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Bernie Sanders HQ! *A decent human being. (3 Viewers)

It doesn’t matter who wins the democratic nomination, but Bernie Sanders?

Are there a bunch of people who actually believe he’d make a good POTUS? Have we fallen that far as a nation? Unbelievable.
Yes and better than out current POTUS.

We fell as a nation the moment Trump won the GOP primary.

 
I relate to those feelings. Four years ago I was massively anti-Trump, and only slightly less anti-Sanders.

Then something weird happened: I started to really examine the problems that Sanders is talking about in an evidence-based way. And I came to the conclusion that I wasn't being very logical. So I watched some longer form interviews with him and really listened to what he had to say (and what he didn't). And now I would call myself a moderately energized supporter.
This is a good point. I voted for him in the 2016 primary so I've been on board for a while but coming to message boards like this and seeing people act like he's completely insane or something is kind of baffling to me.

Maybe you don't agree with his policies, but they are pretty clear: It's time to help the middle and lower classes instead of the top 1%.

That message should and has hit home with a lot of people. And that's of course because it's entirely true. The current system is rigged against us normal folk.

 
Totally different, this was talking about Raul, not Fidel.
And we're not supporting Obama for the candidacy in 2020 anyway. Politics often relies so very much on optics.

The best way to answer is by rallying around Sanders' platform while conceding it's not the best look (which I know you've done). His policy truly is something to believe in.

 
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Well, technically I'm still on Team Warren for about another week or two until she drops out.  But after that I'm all in on Bernie.
We can be on multiple teams at once imo. I get heat for it, but I support Pete Buttigieg and Amy Klobuchar almost as much as I do Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.

 
I say this as a person who moderately likes Bernie and will happily vote for him in the general election:

The slapfighting on the internets between the rabidly pro-Bernie folks and the rabidly anti-Bernie folks reminds me of the idiots who worked themselves into a froth arguing over whether the 8th installment of Star Wars was better than the 9th installment of Star Wars (I may have been the only person on the planet that liked both movies). 

IMPORTANT EDIT:  I'm not saying either pro-Bernie or anti-Bernie folks are idiots.  I guess I'm saying that people who argue on the internet about Star Wars are generally idiots, but I probably don't really mean that, either.  It's just sounds fun to say. 

 
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I say this as a person who moderately likes Bernie and will happily vote for him in the general election:

The slapfighting on the internets between the rabidly pro-Bernie folks and the rabidly anti-Bernie folks reminds me of the idiots who worked themselves into a froth arguing over whether the 8th installment of Star Wars was better than the 9th installment of Star Wars (I may have been the only person on the planet that liked both movies). 
Obviously 9th and you're an idiot like the anti-Bernie people if you say otherwise!

ETA:  this is a joke btw   :noban:

 
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I say this as a person who moderately likes Bernie and will happily vote for him in the general election:

The slapfighting on the internets between the rabidly pro-Bernie folks and the rabidly anti-Bernie folks reminds me of the idiots who worked themselves into a froth arguing over whether the 8th installment of Star Wars was better than the 9th installment of Star Wars (I may have been the only person on the planet that liked both movies). 

IMPORTANT EDIT:  I'm not saying either pro-Bernie or anti-Bernie folks are idiots.  I guess I'm saying that people who argue on the internet about Star Wars are generally idiots, but I probably don't really mean that, either.  It's just sounds fun to say. 
Yeah, you're probably right -- I'm just still riled up from an unexpectedly good Nevada result. I'll probably slink back into the shadows in another day or two.

 
Yeah, you're probably right -- I'm just still riled up from an unexpectedly good Nevada result. I'll probably slink back into the shadows in another day or two.
The more time that goes on, the more fired up I am about getting on the Bernie train.  I like his ideas.  I like him.  He's a good guy.  I'm a little afraid he'll be demonized by the right, but EVERYONE coming out from the Dem side is flawed (as a candidate) in some way.  I don't think Bernie is any more flawed (as a candidate) than the others. 

And I've been saying this for a year now:  Bernie will appeal to the same rust belt working class white voters that Trump stole from Obama (and before that, Clinton).  At heart, I think Bernie comes across as the populist that Trump pretends to be. 

And I HATE that when I see anti-Bernie stuff on my facebook feed from my "liberal" friends, I feel compelled to correct or argue, Bernie-bro style.  I'm trying to be respectful.  For example, I haven't called Bloomberg trash once in my responses.  Even though he's . . . well, trash (I say this as someone who would vote for Bloomberg over Trump). 

 
It's kind of funny to see people squirm on the topic.

They know they've been told Bernie is super-extreme and out of his mind, but they have a tougher time when it gets down to actual specifics.

I mean Trump said he'd build a wall and Mexico would pay for it.

But Bernie's the crazy one with all of his impossible proposals!
Is it comforting that his proposals aren’t as crazy as Trump’s? Keeping in mind that we now have a space force?

 
Maybe others can help me figure out what vetting Bernie hasn't gone through yet that would significantly change anyone's view of him.  The guy went H2H against Hillary in a closer than expected primary.  When it comes to digging up dirt and winning an election she can be pretty ruthless.  

 
Maybe others can help me figure out what vetting Bernie hasn't gone through yet that would significantly change anyone's view of him.  The guy went H2H against Hillary in a closer than expected primary.  When it comes to digging up dirt and winning an election she can be pretty ruthless.  
There's stuff from his past that can be effectively spun negatively. Sanders's struggles in early adulthood, his personal financial situation now, statements (out of context or otherwise) in support of socialist ideas/policies over the course of his career, being a career politician. I don't think HRC really hit him as hard on that stuff as they could have. The RNC will make the most they can out of those things. Unlike HRC however there hasn't been 25 years of unrelenting hate directed Sanders's way by the RNC, so there's less resistance/bad will to him baked in to the electorate.

I think Sanders will  bear up if subjected to that scrutiny. He's cagey, he's tough, and he doesn't back down. A rhetoric battle between him and Trump will be fascinating to witness. Neither he or Trump are conventional in terms of the way they conduct themselves on the podium, either solo or in a debate setting. Both do the angry old guy schtick pretty well. I think a differentiating factor is that Sanders seems less prone to rambling than Trump. I think Sanders has an advantage there, if Trump leaves an opening, Bernie will land a counter. HRC would sometimes leave that kind of stuff on the table, or respond too slowly, typical politician speaking tactics, measured over opportunistic. 

 
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There's stuff from his past that can be effectively spun negatively. Sanders's struggles in early adulthood, his personal financial situation now, statements (out of context or otherwise) in support of socialist ideas/policies over the course of his career, being a career politician. I don't think HRC really hit him as hard on that stuff as they could have. The RNC will make the most they can out of those things. Unlike HRC however there hasn't been 25 years of unrelenting hate directed Sanders's way by the RNC, so there's less resistance/bad will to him baked in to the electorate.

I think Sanders will  bear up if subjected to that scrutiny. He's cagey, he's tough, and he doesn't back down. A rhetoric battle between him and Trump will be fascinating to witness. Neither he or Trump are conventional in terms of the way they conduct themselves on the podium, either solo or in a debate setting. Both do the angry old guy schtick pretty well. I think a differentiating factor is that Sanders seems less prone to rambling than Trump. I think Sanders has an advantage there, if Trump leaves an opening, Bernie will land a counter. HRC would sometimes leave that kind of stuff on the table, or respond too slowly, typical politician speaking tactics, measured over opportunistic. 
I watched two long form interviews with him yesterday. He will occasionally do tangents, but only relevant ones. He has command of facts and figures that have an impact. Overall, he does well in a situation where the interviewer is actually seeking real answers and to understand him. I don't know how he does when the interviewer is looking to play gotcha or manufacture dumb soundbites. I'd imagine less well, but that is probably true of everybody.

 
I watched two long form interviews with him yesterday. He will occasionally do tangents, but only relevant ones. He has command of facts and figures that have an impact. Overall, he does well in a situation where the interviewer is actually seeking real answers and to understand him. I don't know how he does when the interviewer is looking to play gotcha or manufacture dumb soundbites. I'd imagine less well, but that is probably true of everybody.
From what I've seen, Sanders tends to reiterate his position on whatever point is most relevant to the line of questioning. His consistency on his positions over time lends him a bit of an advantage there as there aren't many times he's contradicted himself, which is one less attack vector to explore. It also helps because a "gotcha" question is just going to lead him back into territory he's tread many times, the same way, over the course of his career. Generally he's not going to talk his way into an unfamiliar position - his principles kind of ground him. Either you like those or you don't, and if you don't then you attack on that basis, but it's tough to "trick" him. 

 
I say this as a person who moderately likes Bernie and will happily vote for him in the general election:

The slapfighting on the internets between the rabidly pro-Bernie folks and the rabidly anti-Bernie folks reminds me of the idiots who worked themselves into a froth arguing over whether the 8th installment of Star Wars was better than the 9th installment of Star Wars (I may have been the only person on the planet that liked both movies). 

IMPORTANT EDIT:  I'm not saying either pro-Bernie or anti-Bernie folks are idiots.  I guess I'm saying that people who argue on the internet about Star Wars are generally idiots, but I probably don't really mean that, either.  It's just sounds fun to say. 
I haven’t seen 9 yet, but it’s my understanding that liking both movies guarantees that you are either a replicant or a Cylon.  Sorry, man. 

 
I haven’t seen 9 yet, but it’s my understanding that liking both movies guarantees that you are either a replicant or a Cylon.  Sorry, man. 
hmmmm.  You have to see the last one, man!  I'm convinced you will be with me on this one.  I think I like the 9th better than the 8th.  But still liked the 8th well enough. 

 
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Ben Mora kinda in the hot seat tonight. Tough day for Bernie’s regional field director, given the whole “anyone who does this is not part of our movement” thing. 
 

https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1232123644765261825?s=21

Edit: there’s a daily beast article, but it appears to be behind a paywall. 
https://www.thedailybeast.com/bernie-sanders-staffer-mocked-elizabeth-warrens-looks-pete-buttigiegs-sexuality-on-private-twitter-account


"Amy Klobuchars face looks like that optical illusion where it's an old lady but also a young woman depending on how you look at it, but with her it's just two different old ladies"

That is horrible. I laughed.

 
Bernie may be a decent human being but Fidel Castro wasn’t one, and it’s depressing that older leftists of Bernie’s stripe never seem to get this. His explanation, “all I’m saying is that Fidel put in a high literacy campaign and that deserves praise” leaves a lot to be desired: 

“All I’m saying is that Mussolini got the trains to run on time and that deserves praise.” 

 
Bernie may be a decent human being but Fidel Castro wasn’t one, and it’s depressing that older leftists of Bernie’s stripe never seem to get this. His explanation, “all I’m saying is that Fidel put in a high literacy campaign and that deserves praise” leaves a lot to be desired: 

“All I’m saying is that Mussolini got the trains to run on time and that deserves praise.” 
I understand that the Mussolini thing is a myth.  Not to take away from your point, hell I use the Mussolini saying myself for what it illustrates, factual basis be damned.

 
Bernie may be a decent human being but Fidel Castro wasn’t one, and it’s depressing that older leftists of Bernie’s stripe never seem to get this. His explanation, “all I’m saying is that Fidel put in a high literacy campaign and that deserves praise” leaves a lot to be desired: 

“All I’m saying is that Mussolini got the trains to run on time and that deserves praise.” 
I've seen you praise Trump for stuff plenty of times.

 
Bernie may be a decent human being but Fidel Castro wasn’t one, and it’s depressing that older leftists of Bernie’s stripe never seem to get this. His explanation, “all I’m saying is that Fidel put in a high literacy campaign and that deserves praise” leaves a lot to be desired: 

“All I’m saying is that Mussolini got the trains to run on time and that deserves praise.” 
How'd you feel about Obama saying nearly the exact same thing Tim? (ps. this was discussed extensively yesterday in one of the other innumerable Bernie/election threads)

 
Or so many of our leaders (from either party) praising Saudi Arabia over the years.
I’ve condemned this many times. It’s reprehensible. There is a difference (not a moral one): they praise the Saudis because it serves our self-interests to do so. But they know better.  Bernie’s praise represents, IMO, an ideological blind spot in which all leftist leaders, no matter how corrupt they become, start out with good intentions. 

 
I’ve condemned this many times. It’s reprehensible. There is a difference (not a moral one): they praise the Saudis because it serves our self-interests to do so. But they know better.  Bernie’s praise represents, IMO, an ideological blind spot in which all leftist leaders, no matter how corrupt they become, start out with good intentions. 
So you think Bernie is going to slide down the dangerous slope to becoming Castro?

 
Fidel Castro was an evil man, a mass murderer, a criminal, a ruthless dictator. I don’t put Donald Trump in the same category. 
Can you provide some guidance so that I can determine if someone is bad enough so I'm not allowed to say anything positive about them?  So far we have 

Fidel Castro -- too bad to say anything nice about

Donald Trump -- bad, but still within the range where we're allowed to say nice stuff

Can you let me know which of these leaders currently in power fall into the "too bad to say anything positive about" category?

Kim Jung Un?  

Duterte?

Putin?

Erdowan?

MSB from Saudi Arabia?

 
Fidel Castro was an evil man, a mass murderer, a criminal, a ruthless dictator. I don’t put Donald Trump in the same category. 
How many of those things are Trump stopping himself or circumstances? In other words, if Trump had the opportunity to be a ruthless dictator, would he choose to be?

 
Can you provide some guidance so that I can determine if someone is bad enough so I'm not allowed to say anything positive about them?  So far we have 

Fidel Castro -- too bad to say anything nice about

Donald Trump -- bad, but still within the range where we're allowed to say nice stuff

Can you let me know which of these leaders currently in power fall into the "too bad to say anything positive about" category?

Kim Jung Un?  

Duterte?

Putin?

Erdowan?

MSB from Saudi Arabia?
I don’t think any of the people you mentioned should be singled out for praise.

 
How many of those things are Trump stopping himself or circumstances? In other words, if Trump had the opportunity to be a ruthless dictator, would he choose to be?
Dictator? Probably. Ruthless? Which means in Fidel terms, willing to murder, torture, imprison large numbers of innocent people in order to stay in power? I have no idea but I won’t condemn somebody for this unless they actually do it. 

 

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