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2021 Houston Texans - (1 Viewer)

Long rant on the Texans oline to follow:

So on the face of things, Tunsil will significantly help the Texans line by giving them an anchor which they can build around. Having one strong lineman can help out the other lineman because the strong lineman basically doesn't need any help and help can then be given other places on the line, so the whole line then performs better. I worry though, that BOB's record with Olineman performance is very dismal. Part of the reason for this I think is because O'Brien's offense is supposedly very complicated. I think it involves every position making reads of the defense and therefore everybody is not on the same page if they are not reading the same thing.  This could have a negative affect on Tunsil.  Let's consider O'Brien's history:

In O'Brien's first season (2014) he inherited 4 starters: Duane Brown, Chris Myers, Barrett Brooks, and Derrick Newton. The Texans released Wade Smith before the season so they started Ben Jones at left guard who had been a backup on the team. Those 5 players started all 16 games in the 2014 season except one game which Brooks did not start. Myers retired after the 2014 season. Newton was eventually lost to a career ending injury. Jones and Brooks started 2 seasons for O'Brien and then left when they were not re-signed after their rookie deals ended after the 2015 season. Brown held out in a contract dispute in 2017 and was traded to the Seahawks. So how have those offensive line starters fared since they left the Texans:

  • Jones has started all 48 games he has played with the Tennessee Titams
  • Brooks has started 46 of 48 games he has played with the Philadelphia Eagles and was selected to the Pro Bowl in 2017 and 2018.
  • Brown has started all 25 games he has played with the Seattle Seahawks, and played at a high level in 2018.
So point #1: O'Brien lets productive starters go.

So how does O'Brien do with the lineman the Texans have drafted?

  • In 2014 the Texans selected Xavier Sua-Filo with the 1st pick of the second round. He was the primary starter at left guard for the 2015 to 2017 seasons but was not resigned when his rookie deal ended. He was a poor to average starter.
  • In 2015, no lineman drafted
  • In 2016, the Texans drafted Nick Martin in the second round. After missing his rookie year with an injury, Martin has started the last 2 seasons at center. He has been average at best.
  • In 2017, the Texans drafted Julian Davenport in the 4th round and Kyle Fuller in the 7th round. Davenport was the primary starter at Left Tackle in 2018 and was okay. He was just traded to Miami in the Tunsil deal. Fuller played mostly as a backup in 2017 and was let go after one season.
  • In 2018, the Texans drafted Martinas Rankin in the 3rd round and he started 4 games as a rookie. He did not play very well. He probably would have been cut this year but was sent to Kansas City for Carlos Hyde.
  • Finally in 2019, the Texans used their first round pick on Tytus Howard and one of their second round picks on Max Sharping. Both were Tackles but O'Brien is having them play at guard and both may start this season.
How about Free Agency? Have the Texans had any success there? Not really. But it should be noted that they really haven't signed any big names in free agency. They supposedly were going after Nate Solder and Roger Saffold in 2018 and 2019 but they missed on signing both of them. The free agents they have signed who have had significant starts on the oline include Greg Mancz, Jeff Allen, Chris Clark, Bruno Giacomini, Semio Kelemete, Zach Fulton,  and Kendall Lamm. Seantral Henderson was going to be the starter at right tackle last year but got hurt in the first game. None of the other free agents have been particularly notable although Mancz, Kelemete, and Fulton remain on the team as back-ups and Fulton may replace Martin as starter or may start at right guard this year.

So point #2: O'Brien and the front office have not brought in a lot of talent up until this year when they have used 4 1st round picks and one second round pick to bring in 3 lineman.

My theory is there is three components to a good offensive line: talent, coaching, and continuity. From my first two points the Texans have let good talent leave and have not replaced it with good talent up until possibly this offseason. So what about the coaching? Bill O'Brien has been the  de facto offensive coordinator for the Texans since he got there and since 2015 Mike Devlin has been the offensive line coach. Based on the above, even if the talent being brought in was subpar, there are really no examples of the Texans developing any of their lineman to be productive starters. As a result of this, the turnover on the line has been very high. There is no continuity. This hurts the line in that no one knows what the player next to them is going to do because that player is not the same player for very long.

So my final point to this long and rambling post is that Tunsil, Howard, and Sharping, with the talent they should have based on where they were drafted, should help this line to be better this season. But they will be working under O'Brien and Devlin who have shown no ability to build a solid offensive line. Hopefully the talent overcomes the coaching deficiencies and the Texans are finally on their way to having a line that can protect Watson for years to come. But I will not be at all surprised to see continued struggles on the line if O'Brien continues to run a complicated offense which prevents his line from working well with each other.

 
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"These moves were part of a plan, something that was well thought out, spent a lot of time on it and tried to execute the plan," O'Brien told reporters. "It's not just a plan to improve the team for 2019, it's a plan to improve the roster for years to come..." ~ BOB

:eek:   This guy is delusional.  

 
rockaction said:
#1 DVOA vs. run, #19 vs. pass
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They just traded away an elite run-defender/decent pass-rusher and let an elite run-stuffing (but huge pass defense liability) safety (Kareem Jackson) as well as a solid all around but overrated because he freelances too much safety in Honey Badger go in free agency. Their FA pickups weren't anything exciting as their former GM was super cheap in the offseason. Defense will take a major step back this year, if they are going to win games it will be with a high flying offense. Which despite BOB's resume before he was hired, it has yet to materialize in Houston.

 
They didn't even free up any cap space by making these moves, they shipped off Clowney's franchise tag but absorbed a ridiculous contract in Stills ($8M) and a number of other ones that add up in Mingo ($4.2M), Duke ($2.2M), Tunesil ($2M and $10M next year), and Hyde ($1.7M).

 
Buckna said:
They didn't even free up any cap space by making these moves, they shipped off Clowney's franchise tag but absorbed a ridiculous contract in Stills ($8M) and a number of other ones that add up in Mingo ($4.2M), Duke ($2.2M), Tunesil ($2M and $10M next year), and Hyde ($1.7M).
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It's worse than that. As part of the trade with Seattle, the Texans absorbed $7 million of Clowney's salary this season both in real dollars and cap dollars. So they actually got worse from a cap perspective with the moves they made. I just checked it on overthecap.com and the Texan's have $7 million of dead money from Clowney this season. Seattle is only taking an $8.9 million cap hit on Clowney.

 
Buckna said:
They didn't even free up any cap space by making these moves, they shipped off Clowney's franchise tag but absorbed a ridiculous contract in Stills ($8M) and a number of other ones that add up in Mingo ($4.2M), Duke ($2.2M), Tunesil ($2M and $10M next year), and Hyde ($1.7M).
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Don't get me wrong, there's a lot here to criticize, but this wasn't a cap thing tied to Clowney.   Even if he was playing out the tag here, or had been re-signed, they'd have to pickup another RB and you wouldn't expect that to be a savings. The same with if they are picking up a LT and WR.  Those are all independent.

To me the bigger cap issue is how horribly Tunsil is going to have to be overpaid. He's like a league average LT at present, but has the leverage for a highest-paid LT contract now (what are we going to let him walk after giving up what we did?).   Lump in the lost cap savings you normally get from having two 1st round picks playing on rookie contracts for 5 years and account for that and he's going to be near the top of the league in terms of cost to us.

 
GregR said:
Don't get me wrong, there's a lot here to criticize, but this wasn't a cap thing tied to Clowney.   Even if he was playing out the tag here, or had been re-signed, they'd have to pickup another RB and you wouldn't expect that to be a savings. The same with if they are picking up a LT and WR.  Those are all independent.

To me the bigger cap issue is how horribly Tunsil is going to have to be overpaid. He's like a league average LT at present, but has the leverage for a highest-paid LT contract now (what are we going to let him walk after giving up what we did?).   Lump in the lost cap savings you normally get from having two 1st round picks playing on rookie contracts for 5 years and account for that and he's going to be near the top of the league in terms of cost to us.
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I get that the Clowney deal wasn't about the cap. But the fact is because the Texans didn't trade Clowney before the July 15th deadline, they had to eat $7 million of his current salary to get a trade to go through now. While the Texans weren't going to use those cap dollars in this cap year, the fact is they could have rolled into the next cap year which would have helped in signing key free agents or signing current players to long term contracts. Add in that Matt Kalil (which was a terrible signing) now counts as $2.25 million of dead money against your cap and that is $9.25 million that the Texans won't have to use either to sign long term contracts or to sign free agents next year.

 
GregR said:
To me the bigger cap issue is how horribly Tunsil is going to have to be overpaid. He's like a league average LT at present, but has the leverage for a highest-paid LT contract now (what are we going to let him walk after giving up what we did?).   Lump in the lost cap savings you normally get from having two 1st round picks playing on rookie contracts for 5 years and account for that and he's going to be near the top of the league in terms of cost to us.
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Absolutely.  He has the Texans by the balls much like Clowney did after July 15 but Bob won't realize it until sometime in 2020.  Those early draft picks are really going to hurt us in the coming years.  

 
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Major said:
Absolutely.  He has the Texans by the balls much like Clowney did after July 15 but Bob won't realize it until sometime in 2020.  Those early draft picks are really going to hurt us in the coming years.  
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No idea how BOB or any future regime could dig us out of this draft pick hole. You can't trade Watt, the fanbase would riot. You can't trade Watson. Hopkins contract is tradable next year but you'd be talking about sending away a star WR in his prime at 28, then who would Watson throw to? No one else on the roster is worth trading for multiple picks or something approaching a 1st rounder. Unless BOB goes nuts in FA next year with the cap dollars available but then you've got to extend Tunesil & eventually Watson.

 
You know, I was trying to figure out how to split the picks given between Stills and Tunsil, to compare Stills to other trades. The 2nd for Stills and two 1sts for Tunsil? I guess that's kind of what I was going with, and looking at Antonio Brown traded for a 3rd and 5th. Which might be an early 3rd and 5th, compared to a hopefully late 2nd given for Stills, so fairly close maybe. And AB being obviously higher performing but also older. Also AB then got a 3 year $50m extension with $30m guaranteed on top of the pick cost.

Anyway, was thinking about an Antonio Brown comparison specifically given all that, when I read the info about AB getting suspended by the Raiders. Maybe Stills for a 2nd is the better part of that comparison?

 
GregR said:
You know, I was trying to figure out how to split the picks given between Stills and Tunsil, to compare Stills to other trades. The 2nd for Stills and two 1sts for Tunsil? I guess that's kind of what I was going with, and looking at Antonio Brown traded for a 3rd and 5th. Which might be an early 3rd and 5th, compared to a hopefully late 2nd given for Stills, so fairly close maybe. And AB being obviously higher performing but also older. Also AB then got a 3 year $50m extension with $30m guaranteed on top of the pick cost.

Anyway, was thinking about an Antonio Brown comparison specifically given all that, when I read the info about AB getting suspended by the Raiders. Maybe Stills for a 2nd is the better part of that comparison?
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Isn't Stills just insurance for continued injuries to Coutee and/or Fuller? Love to read your Texans' opinions.

 
Major said:
"These moves were part of a plan, something that was well thought out, spent a lot of time on it and tried to execute the plan," O'Brien told reporters. "It's not just a plan to improve the team for 2019, it's a plan to improve the roster for years to come..." ~ BOB

:eek:   This guy is delusional.  
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It was a delusional plan for sure.

 
Stephen Holloway said:
Isn't Stills just insurance for continued injuries to Coutee and/or Fuller? Love to read your Texans' opinions.
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I honestly think it's hard to say at this point. Fuller and Stills are both under contract through 2020. Say hypothetically that Fuller gets hurt again and Stills stays healthy and is able to fill the stretch the field role adequately. Which of the two would  you consider extending longer term going into their final seasons?

I'm sure being insurance is part of it, but I think he could bring a bit more to it than just that.

 
So the Texans go into the season with a line that basically hasn't played together (Texans starts: Martin 30, Fulton 16, Henderson 1, Tunsil 0, Howard 0), none of the RB's have played a regular season game for the Texans, Fells may start and he hasn't played a game for the Texans. So the offense may eventually be good, but I could definitely see them struggling early as everyone tries to get on the same page and playing in front of one of the loudest fan bases in the league. Without Clowney, Brees may have plenty of time to throw, and the Texans secondary isn't good enough yet to cover for a long time. I see this as a Saints blowout.

 
dhockster said:
So the Texans go into the season with a line that basically hasn't played together (Texans starts: Martin 30, Fulton 16, Henderson 1, Tunsil 0, Howard 0), none of the RB's have played a regular season game for the Texans, Fells may start and he hasn't played a game for the Texans. So the offense may eventually be good, but I could definitely see them struggling early as everyone tries to get on the same page and playing in front of one of the loudest fan bases in the league. Without Clowney, Brees may have plenty of time to throw, and the Texans secondary isn't good enough yet to cover for a long time. I see this as a Saints blowout.
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I think 3-3 is possible to start off the season if everything goes their way and the offense plays well ( :lol: ), but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see them 1-5 at that point either. After that things lighten up considerably with the Ravens and Pats the only scary teams on the schedule outside of the division.

All depends on how they do in division overall, for the moment, none of the other 3 teams are all that threatening now that Luck is gone. If they can't win 4 or 5 in division, gonna be a long year. Probably gonna be a long year no matter what, and having the Titans twice out of the last 3 games ought to be interesting.

 
Pretty good synopsis from the BattleRed Texans blog:

The Bad, and the “What Just Happened?!?”  One possible timeline for the fleecing of Houston’s front seven.

Giving up on Jadeveon Clowney seems to have been a master class in how not to manage a football team. While we may never know exactly how it went down, chances are it looked something like this:

1.The Texans offer Clowney an insulting, low-ball long term contract extension that he would be crazy to accept.

2. Bus Cook and Brian Gaine try to get something done, but can’t, which ultimately leads to both of them getting fired.

3. Bill O’Brien jumps into the deep end to fill the void, with only the experience of roster management that he got at Penn State - which doesn’t work with grown men who no longer care about their scholarships and draft stock.

4. O’Brien decides to try to work out a trade with the Dolphins, in large part because they have a stud left tackle and the new head coach there has connections to the Patriots.

5. Clowney learns that the Texans are trying to trade him. Having planned on reporting to the Texans last week and playing under the franchise tag for Houston in 2019, he’s not happy about that, and he’s even less happy that he’d be going to the Dolphins in such a deal.

6. Clowney starts chatting with friends, including Duane Brown, who knows all about Houston’s problems. The Seahawks become Clowney’s preferred landing spot, and Clowney has leverage he wouldn’t otherwise have had, as he hasn’t signed the franchise tag deal, and the deadline for other teams to sign him to a long-term deal after executing a trade passed more than a month ago.

7. O’Brien’s efforts to trade Clowney to Miami fail. Whether it’s primarily because Clowney made it clear he won’t sign his tender to allow a trade to Miami, or because Miami’s asking price for Laremy Tunsil in a Clowney trade is deemed too high, or some combination of the two, doesn’t really matter.

8. The rest of the NFL, knowing Houston is imploding and there’s no general manager to counter O’Brien, sit and wait.

9. The Seahawks manage to convince O’Brien he’s better off ridding his locker room of the “cancerous” Jadeveon Clowney - a teammate the defensive linemen were just bragging about in practice. A player seemingly beloved by his teammates in Houston.

10. Houston, having waited entirely too long to address the situation and instead choosing to play the waiting game, decides it has to act NOW and gets pantsed in one of the worst trades in NFL history.

11. O’Brien, aware of how poorly the Texans made out in the Clowney trade, quickly pays through the nose to ensure that the single biggest complaint everyone had about the Texans last season—the offensive line and specifically the glaring hole at left tackle—is addressed, and addressed in the form of a player who could very well serve as a franchise cornerstone for the next decade.

12. Bill O’Brien pats himself on the back for robbing Peter to pay Paul, essentially cutting off one end of a blanket, sewing it on the other end, and bragging about having a longer blanket now.

:kicksrock:

 
Tough way to end last night but they looked very promising.  Oline not much better but I think Tunsil will be better.  Maybe they can put JJ Watt in the backfield in certain sets to protect Watson.  Bet he can pick up a blitz.  Either way they're going to have to improve and/or find lineman in FA.  Draft pick situation doesn't look good.  

Deshaun looked great but I worry about his longevity with the hits he keeps taking.  Hyde and Duke played well and the WR corp looks very good.  

Defense looks good as well sans the lax coverage on the last offensive play.  Gotta play up on the wideouts there when Brees only needs 7 yards.  Why play prevent with safeties 30 yards down field?  Wasn't going to be a hail mary.  

 
Jayrok said:
Tough way to end last night but they looked very promising.  Oline not much better but I think Tunsil will be better.  Maybe they can put JJ Watt in the backfield in certain sets to protect Watson.  Bet he can pick up a blitz.  Either way they're going to have to improve and/or find lineman in FA.  Draft pick situation doesn't look good.  

Deshaun looked great but I worry about his longevity with the hits he keeps taking.  Hyde and Duke played well and the WR corp looks very good.  

Defense looks good as well sans the lax coverage on the last offensive play.  Gotta play up on the wideouts there when Brees only needs 7 yards.  Why play prevent with safeties 30 yards down field?  Wasn't going to be a hail mary.  
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Me too.   Is AJ McCarron worth a roster spot if Deshaun goes down?

 
Godsbrother said:
Me too.   Is AJ McCarron worth a roster spot if Deshaun goes down?
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Maybe,  I have Watson too and if he plays like he did last night it is hard to see him lasting the season without some serious injury happening.   Watson is still young enough to absorb the punishment but the hits take their toll on the body.  Cam Newton is by far the biggest, strongest QB and his body is breaking down from the abuse. Watsons frame is much smaller, after his TD run he was shaken up.

 
Major said:
9. The Seahawks manage to convince O’Brien he’s better off ridding his locker room of the “cancerous” Jadeveon Clowney - a teammate the defensive linemen were just bragging about in practice. A player seemingly beloved by his teammates in Houston.
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This point is a major stretch.  If Clowney was either a cancer or beloved by his teammates, internally, the coaching staff would know.  More plausible scenario was, the Texans didn't want to pay Clowney long-term, especially when you see what good edge rushers are getting Khalil Mack (23.5M per), DeMarcus Lawrence (21M per), Frank Clark (20.8M per).  It makes smart fiscal sense to go with second and third tier guys and have a rotation.  

 
Snotbubbles said:
This point is a major stretch.  If Clowney was either a cancer or beloved by his teammates, internally, the coaching staff would know.  More plausible scenario was, the Texans didn't want to pay Clowney long-term, especially when you see what good edge rushers are getting Khalil Mack (23.5M per), DeMarcus Lawrence (21M per), Frank Clark (20.8M per).  It makes smart fiscal sense to go with second and third tier guys and have a rotation.  
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Except losing Clowney not only weakens his position, it may significantly weaken JJ Watt because the other team doesn't have to worry about Clowney and can double and triple team Watt. Watt has been successful without Clowney but that was 5 years and two major injuries ago. He was good last year because Clowney was there. At his age it is going to be hard for him to dominate against double teams. Last night is not definitive but is informative (0 sacks, 0 tackles).

What I hate is when a team is inconsistent with what they are trying to do with the moves they make. Trading significant draft capital for Tunsil and Stills is a win now move, and makes sense with where Watt, Joseph, Hopkins are in their careers. Letting Clowney go is a build for later move. When are the Texans trying to win, now or later?

 
dhockster said:
Except losing Clowney not only weakens his position, it may significantly weaken JJ Watt because the other team doesn't have to worry about Clowney and can double and triple team Watt. Watt has been successful without Clowney but that was 5 years and two major injuries ago. He was good last year because Clowney was there. At his age it is going to be hard for him to dominate against double teams. Last night is not definitive but is informative (0 sacks, 0 tackles).

What I hate is when a team is inconsistent with what they are trying to do with the moves they make. Trading significant draft capital for Tunsil and Stills is a win now move, and makes sense with where Watt, Joseph, Hopkins are in their careers. Letting Clowney go is a build for later move. When are the Texans trying to win, now or later?
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Using the Eagles (since I know them so well) for example, they always use DE-by-committee.  It lessens the impact of injury, keeps the players fresh for the long haul and allows you to use your cap space for other areas.  Sure the Texans are weaker for this season, it would have made more sense to have him play on the tag and just let him walk.  But long-term, it's the smart play.

 
I enjoyed the first half and was pleasantly surprised by the defense in the first 30 minutes. Impressed with Hyde as a bruiser back.  Really hope him and Fuller can manage to stay healthy for the year.  I know that's a big if.  Fuller definitely stretches out defenses and enables the run.   Unfortunately, I think the second half defense is what we'll see more often as it took a bit for Brees and the offense to shake off the rust.   Tough loss but I had a feeling they would blow that half time lead.  Good coaches make adjustments and BOB is not a good coach.  Still not sure what him and Romeo were thinking on that last drive.  Watson is his only savior.  

Something else concerning.  Not one of our 2019 draft picks had any contribution on offense or defense. Maybe its a good thing we got rid of those picks to Miami  :kicksrock:  

 
So Watson has started 23 games for the Texans and has a 14-9 record. 4 of those losses were on the road against: New England and Brady (Super Bowl MVP), Seattle and Wilson (Super Bowl winning QB), Philadelphia and Foles (Super Bowl MVP), and New Orleans and Brees (Super Bowl MVP). All of those places are tough places to play and obviously those teams had quality QB's. In each of those games Watson came off the field late in the 4th quarter with a lead. In each game, Crennel's defense failed. In the 2 games in 2017, O'Brien went conservative and ran the ball with Lamar Miller 3 straight times when the Texans could have gotten more points to put those games away. Watson could be 18-5 in his first 23 starts. I just point this out to highlight how bad I think O'Brien and Crennel are.

 
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dhockster said:
So Watson has started 23 games for the Texans and has a 14-9 record. 4 of those losses were on the road against: New England and Brady (Super Bowl MVP), Seattle and Wilson (Super Bowl winning QB), Philadelphia and Foles (Super Bowl MVP), and New Orleans and Brees (Super Bowl MVP). All of those places are tough places to play and obviously those teams had quality QB's. In each of those games Watson came off the field late in the 4th quarter with a lead. In each game, Crennel's defense failed. In the 2 games in 2017, O'Brien went conservative and ran the ball with Lamar Miller 3 straight times when the Texans could have gotten more points to put those games away. Watson could be 18-5 in his first 23 starts. I just point this out to highlight how bad I think O'Brien and Crennel are.
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My favorite of those 2 in 2017 being Watson's second ever career start, in Foxboro, and BOB decides to kick a chip-shot FG to go up by 5 and give the ball back to Brady with 2 minutes and change left on the clock. Predictably they give up the TD with 20 seconds left. Would have been epic to see Watson win that game.

 
Buckna said:
My favorite of those 2 in 2017 being Watson's second ever career start, in Foxboro, and BOB decides to kick a chip-shot FG to go up by 5 and give the ball back to Brady with 2 minutes and change left on the clock. Predictably they give up the TD with 20 seconds left. Would have been epic to see Watson win that game.
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Yes, that was the worst. Up by 2 with under 3 minutes left and O'Brien calls 3 straight hand-offs to Lamar Miller and settles for the FG. 4 games later with 2 minutes left and up by 4 on his own 20 against Seattle, again he calls 3 straight hand-offs to Lamar Miller and punts giving Russell Wilson plenty of time to score the go ahead TD.

 
dhockster said:
Yes, that was the worst. Up by 2 with under 3 minutes left and O'Brien calls 3 straight hand-offs to Lamar Miller and settles for the FG. 4 games later with 2 minutes left and up by 4 on his own 20 against Seattle, again he calls 3 straight hand-offs to Lamar Miller and punts giving Russell Wilson plenty of time to score the go ahead TD.
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Oof. BOB. If true, that's deplorable. The game, at this point, should always be in 4's hands. 

 
Timeouts and Draft Picks??  who needs em?  Tough to watch a franchise mortgage their future for such mediocrity.  Hopefully ownership will take a look into Minute Maid Park on how to run an organization.  

 
Weird to think they should be 3-1 or even 4-0 with competent coaching. Watson is getting the dog#### beat out of him so probably only a matter of time before he ends up on IR and the season is officially down the drain. Tunesil has at least played well but 1 guy out of 5 can't block everything. And we all know we won't feel the impact of this mortgaging of the future for Tunesil until a few years from now, not this season.

3 forced fumbles from strip sacks and all you come away with is 7 points, awful. At least Mercilus has woken up with Clowney's spot vacated.

 
Okay, so in 2017 the Texans were 2nd worst in the league in sack percentage on offense. Last year they were the worst in sack percentage on offense. This year they are 2nd worst in sack percentage on offense through 4 games. They obviously made a big overhaul in their offensive line this year, and in theory, the line should get better as they play together. 

But my concern is that the overall scheme/coaching of the offensive line is so poor that the additional talent they added this year will not be able to overcome the bad scheme/coaching. O'Brien/Devlin seem to have no clue as to how to run an offense that protects the QB. And no clue how to coach a QB to not take as many sacks.

But the good news is that the Texans spent 3 firsts and 2 seconds to overhaul their oline. Draft picks well spent!

 
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dhockster said:
Okay, so in 2017 the Texans were 2nd worst in the league in sack percentage on offense. Last year they were the worst in sack percentage on offense. This year they are 2nd worst in sack percentage on offense through 4 games. They obviously made a big overhaul in their offensive line this year, and in theory, the line should get better as they play together. 

But my concern is that the overall scheme/coaching of the offensive line is so poor that the additional talent they added this year will not be able to overcome. O'Brien/Devlin seem to have no clue as to how to run an offense that protects the QB. And no clue how to coach a QB to not take as many sacks.

But the good news is that the Texans spent 3 firsts and 2 seconds to overhaul their oline. Draft picks well spent!
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And Tunsil has helped the Texans improve from worst in sack percentage to 2nd worst in sack percentage. The Dolphins without him this year have improved from 3rd worst in sack percentage to 4th worst in sack percentage. The trade was a win/win!

 
I feel like the biggest problem is that the Texans cannot handle the blitz. I don't know where the problem lies in what amounts. Watson is calling the protection. Is he not seeing the blitz? Is he calling the wrong protection then? Is the line not picking them up? Is the receiver not adjusting to give him an outlet? Is he not using the outlet?  Some of each but in what amounts?

It has felt to me like Watson just expects the blitzes to be picked up the vast majority of the time.  Very few times do you see a receiver run a route in behind the blitzer into the space created by his departure which is where you can look to exploit them blitzing. Instead Watson just drops back and surveys the field and the extra pressure gets to him too frequently. I was talking about this at the game with the guy beside me. I brought it up before the game and then kept pointing out how they made no adjustment to take advantage of the blitz most of the time. There was one  play he did hit a receiver right behind the blitzing player that I pointed to as what I'd expected we should see a lot more of. Granted sometimes you try to pick up the blitz, and sometimes you give up that advantage but then you have to adjust and hit that quick on.  But if we're not picking up the blitz right, is it the execution or the protection he called or just holding it too long?

Some of it is definitely Watson holding the ball too long. Though beyond that I don't know how much of it is the other issues.

Anyway, if I'm the DC I'm going to blitz the hell out of us. We might get a long one from time to time, but most of the time we end up far enough behind on down and distance it kills the drive. I'll take the gamble they miss the long throw.

 
GregR said:
I feel like the biggest problem is that the Texans cannot handle the blitz. I don't know where the problem lies in what amounts. Watson is calling the protection. Is he not seeing the blitz? Is he calling the wrong protection then? Is the line not picking them up? Is the receiver not adjusting to give him an outlet? Is he not using the outlet?  Some of each but in what amounts?

It has felt to me like Watson just expects the blitzes to be picked up the vast majority of the time.  Very few times do you see a receiver run a route in behind the blitzer into the space created by his departure which is where you can look to exploit them blitzing. Instead Watson just drops back and surveys the field and the extra pressure gets to him too frequently. I was talking about this at the game with the guy beside me. I brought it up before the game and then kept pointing out how they made no adjustment to take advantage of the blitz most of the time. There was one  play he did hit a receiver right behind the blitzing player that I pointed to as what I'd expected we should see a lot more of. Granted sometimes you try to pick up the blitz, and sometimes you give up that advantage but then you have to adjust and hit that quick on.  But if we're not picking up the blitz right, is it the execution or the protection he called or just holding it too long?

Some of it is definitely Watson holding the ball too long. Though beyond that I don't know how much of it is the other issues.

Anyway, if I'm the DC I'm going to blitz the hell out of us. We might get a long one from time to time, but most of the time we end up far enough behind on down and distance it kills the drive. I'll take the gamble they miss the long throw.
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I think you bring up a good point about the blitz. Since all I have ever heard is how complicated O'Brien's offense is and depends on everyone reading the defense and making the right read, I would think most of the problems with a blitz is different players are not all on the same page and therefore do not all do what they are supposed to do. This leads to breakdowns in protections, the right routes being run, the QB making the right read. But then again, since I am not in football, what do I know, right Bill?

 
Not afraid to rip on O'brien when he deserves it, so will give him credit on this one. The play calling down the stretch was pretty good. Didn't get conservative, but they still ran time off the clock and kept the chains moving, etc.

 
GregR said:
Not afraid to rip on O'brien when he deserves it, so will give him credit on this one. The play calling down the stretch was pretty good. Didn't get conservative, but they still ran time off the clock and kept the chains moving, etc.
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There have been rumors that Tim Kelly may have been calling the plays. If true, that is the most positive sign of the O'Brien era, that he doesn't feel the need to be in control of everything (and therefore be less effective at everything).

 
GregR said:
Not afraid to rip on O'brien when he deserves it, so will give him credit on this one. The play calling down the stretch was pretty good. Didn't get conservative, but they still ran time off the clock and kept the chains moving, etc.
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No doubt but it was against ATL.  This week will be the test.  I really want to see them defeat a contender.  The Colts did it.  I can't remember the last time it happened under O'Brien.  

 
While the Texans' offensive line did play better, Watson also helped by getting the ball out quicker. Against the Falcons, Watson’s average time to throw was just 2.43 seconds, nearly a half-second faster than he averaged in the first four games. According to ESPN Stats & Information research, the 2.92 seconds he averaged through Week 4 was the fourth-longest average in the NFL.

This season, Watson is completing an NFL-high 87% of his passes when throwing the ball within 2.5 seconds; his completion percentage goes down to 51% when taking more than 2.5 seconds to throw, per NFL Next Gen Stats. Watson said the game plan about how quickly he wants to get rid of the ball varies week to week, and “it just depends on how the defense is playing that week and how we want to play on offense.”
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Nice win.  Bob finally showed some stones.  I really thought he was going to let Fairbairn blow it to ice the game.  On that note, I'll be very disappointed if Fairbairn still has a job next week.  

 
hispeedthinmint said:
What is Watson's value in dynasty value w/5 pt per pass TD in a start 1 QB PPR league? I am disappointed with Goff so looking to replace or add another QB. I was offered his Watson & Hopkins for my Diggs, Ingram & McLaurin. I think he is asking too much in a start 1 QB league. I have WR depth to spare, but still not gonna overpay. I really need to fix my hole at TE.
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How many threads are you going to post this question in? I've seen it in 3 so far. Hit the brakes.

 
Right tackle Tytus Howard was carted off the field with a knee injury in the third quarter. Entering the game, Howard had the third-best Pass Block Win Rate among OTs, according to ESPN metrics
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The initial prognosis is encouraging for Howard with no torn anterior cruciate ligament diagnosed and further tests to be conducted Monday, according to league sources not authorized to speak publicly.

"It may have looked worse than it really was," Texans coach Bill O'Brien said. "Hopefully, we can get him back at some point."
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Whew, hopefully dodged a bullet on Howard. Line has played much better after swapping Howard to RT and Scharping to LG. Not sure what clicked overnight but Watson is getting the ball out faster too.  Hopkins as that 3rd down relief valve really worked today, still left a lot of points on the board though.

True test for the division lead comes next week. Any word on Roby?

 
I have bashed on the oline so I will give them credit now. No sacks in the last two games and the running game is doing well.

 
Top 10 OT Pass Block Win Rate

1. Mike McGlinchey, 49ers, 96%
2. Trent Brown, Raiders, 95%
3. Tytus Howard, Texans, 96%
4. David Bakhtiari, Packers, 94%
5. Brian O'Neill, Vikings, 93%
6. Dion Dawkins, Bills, 93%
7. La'el Collins, Cowboys, 93%
8. Tyron Smith, Cowboys, 92%
9. Ronnie Stanley, Ravens, 92%
10. Ty Nsekhe, Bills, 92%

Top 10 OG Pass Block Win Rate

1. Joe Thuney, Patriots, 97%
2. Elgton Jenkins, Packers, 97%
3. Marshal Yanda, Ravens, 96%
4. Quenton Nelson, Colts, 96%
5. J.R. Sweezy, Cardinals, 96%
6. Joel Bitonio, Browns, 95%
7. Zach Fulton, Texans, 95%
8. Ali Marpet, Buccaneers, 94%
9. David DeCastro, Steelers, 94%
10. Brandon Brooks, Eagles, 94%

Top 10 team Pass Block Win Rate

1. Indianapolis Colts, 66%
2. Green Bay Packers, 66%
3. Baltimore Ravens, 64%
4. Buffalo Bills, 64%
5. Oakland Raiders, 63%
6. Tennessee Titans, 62%
7. Dallas Cowboys, 61%
8. Pittsburgh Steelers, 61%
9. Houston Texans, 61%
10. Jacksonville Jaguars, 61%
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Haven’t seen injury updates yet for Roby, Joseph or Gipson. Gaines to IR. Must be bad because our 3rd rounder we got for Clowney was traded to the Raiders for Conley who has sucked royally this year. Maybe a change of scenery will help him but seems  :yucky:  How did I miss BOB outright cut Colvin after week 1 when he got abused by Brees? Another great FA signing.

The Refs jobbed us against the Colts and we were starting street FA corners in the secondary, after all the injuries but even with the game still winnable BOB blows a timeout to take an intentional safety in the hopes for a defensive stop and better field position.  :crazy:

amazing we are still in playoff contention

 
Conley struggled elsewhere during the Packers game and hasn't been good in 2019. As the closest defender in coverage, the NFL's Next Gen Stats suggest the Ohio State product has allowed opposing quarterbacks to go 21-of-29 for 389 yards with five touchdowns against a lone pick this season. That's a 139.7 passer rating. The only cornerback who has been targeted at least 20 times who has given up more yards per attempt than Conley's 13.4 yards per throw is the Chargers' Desmond King.
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Texans defensive end J.J. Watt confirmed on social media that he is done for the year after he was injured in Sunday's 27-24 win over the Oakland Raiders.

The Texans fear that Watt tore his pectoral muscle, sources confirmed to ESPN's Dianna Russini. Watt also referenced his pec in another tweet after Sunday's game.
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Although Texans left offensive tackle Laremy Tunsil injured his shoulder Sunday against the Raiders and didn’t return, the injury isn't regarded as serious enough to keep him out this coming Sunday in a London game against the Jacksonville Jaguars
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Meanwhile, O'Brien said that veteran corner Johnathan Joseph is trending in the right direction to return for the Jaguars game. Joseph was held out of Sunday's win over Oakland due to neck and hamstring injuries.

O'Brien sounded iffy on the chances of safety Tashaun Gipson playing this week after missing Sunday with back, hip and wrist injuries.

Rookie cornerback Lonnie Johnson is a question mark due to a concussion sustained Sunday.

The Texans aren't expected to get back cornerback Bradley Roby (Grade 2 hamstring strain), offensive tackle Tytus Howard (partially torn medial collateral ligament) and wide receiver Will Fuller (strained hamstring) back until November with the hope that the bye week after the Jaguars game allows them to heal up.
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