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RB Kenneth Dixon, Free Agent

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If you had to own one (redraft, standard scoring) would it be West or Dixon?

Edited by rascal

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23 minutes ago, rascal said:

If you had to own one (redraft, standard scoring) would it be West or Dixon?

Tough but I think Dixon.  He's trending upward while West is faltering a bit.

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West got rejected by CLE and TEN. Enough said. Dixon should be the starter. But, Harbaugh is acting like John Fox did in Carolina with Deshaun Foster and Deangelo Williams. That was maddingly frustrating back in the day.

That idiot KC coach (Haley I think) did the same thing with a washed up Thomas Jones and Jamaal Charles for a couple of years.

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6 minutes ago, hotlanta said:

West got rejected by CLE and TEN. Enough said. Dixon should be the starter. But, Harbaugh is acting like John Fox did in Carolina with Deshaun Foster and Deangelo Williams. That was maddingly frustrating back in the day.

That idiot KC coach (Haley I think) did the same thing with a washed up Thomas Jones and Jamaal Charles for a couple of years.

It was haley.

I think harbaugh would make the switch though.  he won't let this go on forever.  he usually uses one back.  Dixon has been working himself back from injury.  I would not be shocked for him to suddenly overtake west in the coming weeks.  it's possible.  haley and fox pulled that crap for years. 

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5 minutes ago, hotlanta said:

West got rejected by CLE and TEN. Enough said. Dixon should be the starter. But, Harbaugh is acting like John Fox did in Carolina with Deshaun Foster and Deangelo Williams. That was maddingly frustrating back in the day.

That idiot KC coach (Haley I think) did the same thing with a washed up Thomas Jones and Jamaal Charles for a couple of years.

Again, no.  Dixon and West had better camps than the incumbents Forsett and Buck Allen, and Dixon appeared to have taken over the starting job in the most important third preseason game before injuring his MCL.  There are two grades of MCL injury - one which takes 2 to 4 weeks to heal, and one 4 to 8.  Nobody knew which one, and a couple sites tweeted he would be out 4 weeks.  Turns out he was out closer to 8.

In his first games back from injury, they eased him in.  Then thty gave him more cerries last week, and he looked good before getting blasted on a tackle and getting a "chest contusion".  He kept playing but after a couple decent gains early in the game he didn't get much more and both of them were getting hit in the backfield as pittsburgh keyed in on the run, allowing that mike wallace td and some pass interference while they hemmed in the short stuff.

This week dixon ran for over 6 yards a carry while west ran for 3 against the same d and with more carries. He looks healthy and for the first time he looks like the guy who had won the job in preseason.  They didn't use him a ton this week on short rest with a chest bruise and a big lead against a 0 win team that was turning the ball over, but when the games was in doubt, he was getting a decent share of touches (west out touched him 5 to 3 in the first quarter and 4 to 3 in the second, but dixon was targeted on a couple passes so they had about the same number of plays called for them).  

With a longer rest before their next game i would expect dixon to be fully healthy and get about half the touches again, maybe more.  and if he vontinues to outperform west as he has done before and after the mcl injury, i would expect him to take over in the next couple weeks for a playoff run.  

It was cleveland, but he got 80 yards on 11 touches.  5 or more yards on all but 2 of his touches.  He's fresh legs guy.  Fresh legs guy wins leagues.  Every year.  

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22 minutes ago, hotlanta said:

West got rejected by CLE and TEN. Enough said. Dixon should be the starter. But, Harbaugh is acting like John Fox did in Carolina with Deshaun Foster and Deangelo Williams. That was maddingly frustrating back in the day.

That idiot KC coach (Haley I think) did the same thing with a washed up Thomas Jones and Jamaal Charles for a couple of years.

I won't argue that the Ravens are tearing the NFL apart or anything, but after two straight wins vs. division opponents, I doubt Harbaugh is feeling much pressure to change things.

These guys are trying to win NFL games, not fantasy football games.  Using both guys seems to be working.

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All 5 receptions came in the first half.  If Cleveland could score he might've got a few in the 2nd half as well. 

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7 minutes ago, davearm said:

I won't argue that the Ravens are tearing the NFL apart or anything, but after two straight wins vs. division opponents, I doubt Harbaugh is feeling much pressure to change things.

These guys are trying to win NFL games, not fantasy football games.  Using both guys seems to be working.

Those games were both home games, the 1st against Pitt with Ben hobbled and then against an awful Browns team. The schedule gets much tougher starting next week, so they're going to have to play much better to win those (although I think the running backs themselves aren't the main problem).

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9 hours ago, bostonfred said:

West ran the ball 21 times for 65 yards.  His longest run of the night were 17, 6, 5, and 4 yards.  His other 17 runs went for 33 yards.  

I am not cherry picking.  I don't need to.  West ran for 3 yards per carry.  That's not great.  But compare it side by side with Dixon.  

Dixon ran it 6 times for 11, 6, 0, 5, 6 and 10 yards (plus a 17 yard run called back for holding).  These runs were all on first and second down and went for 4 first downs, so they're not watered down third down back carries.  He simply ran better than West did. 

Dixon added 5 catches for 42 yards with a long of 12.  West had one catch for 12.  Again, he caught the ball better than West.

West also whiffed on a block early that got Flacco hit (they drew a roughing the passer penalty).  Dixon stood guys up a couple times but went out for a lot of pass routes too.

Dixon ended up with 80 yards on 11 touches.  West ended up with 77 yards on 22 touches.  

Draw your own conclusions about whether this will remain a split backfield or if West will remain the starter/top back.

Honestly, I was going to post something similar to this last night immediately after the game (with a few caveats) so I am glad to see a confirmation of my thoughts from a smart poster such as BostonFred and am in total agreement that Dixon is great, but I have already been carrying the torch for this guy in this thread for some time so didn't want to dominate or continue to push this too much like a fanboy. Would rather see what the pool thinks. The only thing I will add is (and I am a huge Dixon believer) that the called back run was on 3rd and long, so while it was a nice run, it was in one of those situations where the D was playing vs a deep pass. Also, West just sucked last night compared to Dixon (stats tonight / college tape/ draft profile / & eye test all confirm this so it wont bee too much longer now), but Dixon did his damage vs CLE, which also sux, so while its encouraging to see his touches going up, I'm not going to get too excited yet and still wouldn't start him yet, but down the line he could be huge considering his easy sch and the fact that he is clearly better than West in most of the important phases of the game. 

Edited by mnmplayer

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16 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

Again, no.  Dixon and West had better camps than the incumbents Forsett and Buck Allen, and Dixon appeared to have taken over the starting job in the most important third preseason game before injuring his MCL.  There are two grades of MCL injury - one which takes 2 to 4 weeks to heal, and one 4 to 8.  Nobody knew which one, and a couple sites tweeted he would be out 4 weeks.  Turns out he was out closer to 8.

In his first games back from injury, they eased him in.  Then thty gave him more cerries last week, and he looked good before getting blasted on a tackle and getting a "chest contusion".  He kept playing but after a couple decent gains early in the game he didn't get much more and both of them were getting hit in the backfield as pittsburgh keyed in on the run, allowing that mike wallace td and some pass interference while they hemmed in the short stuff.

This week dixon ran for over 6 yards a carry while west ran for 3 against the same d and with more carries. He looks healthy and for the first time he looks like the guy who had won the job in preseason.  They didn't use him a ton this week on short rest with a chest bruise and a big lead against a 0 win team that was turning the ball over, but when the games was in doubt, he was getting a decent share of touches (west out touched him 5 to 3 in the first quarter and 4 to 3 in the second, but dixon was targeted on a couple passes so they had about the same number of plays called for them).  

With a longer rest before their next game i would expect dixon to be fully healthy and get about half the touches again, maybe more.  and if he vontinues to outperform west as he has done before and after the mcl injury, i would expect him to take over in the next couple weeks for a playoff run.  

It was cleveland, but he got 80 yards on 11 touches.  5 or more yards on all but 2 of his touches.  He's fresh legs guy.  Fresh legs guy wins leagues.  Every year.  

Couldn't have said it better myself. All you need to know about this situation is right here. Table set for a nice run EOY. Honestly, if it were not for the early season injury, I believe Dixon would have been one of the SODs and been producing like a RB1 all season.

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I don't think West will go away, but Harbaugh is no dummy. If he feels Dixon is the more explosive back and gives Baltimore the best chance to win down the stretch and into the playoffs he's going to get the ball.

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Agree with a lot in this thread since last night's game, and disagree with some as well.

First, the agreement/upside. As far as Dixon passing the eye test -- agree he has. Looked as quick and as involved as West was -- they trotted Dixon out and into the mix on the first series, and he was involved the whole way through (except in garbage time when it was actually Allen who got the looks). Dixon looked the best he has since he was back, and looks to be an asset in the run and pass game (bonus for PPR leagues).

That said, I'm with those who think this will remain an RBBC unless injury strikes or Dixon clearly outshines West in all facets. I don't think that's going to happen. For all the talk about Dixon being the more talented back (and arguably he might indeed be), West is also running with purpose, and doing it well. He's earned the split, and I can't see Harbaugh-- who needs to look for any and all spark in the offense -- wouldn't continue using West as long as he keeps running as he has to date. Dixon would have to be the second coming of Barry Sanders in the second half of the season to relegate West to the bench, and even then, could see West retaining a role, if only for Harbaugh to be able to use any and all weapons he has in staying competitive in the division.

Good news is that the Ravens are competitive -- 5-4 atop their division with the Steelers bound to be getting better as Ben does, and the Bengals seemingly being more pedestrian than in the years' past.

The bad news is that I don't think the personnel the Ravens have will give either Dixon or West a chance to really shine. Both West and Dixon seem to have similar builds and running styles. Both seem to have problems fighting through first contact at the line. Flacco looks terrible this year, and a solid strategy I see teams adopting is stacking the box and forcing Flacco to throw -- resulting in many more INTs than TDs on the year.

@strong: I do think you are right about the line. Raven's O-line is stacked with a few rookies, and were rocked back on their heels continuously by the Browns. The only success the Ravens had were on deep shots to Wallace and Smith, and middle-range dumps to Dixon and West and Pitta. This, I fear, is what the Ravens will continually bring to the table -- a limited offensive capability.

This impedes Dixon's ability to run as he does not look like a guy who can power through the tackles, and the outside runs are limited by the inexperience/ineffectiveness of the Raven's O-line. 

As such, I think Dixon has more value in PPR leagues as that's where he is going to get used the most -- in screens and wheel dumps. Can he have success on the ground? Sure -- he looked dynamic in open space, but it just looked hard for him to get to that second level, and the line is doing him no favors. West still looks slightly better in terms of running between the guards, so I think he still is in the mix.

So for me, reason enough to hold Dixon given his usage and my league's rules, but I wouldn't hesitate to drop him to fill for need elsewhere -- I think Dixon's best shot to really contribute is next year.

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Great work in here Stompin Tom and Boston Fred.

Fred, you're the best thing going in this forum.

Edited by Mister CIA
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6 hours ago, mnmplayer said:

Honestly, I was going to post something similar to this last night immediately after the game (with a few caveats) so I am glad to see a confirmation of my thoughts from a smart poster such as BostonFred and am in total agreement that Dixon is great, but I have already been carrying the torch for this guy in this thread for some time so didn't want to dominate or continue to push this too much like a fanboy. 

LMAO

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9 hours ago, rascal said:

If you had to own one (redraft, standard scoring) would it be West or Dixon?

West has a decent NFL sample size telling you he almost certainly isn't going to be a league winner down the stretch.

Dixon has a small (almost meaningless) sample size telling you he probably isn't going to be.

This time of year, from my RB4 or similar slot, I'm looking for potential league winners, period. Give me the guy who has maybe a low double-digit percentage chance of that over the guy who has virtually none, 100 times out of 100.

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4 hours ago, Mr. Irrelevant said:

West has a decent NFL sample size telling you he almost certainly isn't going to be a league winner down the stretch.

Dixon has a small (almost meaningless) sample size telling you he probably isn't going to be.

This time of year, from my RB4 or similar slot, I'm looking for potential league winners, period. Give me the guy who has maybe a low double-digit percentage chance of that over the guy who has virtually none, 100 times out of 100.

Payton Hillis won people leagues as a Browns RB one year.  Don't write off West.  

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23 hours ago, bostonfred said:

He's fresh legs guy.  Fresh legs guy wins leagues.  Every year.  

 

there are two types of fresh legs guys, too. opportunity guys and talent + opportunity guys.

dixon is the latter and things are trending in the right direction for him to make an impact.

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17 hours ago, Mister CIA said:

Great work in here Stompin Tom and Boston Fred.

Fred, you're the best thing going in this forum.

Thanks man

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As a Dixon owner I just made a trade that included West -- both he and I considered West as the injury handcuff to Dixon going into playoff time.

 

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Baltimore Ravens RB Kenneth Dixon (knee) feels like he is 100 percent recovered after missing time due to a medial collateral ligament injury in his left knee. "I feel like I'm back 100 percent, and I'm ready for the workload that the team gives me," Dixon said.

Edited by BigSteelThrill
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3 hours ago, BigSteelThrill said:

Baltimore Ravens RB Kenneth Dixon (knee) feels like he is 100 percent recovered after missing time due to a medial collateral ligament injury in his left knee. "I feel like I'm back 100 percent, and I'm ready for the workload that the team gives me," Dixon said.

Me happy.

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Rappaport saying Dixon getting more carries today even though West the "starter."

Anyone rolling him out there due to wind concerns elsewhere?

Bloom seems high on him.

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https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/800379575251386368

Per Rapoport, West will start but Dixon's carries will increase given his TNF performance.

Terrence West should adopt Mark Ingram as a drinking buddy -- both backs proven they can start and do well, but are held back by a coach who hates them.

And yes, I'm a Dixon owner. All about Dix getting his shot as he seems more dynamic, but having watched all Ravens games this year, can say with confidence that West has done nothing wrong to really lose his starting spot. I don't see him keeping it much linger regardless. 

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56 minutes ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/800379575251386368

Per Rapoport, West will start but Dixon's carries will increase given his TNF performance.

Terrence West should adopt Mark Ingram as a drinking buddy -- both backs proven they can start and do well, but are held back by a coach who hates them.

And yes, I'm a Dixon owner. All about Dix getting his shot as he seems more dynamic, but having watched all Ravens games this year, can say with confidence that West has done nothing wrong to really lose his starting spot. I don't see him keeping it much linger regardless. 

West is a good 2 down back, but not nearly as good as a pass catching RB.

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Running well today, looks strong, but West is simply not going away.

Big believer in Dixon, and think that Harbaugh may still continue to leak him more carries and opportunities over time this season, but West being effective makes Dixon expendable for those who are looking for more usage/volume in the playoffs, IMHO. Next year is Dixon's year.

 

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Officially on this train in dynasty.  Just accepted Dixon for Travis kelce.   Kelce had an expensive contract but the other guy is in playoff contention and needed a te.  

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1 hour ago, rickyg said:

Officially on this train in dynasty.  Just accepted Dixon for Travis kelce.   Kelce had an expensive contract but the other guy is in playoff contention and needed a te.  

Wow. I'd call that being in. I own both these guys and don't think I'd give up Kelce for Dixon.

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33 minutes ago, kutta said:

Wow. I'd call that being in. I own both these guys and don't think I'd give up Kelce for Dixon.

I love kelce but hate Alex smith.   Smith holds him back from being elite and doesn't seem to be going anywhere anytime soon.  Plus his contract was pricey.  My team is in rebuild mode and  I needed rbs.   I think Dixon is the future in Balt.  

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Well, week 12 is officially the first week that Dixon led the backfield in snaps (outsnapped West 31-23). If we're really rooting around for good news, I guess it was nice they went to Dixon on a 4th-and-1 in the 4th quarter.

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On paper Miami is a really nice matchup for Dixon, they gave up 11/79/1 in RB receiving to Hyde and Draughn last week.

 

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I still can't trust him enough to start him even against MIA who gives up a lot against the run.

The rest of the season looks pretty rough?

I'm holding for next season as a potential keeper...hopefully not a RBBC next year.

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I'm tempted to put him in as a flex play.

Probably a mistake but it's a pretty solid match-up for a breakout game.  He's averaging 12 opportunities/game since the bye week (high of 17 and low of 7), if he can get going early I could see him leading the backfield in snaps/touches/targets.

According to SSN&D's awesome spreadsheet (if you aren't using this resource you're missing out in a huge way) Dixon's snap % has been 29%, 32%, 39% and 46% and Terrance West has been in on 41%, 41%, 42% & 36% over that same time span.  Dixon's utilization seems to be trending up too 11, 13, 7, 17 (targets+carries).  The 7 opps two weeks ago is definitely  a concern but the upside now seems to be there (at least it's not limited by injury anymore).

Dunno. Trying to talk myself into starting him AND benching him at the same time.

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37 minutes ago, Chaka said:

I'm tempted to put him in as a flex play.

Probably a mistake but it's a pretty solid match-up for a breakout game.  He's averaging 12 opportunities/game since the bye week (high of 17 and low of 7), if he can get going early I could see him leading the backfield in snaps/touches/targets.

According to SSN&D's awesome spreadsheet (if you aren't using this resource you're missing out in a huge way) Dixon's snap % has been 29%, 32%, 39% and 46% and Terrance West has been in on 41%, 41%, 42% & 36% over that same time span.  Dixon's utilization seems to be trending up too 11, 13, 7, 17 (targets+carries).  The 7 opps two weeks ago is definitely  a concern but the upside now seems to be there (at least it's not limited by injury anymore).

Dunno. Trying to talk myself into starting him AND benching him at the same time.

Not sure I want to start him yet due to better options but if you need a RB this week you could do a lot worse. At the very least he is a great bench player to throw in if your team suffers an injury.

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Starting him this week, not thrilled with my other RB2/RB3 options J. Hill/Booker, Bloom has a nice piece on Dixon in his sleeper report.

 

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PPR....Dixon or Blount?? seems like a no brainer for Blount.....it's not.....Blount is in on 1/3 rb snaps for NE now.  If he doesn't find the end zone he's a mediocre option.

Edited by richn

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Love Dixon, think he'll continue to progress but not enough still for me to believe volume or split will change -- both he and West will likely get around 12 carries per their averages, with both being involved in the passing game, too.

Definitely possible for Dixon to get slightly more work, which I see as a continuing trend if he continues to perform at the level he is currently. Also definitely possible for a breakout game against a middling Dolphins run D that is reeling a little from last week.

But like others, would take some of the higher probability backs mentioned (Blount, Booker, Hill) instead of troitting out Dixon. If he blows up on your bench, at the very least you will know you can capitalize in the playoffs as that would shift the split more solidly in Dixon's favor ROS.

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17 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Love Dixon, think he'll continue to progress but not enough still for me to believe volume or split will change -- both he and West will likely get around 12 carries per their averages, with both being involved in the passing game, too.

Definitely possible for Dixon to get slightly more work, which I see as a continuing trend if he continues to perform at the level he is currently. Also definitely possible for a breakout game against a middling Dolphins run D that is reeling a little from last week.

But like others, would take some of the higher probability backs mentioned (Blount, Booker, Hill) instead of troitting out Dixon. If he blows up on your bench, at the very least you will know you can capitalize in the playoffs as that would shift the split more solidly in Dixon's favor ROS.

We need to win this week to make the playoffs, in some cases

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18 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Love Dixon, think he'll continue to progress but not enough still for me to believe volume or split will change -- both he and West will likely get around 12 carries per their averages, with both being involved in the passing game, too.

Definitely possible for Dixon to get slightly more work, which I see as a continuing trend if he continues to perform at the level he is currently. Also definitely possible for a breakout game against a middling Dolphins run D that is reeling a little from last week.

But like others, would take some of the higher probability backs mentioned (Blount, Booker, Hill) instead of troitting out Dixon. If he blows up on your bench, at the very least you will know you can capitalize in the playoffs as that would shift the split more solidly in Dixon's favor ROS.

I disagree with you higher probability argument for Blount, Booker, Hill.

Dixon has just as much chance of success as any of those guys, see his snap count in the 45-55% range this week.

Snap count week 12:

Booker 58%

Jeremy Hill 49%

Dixon 46%

Blount 37%

 

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45 minutes ago, bb7278 said:

 

I disagree with you higher probability argument for Blount, Booker, Hill.

Dixon has just as much chance of success as any of those guys, see his snap count in the 45-55% range this week.

Snap count week 12:

Booker 58%

Jeremy Hill 49%

Dixon 46%

Blount 37%

 

Snap count might be similar but what is the touch count for point of comparison? 

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1 minute ago, I Am the Stig said:

Snap count might be similar but what is the touch count for point of comparison? 

Booker -25 touches 24/79 and  1/22

J. Hill - 18 touches 12/21  and 6/61

Kenneth Dixon -17 touches 13/49 and 4/31

Blount -11/67

 

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45 minutes ago, bb7278 said:

Booker -25 touches 24/79 and  1/22

J. Hill - 18 touches 12/21  and 6/61

Kenneth Dixon -17 touches 13/49 and 4/31

Blount -11/67

 

Thanks!

The trend is certainly there but Dixon still seems a game or two off from a real coming out party. 

He'll stay on my bench and will remain my "break glass in case of emergency". 

I look forward to his draft value next year though.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, I Am the Stig said:

Thanks!

The trend is certainly there but Dixon still seems a game or two off from a real coming out party. 

He'll stay on my bench and will remain my "break glass in case of emergency". 

I look forward to his draft value next year though.

 

 

No problem, all 4 of those guys kind of just melt together on the page for me, biggest separator obviously is matchup/gameflow.

Just my personal opinion but this week I see this order in FP in 0.5 PPR:

Blount

 

Dixon

Hill

Booker

 

With the last 3 likely being within 2-3 FP of each other, I just like the way Dixon looks compared to Hill and Booker. He seems much more primed for big plays this week, MIA is vulnerable to pass-catching RB's and I think he has the makings of a great one.

 

 

Edited by bb7278
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On 12/1/2016 at 2:04 PM, bb7278 said:

Starting him this week, not thrilled with my other RB2/RB3 options J. Hill/Booker, Bloom has a nice piece on Dixon in his sleeper report.

 

Debating Booker vs. Dixon.

Dixon definitely trending in the right direction. This COULD be the game, but who knows. In terms of playoff implications, this is a big game for both Balt/MIA. They are competing against each other for a final spot. Gotta think Harbaugh uses his best weapons in this game and no screwing around.

Was looking at some of MIA's game logs vs. the run and wasn't impressed. Hyde had a more than solid week last week running and receiving. The week before Gurley actually almost averaged 4 YPC AND he scored a TD. Miami somehow shut down M. Gordon (who has slowed down a bit), and Forte ran wild on them.

The floor here seems to be what's been going on the last couple weeks: 40-50 yards rushing, 4-40 receiving. 10-12 points. And this is with no TD.

If by chance Harbaugh adjusts the snaps/touches ever so slightly we could have quite a bit of ceiling here. Something like 60 -75-1 and 5-60. 

I feel like the ceiling is close to being reached. Very close. And I don't want to miss out in a key game where I feel like I'm "settling" for the supposed safe floor of Booker.

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