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Bernie Sanders HQ! *A decent human being. (9 Viewers)

dparker713 said:
It's a quote from White Men Can't Jump.  If you don't like that movie, you're more of a monster than Pol Pot.
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Either it's a random post or you were trying to make a point by posting it.  If it was random, I apologize.  If you were making a point, I stand by my statement.

 
dparker713 said:
It's a quote from White Men Can't Jump.  If you don't like that movie, you're more of a monster than Pol Pot.

ETA - Also, I'm not a Hillary supporter - I'm anti Trump.  He's the worst political candidate I can remember.  He's dangerous and ignorant and if your man Bernie were the nominee I'd vote for him too.
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'My man' Bernie is not my guy, actually.  But, he's not as bad as Hillary, and I think he would have a better chance against Trump.  But, the machine was too much for a surprising formidable insurgent candidate, so we are stuck with Hillary and supporters--supporters!!!--comparing her to Nixon.  Favorably.  

I rest my case.

 
cobalt_27 said:
Either it's a random post or you were trying to make a point by posting it.  If it was random, I apologize.  If you were making a point, I stand by my statement.
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His rant just reminded me of that scene - I often think in terms of movie quotes.  Plus, levity.  As much as there is rancor in here, the differences are smaller than we're sometimes making them out to be.

 
Idiot Boxer said:
You know, actually, thank you for this.  It's the perfect analogy.  Hillary isn't going to provide you water.  Not enough to survive long term anyway.  its that she's going to give you enough water to survive for a year or two more than Trump will.  And for that we are supposed to be grateful.  Not sure why she's surprised that some people might prefer to pull the plug right now.  
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Cause life fights to live, no matter the circumstances.  It's what life does.  Strives to survive, despite the odds.  Take the extra time, maybe you can do something with it.

 
Idiot Boxer said:
Here's the thing for the Hillary camp.  You act as though you're entitled to Bernie supporters' votes, just because we all play for the "liberal" team.  Well you have no problem reminding us that Bernie isn't a "Democrat" when discussing super delegates or Debbie Wasserman Shultz, but then in the same breath you are aghast that we would suggest not supporting HRC in the national if she's the candidate.  Bernie supporters aren't your regular Democrats.  They're democrats, independents, and republicans disillusioned by the tea party pandering.  They're the people who are fed up with our politicians being bought and sold.  So when you pretend that they should just vote for HRC because "Supreme Court" or "Lesser Evil," you just don't get it.  Yeah, many of us may suck it up and vote for her because it's Trump, but if it were Romney, McCain, Ryan or Kucinch, she'd be a lesser choice.  "I'm not Trump" is hardly an inspirational campaign slogan.  And even with that, polls (oh, its too early to care about those), show she may even lose to Trump.

Stop acting like you're entitled to our vote.  You're not.  Stop acting like if you don't win it's our fault.  It isn't.  Stop manipulating the DNC (even if the final results don't change).  Instead, realize why we're so passionate.  Empathize.  HEAR US.  Don't just put a few bullet points on your website, but instead actively add things to your speeches.  Denounce corporate money in politics.  Today.  Right now.  Stop accepting money from Goldman Sachs.  From Super Pacs.  Shut down all of your five figure a plate fundraisers and start meeting with the people. Show us you understand "the revolution."  If we believe you and see you moving that way, we can get on board with your candidacy.  But ignore us, believe you can win without us, discard and disrespect us...then you run the risk of us not voting you or opposing you.  And that isn't our failure.  That's 100% on you.  Own it.  Earn our votes.  Our issues are out there.  I actually believe you could do it.  I wish you would.
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Idiot Boxer said:
Nothing but love back to you, but no one's been shouting.  At least no one was until was until they were being completely disregarded.  The steamroller that has been DWS and the DNC just isn't inspiring anyone in the Bernie camp. It's alienating them.  You want to roll the dice that you don't need them.  Fine.  Maybe you don't.  But if you lose, you have no one to blame but yourself.

For me.  I don't buy into 100% of Bernie's platform.  He's a little too pro-union for me.  But we desperately need corporate money out of politics.  Unless you believe that Big-Pharma, Wall Street firms and Fossil Fuel companies represent the interests of the middle class, you probably should agree with that at minimum.

I'm with him on single payer and minimum wage.  Free college?  I'm not sure.  I'd want to see how that sets up.  Alternative fuels?  Hell yes, but...in a way that makes a decent transition.  I don't think we need to shock the system too much there.

But he's the only one talking about any of it.  Status quo (which is what I think HRC stands for) isn't terrible.  It just isn't progress to me.  But I'm the guy HRC needs to court.  Right now, I'll vote for her over Trump just because of "other concerns.  But she and the DNC are dangerously close to losing me because of the "we don't need you, we don't hear you" attitude.
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good stuff here.

 
dparker713 said:
The Commish said:
Who's saying this?  I still plan on voting.  That's my responsibility.  Where I take issue with the :hophead: is when I am told I am "wasting my vote" or "the problem" because I refuse to vote for a substandard dem or repub.  That's straight up bull####....always has been, always will be.
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I've not once said anyone wastes a vote, nor that they're the problem.  I've said they've responsibility for the consequences of their vote.  Whether you vote for A, B, or other, your convictions don't absolve you from your portion of the responsibility.  
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I'll play the little semantics game.  What's the "consequence" of someone voting outside of dem or repub?

 
By using his newsletter to attempt to "primary" DWS, Bernie is carving a role for himself as the head of the Tea Party equivalent within the Democratic Party. 

 
The Commish said:
I'll play the little semantics game.  What's the "consequence" of someone voting outside of dem or repub?
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Its like being given the option to die in the electric chair, or by hanging.

I really don't understand why people don't just choose death by hanging - its definitely the lesser of two evils.  People should be jumping for joy at the ability to make that choice.  And if you don't make a choice, and somebody chooses death by electric chair for you - its your own damn fault.  You could have died by hanging, if only you cared a little more.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Its like being given the option to die in the electric chair, or by hanging.

I really don't understand why people don't just choose death by hanging - its definitely the lesser of two evils.  People should be jumping for joy at the ability to make that choice.  And if you don't make a choice, and somebody chooses death by electric chair for you - its your own damn fault.  You could have died by hanging, if only you cared a little more.
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Lol. I really think you understate it here. Why not compare it to genocide by gas chamber vs mass shootings? 

 
timschochet said:
Sinn Fein said:
Its like being given the option to die in the electric chair, or by hanging.

I really don't understand why people don't just choose death by hanging - its definitely the lesser of two evils.  People should be jumping for joy at the ability to make that choice.  And if you don't make a choice, and somebody chooses death by electric chair for you - its your own damn fault.  You could have died by hanging, if only you cared a little more.
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Lol. I really think you understate it here. Why not compare it to genocide by gas chamber vs mass shootings? 
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Says the guy who thinks Trump will become dictator if elected :lol:   

 
timschochet said:
The Commish said:
Says the guy who thinks Trump will become dictator if elected :lol:   
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I think he wants to be one. I think he has authoritarian tendencies. And I don't think that many of his supporters would care. 

I don't think any of this is a laughing matter. I find it terrifying. 
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What you think he wants and what you think he can actually do are two completely different things.  You think this can happen...nice trying to subtly shift the goal posts though :thumbup:   

And it absolutely IS a cornucopia of laughter and comedy.  

 
timschochet said:
I think he wants to be one. I think he has authoritarian tendencies. And I don't think that many of his supporters would care. 

I don't think any of this is a laughing matter. I find it terrifying. 
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Yet, Bill and HRC trying to get in 16 years running the country have no authoritarian tendencies.  :thumbup:     I see you working there.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Its like being given the option to die in the electric chair, or by hanging.

I really don't understand why people don't just choose death by hanging - its definitely the lesser of two evils.  People should be jumping for joy at the ability to make that choice.  And if you don't make a choice, and somebody chooses death by electric chair for you - its your own damn fault.  You could have died by hanging, if only you cared a little more.
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:lmao: at comparing Hillary as President to death by hanging. 

 
timschochet said:
By using his newsletter to attempt to "primary" DWS, Bernie is carving a role for himself as the head of the Tea Party equivalent within the Democratic Party. 
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There's nothing extreme about switching to a single payer system, in fact it makes financial sense.

Also nothing extreme about providing a college education to people who will pay higher taxes the rest of their lives as a result.

 
cstu said:
There's nothing extreme about switching to a single payer system, in fact it makes financial sense.

Also nothing extreme about providing a college education to people who will pay higher taxes the rest of their lives as a result.
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It's extremist and not practical. 

Unless Hillary lobbies for it. Then it's a great idea she clearly thought of first and totally viable. 

 
AnonymousBob said:
It's extremist and not practical. 

Unless Hillary lobbies for it. Then it's a great idea she clearly thought of first and totally viable. 
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We spend nearly twice per capita as the next highest country does for health care.  Certainly is practical in the long-term, but short-term we will need another stepping stone like a public option.

 
dparker713 said:
You'll lower the relevant vote total in your state.  You'll also cede the determination of the outcome of this particular election to others.  
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So, when you use the word "consequence" you're really using the definition dealing with results and not the "reward/punishment? part of the detinition.  I do appreciate the world you live in where somehow "relevance" of a vote is determined by whom you pull the trigger for.  However, I fail to see how I cede anything if I vote.  I don't.  That's my voice.  It might be ignored, but i don't give it up.  Quite the opposite actually.

 
Gr00vus said:
I didn't miss it. I gave it the response it deserved.
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Not really, you gave it a deflection...terrible tactic used by many here.

and Im for Bernie over Hillary any day...but speech transcripts may be one of the dumber complaints I have seen out of people this election cycle.

 
The Commish said:
So, when you use the word "consequence" you're really using the definition dealing with results and not the "reward/punishment? part of the detinition.  I do appreciate the world you live in where somehow "relevance" of a vote is determined by whom you pull the trigger for.  However, I fail to see how I cede anything if I vote.  I don't.  That's my voice.  It might be ignored, but i don't give it up.  Quite the opposite actually.
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Yes you are giving up your voice. Absolutely you are. 

Heres the deal Commish, for weeks (months) now you've been discussing your nearly inconsequential vote and how important it is to you. The ONLY importance of your vote in November is whether  it helps Hillary Clinton win or Donald Trump win. That's it. Otherwise it's absolutely meaningless. 

 
So the answer, of course, is that no, he has not released the rest of his tax returns. First, he blamed his wife being busy for the delay. Then he released some. Then he had his wife come up with a new excuse for not releasing the rest of them. And that's where we stand.

 
sho nuff said:
Not really, you gave it a deflection...terrible tactic used by many here.

and Im for Bernie over Hillary any day...but speech transcripts may be one of the dumber complaints I have seen out of people this election cycle.
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When someone is that adamant about keeping most of us in the dark about what she's saying to the privileged few, it reinforces the problems people like us Sanders supporters have with the candidate.

Why do we care about Sanders' tax returns so much? He may have a net worth of about 1M. Why aren't we more interested in the Clintons' financial situation, a family who HRC says was broke coming out of the White House, but now has an estimated wealth of $25M+ based pretty much on speaking engagements and HRC's salary from her jobs as Senator and SOS? Talk about deflection.

 
sho nuff said:
Not really, you gave it a deflection...terrible tactic used by many here.

and Im for Bernie over Hillary any day...but speech transcripts may be one of the dumber complaints I have seen out of people this election cycle.
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Don't worry about the speeches as I am sure Trump probably has a video of one in his pocket and is just waiting for the right time to drop the bomb.  

 
Gr00vus said:
When someone is that adamant about keeping most of us in the dark about what she's saying to the privileged few, it reinforces the problems people like us Sanders supporters have with the candidate.

Why do we care about Sanders' tax returns so much? He may have a net worth of about 1M. Why aren't we more interested in the Clintons' financial situation, a family who HRC says was broke coming out of the White House, but now has an estimated wealth of $25M+ based pretty much on speaking engagements and HRC's salary from her jobs as Senator and SOS? Talk about deflection.
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I think Tax returns are relevant to a person who is running this country...when they set tax policy and help set economic policy...it contains relevant information.

Which is why almost all candidates have done this for years.  Its a big reason why they all should do such things.

Speeches?  Has that ever been something candidates have released?  The Clintons have released quite a bit of financial information and tax information...have they not?

I don't think you understand the word deflection though if you think anything I did was deflecting.

 
sho nuff said:
I think Tax returns are relevant to a person who is running this country...when they set tax policy and help set economic policy...it contains relevant information.

Which is why almost all candidates have done this for years.  Its a big reason why they all should do such things.

Speeches?  Has that ever been something candidates have released?  The Clintons have released quite a bit of financial information and tax information...have they not?

I don't think you understand the word deflection though if you think anything I did was deflecting.
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Having more proof of HRC talking out of both sides of her face would be pretty interesting. People focusing on Sanders' tax returns are the ones deflecting.

 
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pantagrapher said:
So the answer, of course, is that no, he has not released the rest of his tax returns. First, he blamed his wife being busy for the delay. Then he released some. Then he had his wife come up with a new excuse for not releasing the rest of them. And that's where we stand.
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:lmao:  

 
timschochet said:
The Commish said:
So, when you use the word "consequence" you're really using the definition dealing with results and not the "reward/punishment? part of the detinition.  I do appreciate the world you live in where somehow "relevance" of a vote is determined by whom you pull the trigger for.  However, I fail to see how I cede anything if I vote.  I don't.  That's my voice.  It might be ignored, but i don't give it up.  Quite the opposite actually.
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Yes you are giving up your voice. Absolutely you are. 

Heres the deal Commish, for weeks (months) now you've been discussing your nearly inconsequential vote and how important it is to you. The ONLY importance of your vote in November is whether  it helps Hillary Clinton win or Donald Trump win. That's it. Otherwise it's absolutely meaningless. 
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It's not going to get any more true the more you repeat it Tim.  My voice will be heard on election day, just like yours.  Whether it's received or not is a different story.  The way you are bending over backwards to try and frame this simply isn't the reality we live in :shrug:   The reality we live in says that who I vote for is who I am attempting to help win.  It's nothing more than that.  The rest is just :hophead:  bull####

 
pantagrapher said:
So the answer, of course, is that no, he has not released the rest of his tax returns. First, he blamed his wife being busy for the delay. Then he released some. Then he had his wife come up with a new excuse for not releasing the rest of them. And that's where we stand.
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Thanks for the update :thumbup:   

 
pantagrapher said:
"Has Bernie released his tax returns?"

"Has Hillary argle-bargled?!"

"Soooo, has Bernie released his tax returns?"

"You're deflecting!"
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What's the reason you're interested in his tax returns exactly? You suspect he's actually a billionaire who's been playing us all?

You knew the answer to the question when you asked it, what's your purpose in bringing it up if not to deflect from how miserable the candidate you support is?

 
timschochet said:
Yes you are giving up your voice. Absolutely you are. 

Heres the deal Commish, for weeks (months) now you've been discussing your nearly inconsequential vote and how important it is to you. The ONLY importance of your vote in November is whether  it helps Hillary Clinton win or Donald Trump win. That's it. Otherwise it's absolutely meaningless. 
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And you don't see the problem with this?

 
The Commish said:
So, when you use the word "consequence" you're really using the definition dealing with results and not the "reward/punishment? part of the detinition.  I do appreciate the world you live in where somehow "relevance" of a vote is determined by whom you pull the trigger for.  However, I fail to see how I cede anything if I vote.  I don't.  That's my voice.  It might be ignored, but i don't give it up.  Quite the opposite actually.
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Huh?  That's no part of any definition of consequence.  

 
Gr00vus said:
What's the reason you're interested in his tax returns exactly? You suspect he's actually a billionaire who's been playing us all?

You knew the answer to the question when you asked it, what's your purpose in bringing it up if not to deflect from how miserable the candidate you support is?
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I'm really not getting the concern over Bernie's tax returns - his wife made a good income and Bernie is a Senator so obviously they aren't poor.  Is it somehow supposed to make him look bad if he's not destitute?

 
cstu said:
I'm really not getting the concern over Bernie's tax returns - his wife made a good income and Bernie is a Senator so obviously they aren't poor.  Is it somehow supposed to make him look bad if he's not destitute?
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I imagine the thought is there's some impropriety happening. And that would be kind of a big deal if true, given the guy is running on integrity as much as anything else. Otherwise, I really don't get it either.

 
The Commish said:
It's not going to get any more true the more you repeat it Tim.  My voice will be heard on election day, just like yours.  Whether it's received or not is a different story.  The way you are bending over backwards to try and frame this simply isn't the reality we live in :shrug:   The reality we live in says that who I vote for is who I am attempting to help win.  It's nothing more than that.  The rest is just :hophead:  bull####
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The reality we live in is a two party system.  With polling and ad dollars out the ###.  So if you vote for a candidate with no chance to win and you're aware of the situation, you're not trying to help someone win.  Making a statement, sure.  Standing on principle, fine.  But millions of others will compromise to determine which non-ideal candidate for themselves they'll back because they want that person to win.

 
dparker713 said:
The Commish said:
So, when you use the word "consequence" you're really using the definition dealing with results and not the "reward/punishment? part of the detinition.  I do appreciate the world you live in where somehow "relevance" of a vote is determined by whom you pull the trigger for.  However, I fail to see how I cede anything if I vote.  I don't.  That's my voice.  It might be ignored, but i don't give it up.  Quite the opposite actually.
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Huh?  That's no part of any definition of consequence.  
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"consequences and repercussions"...you're the movie quote guy right?

Anyway, I thought it was generally accepted that there's a pretty strong negative connotation to the word.  Perhaps that is wrong, but it seems to me that "consequences" is most used in the context (for you there squis) of describing the negative results to a decision.  If you weren't implying that, then I apologize and we can move on.  The assertions you make after your initial statement are still bull#### though.  I cede nothing by voting.  I cede my voice being heard if I don't vote and who I vote for plays no role in the relevance of that vote.

 
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