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Bernie Sanders HQ! *A decent human being. (8 Viewers)

SaintsInDome2006 said:
AcerFC said:
...

Does he have any shot at winning

** I dont plan on reading the 7 pages here to find out
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I will take a shot at this. Yes, he has a shot. He needs to 1. get 30%+ in IA, 2. get 40%+ in NH, 3. keep raising money like a demon (he came out the gates very well but I have no idea what the latest is), 4. take the momentum and somehow flip SC and NV (where he actually could get some serious union help). Apparently even the DNC is against him.
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Of course the DNC is against him. He's an actual liberal and would be a tough person to work for. They want the status quo. They like things just as they are.

 
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This story is so bizarre - NPR's Diane Rehm apparently picked up some false post off the internet and introduced it in an interview with Sanders, basically stating to his face that he was secretly an Israeli citizen:

Did NPR host Diane Rehm just accuse Bernie Sanders of dual citizenship with Israel?...

On a Wednesday morning broadcast, longtime NPR host Diane Rehm interviewed presidential candidate and Senator Bernie Sanders (D-VT), and asked the Jewish self-described socialist some strange questions when it came to his connection with Israel.

Here’s the relevant exchange, which begins at about the 24-minute mark if you want to listen for yourself:

Diane Rehm: Senator, you have dual citizenship with Israel.

Bernie Sanders: Well, no I do not have dual citizenship with Israel. I'm an American. I don't know where that question came from. I am an American citizen, and I have visited Israel on a couple of occasions. No, I'm an American citizen, period.

Rehm: I understand from a list we have gotten that you were on that list.

Sanders: No.

Rehm: Forgive me if that is—

Sanders: That's some of the nonsense that goes on in the internet. But that is absolutely not true.

Rehm: Interesting. Are there members of Congress who do have dual citizenship or is that part of the fable?

Sanders: I honestly don't know but I have read that on the internet. You know, my dad came to this country from Poland at the age of 17 without a nickel in his pocket. He loved this country. I am, you know, I got offended a little bit by that comment, and I know it's been on the internet. I am obviously an American citizen and I do not have any dual citizenship.
Click to expand...
I'll seek comment from Diane Rehm on why she, or whoever prepared the interview, thought Sanders has Israeli citizenship. The question itself suggests that Rehm may have been trying to imply some type of dual loyalty on Sanders’s part.

A cursory search on Google of “Bernie Sanders Israeli citizenship” shows that his name comes up in the comments section of the “We are all Vittorio Arrigoni” Facebook page. Arrigoni was an Italian pro-Palestinian activist who was kidnapped and murdered by non-Hamas Islamists in Gaza in April 2011. In the comments section of the Facebook page, on May 2 a user posted a list of senators and representatives who “have both Israel and U.S. citizenships.” Sanders is on the list. No source is given because the list is a total fabrication, not to mention created by an anti-Semite and anti-Zionist, which is given away by the fact that it says “Jewish Lobby”, “#israelwarcrime”, “AIPAC: Buying Congress one seat at a time”, “Rothschild”, and features an American flag with a Star of David replacing the 50 stars.

... If this is in fact the “list” that Rehm was referring to, it’s a remarkable feat of shoddy and lazy journalism.

While this is not a repeat of that time veteran White House correspondent Helen Thomas went on an anti-Semitic, anti-Israel diatribe, one wonders why in the world one of America’s most successful radio journalists baselessly asked (or accused, depending on your view) a senator and presidential candidate why he has Israeli citizenship.

...

Abe Foxman sent the following statement:

“Diane Rehm’s questions were inappropriate, insensitive questioning without any minimal journalistic checking of claims. Such a statement is not only factually incorrect, but has no place in such an interview.

“It is deeply troubling to think that a well-respected media outlet like NPR would apparently rely on unsubstantiated information from the Internet in its preparation for a guest.

“Ms. Rehm’s description and follow-up question about whether other Senators have dual citizenship with Israel play into classic anti-Semitic charges of dual loyalty. Such charges have been leveled for centuries and have been a catalyst for scapegoating and vilifying Jews.

“Senator Sanders deserves a public apology, as do NPR listeners.”
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http://www.jewishjournal.com/mostthingsconsidered/item/did_npr_host_diane_rehm_just_accuse_bernie_sanders_of_being_an_israeli_citi

 
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The only American politician I know of who may have dual citizenship with Israel is Rahm Emmanuel. IIRC, he served in the IDF.

 
timschochet said:
The only American politician I know of who may have dual citizenship with Israel is Rahm Emmanuel. IIRC, he served in the IDF.
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Well apparently there's an internet rumor out there that a hundred Congressmen (or something like that) are secretly Israeli... and that fakery made its way to NPR.

 
I would vote for Bernie.

I will not vote for anyone named Clinton or Bush,and from what's remaining,Bernie is the most real.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
This story is so bizarre - NPR's Diane Rehm apparently picked up some false post off the internet and introduced it in an interview with Sanders, basically stating to his face that he was secretly an Israeli citizen:

Did NPR host Diane Rehm just accuse Bernie Sanders of dual citizenship with Israel?

...

On a Wednesday morning broadcast, longtime NPR host Diane Rehm interviewed presidential candidate and Senator Bernie Sanders (D-VT), and asked the Jewish self-described socialist some strange questions when it came to his connection with Israel.

Here’s the relevant exchange, which begins at about the 24-minute mark if you want to listen for yourself:

Diane Rehm: Senator, you have dual citizenship with Israel.

Bernie Sanders: Well, no I do not have dual citizenship with Israel. I'm an American. I don't know where that question came from. I am an American citizen, and I have visited Israel on a couple of occasions. No, I'm an American citizen, period.

Rehm: I understand from a list we have gotten that you were on that list.

Sanders: No.

Rehm: Forgive me if that is—

Sanders: That's some of the nonsense that goes on in the internet. But that is absolutely not true.

Rehm: Interesting. Are there members of Congress who do have dual citizenship or is that part of the fable?

Sanders: I honestly don't know but I have read that on the internet. You know, my dad came to this country from Poland at the age of 17 without a nickel in his pocket. He loved this country. I am, you know, I got offended a little bit by that comment, and I know it's been on the internet. I am obviously an American citizen and I do not have any dual citizenship.
Click to expand...
I'll seek comment from Diane Rehm on why she, or whoever prepared the interview, thought Sanders has Israeli citizenship. The question itself suggests that Rehm may have been trying to imply some type of dual loyalty on Sanders’s part.A cursory search on Google of “Bernie Sanders Israeli citizenship” shows that his name comes up in the comments section of the “We are all Vittorio Arrigoni” Facebook page. Arrigoni was an Italian pro-Palestinian activist who was kidnapped and murdered by non-Hamas Islamists in Gaza in April 2011. In the comments section of the Facebook page, on May 2 a user posted a list of senators and representatives who “have both Israel and U.S. citizenships.” Sanders is on the list. No source is given because the list is a total fabrication, not to mention created by an anti-Semite and anti-Zionist, which is given away by the fact that it says “Jewish Lobby”, “#israelwarcrime”, “AIPAC: Buying Congress one seat at a time”, “Rothschild”, and features an American flag with a Star of David replacing the 50 stars.

... If this is in fact the “list” that Rehm was referring to, it’s a remarkable feat of shoddy and lazy journalism.

While this is not a repeat of that time veteran White House correspondent Helen Thomas

Click to expand...
Deplorable...I'm not holding my breath that anybody will be held accountable....

 
FlapJacks said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
This story is so bizarre - NPR's Diane Rehm apparently picked up some false post off the internet and introduced it in an interview with Sanders, basically stating to his face that he was secretly an Israeli citizen:

Did NPR host Diane Rehm just accuse Bernie Sanders of dual citizenship with Israel?

...

On a Wednesday morning broadcast, longtime NPR host Diane Rehm interviewed presidential candidate and Senator Bernie Sanders (D-VT), and asked the Jewish self-described socialist some strange questions when it came to his connection with Israel.

Here’s the relevant exchange, which begins at about the 24-minute mark if you want to listen for yourself:

Diane Rehm: Senator, you have dual citizenship with Israel.

Bernie Sanders: Well, no I do not have dual citizenship with Israel. I'm an American. I don't know where that question came from. I am an American citizen, and I have visited Israel on a couple of occasions. No, I'm an American citizen, period.

Rehm: I understand from a list we have gotten that you were on that list.

Sanders: No.

Rehm: Forgive me if that is—

Sanders: That's some of the nonsense that goes on in the internet. But that is absolutely not true.

Rehm: Interesting. Are there members of Congress who do have dual citizenship or is that part of the fable?

Sanders: I honestly don't know but I have read that on the internet. You know, my dad came to this country from Poland at the age of 17 without a nickel in his pocket. He loved this country. I am, you know, I got offended a little bit by that comment, and I know it's been on the internet. I am obviously an American citizen and I do not have any dual citizenship.
Click to expand...
I'll seek comment from Diane Rehm on why she, or whoever prepared the interview, thought Sanders has Israeli citizenship. The question itself suggests that Rehm may have been trying to imply some type of dual loyalty on Sanders’s part.A cursory search on Google of “Bernie Sanders Israeli citizenship” shows that his name comes up in the comments section of the “We are all Vittorio Arrigoni” Facebook page. Arrigoni was an Italian pro-Palestinian activist who was kidnapped and murdered by non-Hamas Islamists in Gaza in April 2011. In the comments section of the Facebook page, on May 2 a user posted a list of senators and representatives who “have both Israel and U.S. citizenships.” Sanders is on the list. No source is given because the list is a total fabrication, not to mention created by an anti-Semite and anti-Zionist, which is given away by the fact that it says “Jewish Lobby”, “#israelwarcrime”, “AIPAC: Buying Congress one seat at a time”, “Rothschild”, and features an American flag with a Star of David replacing the 50 stars.

... If this is in fact the “list” that Rehm was referring to, it’s a remarkable feat of shoddy and lazy journalism.

While this is not a repeat of that time veteran White House correspondent Helen Thomas

Click to expand...
what does being held accountable mean to you?

 
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Fennis said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
timschochet said:
It means finding a way to trace this back to Hillary Clinton.
Click to expand...
And as for Ms. Rehm who basically just cast a conspiratorial antisemitic slur on the man seeking to be the first Jewish president of the US, on national radio?

- What of her?
Click to expand...
what was the anti-Semitic slur?
Click to expand...
Well let's see - I would say that accusations that JFK would be obeisant to the Pope back in 1960 were anti-Catholic slurs. And I'd say that Bernie Sanders' allegedly holding a dual citizenship implies that he would be obeisant to Israel, because you know... ["JEWISH"], not to mention the site where it was pulled from.

 
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Fennis said:
FlapJacks said:
This story is so bizarre - NPR's Diane Rehm apparently picked up some false post off the internet and introduced it in an interview with Sanders, basically stating to his face that he was secretly an Israeli citizen:

Did NPR host Diane Rehm just accuse Bernie Sanders of dual citizenship with Israel?

...

On a Wednesday morning broadcast, longtime NPR host Diane Rehm interviewed presidential candidate and Senator Bernie Sanders (D-VT), and asked the Jewish self-described socialist some strange questions when it came to his connection with Israel.

Heres the relevant exchange, which begins at about the 24-minute mark if you want to listen for yourself:

Diane Rehm: Senator, you have dual citizenship with Israel.Bernie Sanders: Well, no I do not have dual citizenship with Israel. I'm an American. I don't know where that question came from. I am an American citizen, and I have visited Israel on a couple of occasions. No, I'm an American citizen, period.Rehm: I understand from a list we have gotten that you were on that list.Sanders: No.Rehm: Forgive me if that isSanders: That's some of the nonsense that goes on in the internet. But that is absolutely not true.Rehm: Interesting. Are there members of Congress who do have dual citizenship or is that part of the fable?Sanders: I honestly don't know but I have read that on the internet. You know, my dad came to this country from Poland at the age of 17 without a nickel in his pocket. He loved this country. I am, you know, I got offended a little bit by that comment, and I know it's been on the internet. I am obviously an American citizen and I do not have any dual citizenship.
Click to expand...
I'll seek comment from Diane Rehm on why she, or whoever prepared the interview, thought Sanders has Israeli citizenship. The question itself suggests that Rehm may have been trying to imply some type of dual loyalty on Sanderss part.A cursory search on Google of Bernie Sanders Israeli citizenship shows that his name comes up in the comments section of the We are all Vittorio Arrigoni Facebook page. Arrigoni was an Italian pro-Palestinian activist who was kidnapped and murdered by non-Hamas Islamists in Gaza in April 2011. In the comments section of the Facebook page, on May 2 a user posted a list of senators and representatives who have both Israel and U.S. citizenships. Sanders is on the list. No source is given because the list is a total fabrication, not to mention created by an anti-Semite and anti-Zionist, which is given away by the fact that it says Jewish Lobby, #israelwarcrime, AIPAC: Buying Congress one seat at a time, Rothschild, and features an American flag with a Star of David replacing the 50 stars.

... If this is in fact the list that Rehm was referring to, its a remarkable feat of shoddy and lazy journalism.

While this is not a repeat of that time veteran White House correspondent Helen Thomas

Click to expand...
Somebody should be fired for failing to fact check and/or allowing this line of attack against a distinguished guestIf NPR doesn't take any responsibility for allowing a grossly inaccurate and unfair "insinuation" to be broadcast, then what does that say about their ethics and commitment to truth?

 
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I think you guys are barking up the wrong tree here. Diane Rehm is not some muckraking journalist trying to do a hit job on Sanders. And she's not some antisemitic conspiracy theorist. She made a mistake, she apologized. Not a huge deal.

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
I think you guys are barking up the wrong tree here. Diane Rehm is not some muckraking journalist trying to do a hit job on Sanders. And she's not some antisemitic conspiracy theorist. She made a mistake, she apologized. Not a huge deal.
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Really?

Q: Sen. Obama you're from Kenya.

A: No, I'm not, that's ridiculous.

Q: I understand from a memo we have gotten that you are.

A: Absurdly false.

Q: And aren't there other members of Congress who are secret muslims?
Click to expand...
Would that have been an exchange with consequences?

 
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fatguyinalittlecoat said:
I think you guys are barking up the wrong tree here. Diane Rehm is not some muckraking journalist trying to do a hit job on Sanders. And she's not some antisemitic conspiracy theorist. She made a mistake, she apologized. Not a huge deal.
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Exactly. She is not a journalist. She is like an annoying Oprah for the 70+ crowd. Can't stand her voice.

 
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None_More_Black said:
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
I think you guys are barking up the wrong tree here. Diane Rehm is not some muckraking journalist trying to do a hit job on Sanders. And she's not some antisemitic conspiracy theorist. She made a mistake, she apologized. Not a huge deal.
Click to expand...
Exactly. She is not a journalist. She is like an annoying Oprah for the 70+ crowd. Can't stand her voice.
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Yeah, I was shocked when I found out she wasn't 90 years old or something.
 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Fennis said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
timschochet said:
It means finding a way to trace this back to Hillary Clinton.
Click to expand...
And as for Ms. Rehm who basically just cast a conspiratorial antisemitic slur on the man seeking to be the first Jewish president of the US, on national radio?

- What of her?
Click to expand...
what was the anti-Semitic slur?
Click to expand...
Well let's see - I would say that accusations that JFK would be obeisant to the Pope back in 1960 were anti-Catholic slurs. And I'd say that Bernie Sanders' allegedly holding a dual citizenship implies that he would be obeisant to Israel, because you know... ["JEWISH"], not to mention the site where it was pulled from.
Click to expand...
A Jewish candidate running for president will need to answer that concern, just like a Catholic candidate had to answer that concern in the 60s.

JFK handled it without an issue and was elected president.

 
Fennis said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Fennis said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
timschochet said:
It means finding a way to trace this back to Hillary Clinton.
Click to expand...
And as for Ms. Rehm who basically just cast a conspiratorial antisemitic slur on the man seeking to be the first Jewish president of the US, on national radio?

- What of her?
Click to expand...
what was the anti-Semitic slur?
Click to expand...
Well let's see - I would say that accusations that JFK would be obeisant to the Pope back in 1960 were anti-Catholic slurs. And I'd say that Bernie Sanders' allegedly holding a dual citizenship implies that he would be obeisant to Israel, because you know... ["JEWISH"], not to mention the site where it was pulled from.
Click to expand...
A Jewish candidate running for president will need to answer that concern, just like a Catholic candidate had to answer that concern in the 60s.

JFK handled it without an issue and was elected president.
Click to expand...
That's a "concern"? You think a Catholic or Jewish president's allegiance to his country is legitimately a "concern"?

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Fennis said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Fennis said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
timschochet said:
It means finding a way to trace this back to Hillary Clinton.
Click to expand...
And as for Ms. Rehm who basically just cast a conspiratorial antisemitic slur on the man seeking to be the first Jewish president of the US, on national radio?

- What of her?
Click to expand...
what was the anti-Semitic slur?
Click to expand...
Well let's see - I would say that accusations that JFK would be obeisant to the Pope back in 1960 were anti-Catholic slurs. And I'd say that Bernie Sanders' allegedly holding a dual citizenship implies that he would be obeisant to Israel, because you know... ["JEWISH"], not to mention the site where it was pulled from.
Click to expand...
A Jewish candidate running for president will need to answer that concern, just like a Catholic candidate had to answer that concern in the 60s.

JFK handled it without an issue and was elected president.
Click to expand...
That's a "concern"? You think a Catholic or Jewish president's allegiance to his country is legitimately a "concern"?
Click to expand...
It was veiled bigotry then and it is now ...

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Fennis said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Fennis said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
timschochet said:
It means finding a way to trace this back to Hillary Clinton.
Click to expand...
And as for Ms. Rehm who basically just cast a conspiratorial antisemitic slur on the man seeking to be the first Jewish president of the US, on national radio?

- What of her?
Click to expand...
what was the anti-Semitic slur?
Click to expand...
Well let's see - I would say that accusations that JFK would be obeisant to the Pope back in 1960 were anti-Catholic slurs. And I'd say that Bernie Sanders' allegedly holding a dual citizenship implies that he would be obeisant to Israel, because you know... ["JEWISH"], not to mention the site where it was pulled from.
Click to expand...
A Jewish candidate running for president will need to answer that concern, just like a Catholic candidate had to answer that concern in the 60s.

JFK handled it without an issue and was elected president.
Click to expand...
That's a "concern"? You think a Catholic or Jewish president's allegiance to his country is legitimately a "concern"?
Click to expand...
Every president has to answer all kinds of concerns that aren't valid.

 
Fennis said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Fennis said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Fennis said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
timschochet said:
It means finding a way to trace this back to Hillary Clinton.
Click to expand...
And as for Ms. Rehm who basically just cast a conspiratorial antisemitic slur on the man seeking to be the first Jewish president of the US, on national radio?

- What of her?
Click to expand...
what was the anti-Semitic slur?
Click to expand...
Well let's see - I would say that accusations that JFK would be obeisant to the Pope back in 1960 were anti-Catholic slurs. And I'd say that Bernie Sanders' allegedly holding a dual citizenship implies that he would be obeisant to Israel, because you know... ["JEWISH"], not to mention the site where it was pulled from.
Click to expand...
A Jewish candidate running for president will need to answer that concern, just like a Catholic candidate had to answer that concern in the 60s.

JFK handled it without an issue and was elected president.
Click to expand...
That's a "concern"? You think a Catholic or Jewish president's allegiance to his country is legitimately a "concern"?
Click to expand...
Every president has to answer all kinds of concerns that aren't valid.
Click to expand...
Not from NPR reporters or other supposedly legitimate journalists. It wasn't even a question, it was a bigoted assertion taken right off some dark corner of the internet. - Maybe she's a moron I'll grant you that, either way she shouldn't be in the job she is.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Fennis said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Fennis said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Fennis said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
timschochet said:
It means finding a way to trace this back to Hillary Clinton.
Click to expand...
And as for Ms. Rehm who basically just cast a conspiratorial antisemitic slur on the man seeking to be the first Jewish president of the US, on national radio?

- What of her?
Click to expand...
what was the anti-Semitic slur?
Click to expand...
Well let's see - I would say that accusations that JFK would be obeisant to the Pope back in 1960 were anti-Catholic slurs. And I'd say that Bernie Sanders' allegedly holding a dual citizenship implies that he would be obeisant to Israel, because you know... ["JEWISH"], not to mention the site where it was pulled from.
Click to expand...
A Jewish candidate running for president will need to answer that concern, just like a Catholic candidate had to answer that concern in the 60s.

JFK handled it without an issue and was elected president.
Click to expand...
That's a "concern"? You think a Catholic or Jewish president's allegiance to his country is legitimately a "concern"?
Click to expand...
Every president has to answer all kinds of concerns that aren't valid.
Click to expand...
Not from NPR reporters or other supposedly legitimate journalists. It wasn't even a question, it was a bigoted assertion taken right off some dark corner of the internet. - Maybe she's a moron I'll grant you that, either way she shouldn't be in the job she is.
Click to expand...
She had misinformation and she promptly apologized. I don't expect any journalist not to make a mistake. She didn't make an anti-Semitic remark, she didn't accuse him of having allegiance to Israel. Maybe that's where she was going, who knows. I agree it was a stupid question.

 
Maybe I am wrong, especially coming off a black president and a woman is the current front runner, but I still don't think the country would elect a Jewish president.

 
Bernie Sanders Demands Hillary Clinton Take Trade Stance ‘Right Now’

Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont delivered a sharp critique of Hillary Rodham Clinton on Thursday for her reluctance to talk about issues as a presidential candidate and vowed that he is running against her to win.

Mr. Sanders, an independent who is seeking the Democratic nomination, said he is offended by Mrs. Clinton’s silence on trade and urged her to share her real views with voters.

“Trade policies have been disastrous,” Mr. Sanders said at a breakfast hosted by The Christian Science Monitor in Washington. “If she’s against this, we need her to speak out, right now.”

Mr. Sanders then listed a number of issues where he said Mrs. Clinton has failed to share her views, including climate change, the Keystone Pipeline and the renewal of the Patriot Act.

“What is the secretary’s point of view on that?” he asked of the act that he voted against.

Promising to run a campaign without personal attacks, Mr. Sanders questioned Mrs. Clinton on how she plans to address the influence of the “billionaire class” and said that her vote to authorize the 2003 Iraq War raised questions about her judgment.

“I’m not here to criticize a vote that she cast years ago,” Mr. Sanders said. “But what does that mean about your judgment assessing information?”

The comments from Mr. Sanders come as Mrs. Clinton is about to formally kick off her campaign with a rally in New York this weekend.

The senator acknowledged that he remains an underdog in the race but said that he is picking up momentum in terms of crowds and fund-raising. He estimated that he has received about 200,000 donations averaging about $40 each.

“This is not a protest campaign,” Mr. Sanders said when asked if he really believed he could beat Mrs. Clinton. “I am in this election to win.”
Click to expand...
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/06/11/bernie-sanders-demands-hillary-clinton-take-trade-stance-right-now/

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Bernie Sanders Demands Hillary Clinton Take Trade Stance ‘Right Now’Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont delivered a sharp critique of Hillary Rodham Clinton on Thursday for her reluctance to talk about issues as a presidential candidate and vowed that he is running against her to win.

Mr. Sanders, an independent who is seeking the Democratic nomination, said he is offended by Mrs. Clinton’s silence on trade and urged her to share her real views with voters.

“Trade policies have been disastrous,” Mr. Sanders said at a breakfast hosted by The Christian Science Monitor in Washington. “If she’s against this, we need her to speak out, right now.”

Mr. Sanders then listed a number of issues where he said Mrs. Clinton has failed to share her views, including climate change, the Keystone Pipeline and the renewal of the Patriot Act.

“What is the secretary’s point of view on that?” he asked of the act that he voted against.

Promising to run a campaign without personal attacks, Mr. Sanders questioned Mrs. Clinton on how she plans to address the influence of the “billionaire class” and said that her vote to authorize the 2003 Iraq War raised questions about her judgment.

“I’m not here to criticize a vote that she cast years ago,” Mr. Sanders said. “But what does that mean about your judgment assessing information?”

The comments from Mr. Sanders come as Mrs. Clinton is about to formally kick off her campaign with a rally in New York this weekend.

The senator acknowledged that he remains an underdog in the race but said that he is picking up momentum in terms of crowds and fund-raising. He estimated that he has received about 200,000 donations averaging about $40 each.

“This is not a protest campaign,” Mr. Sanders said when asked if he really believed he could beat Mrs. Clinton. “I am in this election to win.”
Click to expand...
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/06/11/bernie-sanders-demands-hillary-clinton-take-trade-stance-right-now/
Click to expand...
nice to see saints becoming a socialist

 
Fennis said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Bernie Sanders Demands Hillary Clinton Take Trade Stance ‘Right Now’Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont delivered a sharp critique of Hillary Rodham Clinton on Thursday for her reluctance to talk about issues as a presidential candidate and vowed that he is running against her to win.

Mr. Sanders, an independent who is seeking the Democratic nomination, said he is offended by Mrs. Clinton’s silence on trade and urged her to share her real views with voters.

“Trade policies have been disastrous,” Mr. Sanders said at a breakfast hosted by The Christian Science Monitor in Washington. “If she’s against this, we need her to speak out, right now.”

Mr. Sanders then listed a number of issues where he said Mrs. Clinton has failed to share her views, including climate change, the Keystone Pipeline and the renewal of the Patriot Act.

“What is the secretary’s point of view on that?” he asked of the act that he voted against.

Promising to run a campaign without personal attacks, Mr. Sanders questioned Mrs. Clinton on how she plans to address the influence of the “billionaire class” and said that her vote to authorize the 2003 Iraq War raised questions about her judgment.

“I’m not here to criticize a vote that she cast years ago,” Mr. Sanders said. “But what does that mean about your judgment assessing information?”

The comments from Mr. Sanders come as Mrs. Clinton is about to formally kick off her campaign with a rally in New York this weekend.

The senator acknowledged that he remains an underdog in the race but said that he is picking up momentum in terms of crowds and fund-raising. He estimated that he has received about 200,000 donations averaging about $40 each.

“This is not a protest campaign,” Mr. Sanders said when asked if he really believed he could beat Mrs. Clinton. “I am in this election to win.”
Click to expand...
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/06/11/bernie-sanders-demands-hillary-clinton-take-trade-stance-right-now/
Click to expand...
nice to see saints becoming a socialist
Click to expand...
Several of those issues - TPP, Patriot Act, Keystone - are potentially bipartisan, and no matter what a candidate should have a position on all those things. I will say Hillary has her speech on Saturday so hopefully she lays it all out then. Of course the vote on the TPP will be tomorrow I think, and the vote on the Patriot Act already passed, so she has lent none of her weight on those big issues. She and Bill have taken money - as in cash, not campaign contributions - from banks backing Keystone.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Fennis said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Bernie Sanders Demands Hillary Clinton Take Trade Stance ‘Right Now’

Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont delivered a sharp critique of Hillary Rodham Clinton on Thursday for her reluctance to talk about issues as a presidential candidate and vowed that he is running against her to win.

Mr. Sanders, an independent who is seeking the Democratic nomination, said he is offended by Mrs. Clinton’s silence on trade and urged her to share her real views with voters.

“Trade policies have been disastrous,” Mr. Sanders said at a breakfast hosted by The Christian Science Monitor in Washington. “If she’s against this, we need her to speak out, right now.”

Mr. Sanders then listed a number of issues where he said Mrs. Clinton has failed to share her views, including climate change, the Keystone Pipeline and the renewal of the Patriot Act.

“What is the secretary’s point of view on that?” he asked of the act that he voted against.

Promising to run a campaign without personal attacks, Mr. Sanders questioned Mrs. Clinton on how she plans to address the influence of the “billionaire class” and said that her vote to authorize the 2003 Iraq War raised questions about her judgment.

“I’m not here to criticize a vote that she cast years ago,” Mr. Sanders said. “But what does that mean about your judgment assessing information?”

The comments from Mr. Sanders come as Mrs. Clinton is about to formally kick off her campaign with a rally in New York this weekend.

The senator acknowledged that he remains an underdog in the race but said that he is picking up momentum in terms of crowds and fund-raising. He estimated that he has received about 200,000 donations averaging about $40 each.

“This is not a protest campaign,” Mr. Sanders said when asked if he really believed he could beat Mrs. Clinton. “I am in this election to win.”
Click to expand...
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/06/11/bernie-sanders-demands-hillary-clinton-take-trade-stance-right-now/
Click to expand...
nice to see saints becoming a socialist
Click to expand...
Several of those issues - TPP, Patriot Act, Keystone - are potentially bipartisan, and no matter what a candidate should have a position on all those things. I will say Hillary has her speech on Saturday so hopefully she lays it all out then. Of course the vote on the TPP will be tomorrow I think, and the vote on the Patriot Act already passed, so she has lent none of her weight on those big issues. She and Bill have taken money - as in cash, not campaign contributions - from banks backing Keystone.
Click to expand...
The are bipartisan in both their support and their opposition. We all know exactly where Hilary stands on these, so it is pretty sad she won't even say it.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Fennis said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Bernie Sanders Demands Hillary Clinton Take Trade Stance ‘Right Now’Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont delivered a sharp critique of Hillary Rodham Clinton on Thursday for her reluctance to talk about issues as a presidential candidate and vowed that he is running against her to win.

Mr. Sanders, an independent who is seeking the Democratic nomination, said he is offended by Mrs. Clinton’s silence on trade and urged her to share her real views with voters.

“Trade policies have been disastrous,” Mr. Sanders said at a breakfast hosted by The Christian Science Monitor in Washington. “If she’s against this, we need her to speak out, right now.”

Mr. Sanders then listed a number of issues where he said Mrs. Clinton has failed to share her views, including climate change, the Keystone Pipeline and the renewal of the Patriot Act.

“What is the secretary’s point of view on that?” he asked of the act that he voted against.

Promising to run a campaign without personal attacks, Mr. Sanders questioned Mrs. Clinton on how she plans to address the influence of the “billionaire class” and said that her vote to authorize the 2003 Iraq War raised questions about her judgment.

“I’m not here to criticize a vote that she cast years ago,” Mr. Sanders said. “But what does that mean about your judgment assessing information?”

The comments from Mr. Sanders come as Mrs. Clinton is about to formally kick off her campaign with a rally in New York this weekend.

The senator acknowledged that he remains an underdog in the race but said that he is picking up momentum in terms of crowds and fund-raising. He estimated that he has received about 200,000 donations averaging about $40 each.

“This is not a protest campaign,” Mr. Sanders said when asked if he really believed he could beat Mrs. Clinton. “I am in this election to win.”
Click to expand...
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/06/11/bernie-sanders-demands-hillary-clinton-take-trade-stance-right-now/
Click to expand...
nice to see saints becoming a socialist
Click to expand...
Several of those issues - TPP, Patriot Act, Keystone - are potentially bipartisan, and no matter what a candidate should have a position on all those things. I will say Hillary has her speech on Saturday so hopefully she lays it all out then. Of course the vote on the TPP will be tomorrow I think, and the vote on the Patriot Act already passed, so she has lent none of her weight on those big issues. She and Bill have taken money - as in cash, not campaign contributions - from banks backing Keystone.
Click to expand...
We all know where she stands. I doubt she says much about them.

 
timschochet said:
Yeah I'm surprised by the the level of Bernies criticism against Hillary. Somebody's giving him poor advice IMO.
Click to expand...
Last I checked she was the overwhelming front runner. You cant sit back and make nice. If he wants it, which it sounds like he does, you have to go on an offensive.

I have been reading this thread and reading up on him. I like him and would be much happier voting for him in the election than Hillary.

 
AcerFC said:
timschochet said:
Yeah I'm surprised by the the level of Bernies criticism against Hillary. Somebody's giving him poor advice IMO.
Click to expand...
Last I checked she was the overwhelming front runner. You cant sit back and make nice. If he wants it, which it sounds like he does, you have to go on an offensive.I have been reading this thread and reading up on him. I like him and would be much happier voting for him in the election than Hillary.
Click to expand...
He has no shot of winning the nomination. None. All he can do if he goes after Hillary is weaken her in the general election. It's not smart IMO.
 
From the Democrats who will run vs. Hillary thread:

timschochet said:
In fact the answer to the question in the title of this thread is: none. There are no Democrats that will run AGAINST Hillary. The ones who put their names on the ballot may engage in quiet sniping, a few muted criticisms here and there, but if you're looking for real hard and heavy attacks, look elsewhere. Hillary's Democratic opponents are the French army.
Click to expand...
OK, that piece of political analysis has been proven completely wrong.

timschochet said:
AcerFC said:
timschochet said:
Yeah I'm surprised by the the level of Bernies criticism against Hillary. Somebody's giving him poor advice IMO.
Click to expand...
Last I checked she was the overwhelming front runner. You cant sit back and make nice. If he wants it, which it sounds like he does, you have to go on an offensive.

I have been reading this thread and reading up on him. I like him and would be much happier voting for him in the election than Hillary.
Click to expand...
He has no shot of winning the nomination. None. All he can do if he goes after Hillary is weaken her in the general election. It's not smart IMO.
Click to expand...
I guess if someone were giving him advice on how not to be competitive, then having him criticize the front-runner would be a mistake. But as he is actually trying to win the nomination, and has been making tremendous headway since his campaign launch, then I'd say he's been getting outstanding advice.

Why are you even in this thread? Your blind obeisance to Hillary has you criticizing everything that's detrimental to her as "bad advice" and "not smart."

I'll ask you again - How many times do you think Team Hillary will allow her to be on the same stage as Bernie? Everyone knows that would be a disaster for her. Rather than offer substantive reasons why voters should select her as the best President of the U.S., she's campaigning on nothing but the inevitability of her own nomination. "Vote for me because I'm going to win anyway" is not exactly compelling. Worse than that, it's not getting her ready for a general election battle. I would argue that facing serious competition in the primaries will serve her far better in the general election than any "weakening" she might sustain from facing a genuine primary opponent.

 
For the record, Hillary appeared in 26 debates leading up to the 2008 Democratic convention - Obama was at 25 of those.

I put the over/under for debates Hillary appears in before the 2016 convention at 6.

 
The_Man said:
From the Democrats who will run vs. Hillary thread:

timschochet said:
In fact the answer to the question in the title of this thread is: none. There are no Democrats that will run AGAINST Hillary. The ones who put their names on the ballot may engage in quiet sniping, a few muted criticisms here and there, but if you're looking for real hard and heavy attacks, look elsewhere. Hillary's Democratic opponents are the French army.
Click to expand...
OK, that piece of political analysis has been proven completely wrong.

timschochet said:
AcerFC said:
timschochet said:
Yeah I'm surprised by the the level of Bernies criticism against Hillary. Somebody's giving him poor advice IMO.
Click to expand...
Last I checked she was the overwhelming front runner. You cant sit back and make nice. If he wants it, which it sounds like he does, you have to go on an offensive.I have been reading this thread and reading up on him. I like him and would be much happier voting for him in the election than Hillary.
Click to expand...
He has no shot of winning the nomination. None. All he can do if he goes after Hillary is weaken her in the general election. It's not smart IMO.
Click to expand...
I guess if someone were giving him advice on how not to be competitive, then having him criticize the front-runner would be a mistake. But as he is actually trying to win the nomination, and has been making tremendous headway since his campaign launch, then I'd say he's been getting outstanding advice.

Why are you even in this thread? Your blind obeisance to Hillary has you criticizing everything that's detrimental to her as "bad advice" and "not smart."

I'll ask you again - How many times do you think Team Hillary will allow her to be on the same stage as Bernie? Everyone knows that would be a disaster for her. Rather than offer substantive reasons why voters should select her as the best President of the U.S., she's campaigning on nothing but the inevitability of her own nomination. "Vote for me because I'm going to win anyway" is not exactly compelling. Worse than that, it's not getting her ready for a general election battle. I would argue that facing serious competition in the primaries will serve her far better in the general election than any "weakening" she might sustain from facing a genuine primary opponent.
Click to expand...
First off, I'm not wrong in my prediction. These are small attacks, little snipes. They're not really significant in terms of helping Sanders, but they're just dumb IMO. Sanders, like every Democratic candidate in opposition to Hillary, will make 9 criticisms against conservatives for every 1 against Hillary. But of course it's the one against Hillary that will receive media attention. He should realize this.

Second, what you call blind obeisance to Hillary is simply this: I am for the Democrat in this election, because I am a centrist, and the GOP has now moved so far to the right that the Democrat, meaning Hillary, occupies the center position. That's why I want her to win. I don't think she's perfect by any means. But she's by far the best candidate running, at least for me. So I don't want to see her hurt in the primaries. Sanders has no shot of winning, and I doubt that his motive is ultimately to help a Republican win, so I think he should be careful not to hurt Hillary too much. Despite what he says now, and despite what you and others think, I believe that ultimately he gets this.

As for the debates: of the 26 debates that took place in 2007-8, Hillary won 25 of them. She did so through her vast knowledge and expertise and terrific debating skills, something people forget about. The only one she lost was in December of 2007 when she was caught off guard by a question about drivers' licenses for illegals. That debate helped Hillary lose in Iowa, though it was not the main cause of it. This time around, Hillary will do just fine in debates, whether it's 6 or 26. Your analysis of Hillary's people fearing debates is completely wrongheaded IMO. They don't fear Sanders at ALL. What they may fear, given her status, is a certain amount of overexposure, and that will cause them, perhaps, to limit the number of debates.

The truth is very few people are going to watch any of the Democratic debates anyhow, beyond the politicos like you and me. They're mostly going to be genial affairs, and everybody knows what the outcome will be anyhow.

And yes, I could be wrong about all of this: Sanders could rise up and find a way to beat Hillary, or some new scandal could arise that could destroy her. I don't see either of those things happening, but I suppose in this world anything's possible. If it did happen, Bernie Sanders in a general election would make McGovern and Dukakis seem like electoral triumphs for the Democratic party.

 
timschochet said:
AcerFC said:
timschochet said:
Yeah I'm surprised by the the level of Bernies criticism against Hillary. Somebody's giving him poor advice IMO.
Click to expand...
Last I checked she was the overwhelming front runner. You cant sit back and make nice. If he wants it, which it sounds like he does, you have to go on an offensive.I have been reading this thread and reading up on him. I like him and would be much happier voting for him in the election than Hillary.
Click to expand...
He has no shot of winning the nomination. None. All he can do if he goes after Hillary is weaken her in the general election. It's not smart IMO.
Click to expand...
I agree he has no shot. However, he wants to move her to left on key issues.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Lets assume you are right and Hillary won every debate, but one. What's that say about her about a candidate that she can win every single debate, but still couldn't win the nomination?

 
Fennis said:
Lets assume you are right and Hillary won every debate, but one. What's that say about her about a candidate that she can win every single debate, but still couldn't win the nomination?
Click to expand...
Paper Champion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yay us!!!!! Just what we need!!!!!!!

 
AcerFC said:
timschochet said:
Yeah I'm surprised by the the level of Bernies criticism against Hillary. Somebody's giving him poor advice IMO.
Click to expand...
Last I checked she was the overwhelming front runner. You cant sit back and make nice. If he wants it, which it sounds like he does, you have to go on an offensive.

I have been reading this thread and reading up on him. I like him and would be much happier voting for him in the election than Hillary.
Click to expand...
How dare Bernie ask Hilary to actually state her opinions!!! Undue criticism for sure.

 
Slapdash said:
AcerFC said:
timschochet said:
Yeah I'm surprised by the the level of Bernies criticism against Hillary. Somebody's giving him poor advice IMO.
Click to expand...
Last I checked she was the overwhelming front runner. You cant sit back and make nice. If he wants it, which it sounds like he does, you have to go on an offensive.

I have been reading this thread and reading up on him. I like him and would be much happier voting for him in the election than Hillary.
Click to expand...
How dare Bernie ask Hilary to actually state her opinions!!! Undue criticism for sure.
Click to expand...
That wasn't the criticism I was speaking of.

This is:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/senator-bernie-sanders-calls-hillary-clinton-foundation-money/story?id=30687863

Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vermont, said he is concerned by the millions of dollars flowing into the Clinton Foundation

This is the sort of thing, IMO, he should leave to the Republican party.

 
timschochet said:
The_Man said:
From the Democrats who will run vs. Hillary thread:

timschochet said:
In fact the answer to the question in the title of this thread is: none. There are no Democrats that will run AGAINST Hillary. The ones who put their names on the ballot may engage in quiet sniping, a few muted criticisms here and there, but if you're looking for real hard and heavy attacks, look elsewhere. Hillary's Democratic opponents are the French army.
Click to expand...
OK, that piece of political analysis has been proven completely wrong.

timschochet said:
AcerFC said:
timschochet said:
Yeah I'm surprised by the the level of Bernies criticism against Hillary. Somebody's giving him poor advice IMO.
Click to expand...
Last I checked she was the overwhelming front runner. You cant sit back and make nice. If he wants it, which it sounds like he does, you have to go on an offensive.I have been reading this thread and reading up on him. I like him and would be much happier voting for him in the election than Hillary.
Click to expand...
He has no shot of winning the nomination. None. All he can do if he goes after Hillary is weaken her in the general election. It's not smart IMO.
Click to expand...
I guess if someone were giving him advice on how not to be competitive, then having him criticize the front-runner would be a mistake. But as he is actually trying to win the nomination, and has been making tremendous headway since his campaign launch, then I'd say he's been getting outstanding advice.

Why are you even in this thread? Your blind obeisance to Hillary has you criticizing everything that's detrimental to her as "bad advice" and "not smart."

I'll ask you again - How many times do you think Team Hillary will allow her to be on the same stage as Bernie? Everyone knows that would be a disaster for her. Rather than offer substantive reasons why voters should select her as the best President of the U.S., she's campaigning on nothing but the inevitability of her own nomination. "Vote for me because I'm going to win anyway" is not exactly compelling. Worse than that, it's not getting her ready for a general election battle. I would argue that facing serious competition in the primaries will serve her far better in the general election than any "weakening" she might sustain from facing a genuine primary opponent.
Click to expand...
First off, I'm not wrong in my prediction. These are small attacks, little snipes. They're not really significant in terms of helping Sanders, but they're just dumb IMO. Sanders, like every Democratic candidate in opposition to Hillary, will make 9 criticisms against conservatives for every 1 against Hillary. But of course it's the one against Hillary that will receive media attention. He should realize this.

Second, what you call blind obeisance to Hillary is simply this: I am for the Democrat in this election, because I am a centrist, and the GOP has now moved so far to the right that the Democrat, meaning Hillary, occupies the center position. That's why I want her to win. I don't think she's perfect by any means. But she's by far the best candidate running, at least for me. So I don't want to see her hurt in the primaries. Sanders has no shot of winning, and I doubt that his motive is ultimately to help a Republican win, so I think he should be careful not to hurt Hillary too much. Despite what he says now, and despite what you and others think, I believe that ultimately he gets this.

As for the debates: of the 26 debates that took place in 2007-8, Hillary won 25 of them. She did so through her vast knowledge and expertise and terrific debating skills, something people forget about. The only one she lost was in December of 2007 when she was caught off guard by a question about drivers' licenses for illegals. That debate helped Hillary lose in Iowa, though it was not the main cause of it. This time around, Hillary will do just fine in debates, whether it's 6 or 26. Your analysis of Hillary's people fearing debates is completely wrongheaded IMO. They don't fear Sanders at ALL. What they may fear, given her status, is a certain amount of overexposure, and that will cause them, perhaps, to limit the number of debates.

The truth is very few people are going to watch any of the Democratic debates anyhow, beyond the politicos like you and me. They're mostly going to be genial affairs, and everybody knows what the outcome will be anyhow.

And yes, I could be wrong about all of this: Sanders could rise up and find a way to beat Hillary, or some new scandal could arise that could destroy her. I don't see either of those things happening, but I suppose in this world anything's possible. If it did happen, Bernie Sanders in a general election would make McGovern and Dukakis seem like electoral triumphs for the Democratic party.
Click to expand...
Where to begin on this?

Aside from the alleged 25-1 record vs Obama you've purely dreamed up...

Bill Clinton was and is one of the great extemporaneous speakers and emoters of modern presidential history.

Obama is one of the greatest moving speakers in modern presidential history.

Hillary may be great at a lot of things, probably preparation being among them, she may even give the greatest speech of her life at Rosie Island (remains to be seen) tomorrow, but she is neither of the above. The only "great" debate moment I can recall from her was when Rick Lazio, the tomato can who filled in for Rudy Giuliani, tried to move into her personal space during a debate. The worst debate moment I recall from her was when she simultaneously adopted two opposite positions on immigration in the span of 20 minutes, Maybe right after that was when she tried to take down Obama for his connections to Ayers and Wright.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Fennis said:
Lets assume you are right and Hillary won every debate, but one. What's that say about her about a candidate that she can win every single debate, but still couldn't win the nomination?
Click to expand...
It says 2 things:

1. She was a poor frontrunner last time around, with bad advice. Personally, I didn't care. I was for McCain anyhow, as he occupied the center position, up until the time he selected Palin. At that point, I wasn't for anyone.

2. She faced a once in a generation candidate in Barack Obama.

 
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