're entitled to Bernie supporters' votes, just because we all play for the "liberal" team.  Well you have no problem reminding us that Bernie isn't a "Democrat" when discussing super delegates or Debbie Wasserman Shultz, but then in the same breath you are aghast that we would suggest not supporting HRC in the national if she's the candidate.  Bernie supporters aren't your regular Democrats.  They're democrats, independents, and republicans disillusioned by the tea party pandering.  They're the people who are fed up with our politicians being bought and sold.  So when you pretend that they should just vote for HRC because "Supreme Court" or "Lesser Evil," you just don't get it.  Yeah, many of us may suck it up and vote for her because it's Trump, but if it were Romney, McCain, Ryan or Kucinch, she'd be a lesser choice.  "I'm not Trump" is hardly an inspirational campaign slogan.  And even with that, polls (oh, its too early to care about those), show she may even lose to Trump.

Stop acting like you're entitled to our vote.  You're not.  Stop acting like if you don't win it's our fault.  It isn't.  Stop manipulating the DNC (even if the final results don't change).  Instead, realize why we're so passionate.  Empathize.  HEAR US.  Don't just put a few bullet points on your website, but instead actively add things to your speeches.  Denounce corporate money in politics.  Today.  Right now.  Stop accepting money from Goldman Sachs.  From Super Pacs.  Shut down all of your five figure a plate fundraisers and start meeting with the people. Show us you understand "the revolution."  If we believe you and see you moving that way, we can get on board with your candidacy.  But ignore us, believe you can win without us, discard and disrespect us...then you run the risk of us not voting you or opposing you.  And that isn't our failure.  That's 100% on you.  Own it.  Earn our votes.  Our issues are out there.  I actually believe you could do it.  I wish you would.

 
Idiot Boxer said:
Stop acting like you're entitled to our vote.  You're not.  Stop acting like if you don't win it's our fault.  It isn't.  Stop manipulating the DNC (even if the final results don't change).  Instead, realize why we're so passionate.  Empathize.  HEAR US.  Don't just put a few bullet points on your website, but instead actively add things to your speeches.  Denounce corporate money in politics.  Today.  Right now.  Stop accepting money from Goldman Sachs.  From Super Pacs.  Shut down all of your five figure a plate fundraisers and start meeting with the people. Show us you understand "the revolution."  If we believe you and see you moving that way, we can get on board with your candidacy.  But ignore us, believe you can win without us, discard and disrespect us...then you run the risk of us not voting you or opposing you.  And that isn't our failure.  That's 100% on you.  Own it.  Earn our votes.  Our issues are out there.  I actually believe you could do it.  I wish you would.
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Hillary's going to continue to accept corporate money. We understand "the revolution"; we just don't want it. Vote for Hillary if you want to avoid Trump, but don't expect any favors. 

 
Bernie's 15 minutes of fame are almost over, and he's decided to go out bitter old man style as opposed to to working with others to fix the system.  It's unfortunate to see, but perhaps fitting.  

 
Idiot Boxer said:
Here's the thing for the Hillary camp.  You act as though you're entitled to Bernie supporters' votes, just because we all play for the "liberal" team.  Well you have no problem reminding us that Bernie isn't a "Democrat" when discussing super delegates or Debbie Wasserman Shultz, but then in the same breath you are aghast that we would suggest not supporting HRC in the national if she's the candidate.  Bernie supporters aren't your regular Democrats.  They're democrats, independents, and republicans disillusioned by the tea party pandering.  They're the people who are fed up with our politicians being bought and sold.  So when you pretend that they should just vote for HRC because "Supreme Court" or "Lesser Evil," you just don't get it.  Yeah, many of us may suck it up and vote for her because it's Trump, but if it were Romney, McCain, Ryan or Kucinch, she'd be a lesser choice.  "I'm not Trump" is hardly an inspirational campaign slogan.  And even with that, polls (oh, its too early to care about those), show she may even lose to Trump.

Stop acting like you're entitled to our vote.  You're not.  Stop acting like if you don't win it's our fault.  It isn't.  Stop manipulating the DNC (even if the final results don't change).  Instead, realize why we're so passionate.  Empathize.  HEAR US.  Don't just put a few bullet points on your website, but instead actively add things to your speeches.  Denounce corporate money in politics.  Today.  Right now.  Stop accepting money from Goldman Sachs.  From Super Pacs.  Shut down all of your five figure a plate fundraisers and start meeting with the people. Show us you understand "the revolution."  If we believe you and see you moving that way, we can get on board with your candidacy.  But ignore us, believe you can win without us, discard and disrespect us...then you run the risk of us not voting you or opposing you.  And that isn't our failure.  That's 100% on you.  Own it.  Earn our votes.  Our issues are out there.  I actually believe you could do it.  I wish you would.
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Em thinks you just buried a lot of HTC supporters with that post. 

 
Idiot Boxer said:
Here's the thing for the Hillary camp.  You act as though you're entitled to Bernie supporters' votes, just because we all play for the "liberal" team.  Well you have no problem reminding us that Bernie isn't a "Democrat" when discussing super delegates or Debbie Wasserman Shultz, but then in the same breath you are aghast that we would suggest not supporting HRC in the national if she's the candidate.  Bernie supporters aren't your regular Democrats.  They're democrats, independents, and republicans disillusioned by the tea party pandering.  They're the people who are fed up with our politicians being bought and sold.  So when you pretend that they should just vote for HRC because "Supreme Court" or "Lesser Evil," you just don't get it.  Yeah, many of us may suck it up and vote for her because it's Trump, but if it were Romney, McCain, Ryan or Kucinch, she'd be a lesser choice.  "I'm not Trump" is hardly an inspirational campaign slogan.  And even with that, polls (oh, its too early to care about those), show she may even lose to Trump.

Stop acting like you're entitled to our vote.  You're not.  Stop acting like if you don't win it's our fault.  It isn't.  Stop manipulating the DNC (even if the final results don't change).  Instead, realize why we're so passionate.  Empathize.  HEAR US.  Don't just put a few bullet points on your website, but instead actively add things to your speeches.  Denounce corporate money in politics.  Today.  Right now.  Stop accepting money from Goldman Sachs.  From Super Pacs.  Shut down all of your five figure a plate fundraisers and start meeting with the people. Show us you understand "the revolution."  If we believe you and see you moving that way, we can get on board with your candidacy.  But ignore us, believe you can win without us, discard and disrespect us...then you run the risk of us not voting you or opposing you.  And that isn't our failure.  That's 100% on you.  Own it.  Earn our votes.  Our issues are out there.  I actually believe you could do it.  I wish you would.
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Nothing but love IB, but I want no part of "the revolution".  That's not how politics works, and even if it did, many of his economic policies don't stand up to scrutiny even from liberal slanted economists.  

Shouting isn't governing. :shrug:   

 
tommyGunZ said:
Nothing but love IB, but I want no part of "the revolution".  That's not how politics works, and even if it did, many of his economic policies don't stand up to scrutiny even from liberal slanted economists.  

Shouting isn't governing. :shrug:   
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Nothing but love back to you, but no one's been shouting.  At least no one was until was until they were being completely disregarded.  The steamroller that has been DWS and the DNC just isn't inspiring anyone in the Bernie camp. It's alienating them.  You want to roll the dice that you don't need them.  Fine.  Maybe you don't.  But if you lose, you have no one to blame but yourself.

For me.  I don't buy into 100% of Bernie's platform.  He's a little too pro-union for me.  But we desperately need corporate money out of politics.  Unless you believe that Big-Pharma, Wall Street firms and Fossil Fuel companies represent the interests of the middle class, you probably should agree with that at minimum.

I'm with him on single payer and minimum wage.  Free college?  I'm not sure.  I'd want to see how that sets up.  Alternative fuels?  Hell yes, but...in a way that makes a decent transition.  I don't think we need to shock the system too much there.

But he's the only one talking about any of it.  Status quo (which is what I think HRC stands for) isn't terrible.  It just isn't progress to me.  But I'm the guy HRC needs to court.  Right now, I'll vote for her over Trump just because of "other concerns.  But she and the DNC are dangerously close to losing me because of the "we don't need you, we don't hear you" attitude.

 
tommyGunZ said:
Bernie's 15 minutes of fame are almost over, and he's decided to go out bitter old man style as opposed to to working with others to fix the system.  It's unfortunate to see, but perhaps fitting.  
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Dude's been working with others to fix the system for going on 4 decades.

Hillary has spent a nearly equal amount of time lining her coffers. Which is why a man like Robert Reich, who has known Hillary for 50 years, realizes she isn't the right woman for the job. 

You'll wake up before another 50 years passes.

 
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Idiot Boxer said:
Here's the thing for the Hillary camp.  You act as though you're entitled to Bernie supporters' votes, just because we all play for the "liberal" team.  Well you have no problem reminding us that Bernie isn't a "Democrat" when discussing super delegates or Debbie Wasserman Shultz, but then in the same breath you are aghast that we would suggest not supporting HRC in the national if she's the candidate.  Bernie supporters aren't your regular Democrats.  They're democrats, independents, and republicans disillusioned by the tea party pandering.  They're the people who are fed up with our politicians being bought and sold.  So when you pretend that they should just vote for HRC because "Supreme Court" or "Lesser Evil," you just don't get it.  Yeah, many of us may suck it up and vote for her because it's Trump, but if it were Romney, McCain, Ryan or Kucinch, she'd be a lesser choice.  "I'm not Trump" is hardly an inspirational campaign slogan.  And even with that, polls (oh, its too early to care about those), show she may even lose to Trump.

Stop acting like you're entitled to our vote.  You're not.  Stop acting like if you don't win it's our fault.  It isn't.  Stop manipulating the DNC (even if the final results don't change).  Instead, realize why we're so passionate.  Empathize.  HEAR US.  Don't just put a few bullet points on your website, but instead actively add things to your speeches.  Denounce corporate money in politics.  Today.  Right now.  Stop accepting money from Goldman Sachs.  From Super Pacs.  Shut down all of your five figure a plate fundraisers and start meeting with the people. Show us you understand "the revolution."  If we believe you and see you moving that way, we can get on board with your candidacy.  But ignore us, believe you can win without us, discard and disrespect us...then you run the risk of us not voting you or opposing you.  And that isn't our failure.  That's 100% on you.  Own it.  Earn our votes.  Our issues are out there.  I actually believe you could do it.  I wish you would.
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Scho won't understand a word of this.

 
Idiot Boxer said:
 Instead, realize why we're so passionate.  Empathize.  HEAR US.  
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See. if I'm thirsty. I don't want a glass of water, I want you to sympathize. I want you to say, "Gloria, I too know what it feels like to be thirsty. I too have had a dry mouth." I want you to connect with me through sharing and understanding the concept of dry mouthedness.

 
The Commish said:
Who's saying this?  I still plan on voting.  That's my responsibility.  Where I take issue with the :hophead: is when I am told I am "wasting my vote" or "the problem" because I refuse to vote for a substandard dem or repub.  That's straight up bull####....always has been, always will be.
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I've not once said anyone wastes a vote, nor that they're the problem.  I've said they've responsibility for the consequences of their vote.  Whether you vote for A, B, or other, your convictions don't absolve you from your portion of the responsibility.  

 
dparker713 said:
See. if I'm thirsty. I don't want a glass of water, I want you to sympathize. I want you to say, "Gloria, I too know what it feels like to be thirsty. I too have had a dry mouth." I want you to connect with me through sharing and understanding the concept of dry mouthedness.
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Hillary isn't offering water or understanding.  Instead she's just counting on everyone believing that Trump is bringing more drought than she is.

 
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dparker713 said:
See. if I'm thirsty. I don't want a glass of water, I want you to sympathize. I want you to say, "Gloria, I too know what it feels like to be thirsty. I too have had a dry mouth." I want you to connect with me through sharing and understanding the concept of dry mouthedness.
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I know Trump is worse than Hillary.  But, it's really up for debate whose supporters are worse.  You do not help elevate Hillary's camp.

 
cobalt_27 said:
I know Trump is worse than Hillary.  But, it's really up for debate whose supporters are worse.  You do not help elevate Hillary's camp.
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It's a quote from White Men Can't Jump.  If you don't like that movie, you're more of a monster than Pol Pot.

ETA - Also, I'm not a Hillary supporter - I'm anti Trump.  He's the worst political candidate I can remember.  He's dangerous and ignorant and if your man Bernie were the nominee I'd vote for him too.

 
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Idiot Boxer said:
Here's the thing for the Hillary camp.  You act as though you're entitled to Bernie supporters' votes, just because we all play for the "liberal" team.  Well you have no problem reminding us that Bernie isn't a "Democrat" when discussing super delegates or Debbie Wasserman Shultz, but then in the same breath you are aghast that we would suggest not supporting HRC in the national if she's the candidate.  Bernie supporters aren't your regular Democrats.  They're democrats, independents, and republicans disillusioned by the tea party pandering.  They're the people who are fed up with our politicians being bought and sold.  So when you pretend that they should just vote for HRC because "Supreme Court" or "Lesser Evil," you just don't get it.  Yeah, many of us may suck it up and vote for her because it's Trump, but if it were Romney, McCain, Ryan or Kucinch, she'd be a lesser choice.  "I'm not Trump" is hardly an inspirational campaign slogan.  And even with that, polls (oh, its too early to care about those), show she may even lose to Trump.

Stop acting like you're entitled to our vote.  You're not.  Stop acting like if you don't win it's our fault.  It isn't.  Stop manipulating the DNC (even if the final results don't change).  Instead, realize why we're so passionate.  Empathize.  HEAR US.  Don't just put a few bullet points on your website, but instead actively add things to your speeches.  Denounce corporate money in politics.  Today.  Right now.  Stop accepting money from Goldman Sachs.  From Super Pacs.  Shut down all of your five figure a plate fundraisers and start meeting with the people. Show us you understand "the revolution."  If we believe you and see you moving that way, we can get on board with your candidacy.  But ignore us, believe you can win without us, discard and disrespect us...then you run the risk of us not voting you or opposing you.  And that isn't our failure.  That's 100% on you.  Own it.  Earn our votes.  Our issues are out there.  I actually believe you could do it.  I wish you would.
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A couple things:

- don't let over-zealous Hillary supporters and game that the DNC tried to rig stop you from voting for her.  There's a lot on the line and it doesn't solve anything to get bitter and give up.

- hold onto the enthusiasm that has you supporting Bernie and continue to support more progressive candidates.  The only way to defeat the DNC machine and make it what you want to be is beat them democratically.  It's heartening to me that Bernie came so close - next time we can have a better candidate (no offense to Bernie but he's flawed) who will win and more the progressive agenda forward.

Hillary isn't the Democratic President we want, but I want you to imagine a U.S. that has had 16 straight years of a Democrat in the White House and a progressive Democrat taking office in 2024.  If big things like single payer and free college are what you want then don't set progress back by electing Trump.

 
dparker713 said:
See. if I'm thirsty. I don't want a glass of water, I want you to sympathize. I want you to say, "Gloria, I too know what it feels like to be thirsty. I too have had a dry mouth." I want you to connect with me through sharing and understanding the concept of dry mouthedness.
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You know, actually, thank you for this.  It's the perfect analogy.  Hillary isn't going to provide you water.  Not enough to survive long term anyway.  its that she's going to give you enough water to survive for a year or two more than Trump will.  And for that we are supposed to be grateful.  Not sure why she's surprised that some people might prefer to pull the plug right now.  

 
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