fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
Totally different, this was talking about Raul, not Fidel.Any guesses as to who said this and when?
Totally different, this was talking about Raul, not Fidel.Any guesses as to who said this and when?
Yes and better than out current POTUS.It doesn’t matter who wins the democratic nomination, but Bernie Sanders?
Are there a bunch of people who actually believe he’d make a good POTUS? Have we fallen that far as a nation? Unbelievable.
This is a good point. I voted for him in the 2016 primary so I've been on board for a while but coming to message boards like this and seeing people act like he's completely insane or something is kind of baffling to me.I relate to those feelings. Four years ago I was massively anti-Trump, and only slightly less anti-Sanders.
Then something weird happened: I started to really examine the problems that Sanders is talking about in an evidence-based way. And I came to the conclusion that I wasn't being very logical. So I watched some longer form interviews with him and really listened to what he had to say (and what he didn't). And now I would call myself a moderately energized supporter.
And we're not supporting Obama for the candidacy in 2020 anyway. Politics often relies so very much on optics.Totally different, this was talking about Raul, not Fidel.
Well, technically I'm still on Team Warren for about another week or two until she drops out. But after that I'm all in on Bernie.The best way to answer is by rallying around Sanders' platform while conceding it's not the best look (which I know you've done). His policy truly is something to believe in.
We can be on multiple teams at once imo. I get heat for it, but I support Pete Buttigieg and Amy Klobuchar almost as much as I do Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.Well, technically I'm still on Team Warren for about another week or two until she drops out. But after that I'm all in on Bernie.
The education and medical systems he praised and congratulated them for were from Fidel, right?Totally different, this was talking about Raul, not Fidel.
Obviously 9th and you're an idiot like the anti-Bernie people if you say otherwise!I say this as a person who moderately likes Bernie and will happily vote for him in the general election:
The slapfighting on the internets between the rabidly pro-Bernie folks and the rabidly anti-Bernie folks reminds me of the idiots who worked themselves into a froth arguing over whether the 8th installment of Star Wars was better than the 9th installment of Star Wars (I may have been the only person on the planet that liked both movies).
Yeah, you're probably right -- I'm just still riled up from an unexpectedly good Nevada result. I'll probably slink back into the shadows in another day or two.I say this as a person who moderately likes Bernie and will happily vote for him in the general election:
The slapfighting on the internets between the rabidly pro-Bernie folks and the rabidly anti-Bernie folks reminds me of the idiots who worked themselves into a froth arguing over whether the 8th installment of Star Wars was better than the 9th installment of Star Wars (I may have been the only person on the planet that liked both movies).
IMPORTANT EDIT: I'm not saying either pro-Bernie or anti-Bernie folks are idiots. I guess I'm saying that people who argue on the internet about Star Wars are generally idiots, but I probably don't really mean that, either. It's just sounds fun to say.
UNTIL BERNIE WINS SOUTH CAROLINAYeah, you're probably right -- I'm just still riled up from an unexpectedly good Nevada result. I'll probably slink back into the shadows in another day or two.
The more time that goes on, the more fired up I am about getting on the Bernie train. I like his ideas. I like him. He's a good guy. I'm a little afraid he'll be demonized by the right, but EVERYONE coming out from the Dem side is flawed (as a candidate) in some way. I don't think Bernie is any more flawed (as a candidate) than the others.Yeah, you're probably right -- I'm just still riled up from an unexpectedly good Nevada result. I'll probably slink back into the shadows in another day or two.
I'm convinced Bernie pulls ahead. I'm terrified that Clinton dems will get cold feet or buy into the Bloomberg narrative that Bernie can't win, and try and contest the convention. Good grief.UNTIL BERNIE WINS SOUTH CAROLINA
You’ve got the wrong guy . In 2008 I voted Obama but went with Mittens McCain in 2012. I do think he was a disappointment but not horrible.Meh - Hitler, Obama - same difference. Amirite @HellToupee?
This is a good framing by O, but it is pretty different than what Sanders does.Any guesses as to who said this and when?
Barack Obama, 2016
Is it comforting that his proposals aren’t as crazy as Trump’s? Keeping in mind that we now have a space force?It's kind of funny to see people squirm on the topic.
They know they've been told Bernie is super-extreme and out of his mind, but they have a tougher time when it gets down to actual specifics.
I mean Trump said he'd build a wall and Mexico would pay for it.
But Bernie's the crazy one with all of his impossible proposals!
There's stuff from his past that can be effectively spun negatively. Sanders's struggles in early adulthood, his personal financial situation now, statements (out of context or otherwise) in support of socialist ideas/policies over the course of his career, being a career politician. I don't think HRC really hit him as hard on that stuff as they could have. The RNC will make the most they can out of those things. Unlike HRC however there hasn't been 25 years of unrelenting hate directed Sanders's way by the RNC, so there's less resistance/bad will to him baked in to the electorate.Maybe others can help me figure out what vetting Bernie hasn't gone through yet that would significantly change anyone's view of him. The guy went H2H against Hillary in a closer than expected primary. When it comes to digging up dirt and winning an election she can be pretty ruthless.
I watched two long form interviews with him yesterday. He will occasionally do tangents, but only relevant ones. He has command of facts and figures that have an impact. Overall, he does well in a situation where the interviewer is actually seeking real answers and to understand him. I don't know how he does when the interviewer is looking to play gotcha or manufacture dumb soundbites. I'd imagine less well, but that is probably true of everybody.There's stuff from his past that can be effectively spun negatively. Sanders's struggles in early adulthood, his personal financial situation now, statements (out of context or otherwise) in support of socialist ideas/policies over the course of his career, being a career politician. I don't think HRC really hit him as hard on that stuff as they could have. The RNC will make the most they can out of those things. Unlike HRC however there hasn't been 25 years of unrelenting hate directed Sanders's way by the RNC, so there's less resistance/bad will to him baked in to the electorate.
I think Sanders will bear up if subjected to that scrutiny. He's cagey, he's tough, and he doesn't back down. A rhetoric battle between him and Trump will be fascinating to witness. Neither he or Trump are conventional in terms of the way they conduct themselves on the podium, either solo or in a debate setting. Both do the angry old guy schtick pretty well. I think a differentiating factor is that Sanders seems less prone to rambling than Trump. I think Sanders has an advantage there, if Trump leaves an opening, Bernie will land a counter. HRC would sometimes leave that kind of stuff on the table, or respond too slowly, typical politician speaking tactics, measured over opportunistic.
My goodness, only a little?I'm a little afraid he'll be demonized by the right
From what I've seen, Sanders tends to reiterate his position on whatever point is most relevant to the line of questioning. His consistency on his positions over time lends him a bit of an advantage there as there aren't many times he's contradicted himself, which is one less attack vector to explore. It also helps because a "gotcha" question is just going to lead him back into territory he's tread many times, the same way, over the course of his career. Generally he's not going to talk his way into an unfamiliar position - his principles kind of ground him. Either you like those or you don't, and if you don't then you attack on that basis, but it's tough to "trick" him.I watched two long form interviews with him yesterday. He will occasionally do tangents, but only relevant ones. He has command of facts and figures that have an impact. Overall, he does well in a situation where the interviewer is actually seeking real answers and to understand him. I don't know how he does when the interviewer is looking to play gotcha or manufacture dumb soundbites. I'd imagine less well, but that is probably true of everybody.
Okay, I hate you now. Sorry, GB.(I may have been the only person on the planet that liked both movies).
I haven’t seen 9 yet, but it’s my understanding that liking both movies guarantees that you are either a replicant or a Cylon. Sorry, man.I say this as a person who moderately likes Bernie and will happily vote for him in the general election:
The slapfighting on the internets between the rabidly pro-Bernie folks and the rabidly anti-Bernie folks reminds me of the idiots who worked themselves into a froth arguing over whether the 8th installment of Star Wars was better than the 9th installment of Star Wars (I may have been the only person on the planet that liked both movies).
IMPORTANT EDIT: I'm not saying either pro-Bernie or anti-Bernie folks are idiots. I guess I'm saying that people who argue on the internet about Star Wars are generally idiots, but I probably don't really mean that, either. It's just sounds fun to say.
hmmmm. You have to see the last one, man! I'm convinced you will be with me on this one. I think I like the 9th better than the 8th. But still liked the 8th well enough.I haven’t seen 9 yet, but it’s my understanding that liking both movies guarantees that you are either a replicant or a Cylon. Sorry, man.
I’m in love with Carrie Fisher, so probably, but there’s a very good chance I am either a replicant or Cylon. So that doesn’t help you.hmmmm. You have to see the last one, man! I'm convinced you will be with me on this one. I think I like the 9th better than the 8th. But still liked the 8th well enough.
Ben Mora kinda in the hot seat tonight. Tough day for Bernie’s regional field director, given the whole “anyone who does this is not part of our movement” thing.
https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1232123644765261825?s=21
Edit: there’s a daily beast article, but it appears to be behind a paywall.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/bernie-sanders-staffer-mocked-elizabeth-warrens-looks-pete-buttigiegs-sexuality-on-private-twitter-account
He was apparently fired within the hour."Amy Klobuchars face looks like that optical illusion where it's an old lady but also a young woman depending on how you look at it, but with her it's just two different old ladies"
That is horrible. I laughed.
Probably never should have been hired to begin with. Bernies camp hasn't been great at vetting. They need some Yang Gang in there.He was apparently fired within the hour.
So basically the opposite of what Trump would have done.He was apparently fired within the hour."Amy Klobuchars face looks like that optical illusion where it's an old lady but also a young woman depending on how you look at it, but with her it's just two different old ladies"
That is horrible. I laughed.
I actually recall The Mooch being fired for his name calling and unprofessionalism before he technically was supposed to start.So basically the opposite of what Trump would have done.
It wasn't because he had contacts with the NYTimes?I actually recall The Mooch being fired for his name calling and unprofessionalism before he technically was supposed to start.
That was then, today he would be promoted to head of the Joint Chiefs.I actually recall The Mooch being fired for his name calling and unprofessionalism before he technically was supposed to start.
Seduced by his own flair for turning a phrase. He had some descriptors he was just dying to use and it ended up killing his career. Some thoughts are best kept to oneself. A lesson I occasionally ignore.He was apparently fired within the hour.
I understand that the Mussolini thing is a myth. Not to take away from your point, hell I use the Mussolini saying myself for what it illustrates, factual basis be damned.Bernie may be a decent human being but Fidel Castro wasn’t one, and it’s depressing that older leftists of Bernie’s stripe never seem to get this. His explanation, “all I’m saying is that Fidel put in a high literacy campaign and that deserves praise” leaves a lot to be desired:
“All I’m saying is that Mussolini got the trains to run on time and that deserves praise.”
I've seen you praise Trump for stuff plenty of times.Bernie may be a decent human being but Fidel Castro wasn’t one, and it’s depressing that older leftists of Bernie’s stripe never seem to get this. His explanation, “all I’m saying is that Fidel put in a high literacy campaign and that deserves praise” leaves a lot to be desired:
“All I’m saying is that Mussolini got the trains to run on time and that deserves praise.”
How'd you feel about Obama saying nearly the exact same thing Tim? (ps. this was discussed extensively yesterday in one of the other innumerable Bernie/election threads)Bernie may be a decent human being but Fidel Castro wasn’t one, and it’s depressing that older leftists of Bernie’s stripe never seem to get this. His explanation, “all I’m saying is that Fidel put in a high literacy campaign and that deserves praise” leaves a lot to be desired:
“All I’m saying is that Mussolini got the trains to run on time and that deserves praise.”
Or so many of our leaders (from either party) praising Saudi Arabia over the years.I've seen you praise Trump for stuff plenty of times.
Fidel Castro was an evil man, a mass murderer, a criminal, a ruthless dictator. I don’t put Donald Trump in the same category.I've seen you praise Trump for stuff plenty of times.
I wasn’t aware of it. If he said it that deserves condemnation IMO.How'd you feel about Obama saying nearly the exact same thing Tim? (ps. this was discussed extensively yesterday in one of the other innumerable Bernie/election threads)
I’ve condemned this many times. It’s reprehensible. There is a difference (not a moral one): they praise the Saudis because it serves our self-interests to do so. But they know better. Bernie’s praise represents, IMO, an ideological blind spot in which all leftist leaders, no matter how corrupt they become, start out with good intentions.Or so many of our leaders (from either party) praising Saudi Arabia over the years.
So you think Bernie is going to slide down the dangerous slope to becoming Castro?I’ve condemned this many times. It’s reprehensible. There is a difference (not a moral one): they praise the Saudis because it serves our self-interests to do so. But they know better. Bernie’s praise represents, IMO, an ideological blind spot in which all leftist leaders, no matter how corrupt they become, start out with good intentions.
Can you provide some guidance so that I can determine if someone is bad enough so I'm not allowed to say anything positive about them? So far we haveFidel Castro was an evil man, a mass murderer, a criminal, a ruthless dictator. I don’t put Donald Trump in the same category.
How many of those things are Trump stopping himself or circumstances? In other words, if Trump had the opportunity to be a ruthless dictator, would he choose to be?Fidel Castro was an evil man, a mass murderer, a criminal, a ruthless dictator. I don’t put Donald Trump in the same category.
No.So you think Bernie is going to slide down the dangerous slope to becoming Castro?
I don’t think any of the people you mentioned should be singled out for praise.Can you provide some guidance so that I can determine if someone is bad enough so I'm not allowed to say anything positive about them? So far we have
Fidel Castro -- too bad to say anything nice about
Donald Trump -- bad, but still within the range where we're allowed to say nice stuff
Can you let me know which of these leaders currently in power fall into the "too bad to say anything positive about" category?
Kim Jung Un?
Duterte?
Putin?
Erdowan?
MSB from Saudi Arabia?
Dictator? Probably. Ruthless? Which means in Fidel terms, willing to murder, torture, imprison large numbers of innocent people in order to stay in power? I have no idea but I won’t condemn somebody for this unless they actually do it.How many of those things are Trump stopping himself or circumstances? In other words, if Trump had the opportunity to be a ruthless dictator, would he choose to be?