Former NFL GM Phil Savage Browns will trade down (1 Viewer)

Former NFL GM Phil Savage gave his take to Mel Kiper on the big blockbuster trade.  

EDIT:  LINK to the Dari and Mel podcast.  This discussion starts around the 17:30 minute mark:  http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=15216714

He likes Carson Wentz and he also likes Jared Goff so Mel asked if Wentz fell to Cleveland, they would take him, right?

Phil said:

PHIL SAVAGE:  "No.  I think the Browns are going to be the next team to move out.  I really don't think they are going to take a quarterback.

I think they are into this whole idea of Moneyball.  

I think we are going to see them trade out, as soon as, even before the draft because they are essentially on the clock.

I think everybody in the NFL knows that there is going to be a first quarterback going (#1) and there is going to be a second quarterback going at pick two.

I really expect them to trade out."

KIPER:  Would you, Phil.  Would you trade out if you were the GM?

PHIL SAVAGE:  I would not because I think if you can solve the quarterback problem.  And they obviously have it (QB issue) there.  I experienced it there in my four years (as Browns GM) there as well.  

A new coach and a new quarterback merged together at the hip.  That is the way to go, to build out from that particular player.

To me, to build 21 other positions, and then solve the quarterback riddle.  It takes too long and the patience is not there in that particular town.

KIPER:  (Kiper rambles on saying Phil would take Wentz but then speculates on other teams who would move up to the #2 pick, Philly, 49ers somebody else and then asked Phil about who he felt was the #3 QB in the draft and how the Browns could attack that position if they trade down.  Savage said that he thinks the Browns will continue to move down the draft board to acquire more picks where they would be in the range to get Paxton Lynch and he also threw out some names they could target in the 2nd and 3rd rounds)

Go to the link for the full listen.  Also, Mel and his co-host Dario give their own takes on the big trade and comment on what Savage said about the Browns possibly trading down and how RG III fits into any potential trade-down by the Browns.  

Savage isn't making wild speculation.  Peter King's MMQB column today said he is hearing rumblings about the Brows trading down.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/04/17/jj-watt-houston-texans-injury-nfl-future-retirement-peter-king

• So now, effectively, Cleveland’s on the clock. I keep hearing Cleveland favors Goff, but I also keep hearing the Browns want to trade back. “Cleveland’s active, doing their due diligence,” one front-office source said Saturday.

• Spitballing on who might be aggressive in trying to move up. Too much talk around the Eagles (eighth overall pick) trying to get up for a quarterback to dismiss it. So that’s one. Two: Dallas (picking fourth), with Jerry Jones and Jason Garrett loving what they saw in Goff, and already liking Wentz a lot from the staff’s time coaching him in the Senior Bowl; my guess is Dallas is more of a Goff team. Three: The Jets (20th), though as ESPN’s Rich Cimini wisely pointed out, moving up to number two would likely cost them their best defensive player, unsigned defensive end Muhammad Wilkerson. To jump that high would require a high amount of capital, and Cleveland would have to want to take on a huge contract (maybe $18-20 million a year for Wilkerson) and be willing to move from two to 20—and perhaps get another sweetener to do the deal. Wilkerson is 26 and a sure thing, so I wouldn’t blame Cleveland for doing it. But if the Browns pass on a quarterback who becomes a star and Robert Griffin III struggles—well, bring on the next front-office crew. Four: Denver (31). It’s silly to even think, because it would take so much to move this far. The only way it makes a scintilla of sense for the Browns is if Denver parts with the expensive Von Miller. I just don’t see it. But I include Denver here because I can’t see John Elway entering camp with, say, Mark Sanchez, Nick Foles and Connor Cook. Doesn’t mean it won’t happen, but it would surprise me.

* * *


Ten Things I Think I Think


1. I think the Browns have thought seriously—internally—about bypassing a quarterback in the first round, with the second overall pick. This is because of a couple of things: They’re high on Robert Griffin III, and they’re not sure they want to pick an heir to the quarterback job before giving Griffin a legit chance to win said job. Plus, Hue Jackson is confident he can pick a good quarterback atop the second round as well, whether it be Connor Cook or another one from the bargain bin of this year’s quarterback crop.

Bracie Smathers said:

1. I think the Browns have thought seriously—internally—about bypassing a quarterback in the first round, with the second overall pick. This is because of a couple of things: They’re high on Robert Griffin III, and they’re not sure they want to pick an heir to the quarterback job before giving Griffin a legit chance to win said job. Plus, Hue Jackson is confident he can pick a good quarterback atop the second round as well, whether it be Connor Cook or another one from the bargain bin of this year’s quarterback crop.

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The part about giving RG3 a chance to show what he can do is why I don't think the Browns take a QB at 2 and should move down. Well that and I am not all that impressed with the QB in this draft.

This could easily be a smokescreen to see what offers they can get.  If they can move down to 8, get 8, 3rd round, 2017 1st and 2nd.  I bet they go for it.  Also if they could get 7, 2nd, 3rd, and maybe 2017 2nd.

But one thing that's proven in the league is that a quality QB is needed for long term competitiveness.  It's shaping up to be a crazy draft but I'd be surprised if the Browns move the pick prior to the draft/Rams announcing who they'll take. 

steelers1080 said:

This could easily be a smokescreen to see what offers they can get.  If they can move down to 8, get 8, 3rd round, 2017 1st and 2nd.  I bet they go for it.  Also if they could get 7, 2nd, 3rd, and maybe 2017 2nd.

But one thing that's proven in the league is that a quality QB is needed for long term competitiveness.  It's shaping up to be a crazy draft but I'd be surprised if the Browns move the pick prior to the draft/Rams announcing who they'll take. 

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The Cleveland Browns are not going to bypass the shot to land a 'potential' franchise QB without getting at least a first round pick in 2017 + a 2nd and/or 3rd round pick in this draft.  

They got a 1st and 4th to move down within the top-ten two years ago when Buffalo moved up for WR in a deep WR class where the Bills could have stood pat and taken Odell  Beckum Junior.  There is a huge drop-off after the top two QBs making the #2 pick more valuable than what they got from the Bills.  

A 2017 1st round pick would be the starting point of any negotiations.

steelers1080 said:

This could easily be a smokescreen to see what offers they can get.  If they can move down to 8, get 8, 3rd round, 2017 1st and 2nd.  I bet they go for it.  Also if they could get 7, 2nd, 3rd, and maybe 2017 2nd.

But one thing that's proven in the league is that a quality QB is needed for long term competitiveness.  It's shaping up to be a crazy draft but I'd be surprised if the Browns move the pick prior to the draft/Rams announcing who they'll take. 





2

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Oops, my bad, you did include the 2017 1st round pick.  If you listen to the rest of what Savage said, he mentions that he thinks that if the Browns move down that they would move down at leat one other time.  He even mentions the Titans who have the ammunition and desire to move-back up to land an OT.  

Kiper chimes in to say that where the Titans stand right now in the draft, pick #15, that they would miss out on the top-three OTs and that after those three offensive tackles are off the board, there is a big drop off.  He likes a guy that I love at OT, Jack Conklin.  Kiper thinks he will stick at left tackle and that he will play well and I agree with him.  Kiper also thinks Conklin will go off the board before the Titans pick and once again, I agree with Mel.

The Titans have said they are 'not done' (trading) so they could move one of those 2nd round picks and probably throw in another pick or two to satisfy the trade values to move up and land one of the top offensive tackles of this draft so missing out on Laremy Tunsil won't hurt that much.

So if the Browns move down to either SF or Philly's spot at #7 or #8, then they 'could' trade down again to the #15 pick and acquire a 2nd from Tennesee in addition to the 2nd this year and a 1st in 2017 plus a 3rd round pick.  One thing to note is that Philadelphia doesn't have a 2nd round pick this year so the picks would have to be adjusted if they made a deal.

Bracie Smathers said:

The Titans have said they are 'not done' (trading)

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This does not mean that they are thinking about trading #15 to go up. They could be thinking about trading down, or trading up from 2.02 in order to get someone in the 1st with a 5th year option. They could even be thinking about bundling the two or even three 2nd round picks to go up.

All it means is "´The Titans are open for business"

msommer said:

This does not mean that they are thinking about trading #15 to go up. They could be thinking about trading down, or trading up from 2.02 in order to get someone in the 1st with a 5th year option. They could even be thinking about bundling the two or even three 2nd round picks to go up.

All it means is "´The Titans are open for business"

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I think they were definitely hinting that they have the ammunition and desire to move back up and the target likely is OT which is their #1 need.

Here’s a breakdown of the Titans’ selections, after they traded the No. 1 pick to the Rams:

First round: 15th overall selection

Second round: 33rd overall selection

Second round: 43rd overall selection

Second round: 45th overall selection

Third round: 64th overall selection

Third round: 76th overall selection

Fifth round: 140th overall selection

Sixth round: 193rd overall selection (from Atlanta Falcons)

Seventh round: 222nd overall selection

They currently own 6 of the top 76 picks in this draft so I don't think they want more rookies on the team.  

Six rookies who will 'undoubtedly' make the squad squeezes the chances of the other 3 picks making the team.  There are not enough reps or positional coaches to give later round picks a fair shot if the top-six rookies are 'pretty much' guaranteed to make the squad so I doubt that when they said that they are 'open for business' that they were hinting that they wanted to continue moving down and diluting the value of those top picks.

Just now, in this podcast, Jim Wyatt, who was just hired by the Tennesse Titans says the Titans 'could move up from the #15 pick' and he noted the top needs and began by saying offensive tackle was a big need.  The hosts all agree that they should move up and get the guy that they want.  They don't like the idea of the Titans staying at pick #15.  

No time stamps on this podcast but go to the middle to hear Wyatt's take.

https://www.pressboxonline.com/fantasy

Congrats to Wyatt on what is hopefully a promotion for him. 

The Titans were not a good team last year. They have many needs and I don't think roster pace for all of those picks will really be a problem. If it is just trade for picks in 2017.

To trade out of the top spot then give up similar value to move back to pick two would not make much sense to me. However if they could move up to pick 9 or so to draft a tackle or defensive lineman, it wouldn't be nearly as expensive as trying to move back up into the top 5.

Bracie Smathers said:

I think they were definitely hinting that they have the ammunition and desire to move back up and the target likely is OT which is their #1 need.

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I don't deny that it is possible. It is just not certain that this is their desire

Biabreakable said:

Congrats to Wyatt on what is hopefully a promotion for him. 

The Titans were not a good team last year. They have many needs and I don't think roster pace for all of those picks will really be a problem. If it is just trade for picks in 2017.

To trade out of the top spot then give up similar value to move back to pick two would not make much sense to me. However if they could move up to pick 9 or so to draft a tackle or defensive lineman, it wouldn't be nearly as expensive as trying to move back up into the top 5.

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Yes, I agree with you in congratulating Jim Wyatt.  I've read him over the years and it is pretty cool to see a guy get a chance with a club that he covers.  

No team has ever had as top-heavy of a rookie class that the Titans would have.  In my humble opinion, it has to hurt the chances of later round picks making the club if all of the top picks are guaranteed roster spots which would decrease reps and face time with positional coaches.  

To your point about moving back up to the #2 spot, I think you missed the  key point about the Browns moving down TWO-TIMES.  The first to pick #7 or #8 and THEN again down to the Titans at pick #15.  So the cost would be considerably less.  I mentioned a 2nd round pick plus any other picks that would satisfy the trade value.  

So Tennessee would get one of the top-3 OTs they want plus they still get the 2017 1st round pick plus an extra 2016 2nd round pick, etc.

msommer said:

I don't deny that it is possible. It is just not certain that this is their desire

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Well, it seems that many people think that they have the ammunition and desire to get one of the top three OTs and not give away much from the trade.

steelers1080 said:

 Also if they could get 7, 2nd, 3rd, and maybe 2017 2nd.

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Not sure if I am reading this wrong, but if you're saying that Cleveland would drop from the #2 pick to #7,

and recieve a 2nd, 3rd, and a 2017 2nd in return, I would say no way does this happen.

The only way Cleveland drops out of the number 2 pick, is if the package includes a future first round pick.

... in my opinion.

Ron_Mexico said:

Not sure if I am reading this wrong, but if you're saying that Cleveland would drop from the #2 pick to #7,

and recieve a 2nd, 3rd, and a 2017 2nd in return, I would say no way does this happen.

The only way Cleveland drops out of the number 2 pick, is if the package includes a future first round pick.

... in my opinion.

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I'm not so sure.  They could still get a top talent at #7 and if they truly go "Moneyball" then they need to stockpile as many picks as they can get.  That said, Philly could make a better offer but at 7 they'd be pretty much guaranteed to get either Ramsey, Jack, Bosa, Buckner, or Tunsil.  To still be able to get one of those, and get an extra 2nd and 3rd this year and 2nd next year?  Not sure I see the downside.  Even though it's not true to the value chart, it makes a lot of sense based on this year's talent level.  They could also move to 8 if they think that Stanley or Zeke are worth the top 8 pick because they'd be guaranteed to get one of those top talents.

Browns taking Zeke at 7 or 8 has the probablity of -124986%

Ok Bracie thanks for clearing that up that the Browns would be moving down twice. The second trade possibly to pick 15 from the 7 or 8 spot. That makes more sense.

Kind of busy so didn't have time to listen to the podcast or read much details.

Biabreakable said:

Congrats to Wyatt on what is hopefully a promotion for him. 

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Last year, from Tennessean to Titans team

Bri said:

Last year, from Tennessean to Titans team

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I will have to update my beat writer rankings.

Bracie Smathers said:

Yes, I agree with you in congratulating Jim Wyatt.  I've read him over the years and it is pretty cool to see a guy get a chance with a club that he covers.  

No team has ever had as top-heavy of a rookie class that the Titans would have.  In my humble opinion, it has to hurt the chances of later round picks making the club if all of the top picks are guaranteed roster spots which would decrease reps and face time with positional coaches.  

To your point about moving back up to the #2 spot, I think you missed the  key point about the Browns moving down TWO-TIMES.  The first to pick #7 or #8 and THEN again down to the Titans at pick #15.  So the cost would be considerably less.  I mentioned a 2nd round pick plus any other picks that would satisfy the trade value.  

So Tennessee would get one of the top-3 OTs they want plus they still get the 2017 1st round pick plus an extra 2016 2nd round pick, etc.

Well, it seems that many people think that they have the ammunition and desire to get one of the top three OTs and not give away much from the trade.

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Yeah Wyatt did that last May or June. Several years back, the Jets had hired a longtime writer from the Bergen Record. I think they were first. Randy Lange maybe?

Teams have with Herchel trade and others but no need to nitpick, regardless I get your point. The Titans have a ton of backups and good quality backup guys-attitude, work ethic, etc. If they could add 22(or whatever) starters, they'd be all set. Unfortunately a lot of these backup quality players start. 

The top 51 count against the cap, only them, so 5th thru 7th or 6th and 7th are not likely to go against the cap at all. Some GMs and scouts discuss the 6th and 7th as guys they are not likely to sign as UDFAs but want. This is a change in drafting philosophy from the other rounds.

Titans flopped with BC's Gallick who didn't play well at all, Deontrez Mount who got beaten out by two UDFAs then curiously on IR rather than cut, and Tre McBride whom everyone seemed to be wrong on OR he needs some time to develop OR why is it that he fell from 3rd to 7th? He's an interesting one. Anyway, they didn't do much last year so I'm not hopeful.

6th and 7th is the perfect time to add a project, a KR, a LS, or a FB-they have all that.

We've been discussing this in another thread too.

The Browns seem to be on yet another rebuild while the Titans are staying together with interim turned active coach. Since they have 47 tight ends on the roster, they have "Mularkey guys" whereas Browns probably gotta add some "Hue guys."

Most fascinating for me was how the Browns trade down came up and right at that time reporters wrote how Pryor did pretty well for Hue as a QB and he liked him-then Hue said some nice things too. Smokescreen? Genuine? Did they add a QB and not know it, in Pryor?

I prefer trade down scenarios but they seem stuck, today. I think closer to the draft the Jets, Eagles, or 49ers will bite.

If push comes to shove, they ought to take Tunsil or Ramsey. Tunsil is a difficult piece to the puzzle to get. And then good luck passing against Haden and Ramsey at CB.

I have done a bunch of Browns reading lately but don't always or anything. They seem in the same spot as the Titans with their fan base. The Titans had to make a splash with their pick and we were discussing Ramsey over Tunsil for that splashiness. The trade is a splash, they're all set. I think the Browns need to give their fans a bone to chew on in a similar way. Give em' a guy to root for during the build. I'm not sure a QB being sacked often or throwing a zillion INTs accomplishes this. They'd have to 'nail' the QB pick to do it. If Bosa's gonna get 15 sacks, cool. Second round too, gotta lean toward a splash if there's a close call between a couple guys. The shine wore off Hue kind of quick. They were all excited and now it's same ol Browns. The right 'name' drafted seems important. Loyal fans rooting for a team not there, rooting for a team when they return....they can't push their luck.

Let's face it, the Browns know damn well they will probably have the number one pick next season, so passing on a QB this year is no big deal.

Biabreakable said:

I will have to update my beat writer rankings.

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It's amusing to listen to some podcasts or catch some notes on twitter. The other reporters tease him like his head might explode being privvy to some info and he can't break the story anymore.

All the pressers shown live, lots of video interviews or video chats, transcripts, having to write a story 4-5 days a week so he's finding GMs or old coaches or old players to get it done. You can see his handprint all over the site now.

Soulfly3 said:

Browns taking Zeke at 7 or 8 has the probablity of -124986%

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Doing what makes no sense?  That's so Browns.

What if they traded back to 8, then again back to 15 and picked up a 2nd, 2 3rds, and a 1st next year... and then drafted Lynch?

Every first round quarterback they have drafted has turned out to be a complete mistake. If they drafted a QB at 2, what makes this year any different? 

Brendon1215 said:

Every first round quarterback they have drafted has turned out to be a complete mistake. If they drafted a QB at 2, what makes this year any different? 

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Well, let's see...

Different player.  Different people in charge.  Different team mates.  Different everything. 

daveR said:

Well, let's see...

Different player.  Different people in charge.  Different team mates.  Different everything. 

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That's what Cleveland fans say every year, lol. We shall see though. 

Well, THIS is interesting.

It seems that Kevin Meers, the current Browns director of Football Research wrote a few Harvard Analytic articles a few years back before Kevin was with the Browns.  One of his articles was a new draft pick valuation chart shown here:

https://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpress.com/2011/11/30/how-to-value-nfl-draft-picks/

The Harvard Sports Analysis Collective


How to Value NFL Draft Picks


Posted on November 30, 2011 by kevinmeers
====================================

Kevin's article was publically criticised by Sigmond Bloom in a Bleacher Report article shown here:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1147777-why-any-nfl-gm-who-uses-the-harvard-nfl-draft-pick-value-chart-should-be-fired


Why Any NFL GM Who Uses the Harvard NFL Draft Pick Value Chart Should Be Fired



 



By Sigmund Bloom, NFL Draft Lead Writer 


Apr 16, 2012

====================================

Which promted this retort in an article by Kevin Meers:

https://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpress.com/2012/05/29/why-any-nfl-gm-who-reads-bleacher-report-should-be-fired-a-response-to-why-any-nfl-gm-who-uses-the-harvard-nfl-pick-value-chart-should-be-fired/


Why Any NFL GM Who Reads Bleacher Report Should Be Fired: A Response to “Why Any NFL GM Who Uses the Harvard NFL Pick Value Chart Should Be Fired”


Posted on May 29, 2012 by kevinmeers
=====================================

Which promted this response in the replies under the article from Sigmond:

Sigmund Bloom says:
May 29, 2012 at 2:25 pm
If teams don’t deviate from the chart, how could the patriots have moved down from 62 to 90 for less than the Jets paid to move from 47 to 43? what a team will pay for a pick is part what the pick is worth and part how much they value the player they are targeting/how many players they would be satisfied with at the picks.

Also, I’m not really sure how the rent analogy applies other than a bigger contract possibly giving a player more incentive to give less than full effort, which I address in my article.

As far as the value of early picks not being lessened by uncertainty, I believe the price the Browns and Redskins paid just to move up within the top six basically proves that teams will pay what they think is a player is worth when trading up as opposed to what a chart that averages out the careers of the players picked at that slot as a baseline for value.

As far as teams having overconfidence in their ability to evaluate players correctly, well if they weren’t supremely confident in that ability, why would they ever get in that business? They are paid to make those decisions, I would hope they believe every one of them is correct when they make them, if not, they are unfit for the job.
=====================================

Which prompted this reply from Kevin, lol:

kevinmeers says:
May 29, 2012 at 9:49 pm
On 1: As I wrote, teams do deviate on a micro-level. However, when you look at all of the data, not one or two examples, teams do not deviate from the chart. Read the paper I linked to for more info.

2: The rent analogy is lifted directly from your article. I interpreted the analogy as meaning that the potential of a high draft pick (like land downtown) is not influenced by prior busts. I argued that the base rate of success at that pick (or land downtown) matters when evaluating how much it’s worth. It has nothing to do with having a bigger contract.

3: I think you’re probably right: teams probably do pay what they think a player is worth. That does not mean that they SHOULD pay that price. Teams are overconfident in their abilities to evaluate players, so they overpay for early picks.

4: You successfully identified a potential source of overconfidence, but you haven’t shown why being overconfident would be a good thing. I’m also not sure if you think that (A) confidence is what should determine employment in the NFL or (B) having a perfect ability to predict players’ abilities. (A) would allow for a a supremely confident idiot to run teams; (B) does not exist.
=====================================

Interesting but this actually does have relevance to this thread because the original article by Kevin shows that high draft picks are overvalued.  Kevin is a Harvard graduate as is the new Browns analytic front officers Sashi Brown and Paul DePodesta and they must have liked much of what he wrote when Kevin was with the Havard Sports Analysis Collective.  

The original chart that Kevin Meers came up with is based off of the CAV chart that Chase Stewart came up with which shows high draft picks are valued too high.  That would indicate the Browns new analytic front office would prefer to trade down and collect any premium value they could get from trading what they see as  an over valued asset, i.e., a high draft pick.

Thought the Bloom/Meers ###-for-tat exchange was interesting especially since Kevin Meers is with the Browns and his philosophy could come into play with what happens with the 2nd pick in the draft.

Brendon1215 said:

That's what Cleveland fans say every year, lol. We shall see though. 

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You are implying that geography is the deciding factor.  I suspect the things I named have a greater effect.

daveR said:

You are implying that geography is the deciding factor.  I suspect the things I named have a greater effect.

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Re-reading my initial statement might help. I said their fans...what does that have to do with geography being a deciding factor? Fans can be anywhere in case you weren't aware bud.

Brendon1215 said:

Re-reading my initial statement might help. I said their fans...what does that have to do with geography being a deciding factor? Fans can be anywhere in case you weren't aware bud.

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This was your initial statement:

Every first round quarterback they have drafted has turned out to be a complete mistake. If they drafted a QB at 2, what makes this year any different? 

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What the implication is is that because they are the Browns, no matter which QB they take, it will be a mistake.  Is that a correct interpretation?  Follow up question:  Do you believe that nonsense?

massraider said:

This was your initial statement:

What the implication is is that because they are the Browns, no matter which QB they take, it will be a mistake.  Is that a correct interpretation?  Follow up question:  Do you believe that nonsense?

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Sure do. 

http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/cleveland-browns-new-qb-jersey.jpg 

Brendon1215 said:

Sure do. 

http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/cleveland-browns-new-qb-jersey.jpg 

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Yawn.  Teams are bad until they aren't.  

Taking shots at the worst team in the league bores me, and I sure don't believe that all QBs that wind up there are magically bad.  

If Cleveland follows this whole moneyball approach, it will really shake up how they view draft picks and prospects.  Getting multiple picks by sliding down a few spots would be a no brainer with this approach.  I'm not sure moneyball works with football but I guess we'll see.  Saying we won't draft a defensive end with arms less than 33 inches seems too stringent for football to me.  Football is more about heart and natural instincts than measurables I believe.  I guess we'll see.

Phil Savage might be right.  The Browns are 'openly' fielding offers for the #2 pick according to many reports.  The Eagles have been speculated as a potential trade partner.

If  the Browns front office has completely bought in on the analytic approach, then they may be open to trading down once again should a deal for the #2 pick happen.  I mentioned the Titans since they have a ton of high picks and want to secure one of the top-three tackles and probably would have to move up.

If the first domino falls and the Browns trade out of the #2 pick, then they 'could' double-down and move further back in the first round.

-------------------------------------

Jeff DarlingtonVerified account
‏@JeffDarlington Jeff Darlington Retweeted Ian Rapoport
Nothing imminent here, but yes, GM Sashi Brown has initiated the calls to gauge market for his No. 2 pick.Jeff Darlington added,
Ian Rapoport @RapSheet
.@JeffDarlington describes the #Browns as "actively shopping" No. 2, with Sashi Brown making calls inside the Top 10. Fun is just beginning.

Sigmund Bloom Retweeted
 Josh Norris ‏@JoshNorris  16m16 minutes ago
Josh Norris Retweeted Adam Schefter
#Eagles ?Josh Norris added,
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
Last week, No. 1 pick was traded, and No. 2 pick now could be dealt. “There is interest in the pick,” one Browns source acknowledged today.
 

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/04/browns_actively_shopping_no_2.html#incart_2box

 Browns actively shopping No. 2 in top 10, Eagles a possibility

CLEVELAND, Ohio — The Browns are actively shopping their No. 2 pick and initiating calls with teams in the top 10 to try to trade down, a league source confirmed for cleveland.com.

One likely trade partner, the source said, is the Philadelphia Eagles at No. 8, who were the runner-ups to the Rams in the sweepstakes to move up to No. 1 with the Titans.

NFL Network's Jeff Darlington first reported Tuesday that Executive Vice President Sashi Browns is making calls in the top 10 to gauge the market for the No. 2 pick.

The draft game changed last week week when the Rams traded up to No. 1 with the Titans to take one of the top two quarterbacks, Carson Wentz or Jared Goff.

Since that time, speculation has mounted that the Browns will try to get a similar haul for the right to choose the quarterback the Rams leave on the board.

===================

The Niners 'might' also be in play to move up to the #2 pick.

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http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/baalke-49ers-have-have-some-fluidity-nfl-draft

There has already been one major shakeup in the Top 10 of the NFL Draft, and general manager Trent Baalke is not ruling out another involving the 49ers.

In the six drafts under Baalke’s direction, the 49ers have made three trades in the first round. They traded up in 2010 and 2013 to select tackle Anthony Davis and safety Eric Reid, respectively. Last year, Baalke traded back two spots and drafted defensive lineman Arik Armstead.

The 49ers own the No. 7 overall pick in the draft, and Baalke did not provide any clues that narrow the focus for what the organization plans on April 28, the first day of the draft.

“There’s no position that’s ruled out at seven,” Baalke said recently at the NFL owners meetings. “And whether we stay at seven, there’s a possibility we move up...

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Matt Miller Retweeted Aaron Nagler
Yes. Bills aren't sold on Tyrod as long-term QB.Matt Miller added,
Aaron Nagler @AaronNagler
More I read about the Eagles, 49ers & Jets possibly making a move to draft a QB, the more I think the Bills might quietly be trying the same
Matt Miller ‏@nfldraftscout  

ESPN's Adam Schefter says he doesn't believe the Browns were ever going to take a quarterback at the top of the first round.
Speaking on the Ross Tucker Football Podcast, Schefter said he thought the Rams-Titans trade had no bearing whatsoever on Cleveland's draft plans. As Schefter tells it, Cleveland's new brass plans to construct its supporting-cast players before taking the dive on a potential franchise quarterback. Schefter mentioned the Eagles, 49ers, and Jets as potential trade partners for the No. 2. With Eagles HC Doug Pederson fawning over Carson Wentz once again on Monday, that trade pairing makes almost too much sense to actually happen.

TFY Draft Insider's Tony Pauline reports that the Jets "made a serious offer" to Tennessee for the No. 1 pick and were "close to getting the deal done."
In the end, it appears that the Rams edged out the Eagles and Jets to acquire the No. 1 pick. 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25557933/draft-even-after-blockbuster-deal-titans-trying-to-trade-into-the-top-10

JASON LA CANFORA
CBS Sports NFL Insider
Follow Jason
Draft: Even after blockbuster deal, Titans trying to trade into the top 10
April 17, 2016 1:22 pm ET

...this team is not done trading.

“He's moving back up,” said one executive who all but guaranteed to me recently the Titans would be trading the top pick. “He has the ammo to do it and it's heading in that direction.”
 

http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2016/4/14/11431932/nfl-draft-rumors-eagles-browns-trade-quarterback-jared-goff-cleveland-no-2-titans-rams

NFL Draft Rumors: Don't rule out Eagles trading with Browns to No. 2 overall pick

Al of those rumors about the Philadelphia Eagles trading up to the No. 1 overall pick are null and void now that the Los Angeles Rams struck a deal with the Tennessee Titans. But the trade up rumors are not completely dead yet! Now NFL insider Ian Rapoport is saying the Birds, who were in the mix for No. 1, could be in play for a trade up with the Cleveland Browns to get to No. 2 overall.

http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2016/4/5/11369818/nfl-draft-rumors-doug-pederson-carson-wentz-eagles-quarterback-north-dakota-state

NFL Draft Rumors: Doug Pederson loves Carson Wentz and the Eagles are trying to get him

"Make no mistake about it, I still think the Eagles first and foremost are trying to find a way to get Carson Wentz. I know Doug Pederson loves him," he said. "I know that from people behind the scenes, in the know. That’s who he wants and that’s who he likes. It’s just going to be tough — to move up that far is going to be a challenge."

The Eagles were spotted having dinner with Wentz last week after going through a private workout with him. Key members of the Eagles at that dinner included head coach Jeffrey Lurie, Doug Pederson, Howie Roseman, and offensive coordinator Frank Reich. Here's a picture of Pederson and Lurie toasting with Wentz:

Soulfly3 said:

Browns taking Zeke at 7 or 8 has the probablity of -124986%

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Is this from your source again?

mr fancypants said:

Is this from your source again?

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Yeah the source that says you dont rebuild with a RB

smoke monster said:

Wasn't the Moneyball approach targeting guys who were undervalued or overlooked due to some weird quirk they had? I don't see what it has to do with trading down and acquiring extra picks...but it wouldn't surprise me if they draft a side-armed QB who no one has heard of.

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Because extra picks means more chances of acquiring good players.

The Browns need to stop trading down and getting cute on draft day. And oh keep Haslam out the draft room.

I remember that other time the Browns planned to build their team before addressing the QB situation.  They drafted a TE in the first instead of taking a QB... who went on to win 2 Superbowls.  Building a team before getting a QB is all well and good, but if you think that a QB can be a franchise QB, you take him.  It's just that simple.  Now, if the Browns don't think Wentz or Goff can be a franchise QB, then they could go in another direction.

I think they could still go QB if no one overpays for the #2 pick.

SaintsInDome2006 said:

The Browns need to stop trading down and getting cute on draft day. And oh keep Haslam out the draft room.

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I think all approaches will work provided you draft quality players.  (gotta agree with the Haslam part, though)

Browns trade out of the #2 slot to the Philadelphia Eagles #8 slot.

Trade details:

Eagles give up:

• 2016 1st round pick #8
  
• 2016 3rd round pick #77
  
• 2016 4th round pick #100
  
• 2017 1st round pick
  
• 2018 2nd round pick
  

Browns give up:

• 2016 1st round pick #2
  
• 2016 4th round pick #99
  

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I think that the Browns 'might' still be open to trading down again.  The Titans have been mentioned as one of the teams who were looking to move up into the top-10 picks.

Good for the Browns, now be smart

Bracie Smathers said:

I think that the Browns 'might' still be open to trading down again.  The Titans have been mentioned as one of the teams who were looking to move up into the top-10 picks.

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They can get an impact player still, a potential 10 year guy team HOF type. I don't think the Browns should risk it.

Titans may covet Stanley, otherwise I think Conklin falls into their lap. They claimed to really want Ramsey and Tunsil so I think the trade up is for them. Some talk that they had exceptional thoughts on Oregon DE but I'm not sure he is THAT special. 

With such a heavy group of quality DL, the Browns and Titans could shore those up. As the tackle talks have heated up guys like Whitehair have fallen. With the extras, take the top G or top C. Almost anything that has either team not trading and adding a top guy at any position seems reasonable to me. Short of the few studs either team has, I almost don't care which position as long as it's a top talent

So the Browns got for free the guy that the Redskins got raped for; and then almost directly because of having that guy, they were able to rape Philly in a similar fashion.

Brilliant!

Bracie Smathers said:

Browns trade out of the #2 slot to the Philadelphia Eagles #8 slot.

Trade details:

Eagles give up:

• 2016 1st round pick #8
  
• 2016 3rd round pick #77
  
• 2016 4th round pick #100
  
• 2017 1st round pick
  
• 2018 2nd round pick
  

Browns give up:

• 2016 1st round pick #2
  
• 2016 4th round pick #99
  

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I think that the Browns 'might' still be open to trading down again.  The Titans have been mentioned as one of the teams who were looking to move up into the top-10 picks.

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I love that the #99 and #100 picks were thrown in. I wonder what stage of negotiation that one came in.

Anyway, I think the biggest problem with the Browns' plan is the roster limitations that are in the NFL. The money-ball execs don't have any experience with that. They are used to being able to see how guys develop in the minor leagues without having to worry about its impact on their pro roster.  

I think I read that they now have 12 picks this year. If they were to try to keep them all (and they won't) that is almost 25% of the number of players that will be on the team as 1st year players. Sure, they'll be able to stash guys on the practice squad, but any NFL team can poach from the practice squad. Its not like they'll be able to stash guys in the minor leagues if they don't pan out right away.

Jail said:

I love that the #99 and #100 picks were thrown in. I wonder what stage of negotiation that one came in.

Anyway, I think the biggest problem with the Browns' plan is the roster limitations that are in the NFL. The money-ball execs don't have any experience with that. They are used to being able to see how guys develop in the minor leagues without having to worry about its impact on their pro roster.  

I think I read that they now have 12 picks this year. If they were to try to keep them all (and they won't) that is almost 25% of the number of players that will be on the team as 1st year players. Sure, they'll be able to stash guys on the practice squad, but any NFL team can poach from the practice squad. Its not like they'll be able to stash guys in the minor leagues if they don't pan out right away.

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not good teams have much higher % of rookies make the team than good teams

Jail said:

I love that the #99 and #100 picks were thrown in. I wonder what stage of negotiation that one came in.

Anyway, I think the biggest problem with the Browns' plan is the roster limitations that are in the NFL. The money-ball execs don't have any experience with that. They are used to being able to see how guys develop in the minor leagues without having to worry about its impact on their pro roster.  

I think I read that they now have 12 picks this year. If they were to try to keep them all (and they won't) that is almost 25% of the number of players that will be on the team as 1st year players. Sure, they'll be able to stash guys on the practice squad, but any NFL team can poach from the practice squad. Its not like they'll be able to stash guys in the minor leagues if they don't pan out right away.




2

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Actually, I made a mistake.  The Browns are not including their 4th round pick in 2016 (pick #99) in this deal.

They are trading their 4th round pick in 2017, NOT their 4th round pick (#99) this year.   

Great trade for the Browns. I wonder how they will mess this up this time?

LawFitz said:

So the Browns got for free the guy that the Redskins got raped for; and then almost directly because of having that guy, they were able to rape Philly in a similar fashion.

Brilliant!

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Philly really regretting this one.

cstu said:

Philly really regretting this one.

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Philly doesnt get to play an expansion team every week.  Pump the brakes