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Bernie Sanders HQ! *A decent human being. (1 Viewer)

Kind of surprised to see this thread drop to the 2nd page.

Big day for Bernie tomorrow.  I expect a big turnout for his NY rally and Endorsement from AOC.

It now, also includes special guest and also endorsing Bernie - Michael Moore.

I am a little surprised the Progressive wing is placing bets now - obviously there must be some underlying resentment towards Warren - but I don't know what that is all about.

 
Kind of surprised to see this thread drop to the 2nd page.

Big day for Bernie tomorrow.  I expect a big turnout for his NY rally and Endorsement from AOC.

It now, also includes special guest and also endorsing Bernie - Michael Moore.

I am a little surprised the Progressive wing is placing bets now - obviously there must be some underlying resentment towards Warren - but I don't know what that is all about.
IMO Bernie called in a few favors to try to get things going the right direction, poll-wise. Ilhan and AOC have both always been very complimentary of Bernie and credit him for inspiring them to run for Congress.

 
It's not really following you around. When you post as much as you do, you're in just about every thread regularly.

Also, if you don't like being pointed out for your hypocrisy, may I suggest a very simple solution? Don't be a hypocrite. Or if you choose to continue to be, at least stop whining about it.
We need a stat that shows the % of your posts being replies to other posters.  There’s no doubt that RW, kd, Noonan, squis and sho reply way more often to other certain posters than they do everyone else.  It’s not really debatable.  It’s like watching kids argue.

 
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Norman Paperman said:
Kind of surprised to see this thread drop to the 2nd page.

Big day for Bernie tomorrow.  I expect a big turnout for his NY rally and Endorsement from AOC.

It now, also includes special guest and also endorsing Bernie - Michael Moore.

I am a little surprised the Progressive wing is placing bets now - obviously there must be some underlying resentment towards Warren - but I don't know what that is all about.
I think it will help Warren get Biden voters after the inevitable Biden collapse.

 
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Right, the article said that but I didn't... I don't care when they got the money.  Warren got a lot of hers from her Senate run that was rolled over
Click the 1.2 million figure and follow where it takes you.  It doesnt back up tue 1.2 million claim from execs.  Thats just background of all donors.  So a nurse donating is included in that.

 
Click the 1.2 million figure and follow where it takes you.  It doesnt back up tue 1.2 million claim from execs.  Thats just background of all donors.  So a nurse donating is included in that.
That's a fair point.  Still, he seems a bit too cozy with big money for my liking.  He's definitely smart AF and has a bright future though. 

 
KiddLattimer said:
$1.26 Mil according to the article
From the article:

"The donors identified by Sludge gave a total of close to $97,000 to the Buttigieg campaign in the third quarter of 2019."

So, out of $19.1M raised in the 3rd quarter - your beef is with the $0.1M?

Seems a bit disingenuous.  If you don't like him - thats fine.  No need to start manufacturing reasons not to like him though.  Pete is definitely more centrist/moderate than Bernie or Warren.  But, his is eons more mature than Trump.

 
From the article:

"The donors identified by Sludge gave a total of close to $97,000 to the Buttigieg campaign in the third quarter of 2019."

So, out of $19.1M raised in the 3rd quarter - your beef is with the $0.1M?

Seems a bit disingenuous.  If you don't like him - thats fine.  No need to start manufacturing reasons not to like him though.  Pete is definitely more centrist/moderate than Bernie or Warren.  But, his is eons more mature than Trump.
I actually like Pete on some level... smart guy, seems like he has decent ideas and it's good to see a fresh face with a bright future.

My "beef" with Pete is that he's too cozy with big money for my taste.  How exactly is that disingenuous? He leads all democrats in billionaire donors and he receives any money from healthcare execs. $100k isn't massive in the grand scheme of a campaign but it's also not chump change from people who have a lot to lose should a lefty get in to office. 

Also - Yes, I know Trump is bad, we don't need to point that out every time someone says they don't like something about your candidate. If we're talking about any democrat candidate we all have the same opinion.

 
sho nuff said:
Because I listen to Pete say similar things and not be almost 80 and not push some of the progressive ideas that are more socialist and a bit out there?
Bernie has an objectively better chance than Pete right now. It's already down to 3. Pete and Kamala are just there right now to take up space and divide votes.

 
Bernie has an objectively better chance than Pete right now. It's already down to 3. Pete and Kamala are just there right now to take up space and divide votes.
Objectively?  Really?

Bernie has no chance of getting the nomination right now. He has too many negatives going against him, not the least of which are he will be 79 on election day, he is coming off a heart attack, he does not have broad support in any state, and would need to be over 50% of the delegates on the first convention vote - because the Dem Super Delegates come into play on the 2nd vote, and Bernie chooses not to play nice with the Dem establishment.

You might also think Pete has no chance of getting the nomination - but that just puts them on level footing.

 
Monmouth: Within margin of error of 1st

Quinnipiac: 52% of voters under 35 (next closest - Warren 17%)
These polls are somewhat offensive.  Why do they only rate the white voters for college degrees?  They think nobody else has a degree? Having a mother who is a minority and graduated from college at the age of 42 if they are going to poll about who went to college they need to be more inclusive.

 
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These poll are somewhat offensive.  Why do they only rate the white voters for college degrees?  They think nobody else has a degree? Having a mother who is a minority and graduated from college at the age of 42 if they are going to poll about who wen to college they need to be more inclusive.
Is it whites with college degree or is it just the headers are weird? 

 
Beautiful. As all other candidates MSM have tried to prop up fall over themselves one after the next like Dominoes, remember the wise words of Macho Man Randy Savage: The cream will rise to the top.

 
These polls are somewhat offensive.  Why do they only rate the white voters for college degrees?  They think nobody else has a degree? Having a mother who is a minority and graduated from college at the age of 42 if they are going to poll about who went to college they need to be more inclusive.
The purpose is probably to influence the white vote by showing educated whites vote for Biden.  Minority probably support Biden by similar percentage regardless of education so it is uninteresting.  Worst case would be minority breakout may show that the more educated are less likely to vote for Biden and they don't want to show that.  

 
The reason black votes are not cut by education is almost certainly because of sample size issues.At only about 12% of the population, further sub-dividing responses would probably not be accurately projectible. 

The good news for Sanders supporters is that seems to have moved solidly into 2nd place. Out of seven polls in December, he's in second in six.
It probably won't be obvious in debate positioning - if there is a debate. Since there are seven candidates, Biden would have sole possession of the center podium, so he's be surrounded by Warren and Sanders as he has been

 
These polls are somewhat offensive.  Why do they only rate the white voters for college degrees?  They think nobody else has a degree? Having a mother who is a minority and graduated from college at the age of 42 if they are going to poll about who went to college they need to be more inclusive.
Educational attainment is a significant predictor of candidate choice for white voters only. It's not a very good explanatory variable for minority folks, so some pollsters don't bother asking them. 

 
Sanders campaign raises $34.5 million in fourth quarter of 2019

Bernie has always been my preferred candidate, but I thought he might not be able to rise above all of the other candidates who have largely copied a lot of his rhetoric. I'm beginning to think he really does have a shot again.
He does. He is quickly becoming Biden’s main opponent. And there is some very interesting info in the polls- Bernie is the second choice of all the other candidates- including Biden voters! 

Unlike you I don’t want Bernie. But people better wake up that he is absolutely in the running here. The title of this thread should be changed to reflect that. 

 
My sense of Democratic politics is telling me that if Bernie condemns this attack on Iran and Biden does not, it could put Bernie over the top in this race, ala McGovern in 1972. Hope I’m wrong though. 

 
He is seeking to run for President. That is about as stressful a job as there is in the entire world. Trump was 70 when he started his presidency, the oldest of any US President. Bernie would be 79 if he were to be elected. IMO he has no chance. Nor should he.
My stance is unchanged. If the Democrats give Bernie their nomination, IMO Trump will crush him. And I say that as no fan of Trump.

Age and health will be an issue. More importantly, the Republicans will hammer him over economy and taxes. There is simply no way to fund his policies without a drastic increase in taxes, including on the middle class.

 
Age and health will be an issue. More importantly, the Republicans will hammer him over economy and taxes. There is simply no way to fund his policies without a drastic increase in taxes, including on the middle class.
Are people disputing this? I think the large majority of people understand how that part of it works.

 
My stance is unchanged. If the Democrats give Bernie their nomination, IMO Trump will crush him. And I say that as no fan of Trump.

Age and health will be an issue. More importantly, the Republicans will hammer him over economy and taxes. There is simply no way to fund his policies without a drastic increase in taxes, including on the middle class.
According to his plan the increase in middle class taxes would be less than they currently pay to the health insurance companies, I think that's a trade off that most people would find reasonable. 

I'm sure there would be sound bites of him saying "your taxes will go up" without leaving the rest of the quote in but they'll do that to any nominee

 
According to his plan the increase in middle class taxes would be less than they currently pay to the health insurance companies, I think that's a trade off that most people would find reasonable. 

I'm sure there would be sound bites of him saying "your taxes will go up" without leaving the rest of the quote in but they'll do that to any nominee
they would if you can sell it. i doubt you can.

 
timschochet said:
they would if you can sell it. i doubt you can.
I’m not sure anybody really knows what will happen.  Some people think there’s no chance Warren or Bernie can win but there were plenty of people who thought Trump would never win.  I think it’s extremely hard to predict how Independents and typical non-voters will break and also how well the sides will be motivated to get out and vote.  Maybe Bernie is the nominee and that encourages enough young people to vote and he doesnt turn off too many Trump voters.  I think people are doing their best to guess but it’s still that, a guess. 

 
ShamrockPride said:
Are people disputing this? I think the large majority of people understand how that part of it works.
And I think when it comes to an election, not enough people will vote non-trivial taxes upon themselves for him to win the Presidential election.

KiddLattimer said:
According to his plan the increase in middle class taxes would be less than they currently pay to the health insurance companies, I think that's a trade off that most people would find reasonable. 
There is some discussion of his plan to pay for healthcare on page 399 of this thread. Here is one of my posts that shows that his plan to pay for M4A covers only half the cost. It shows households paying only an additional 4% in individual/household income tax, which is certainly less than their average premiums today. But his plan does not show where the other half of the money comes from.

His own plan says the 4% tax would generate $3.5T over 10 years. But he needs another 16.2T. To cover that with additional income tax implies increasing that individual/household income tax to ~18.5%, not 4%. Does that sound like something that will win a popular vote? I don't think so. How many healthy individuals/households do you know who would be willing to pay an extra 18.5% in income tax to primarily benefit others who are sicker? I don't know any.

But maybe he would do it another way. Maybe instead of a 7.5% additional income tax paid by employers, which he says would generate $3.9T over 10 years, he would impose a 30% additional income tax on employers. Except he can't feasibly do that because it would crush the economy and unemployment.

And that doesn't begin to address other ripple effects (e.g., unemployment for people working in the private healthcare industry, the fact that the stocks of these companies are a non-trivial component of the stock market, etc.).

That also doesn't begin to address how to pay for Sanders' other policies, like elimination of all student debt and free college education for all. IMO his overall platform is far too radical in terms of the effects it would have on our taxes, economy, and unemployment.

Bottom line, IMO there is no way to pay for his policies that will survive a popular vote.

 

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