QB Dak Prescott, DAL (1 Viewer)

matuski said:

Now we are getting to a reasonable place... you want to rank Dak ahead of Jimmy G?  Cool.. That is a good place for him in the rankings.

Like Jimmy G, Dak isn't even the focal point of his own offense.

Dak will never be one of the better passers in the league.  He can become one of the best QBs in the league... but he simply doesn't have the arm talent of Mahomes and company, or the command/precision/anticipation of a Rodgers etc, to be in that place as a passer.  This isn't an insult, Lamar jackson will also never be a great passer - obviously won't prevent him from being a great QB.

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Football Jones said:

I'm all for a reasonable debate, but I just can't do the nonsense.

As soon as you stated Jimmy was better than Dak, I knew this was no longer a legit debate.

Not much else to say, my friend.

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matuski said:

I never stated any such thing?

My goodness people are whiffing this evening.

I think the poster you are trying to attack here is Ghost Rider.

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STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:

Way to avoid the question but I’ll play along. Dak’s shoulder was wrecked and The clapper thought it would be wise to have him throw the ball 44 times and only let Zeke carry the ball 15 times. To top that off, we ran the most vanilla defense in the league because in the words of Red Jesus, “We do what we do”. 
 

I mean I guess they at least thought Dak was a competent enough passer to throw more than single digit attempts in most games so that’s a positive. 
 

So now that we’ve established that Dak didn’t crap his pants please defend your boy for crapping his. 

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matuski said:

I never stated any such thing?

My goodness people are whiffing this evening.

I think the poster you are trying to attack here is Ghost Rider.

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Football Jones said:

Again, I apologize. I went back & looked & I mixed up comments from you & GR.

You said Dak is a middling passer. Do you honestly believe that? Like he's around the 16th/17th best passer in the league? LOL.

I mean, let's face it...we aren't going to get anywhere here, but again, what does Dak have to do? Not make a few bad passes a game? That's a really odd criticism considering what he accomplished last season.

You're just not willing to give Dak the credit he deserves. I know it's tough to do as a rival. You really have to put the fan part of you aside to do it. I learned that art long ago & it's really helpful.

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matuski said:

It is the distinction between passer and QB.

Dak is a MUCH better QB than passer.  He isn't reading defenses and dissecting the play, threading tight windows, throwing WRs open (like the better QBs).  He is hitting the easy throws, earned from the focus of that offense.. the OL/run game.  Taking what the defense gives him.  He is playing a role instead of defining the team.  Right now, those "few bad passes a game" are the difference in the big games.  They aren't just misses, they are what in the hell are you throwing at misses... on third downs.  In the 4th quarter.  All the more frustrating after watching a crazy good throw made in the 2nd quarter.

I am not a rival by the way.  I live in San Antonio.  Life long Lions fan, but wtf is that good for.. the Cowboys have crept in over the 25 years in TX.  You can see my link to the Lions fading in that thread.

eta - totally jealous/fan of the Oline, love Zeke.  Love Jerry Jones of all people.  I just don't put Dak on a pedestal.

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matuski said:

Dig up a Romo thread and I was there defending him.

Same with Dez.

Just not Emmitt.  #### that guy.  

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matuski said:

It is the distinction between passer and QB.

Dak is a MUCH better QB than passer.  He isn't reading defenses and dissecting the play, threading tight windows, throwing WRs open (like the better QBs).  He is hitting the easy throws, earned from the focus of that offense.. the OL/run game.  Taking what the defense gives him.  He is playing a role instead of defining the team.  Right now, those "few bad passes a game" are the difference in the big games.  They aren't just misses, they are what in the hell are you throwing at misses... on third downs.  In the 4th quarter.  All the more frustrating after watching a crazy good throw made in the 2nd quarter.

I am not a rival by the way.  I live in San Antonio.  Life long Lions fan, but wtf is that good for.. the Cowboys have crept in over the 25 years in TX.  You can see my link to the Lions fading in that thread.

eta - totally jealous/fan of the Oline, love Zeke.  Love Jerry Jones of all people.  I just don't put Dak on a pedestal.

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As the latest rumor goes, unsigned QB Dak Prescott is "asking for somewhere like north of $45 million in that fifth year'' in order to finalize the long-term deal being offered him by the Dallas Cowboys.

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Stompin' Tom Connors said:

https://www.si.com/nfl/cowboys/news/dallas-cowboys-contracts-dak-prescott-wants-45m-for-5th-year-what-that-means

Smart negotiating -- Dak only wants a 4 year deal, which makes sense to free him up to move teams for big money as the salary caps adjust upward after TV contracts with the league are signed at the end of 2022.

So he's asking for an insane amount of money for that 5th year.

I've never been a huge Dak believer but his stats last year don't lie, and there's a good argument he's a Top 5 QB in the league (wouldn't be my argument but it's a defensible one).

Dak might have the slightly heavier seat on this particular leverage see-saw to get him closer to that $37M/yr he is apparently asking for.

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matuski said:

Mahomes, Wilson, Rodgers, Brees, Stafford, Brady, Ben - he isn't in this tier of passers right?  These guys carry their teams.

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Cjw_55106 said:

Ian Rapoport @RapSheet

According to the team side and Dak Prescott’s agent, the report () from

@CSimmsQB

is definitely not true. The two sides have never discussed such scenarios or anything like it. Dak wants a shorter deal, the #Cowboys want a longer one. July 15 is the deadline.

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Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Thanks. Too bad for Dak and his agent; thought that would be a bit of a savvy move to up the per year amt a mil or two.

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ESPN's Todd Archer reports the Cowboys' offer to Dak Prescott would make him the league's second-highest-paid quarterback annually.

The team's current offer includes a number similar to Jared Goff's $110 million guaranteed and would fall just behind Russell Wilson's $35 million annually. The Jones family has historically lived by a "deadlines make deals" mindset, so it's no surprise Prescott's side has yet to budge in any long-term negotiations. The date to monitor for any significant update remains July 15, which would force Dak to play out 2020 on the exclusive franchise tag if no long-term deal has been reached.

SOURCE: Todd Archer on Twitter

May 22, 2020, 1:03 PM ET

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ESPN's Adam Schefter reports Dak Prescott is expected to sign his franchise tender on Monday.

The franchise tender is worth $31.4 million this season, but this was just step one in their ongoing contract negotiations. Both parties want to agree to a long-term contract that keeps Prescott in Dallas for the foreseeable future. Prescott and Jerry Jones have until June 15th to agree to what could be the largest contract in NFL history (at least until Patrick Mahomes signs his), but Prescott signing his tender ensures that he will have to show up to training camp on schedule. With Amari Cooper, Michael Gallup, CeeDee Lamb, Ezekiel Elliott, and a strong offensive line, we should expect Prescott to be top-five in many quarterback categories. He's the fantasy QB3 in Rotoworld's staff ranks.

SOURCE: Adam Schefter on Twitter

Jun 21, 2020, 3:12 PM ET

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ESPN's Ed Werder reports that Dak Prescott's "decision to sign the franchise tender is not an indication that a long-term agreement is close."

ESPN's Adam Schefter reported that Prescott will sign his franchise tender on Monday. That will ensure that he shows up to training camp on time and play the 2020 season in Dallas. Beyond that, things need to be worked out and time is ticking. The Cowboys and Prescott have until July 15th to sign a long-term deal this season. The two parties understand that the deal will be highly lucrative, but the structure of the contract is still being ironed out. If the salary cap shrinks due to loss of revenue from COVID-19, the Cowboys will have issues keeping other key players in 2021 if they sign Prescott right now. Of course, Prescott is their most valuable player, so he should be the priority. Expect contract rumors to leak constantly over the next month.

SOURCE: ESPN.com

Jun 21, 2020, 5:42 PM ET

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misbell said:

dak is 5 and 13 against the 10 win teams

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misbell said:

dak is 5 and 13 against the 10 win teams he has gone against.

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Wise Old Owl said:

Any chance you can share where you got this stat? I'd like to see where other players compare. That's a pretty high standard

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Dak Prescott is seeking a long term contract of four years, but the Cowboys want him to sign a five-year deal, per Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk.

Most importantly, the two sides must agree to a multi-year contract by July 15 now that Prescott has signed his franchise tender. From Prescott's perspective, a four-year deal bakes in the notion that the Cowboys could stretch it one or two years longer by using the franchise tag. Prescott seemingly has all the leverage, because he if does not approve of the long term offer then he simply plays on the $31.4 million tag in 2020, then a possible $37.68 million tag in 2021.

SOURCE: Pro Football Talk

Jun 22, 2020, 11:46 AM ET

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Dak Prescott signed his franchise tender. 

This ensures he will at least show up for training camp on time and be under contract for the 2020 season. The franchise tag will pay him $31.4 million this season, but both sides are looking to iron things out long term. The major holdup reportedly is how many years the long-term contract should be. Prescott wants to sign a four-year deal. The Cowboys want him for five years. With the future salary cap numbers uncertain because of COVID-19, things are more complex than ever. They have until July 15th to agree to terms on a long-term deal and most outlets are reporting that they are "not close". If they don't, they will have to re-negotiate after the season. Stay tuned.

SOURCE: David Helman on Twitter

Jun 22, 2020, 3:56 PM ET

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Breezy H2O said:

He's got the weapons and is playing for a big boy contract. I'm buying.

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Ghost Rider said:

Jimmy G is not my boy.  All I said was that he is better than Dak. Which he is.  Yes, he came up short in the Super Bowl, but they don't come close to getting there without him, unless you really think they are getting the 1 seed without him. 

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KChusker said:

As much as it pains me to say this the 49ers had a better roster top to bottom than the Chiefs

They lost because they are so much weaker at the most important position

Jimmy G is awful. I feared Tannehill passing the ball in the AFC CG to AJB and a bunch of JAGs more than I ever did that bum Garroppolo throwing to Kittle, Deebo and Sanders.

His team is stacked with talent everywhere, he has a top 5 offensive mind in football and he still sucks. More so his team knows he sucks: there's a reason they refuse to consider any offers on Mullens or that Shanahan--a guy who let Matt Ryan break records airing it all over the field on the way to an MVP despite having 2 good RBs in Freeman and Coleman (before they became bad)--won't let Jimmy throw unless he absolutely has to (besides the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl--eternally grateful to Jimmy and Kyle for that)

And yes I am nearly certain they get there without him...unless you think his 6-8 for 77 yards in a blowout of the fraud Packers or 11-19 for 131 yards with a TD and pick against the Vikings’ 10 points were indispensable

Only game on their schedule they don’t win with Mullens starting is at New Orleans—the only time Jimmy has carried s*** his whole career

Dak is better. I don’t care how far they have reached in the playoffs

Jared Goff isn’t better than Matt Stafford either just because he rode peak Gurley, 3 stud WRs, and a Wade Phillips coached D to the Super Bowl. He's still a scrub

I am all for hating the Cowboys but Dak is so disrespected if people actually think frauds like Garoppolo and Goff are better than him

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Ghost Rider said:

What is the 49ers record under Kyle Shanahan when Garoppolo doesn't start?

With great talent around him, we've seen what Garoppolo can do - very good production and a trip to the Super Bowl.

Meanwhile, with great talent around him last year and playing in a much weaker division than the NFC West, Dak went .500 and came up short in most of the big games they had.  He had 4 gimmes against the Giants and Washington and still could only carry his team to 8-8.  And we have already seen how limited Dak is without great talent (when Zeke missed games due to suspension and Dak was dreadful more often than not). 

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Apple Juice said:

Man I could not disagree with this more. The narrative against Dak is a tidal wave at this point.

Garrapolo is god awful. 

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Ghost Rider said:

I think the problem is that far too many talk up Dak like he is a top 5 player at the position, when he clearly is not.  He is a good QB, one I'd put in the 9-15 range (give or take, opinions are ever-changing).  I would also put Garappolo in the same tier, and just a shade higher than Dak when ranking the players in that specific tier.  Jimmy G is not great, but this talk that he is "god awful" or "awful" just doesn't pass the sniff test. 

Top tier: Mahomes

Second tier: R. Wilson, Brees, D. Watson

Third tier: L. Jackson, Rodgers, Wentz, Brady

Fourth tier (9-15): Ryan, Garappolo, Dak, Cousins, Rivers, Stafford, Ben

Need to see how Ben looks again first before he goes back up to tier 3. That looks about right, and as always, your mileage may vary.   I suspect K. Murray will make a leap in one of those tiers soon, but he needs to do it first. Goff's mediocrity has been on display ever since Gurley stop being all-world.

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Ghost Rider said:

I think the problem is that far too many talk up Dak like he is a top 5 player at the position, when he clearly is not.  He is a good QB, one I'd put in the 9-15 range (give or take, opinions are ever-changing).  I would also put Garappolo in the same tier, and just a shade higher than Dak when ranking the players in that specific tier.  Jimmy G is not great, but this talk that he is "god awful" or "awful" just doesn't pass the sniff test. 

Top tier: Mahomes

Second tier: R. Wilson, Brees, D. Watson

Third tier: L. Jackson, Rodgers, Wentz, Brady

Fourth tier (9-15): Ryan, Garappolo, Dak, Cousins, Rivers, Stafford, Ben

Need to see how Ben looks again first before he goes back up to tier 3. That looks about right, and as always, your mileage may vary.   I suspect K. Murray will make a leap in one of those tiers soon, but he needs to do it first. Goff's mediocrity has been on display ever since Gurley stop being all-world.

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Ghost Rider said:

I think the problem is that far too many talk up Dak like he is a top 5 player at the position, when he clearly is not.  He is a good QB, one I'd put in the 9-15 range (give or take, opinions are ever-changing).  I would also put Garappolo in the same tier, and just a shade higher than Dak when ranking the players in that specific tier.  Jimmy G is not great, but this talk that he is "god awful" or "awful" just doesn't pass the sniff test. 

Top tier: Mahomes

Second tier: R. Wilson, Brees, D. Watson

Third tier: L. Jackson, Rodgers, Wentz, Brady

Fourth tier (9-15): Ryan, Garappolo, Dak, Cousins, Rivers, Stafford, Ben

Need to see how Ben looks again first before he goes back up to tier 3. That looks about right, and as always, your mileage may vary.   I suspect K. Murray will make a leap in one of those tiers soon, but he needs to do it first. Goff's mediocrity has been on display ever since Gurley stop being all-world.

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Deamon said:

I can get behind those rankings. 

I don't think anyone is talking about him in the top 5 QB's in the league though?  From a fantasy standpoint... yes many do have him ranked that high.  But i think most people would put him in the 9-15 range you have him in.

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Ghost Rider said:

I think the problem is that far too many talk up Dak like he is a top 5 player at the position, when he clearly is not.  He is a good QB, one I'd put in the 9-15 range (give or take, opinions are ever-changing).  I would also put Garappolo in the same tier, and just a shade higher than Dak when ranking the players in that specific tier.  Jimmy G is not great, but this talk that he is "god awful" or "awful" just doesn't pass the sniff test. 

Top tier: Mahomes

Second tier: R. Wilson, Brees, D. Watson

Third tier: L. Jackson, Rodgers, Wentz, Brady

Fourth tier (9-15): Ryan, Garappolo, Dak, Cousins, Rivers, Stafford, Ben

Need to see how Ben looks again first before he goes back up to tier 3. That looks about right, and as always, your mileage may vary.   I suspect K. Murray will make a leap in one of those tiers soon, but he needs to do it first. Goff's mediocrity has been on display ever since Gurley stop being all-world.

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Ghost Rider said:

What is the 49ers record under Kyle Shanahan when Garoppolo doesn't start?

With great talent around him, we've seen what Garoppolo can do - very good production and a trip to the Super Bowl.

Meanwhile, with great talent around him last year and playing in a much weaker division than the NFC West, Dak went .500 and came up short in most of the big games they had.  He had 4 gimmes against the Giants and Washington and still could only carry his team to 8-8.  And we have already seen how limited Dak is without great talent (when Zeke missed games due to suspension and Dak was dreadful more often than not). 

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KChusker said:

Wentz has become so overrated since his 2017. He is a good QB but no way is he in a tier with Lamar and Brady. I’ll take Ryan and Stafford all day over him. People just see his WRs and pretend he doesn’t have two of the best TEs in the game and an elite OL

Not sure current Rodgers is above the fourth tier either

Tannehill should be in tier 4 and Garoppolo is tier 5 below all these guys to me

Good list overall though. Can’t argue with the top 2 tiers

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KChusker said:

The 2017 and 2018 49ers talent wise are not the 2019 version—like at all

Their defense grew into a monster, and Kittle became Kittle

The 49ers are more talented than the Cowboys and frankly more talented than any team in the NFL. Cowboys have them beat at RB and WR. That’s about it. When Zeke was out Dak’s weapons were Cole Beasley, Terrance Williams, washed Witten and washed Dez who has since found no offers around the league.

If he had Cooper and Gallup the results would have been very different

And I notice in surroundings you aren’t taking into account coaching

Jimmy G is slightly Blake Bortles with better coaching and more offensive talent

If I was starting a franchise I’d take Darnold or Dan Jones before even touching Garoppolo

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Dallas Morning News' Calvin Watkins reports the Cowboys and Dak Prescott are "not close" to a long-term contact.

They have until July 15 to agree to terms, otherwise Prescott will play out the 2020 season on the franchise tag. That would mean Prescott is betting on himself once again. Playing seasons on the franchise tag is certainly lucrative -- he'd be eligible for a second franchise tag next season, too -- but there's no long-term guarantees. Both parties likely want structure, but Prescott isn't going to settle for anything less than $35 million annually. The Patrick Mahomes contract certainly elevated Prescott's leverage. We'll see if Jerry Jones improves his offerings early this week.

SOURCE: Calvin Watkins on Twitter

Jul 12, 2020, 5:57 PM ET

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Deamon said:

Sure you can pick them apart, but I like them generally.  As for Wentz, as much as you say he's overrated, I'd say he's been underrated since 2017.  His dropoff has been grossly exaggerated since he had such amazing numbers in 2017. 

In terms of QBR (not everything), he finished 1st in 2017, 12th in 2018, and 11th in 2019 (Brady was 3rd, 6th, and 17th), (Dak 4th, 17th, and 4th).  Carson has consistently been up there, and yes he has 2 great tight ends but the WR's were generationally bad.  Still easily overall had a poor receiving corps compared to NFL average, even including those tight ends.  Brady has also dropped off (we could debate this all day).

I'd personally go:

Tier 1: Mahomes

Tier 2:  R. Wilson, Brees, D. Watson, L. Jackson

Tier 3:  Rodgers,  Brady

Tier 3.5:  Wentz, Dak, Ryan (these guys could go up or down depending on this season)

Tier 4:  Cousins, Rivers, Stafford, Ben

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travdogg said:

Not that its really the point, I just enjoy a good rankings debate, but I think if I were tiering the leagues QB's, I'd go:

The Elite/Tier 1: Mahomes, Wilson, Brees, Jackson

Franchise QB's/Tier 2: Watson, Rodgers, Brady, Prescott, Ryan, Roethlisberger

Solid starters/Tier 3: Wentz, Cousins, Rivers, Stafford, Mayfield, Carr, Garoppolo, Tannehill

I think Prescott's camp gets zero leverage from the Mahomes deal, as they aren't the same caliber QB. Hell, the dropoff from Mahomes to Prescott might be just as big as the dropoff from Prescott to Dalton. That said, I do think Prescott has been a better player than Wentz every year except 2017. Wentz case, whether it is fair or not, gets hurt by the fact that Foles won the playoff games, and Foles won the Super Bowl. 

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Ghost Rider said:

Kittle was awesome in 2018 as well (without Jimmy G for most of it).   Their defense was above average in 2018 as well, and it's funny how much better it can look once its team has a good QB that can actually lead the offense to points, to where the defense plays with a lead more often than not.

Re: coaching, can I make the argument that Jimmy G went 13-3 in 2019 with a head coach who was 10-22 in his first two seasons, and interestingly, in that 10-22 run in '17 and '18, the 49ers went 6-3 when Garappolo started and 4-19 when he didn't, and this was when the 49ers, by your words, weren't as talented. See what I mean?  Garappolo's value to the 49ers is pretty clear at this point.  The biggest problem with him so far is his durability (he got hurt in both 2016 and 2018), which is probably why the 49ers are hanging to Mullens at his backup (despite his poor record when he had to play). Same thing with the Eagles and Wentz (who is far better), and why they keep a quality backup since Wentz has durability issues as well. 

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