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CJ Prosise - RB - Notre Dame (1 Viewer)

Eminence

Footballguy
I'm doing my rookie rankings and I came across this cat who I didn't know much about.

At 6 foot and 220 lbs, the way this guy runs is incredible.  His patience behind his blocking is phenomenal and he knows exactly when to shift into 3rd gear.

He's got an excellent skillset of a spin move, jump cut, and stiff arm.  After all that, the defense still has to take 220 lbs of running back down.

He's a former receiver and has a few bomb catches on film.  The big knock on him is that he hasn't been playing the position very long but he looks phenomenal.

May not play right away due to lack of pass blocking experience.  But that just means you can get his amazing running skills at a big discount.  Dynasty stash.



 
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Like him a lot. Seems like a great natural runner to me. I'm really not a fan of anyone else behind Elliot so he might be my rb2. I'm interested to see if he shoots of draft boards ahead of guys like Perkins, Collins and Dixon.

 
This is a player someone suggested for the rookie polls that I did not know much about yet. Been busy but I finally got around to watching two of his games.

Here is the draftbreakdown link to his games.

I watched him against UMass and Clemson. These games are like night and day as far as the level of defensive competition goes. Anyhow my notes:

UMass – not a good defense. Many missed tackles in this game and several of them I could not give a lot of credit to Proise for, the defenders just suck at tackling.

Proise does have a decent spin move that enabled him to get out of the pile, he does drive with his legs in traffic and he has enough speed to get to the edge if the safeties take poor angles in their pursuit. He looks a bit stiff and hesitant as runner at times to me.

He drops the ball on a jet sweep for no reason. Maybe he saw a ghost or something? There was no contact and he already had the ball secured, he just spazzes out for some reason and drops the ball. Watching in slow motion I can see the ball isn’t quite secure, still resting on the outside of his arm a bit, so he is trying to shift it into the crook of his elbow but it pops loose when he tries to adjust the balls position in his arm.

Does a decent job squaring up in pass protection in one example. The Irish were down at one point and throwing a lot. He would check for blitz and then get out in a pattern if no blitz came (usually didn’t( I did not see him targeted on an passes.

He gets some really good blocking at times, especially on the left side. The clip emphasizes the main good runs at the 5:28 mark where you see the spin move I was talking about from the backside of the play. Two defenders run into each other here and I don’t think the spin move was even necessary when the defense is blocking itself. The run to the outside on the left he shows good vision to cut outside but the blocking gives him a lot of choices.

Overall considering the competition I wasn’t too impressed with this game.

Clemson – Hoping for a better defense than UMass to give a more fair evaluation. The game starts off with the staple inside zone runs but Clemson is pushing the offensive line into the backfield and Prioise has no where to go. On their second drive ND is trying to throw a bit more, he does get a couple runs but gains nothing on them. The defense is forcing ND to throw the ball. I saw him help the RT on a double team as another example of decent pass protection.

The announcer says he has -5 yards on his first six carries. His next couple carries are not much better. He catches a screen pass but it gets snuffed out right away. Seeing some more examples of him helping the RT in pass protection.

He loses 7 yards later on in the game. The only thing really working for the ND offense is their QB running. The QB is not good. Does not see wide open WR and cannot hit the out route accurately. Throwing high and off target for the most part.

Proise does get a decent run to the left side but then fumbles the ball from a hard tackle.

He gets open on an out route to the left flat as the defender lost a step showing blitz. Makes a nice catch still brought down shortly after though.

He is still running hard and they catch Clemson in a pass defense for a change he has some room on the right side for a nice run.

He has a big catch on the right side where the route concepts cleared it for him and the defender kept his eyes in the backfield too long. There was a review of the play so they show it a few more times checking to see if he was out of bounds, he wasn’t, he does a nice job tip toeing near the sideline. The defense blew the coverage on this but good play to execute.

He has another fumble but ND recover this time. The WR and QB both fumble after this as well. He makes a nice catch on the left sideline and ND ends up scoring for the game to be 22 to 24 but they failed on the conversion.

I thought Prioise looked decent as a receiver, he catches the ball fine. He has issues with holding on to the ball. 2 fumbles in this game. He runs hard, I just don’t see any elusiveness or ability to create on his own against a superior defense. He needs blocking.

 
For the game against USC – ND runs power to the left and their pulling linemen connect against what looks like a 6 man box. The LB gets caught inside too much and Proise cuts it to the outside beating 56 to the sideline for a nice run.

2nd 1 the play is an inside zone right where he gets a few yards for the 1st down. The defense is yelling out run, so they may have been in a pass coverage on short yardage? I went back and yes they are playing a 3-3 nickle.

They run the power to the right again, one of the pulling guards never gets out there but his guy takes himself out of the play anyways. With the TE and outside WR both getting blocks on the outside he is able to run through the designed lane and with help from a block from the downfield WR as well scores a TD. I saw them run this exact same play against Clemson however the LB blew the play up at the sideline instead of getting blocked. The slot WR blocks the corner on him initially then peels off to block the safety, the TE picks up the corner he let go. Good vision speed and timing on Priose’s part executing the play that went no where against a better defense.

Catches a pass in the left flat that he is able to extend for a 1st down. He gets a key block from the WR who came in motion to the left before the snap who seals the defender to the inside giving him the ability to get outside the block. He kind of body catches this but I have not seen him drop any passes so far in 3 games. Some of the catches were semi difficult and he had to catch the ball over his head on one. So he can catch the ball a few different ways. A few of his runs are like jet sweeps where he will line up as a slot receiver initially. Later in this game he lines up as the slot right and runs and out route, the ball is a bit low and behind him and he drops it trying to gather the ball back to his body as the defender is getting there.

I see 3 instances of him checking for pass rushers before releasing out in routes. The first one no one came so he released to the left flat. The second one he helps chip a defender who falls down before he releases again to the left flat. On the third one there is a defender coming free on the right side but he identifies him and squares the defender up near the LOS with a good block.

He gets stuffed on a couple runs where defenders are beating the blocking. There is a pass attempt where the QB throws too high for him to make the catch. See that a lot. He gets stuffed on another run. I see him seek out a pass rusher blocking him beyond the LOS as he is being very aggressive in pass protection. The QB decides to try to beat his man on a run but he fails to shake him.

He runs hard at times gaining extra yardage after contact. USC seems to have figured out how to defend the run for the most part since being gashed early on in the game though.

He has another TD run from short yardage where he uses the spin move to elude the safety in the hole and change direction back to the left where he then finds a blocker to run behind. This is a nice move and he has good balance and sense of direction after the 360, but in such a high traffic area I can see that failing more often than not. The LB took himself out of the play and could have tackled him from behind if he didn’t suck.

The defense seems kind of defeated at this point. Great blocking again on the left side leaving him a small hole that he exploits for a nice gain.

Another big run off the power to the left. The hole keeps opening between the center and left guard and while I thought USC may have solved this, looks like I was wrong. He has a nice run here but the blocking is a hat on a hat and all he has to do is navigate.

He gets stuffed a couple times but ND scores on a nice catch in the corner. On his next run he tries the spin move again to get to the outside but the defense stops him this time.

He checks then goes out to the left flat where the QB finds him for a good gain.

This was the best of the 3 games I have watched of him so far. He was more involved as a receiver in this game and generally did a good job there. He also has shown some good ability as a blocker. I still don’t see him creating on his own. The spin move seems like his go to thing to try to avoid tackles. He didn’t fumble in this game and the one target he dropped was a poor throw by the QB.

 
Yeah I hope this guy does not become a relevant player because I cannot spell that messed up name to save my life.

 
Looked smooth during the combine, need to watch a little more of him though before I decide where I want to put him.  So far so good though.  

 
His speed and explosiveness shows up when you watch him play. He's got a really nice burst. Good size too. Looks good catching the ball. In a weak RB class, those traits might be enough to rank him top 5 at the position. Don't see a whole lot of wiggle or ability to make guys miss in the hole though. Just seems a little bit straight-line-ish.  

 
I've always hated ND with the white hot intensity of a thousand suns, but the times I've watched this kid I've always come away impressed. His combo of size and speed is enticing.

 
Not sure how badly I want a running back who hopes to be as good as Theo riddick.
I expect Abdullah to be the primary back that they will use but also think there is a good chance Abdullah misses time with injury and if so, Riddick will get a good amount of snaps and make use of them to be fantasy worthwhile. PPR leagues, he gets a decent boost too.

 
I'd say you'd want Prosise's high end NFL comp to be Matt Forte. However, here's a highlight reel of Forte in college. Notice the burst that Forte has out of his breaks and the suddenness of his cuts. NFL.com has Fred Jackson as the comp but Fred has noticeably more power/strength and also took a while to develop. If Prosise has a similar career path he might worth letting someone else draft and trading for in a couple years.

 
Thanks for the Forte clip Borden. 

With Forte what you see is he always uses a head fake to misdirect would be tacklers and he has the body lean, the shiftyness to cut off of his head fakes and make a little space for himself. 

CJ Prosise does not do this. It is a subtle difference, but what you see Forte doing with his runs is a lot of what I am looking for in a RB. Forte reminds me a lot of Neal Anderson. 

 
Rewind to last year when the David Johnson hype was just beginning to boil.

I feel the same way about Prosise. Really hoping he lands somewhere that can utilize him to his fullest. Would love to see him fall to NE in the third.

Unlike DJ he isn't an amazing blocker, but that could be tied to his limited experience.

 
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Rewind to last year when the David Johnson hype was just beginning to boil.

I feel the same way about Prosise. Really hoping he lands somewhere that can utilize him to his fullest. Would love to see him fall to NE in the third.

Unlike DJ he isn't an amazing blocker, but that could be tied to his limited experience.
I feel like I was completely unaware of David Johnson at this time last year. The Footballers were pretty high on him in preseason but that's it. That's me and I swing in and out of the FF loop at times. Or I could just be old and have a bad memory. 

 
Perhaps the hype was simmering. Idk, I was very excited about DJ this time last year.
Either way, I can understand the comparison. I think that outside the 40s DJ preformed better at the combine. *Based only on a quick glance of the rankings* It the NFL.com write up for DJ there seems to be same concerns about his burst as I have with Prosise. 

I don't have time at the moment to watch DJs draft break downs then check him out on game pass to see if improved or just applied his existing talents but with Prosise I feel like he has a lot to learn at the RB position. To me Prosise looks like a WR when he has the ball. I would have to look at his earliest game vs his most recent game to see how much or if any improvements were learnt over the course of the season. He just makes too many "open field" moves in tight spaces and in the NFL things are going to get tighter. 

I'm not trying to kill your excitement but I would caution you about getting too fired up on him quite yet. Maybe go back and watch some DBs of him. If you already have then I'd love to hear your thoughts. I was really down on him right off the hop but warmed up a bit after I watched everything. I'm still not excited but I'm not down on him like I was. The other thing is that if we are looking at potential then we might have to expect maybe a Jerick McKinnion type of career arch. Where it takes 3 or so years to develop. McKinnon is likely in a different situation where he's stuck behind a HoF player but I think you get my general idea. 

 
Lots of smart analysis in here and you guys are right. He is extremely raw as a runner, he's only played RB for a full year.

...and of course Matt Forte was a better prospect with more moves. Forte was playing RB in high school and multiple years of College!

 
Either way, I can understand the comparison. I think that outside the 40s DJ preformed better at the combine. *Based only on a quick glance of the rankings* It the NFL.com write up for DJ there seems to be same concerns about his burst as I have with Prosise. 

I don't have time at the moment to watch DJs draft break downs then check him out on game pass to see if improved or just applied his existing talents but with Prosise I feel like he has a lot to learn at the RB position. To me Prosise looks like a WR when he has the ball. I would have to look at his earliest game vs his most recent game to see how much or if any improvements were learnt over the course of the season. He just makes too many "open field" moves in tight spaces and in the NFL things are going to get tighter. 

I'm not trying to kill your excitement but I would caution you about getting too fired up on him quite yet. Maybe go back and watch some DBs of him. If you already have then I'd love to hear your thoughts. I was really down on him right off the hop but warmed up a bit after I watched everything. I'm still not excited but I'm not down on him like I was. The other thing is that if we are looking at potential then we might have to expect maybe a Jerick McKinnion type of career arch. Where it takes 3 or so years to develop. McKinnon is likely in a different situation where he's stuck behind a HoF player but I think you get my general idea. 
With Johnson you can just read the first page of his thread started on 25 Feb last year for some impressions of him following the Senior Bowl and combine.

As I mention from the 3 draft breakdown clips linked in the first post, that he does not run well between the tackles, particularly in the game against Iowa. Fresh Prince points out that Iowa is a bigger school than Norther Iowa that Johnson played for, so the defense is overmatching the offensive line in this game and Johnson has little to work with.

His abilities as a receiver on the other hand were outstanding. So despite his size and speed combination, he looks better in ope space than he did running with power. Greg Cosell comments about this as well from watching his games. There were some signs of that issue from preseason as well. I do think there was a learning curve for him and that he wasn't starting early on because they were still training him and getting him ready.

He played outstanding once he earned the coaches trust. Better than I expected or saw of him as a runner from college and preseason. He developed over the year.

The comparison I had for David Johnson was Terrance West who was also a small school guy, pretty big for a RB with some decent speed, not nearly as good as a receiver as Johnson however. West has this tendency to try to string plays out laterally that I didn't see Johnson doing, but as far as them both being small school guys and drafted in a similar area, I thought that was a reasonable comparison of his chances.

I think he played a lot better towards the end of the season than I had seen from him early on or in College.

I don't see much similarity between Johnson and Prosise however.

 
One NFL scout compared Notre RB C.J. Prosise to former Eagles RB Duce Staley.
"He's just going to keep getting better," the scout began before making the comparison. Another scout called Prosise "his guy." We are definitely here for the Prosise praise. The former receiver can definitely be successful in space, but showed prowess between the tackles this year. Josh Norris ranks Prosise as his No. 4 RB and the No. 60 overall prospect.

 
 
Source: NJ.com
Mar 24 - 11:33 AM

 
NFL Media senior analyst Gil Brandt relayed that Notre Dame RB C.J. Prosise "is not a natural catcher of the football, but caught the ball well at [Thursday's Pro Day]."
Prosise sat on most of his Combine numbers -- including a 4.48-second run through the 40-yard dash, a 35 1/2-inch vertical jump and a 121-inch broad jump -- but did perform both the short shuttle (4.48 seconds) and three-cone drill (7.32 seconds) during Thursday's Pro Day. NFL Media's Mike Mayock speculated in February that the Notre Dame speedster would serve as a nice back to pair with Ameer Abdullah in Detroit. Mayock tabbed him as "probably a fourth-round guy."

 
 
Source: NFL.com 
Apr 2 - 6:25 PM

 
I like Prosise a lot. But...my worry is that he does not "love football" as they say. He does not have a RB's upper body IMO. For a big guy he should be more muscular. He did not lift at the combine. The lack of strength could explain the fumble issue. I'm concerned he is a smart guy who is taking advantage of some special talent, but is not all in. 

 
Rotoworld's Josh Norris ranks Notre RB C.J. Prosise as the No. 60 overall prospect in the NFL Draft.
"At his foundation, Prosise is a receiving back who is comfortable in space and a mismatch against linebackers," he wrote. "In 2015, Prosise showed natural running ability and awareness between the tackles. His acceleration and lateral agility allow him to maximize alleys and avoid linebackers’ angles." The Irish product is Norris' No. 4 RB. Prosise was recently compared to former Eagles RB Duce Staley by an anonymous NFL scout speaking with NJ.com.

 
I think he could draw some David Johnson comparisons. He has a similar body type and game. I usually prefer shorter and more compact backs if given the choice, but Prosise has some agility and burst for his height. This is probably the worst draft class I've seen in a while, but he at least looks like an interesting consideration in the 5-15 range of rookie drafts. We'll see where he ends up going later this month. That could be telling.

 
I thought he looked very similar to Lamar Miller. Prototypical size, but not a physical runner. Serious speed and acceleration. Will def shine in a zone blocking scheme - have to remember he only have been a RB for 9 or so games. 

 
I mentioned above I felt similarly about him as I did DJ. I feel like neither of them wows you with speed or power, but they deceptively have plenty of both. I think its partly to do with their frames, bigger backs, looking like they are slower.

Biggest knock against him is that hes raw. I think hes got as much upside as any RB in this class not named Elliot, can be an elite pass catcher, but I think hes more than that, can definitely be a three down back.

 
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I mentioned above I felt similarly about him as I did DJ. I feel like neither of them wows you with speed or power, but they deceptively have plenty of both. I think its partly to do with their frames, bigger backs, looking like they are slower.

Biggest knock against him is that hes raw. I think hes got as much upside as any RB in this class not named Elliot, can be an elite pass catcher, but I think hes more than that, can definitely be a three down back.
The a couple knocks against him I have are that he seems to think to much/take too much time to make decisions. I'm also still not sure if his burst is that strong so maybe these two issues (burst and decision time) play into each other and makes it appear as a bigger issue than it will be once being an RB becomes second nature to him. 

One other thing that I don't want to want to knock him for is his "open" field moves. It good because he's gotten into space but the moves he's trying are for WRs 20+ yards down the sideline. Not 11 yards down the center of the field. Too much traffic. 

I'm not sure how big these issues are. On one hand they're mostly learnt abilities. Which means he can fix/improve them. On the other hand, he will have to unlearn the "bad" habits of a WR while burning RB functions into his mind. 

Are you seeing the same thing? If so, how much do you think he can improve?

 
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I see some of those. I don't think burst is a problem of his, but he does struggle with decision making sometimes, or at least he appears to, you can see it pretty heavily in Waldman's RSP Filmroom episode on him, which if you guys are remotely interested in I would check out. Its heavily critical so all I would say is don't dismiss your own opinions outright.

The decision making I attribute to inexperience. As expected of any back he has shown flashes of both good and poor decision making. While he was a safety convert to receiver and then running back, I think its important to recognize he knows what to do with the ball in his hands past the line of scrimmage. Its the line where his decision making comes into question.

 
I see some of those. I don't think burst is a problem of his, but he does struggle with decision making sometimes, or at least he appears to, you can see it pretty heavily in Waldman's RSP Filmroom episode on him, which if you guys are remotely interested in I would check out. Its heavily critical so all I would say is don't dismiss your own opinions outright.

The decision making I attribute to inexperience. As expected of any back he has shown flashes of both good and poor decision making. While he was a safety convert to receiver and then running back, I think its important to recognize he knows what to do with the ball in his hands past the line of scrimmage. Its the line where his decision making comes into question.
Probably not going to check out the Waldman thing just because I'm not in a spot where I can listen to the audio. But if I remember I will. 

Do you know why he's been moved to 3 different positions? Was there just too much talent at those spots on his team but he was too good of a player not to get on the field? Or is he lacking in (I'm guessing) the mental aspect/responsibilies of those positions? I just say I'm guessing at that because I don't remember reading anything about him wanted to switch or character concerns or any other reason to switch.

I'm doing my best not to come across as being critical. Or like I'm just trying to trash a player because I wasn't high on him. Genuinely interested. I don't want to just filter sand, I want to find gold. 

 
Are you guys starting to see it?
Yep, upright runner that leaves his ribs and thighs open to defenders.

No one points it out because he's under the radar, so everyone loves everything.  Too bad people weren't high on him in September, we could all be talking about how overrated he is by now.  

 
Yep, upright runner that leaves his ribs and thighs open to defenders.

No one points it out because he's under the radar, so everyone loves everything.  Too bad people weren't high on him in September, we could all be talking about how overrated he is by now.  
you think he'll get blow up in the NFL? 

 
you think he'll get blow up in the NFL? 
I think any back that runs upright, it's an issue.  McFadden, Demarco, Latavius.

The bigger point is that people don't really pick apart mid-late round picks.  They just fall in love with them.  You'll find more negative posts about Derrick Henry an this guy.  Why is that?  Because People have been talking about Henry all season, so they look for negatives.

This guy is a former WR, moved to RB.  He has a high center of gravity, that's a legit issue.  

 
I think any back that runs upright, it's an issue.  McFadden, Demarco, Latavius.
David Johnson was also knocked for running too upright.

Was a WR convert to RB also - can't remember if it was his freshman or sophomore year tho, he played WR in high school tho for sure.

Virtually the same size.

I get the concern but I think honestly if you watch him he has bigger concerns than the degree at which he runs. Serious concerns about whether he can be a gap runner, or if he can only handle zone running. Decision making, so on.

He's a smooth runner and a capable ball carrier.

 
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Ugh - really like this guy, but also a Rawls owner. From a "real" football perspective though, that'll be an exciting young backfield.

 
Just watched his game vs Clemson to contrast with Henry, whose game against Clemson I also watched.  And I saw no wiggle or vision, just an upright speedster, and he looked far worse than Henry.  

 

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