Faust

Dynasty & Redraft: TE Hunter Henry, Los Angeles Chargers

366 posts in this topic

I think they need both guys to be honest (and I'm a Henry owner BTW). When they get near the end zone teams will defend Gates based on respect for him if nothing else. He also has a TD in 50% of the games he's played this season so he can still produce even if he isn't the player he once was. So when he's on the field defenses are going to account for him. When the Chargers are inside the 10 and 5 if they put both Henry and Gates on the field together defenses will have to account for both and likely want to double one of them because both are big, strong and talented and Rivers will target them. Gates has scored easily on his TDs this season near the goal line and we've seen Henry now do the same as well. If McCoy is smart he will use a 2-TE set as his primary goal-line formation every time they are inside the 5-yard line. I can't see how defenses stop them if they do. Either Gates or Henry should score nearly every time if Rivers throws a pass on target to them.

I think Gates and Henry are going to end up being very impactful for the Chargers and are going to end up helping one another quite a bit. Defenses can't defend both of these guys. Defenses still respect Gates and that will help Henry. If they start to rotate more toward Henry that will open things up for Gates and if Gates starts being effective again they'll rotate back to him which will open things back up for Henry and on and on etc. 

But as far as Henry specifically is concerned he's locked in now as a Top 10 contributor even with Gates back. No way the Chargers move away from. As I posted earlier we saw the blueprint in the Raiders game and last night's game backed it up again so I think it's set in stone. Next week's matchup is insanely great against Atlanta. They've been truly awful against TEs this season so he's looking fantastic again. So is Gates BTW. I could see him getting another TD in that game for what it's worth. 

Edited by packersfan

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Been lucky the last few years on waiver wire guys.  Hope it continues with this guy. 

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Man, I thought I was screwed when Stanford Man Fleener couldn't learn the damn play book in NO. Because of that guy, I was forced to start this kid the last few weeks in my main league and giddy as hell for it. In my other league, I went with Gronk over him because of Denver and Gates. Gronk could outscore him, or he could get a hang nail and miss the game and the next four outings. Loves me some HH. 

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I ended up getting him in half of my dynasty leagues, including 2/3 of my TE-premium leagues. I thought he was a solid prospect coming out of Arkansas, but honestly he is exceeding my wildest expectations. Rookie TEs just aren't supposed to do what he's doing. I don't think it's a fluke either. He has very good quickness in his routes for such a big target. Hang onto him if you have him in dynasty. He looks poised for a tremendous career.

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He definitely limped off at one point in the second half. Not sure he came back in after that. 

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Oh I'm sure I killed him.  I kill everyone 

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On 10/15/2016 at 9:39 PM, EBF said:

I ended up getting him in half of my dynasty leagues, including 2/3 of my TE-premium leagues. I thought he was a solid prospect coming out of Arkansas, but honestly he is exceeding my wildest expectations. Rookie TEs just aren't supposed to do what he's doing. I don't think it's a fluke either. He has very good quickness in his routes for such a big target. Hang onto him if you have him in dynasty. He looks poised for a tremendous career.

The same thing was said about the young QBs that are producing today and at one point it was said about RBs. Things are different now these kids are leaving college ready to play in the NFL regardless of position. 

Butt, Howard, Engram are going to come into the NFL and produce like rockstars.

Tex

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Opinions sought on HH.  After his weak showing Oct. 23rd, were his previous 3 good games a fluke?  Has he taken a back seat to a now healthy Gates?

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24 minutes ago, daylight said:

Opinions sought on HH.  After his weak showing Oct. 23rd, were his previous 3 good games a fluke?  Has he taken a back seat to a now healthy Gates?

Two red zone looks, and two near TDs. Could have easily had a much bigger day.

At some point they have to realize they are wasting targets on Gates right? Almost no separation or YAC at this point. And, Henry looks fantastic with the ball in his bands.

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On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 9:16 PM, flapgreen said:

Oh I'm sure I killed him.  I kill everyone 

Thanks doucher!!!

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Yep I killed him 

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Dropped for Ebron.  I keep rotating at that dopey position and am always a game behind.

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2 minutes ago, C-Bound said:

Dropped for Ebron.  I keep rotating at that dopey position and am always a game behind.

Yup, and I tried to be proactive by trading for one who seemsd to be a budding star. Ugh. 

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This kid looked great before he got a concussion. There's been almost no updates or news on him. Any homers have any read on what his involvement is going to be like moving forward?

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16 minutes ago, Tommy Collins said:

This kid looked great before he got a concussion. There's been almost no updates or news on him. Any homers have any read on what his involvement is going to be like moving forward?

He actually has a knee issue, the concussion issue I believe is behind him.

He was at practice yesterday, which is a good sign. Benjamin is banged up, he's won't be playing, meaning a few more passes for someone.

Gates had a good game against the Titans, so he's cutting into Henry's targets. BUT.....Gates has nothing left in the tank. Henry will get a bigger role down the stretch.

Against the Dolphins he could get 5-6 targets......50-60 yards....and hopefully a TD. That's my prediction as an avid Charger fan.

 

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18 minutes ago, thehoch said:

He actually has a knee issue, the concussion issue I believe is behind him.

He was at practice yesterday, which is a good sign. Benjamin is banged up, he's won't be playing, meaning a few more passes for someone.

Gates had a good game against the Titans, so he's cutting into Henry's targets. BUT.....Gates has nothing left in the tank. Henry will get a bigger role down the stretch.

Against the Dolphins he could get 5-6 targets......50-60 yards....and hopefully a TD. That's my prediction as an avid Charger fan.

 

Gates is still damn good in the RZ and near the goal line. He's aging and isn't the player he once was but Rivers still trusts him and targets him extensively in these areas. I think it's a mistake to dismiss him and assume Henry is going to vault past Gates in terms of a role in the San Diego offense. In fact, the opposite was true prior to Henry's recent knee injury. Henry's role was being reduced while Gates' role was being expanded. Personally, I think reducing Henry's role is ridiculous but that's exactly what McCoy had been doing.

Whether that changes now or coming out of the bye remains to be seen but I think one thing will remain constant - Gates will remain a key part of the offense as long as he's healthy. He's still really good in Red Zone and Goal Line situations and Rivers loves (scratch that LOVES) throwing to him there. I don't see any reason to think that will change. Henry was looking terrific when Gates was hurt and that wasn't enough of a reason for Gates' role to be reduced so I doubt it's going to be reduced moving forward as long as Gates is able to play.

I've said before in this thread I think there's room enough for both TEs to get plenty of targets and scoring opportunities in this offense if McCoy is smart enough to figure it out. He hasn't shown the ability yet to do that consistently. We'll see if that changes but it definitely is possible. This isn't rocket science and it's not like the Chargers have an over abundance of offensive weapons they can utilize. They're actually pretty limited in the passing game. They should be leaning heavily on Gates and Henry since they are arguably their two best options in the passing game right now along with Williams and maybe Inman. 

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7 minutes ago, packersfan said:

Gates is still damn good in the RZ and near the goal line. He's aging and isn't the player he once was but Rivers still trusts him and targets him extensively in these areas. I think it's a mistake to dismiss him and assume Henry is going to vault past Gates in terms of a role in the San Diego offense. In fact, the opposite was true prior to Henry's recent knee injury. Henry's role was being reduced while Gates' role was being expanded. Personally, I think reducing Henry's role is ridiculous but that's exactly what McCoy had been doing.

Whether that changes now or coming out of the bye remains to be seen but I think one thing will remain constant - Gates will remain a key part of the offense as long as he's healthy. He's still really good in Red Zone and Goal Line situations and Rivers loves (scratch that LOVES) throwing to him there. I don't see any reason to think that will change. Henry was looking terrific when Gates was hurt and that wasn't enough of a reason for Gates' role to be reduced so I doubt it's going to be reduced moving forward as long as Gates is able to play.

I've said before in this thread I think there's room enough for both TEs to get plenty of targets and scoring opportunities in this offense if McCoy is smart enough to figure it out. He hasn't shown the ability yet to do that consistently. We'll see if that changes but it definitely is possible. This isn't rocket science and it's not like the Chargers have an over abundance of offensive weapons they can utilize. They're actually pretty limited in the passing game. They should be leaning heavily on Gates and Henry since they are arguably their two best options in the passing game right now along with Williams and maybe Inman. 

Yeah I was actually convinced HH was going to take over earlier in the season. However, I've watched almost all SD games this year and Rivers just keeps feeding Gates, especially in the RZ / EZ. 

He's certainly not going away, and his usage has only increased since his hamstring injury. Part of the reason why Gates is now on my roster, and sadly, had to let HH go.

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39 minutes ago, thehoch said:

He actually has a knee issue, the concussion issue I believe is behind him.

He was at practice yesterday, which is a good sign. Benjamin is banged up, he's won't be playing, meaning a few more passes for someone.

Gates had a good game against the Titans, so he's cutting into Henry's targets. BUT.....Gates has nothing left in the tank. Henry will get a bigger role down the stretch.

Against the Dolphins he could get 5-6 targets......50-60 yards....and hopefully a TD. That's my prediction as an avid Charger fan.

 

If gates is healthy dont bother with henry

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Prior to Henry missing last week's game the roles appeared to be divided up this way:

Henry the primary blocking TE with a couple of specialty plays designed for him but that was it. He really had been almost entirely removed from the passing game the prior couple of games. I'm not blaming that on any injury either. He was on the field enough where if the Chargers wanted to get him the ball more they clearly could have. They just didn't want to.

Gates the lead TE on all designed passing downs and Red Zone/GL situations. 

This seems a rather ridiculous waste of Henry's receiving ability and we'll see if anything changes moving forward. I doubt Gates' role changes. Honestly, I can't see any reason why it would. 

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Gates and Rivers are best friends....He has a familiarity with him on and off the field. They both know what the other is thinking, you are right. BUT.....Henry is 10 times more the better tight end right now....Rivers knows this. Henry will get fed....And Henry is the tight end who can catch a 20 yard pass over the middle and run with it. Gates catches the ball, falls to the ground. I suspect Henry will be very very involved over the last stretch of games.....To say forget him if Gates is playing, is just wrong.

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1 minute ago, thehoch said:

Gates and Rivers are best friends....He has a familiarity with him on and off the field. They both know what the other is thinking, you are right. BUT.....Henry is 10 times more the better tight end right now....Rivers knows this. Henry will get fed....And Henry is the tight end who can catch a 20 yard pass over the middle and run with it. Gates catches the ball, falls to the ground. I suspect Henry will be very very involved over the last stretch of games.....To say forget him if Gates is playing, is just wrong.

I think everyone who has seen Henry play will agree Henry should be more involved in the passing game than he was the past two games when he played. The problem is he wasn't. So any belief that Henry will be fed isn't being supported by actual production on the field and that's all that matters. I'm a Henry owner so I clearly want him to be fed and I absolutely want him to be productive but the reality is Rivers wasn't targeting him and McCoy wasn't getting him involved in the passing game. Now will that change beginning Sunday and then coming out of the Week 11 bye? I certainly hope so and if the Chargers are smart they will get that done. But we see teams and coaches do clearly stupid things on a weekly basis in the NFL so until we see actual signs the Chargers are going to re-involve Henry back into the passing game anyone starting him is doing it more on a hope and a prayer than based on anything clearly being seen on the field the past few games.   

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31 minutes ago, packersfan said:

I think everyone who has seen Henry play will agree Henry should be more involved in the passing game than he was the past two games when he played. The problem is he wasn't. So any belief that Henry will be fed isn't being supported by actual production on the field and that's all that matters. I'm a Henry owner so I clearly want him to be fed and I absolutely want him to be productive but the reality is Rivers wasn't targeting him and McCoy wasn't getting him involved in the passing game. Now will that change beginning Sunday and then coming out of the Week 11 bye? I certainly hope so and if the Chargers are smart they will get that done. But we see teams and coaches do clearly stupid things on a weekly basis in the NFL so until we see actual signs the Chargers are going to re-involve Henry back into the passing game anyone starting him is doing it more on a hope and a prayer than based on anything clearly being seen on the field the past few games.   

He wasn't more involved for the last game because he didn't play. Please believe me...I follow every Charger game going back years and years.....Henry will be involved more than you think

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I think Henry is their best receiver but Gates is still very good at boxing people out and whenever he is healthy Henry is just personnel and match up dependent. If they go three wides he is screwed because Gates is going to be in there. Maybe they have gone away from the two tight ends a little bit because Henry has been banged up I'm not sure. When Gates is out you have a TE1  but when he's not you're left with a wildcard and trying to guess what SD coaches might do....  and some of the San Diego homers might tell you that their coaches don't know what they're doing depending on who you talk to.  I'm not sure why Henry isn't out there all the time in the Red Zone along with Gates but again it could be injury related.

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In Week 8 Henry was on the field for 56% of the snaps (Gates 68%). In Week 7 Henry led the team's TEs in snap percentage at 63%. He was on the field plenty the past two games that he played. McCoy just chose not to involve him in the passing game. So once again this isn't a question of injury, this is all about Henry's role needing to change before he can be started as a TE1 again. There's no denying his talent in my opinion. This comes down to whether McCoy wants to utilize him again. We know Gates will be utilized. What we don't know is if Henry will be too. Recent game evidence has told us he won't be. Let's see if that changes. 

Edited by packersfan
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Hunter Henry played 26-of-77 (33%) snaps Week 10 against the Dolphins.

 

Henry was used situationally in his first game back from a knee injury. Almost all his snaps came in the red-zone, where he scored a 10-yard touchdown. Henry should be closer to full health after San Diego's Week 11 bye.
 
 
Nov 14 - 10:49 AM

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Isn't he one of their better players?  How do you not attempt one pass to him?

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2 hours ago, RBM said:

Isn't he one of their better players?  How do you not attempt one pass to him?

Seems clear they are doing everything to get Gates the TD record even though Henry is a better option now.

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ESPN Chargers reporter Eric Williams expects sophomore Hunter Henry to be the Chargers' "main tight end" this season.

Henry took over the role in spurts last season, but he still played slightly fewer snaps than Antonio Gates on the whole. Williams expects that to change this year with Gates "being saved" for third downs and the red zone. After posting a 36/478/8 line last season, Henry should better his catch and yardage totals as a sophomore, but touchdowns could be a different story if Gates is able to stay on the field.
 
 
Source: ESPN 
May 30 - 11:05 AM

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3 hours ago, Faust said:

 

In limited playing time in 2016, Gates had 18 red zone targets (7 TD), tied for 12th in the NFL among all pass-catchers.  Hunter Henry had 16 red zone targets (7 TD).  Gates was 2nd in the NFL in TE red zone targets behind Kyle Rudolph (24).  All while the Chargers were doing pretty much everything in their power to get Gates the TD record.

Not too worried about Hunter getting his share; I would be shocked if his share doesn't increase.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/redzone-receiving.htm

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I was more bullish on Henry before Mike Williams was drafted - Gates IMO is only a short term obstacle until he gets the TD record.

A lot of solid receiving options in that offense, but obviously only one football.

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So Gates is tied with Gonzo for the TE TD record going into 2017. Once he takes hold of it as his own, do we see more push to Hunter or do we see Gates try to obliterate the TE record and tack up 10 on top of the 111 he already has?

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36 minutes ago, TheFanatic said:

So Gates is tied with Gonzo for the TE TD record going into 2017. Once he takes hold of it as his own, do we see more push to Hunter or do we see Gates try to obliterate the TE record and tack up 10 on top of the 111 he already has?

They are paying Gates $5.5M this season. If he is effective on third downs and in the red zone, as he was last season, they will continue to use him in those situations all season. If he isn't, they probably won't use him as much in those situations once he owns the record. I don't see any reason for a big dropoff in his performance, so I expect him to maintain a non-trivial role all season.

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Antonio Gates will easily go down as one of the best Chargers in the history of the Franchise. Deciding what course to chart regarding Gates and Hunter Henry for 2017 starts with what you think about Gates himself - can he be an effective player in 2017, and if so, how effective? My answer to this question is: yes, and very - in the same role/mode that he was very effective in last year. So, if we are like-minded, the next question I ask myself is: what kind of going-out party are they going to give an All-Franchise player, who is still very effective on 3rd downs and in the Red Zone, in conjunction with the knowledge that the 'Philip Rivers window' is closing? At this point, the Chargers know what they have in Henry, IMHO - they effectively have Gates' replacement waiting in the wings. As long as Gates is doing his thing, why would they need to put any extra wear on Henry's tires, if at all possible it can be prevented? Prevented, as in, they aren't wasting a year of Rivers, and the other personnel, including Gates, are getting the job done. Certainly where situations and matchups present themselves, Henry's going to see the field and generate stats, so I'd expect a small degree of statistical cannibalism to occur, but the position is going to generate so much statistical revenue, that the impact could be minimal. Again, though, assuming Gates is going to be effective (as I do), how do the Chargers send him off? I'm a betting man, and I'd wager a significant sum that they are going to try to accommodate Gates absolutely CRUSHING that record, so that his name, and by association, the Chargers. are as close to etched in stone in the NFL History Books as they possibly can. Perpetuity, baby.

The way I'm looking at the situation currently, I could see myself doing one of two things: pass on Henry at his current ADP, and draft Gates as a value play at his; or: if I'm having misgivings, draft both (using Gates as a hedge, a relatively cheap hedge, at that)...currently I predict a very rare zero-sum scenario where Gates and Henry cannot either both under perform, or outperform, their respective ADP's. Rather, it's going to be one, or the other. If Henry delivers, he's well worth his draft spot, and I spent little in the way of draft capital hedging him. If Henry underperforms ADP, again, I'm getting tremendous value from a late round pick that mitigates the capital I had to spend to acquire Henry.

Thankfully, we have an entire preseason to (hopefully) figure things out, because, even though we all miss on picks here and there, every Season, I don't like the second scenario much at all.

At least that's what IknowIthinkIknow :loco: on June 1...

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