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TheBottomLine

Su'a Cravens - SS/LB WAS

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Any thoughts on this kid out of USC?  Rumored to be playing a hybrid SS/LB role.  Obviously can't help but to think about Deone Bucannon but he's not that kind of athlete.  Sneaky potential though?

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you'll want to check out Jene's rankings and write up if you haven't seen that yet. He should be listed as a safety by MFL in the end, he's going to wear Sean Taylor's number he used as a rookie to honor him. I really like him in the fit he's going to have, considering him as a 2nd round pick in my 16 team league. Jene seems to be high on him based on his ranking as well.

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=16bramel_combined_rookie_board_1.0

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Bummer, took him at 3.10 in my 10-teamer for extra LB depth.  I realize he has better value at DB, but DB's are also easier to come by.

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On 5/4/2016 at 10:53 PM, TheBottomLine said:

Bummer, took him at 3.10 in my 10-teamer for extra LB depth.  I realize he has better value at DB, but DB's are also easier to come by.

No, man, that's not a bummer at all.

 

DB are easy to come by, but DBs that play LB are NOT easy to come by.  

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6 hours ago, massraider said:

No, man, that's not a bummer at all.

 

DB are easy to come by, but DBs that play LB are NOT easy to come by.  

Yeah, you are correct.  Having Deone, I definitely understand this.

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I'm looking to draft him in the 2nd round of my rookie draft. I'm hoping he is a starter at SS in base and plays linebacker in nickel and dime packages. I'm a Deone Bucannon owner and it has paid dividends. He has a DB # but plays LB. Big advantage.

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I'd be cautious here.  Roto catches on to these things pretty quickly.  The reason we got Barron and Buchanon last year was because it didn't become obvious for those guys until later in the season and Roto/MFL doesn't update position listings after the season starts.  There's a decent chance that if he's lining up at LB a lot they redesignate him.

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Whatever position he lines up at, he's going to be schemed to make plays. I'd rather he be listed as a safety but I'll take him either way.

Edited by WagesOfZin

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On May 9, 2016 at 8:12 PM, Hankmoody said:

I'd be cautious here.  Roto catches on to these things pretty quickly.  The reason we got Barron and Buchanon last year was because it didn't become obvious for those guys until later in the season and Roto/MFL doesn't update position listings after the season starts.  There's a decent chance that if he's lining up at LB a lot they redesignate him.

Wearing a DB number may influence them, and don't think the Skins know where they want him.

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I fear that Roto will keep us hanging until right before the start of the season on this one.

My guess is he is going to be classed as a LB.

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On 5/15/2016 at 9:11 PM, cr8f said:

Wearing a DB number may influence them, and don't think the Skins know where they want him.

Didn't stop them from listing Bucanon and Barron at LB.  Roto has taken note of him lining up at LB and actively compare him to Bucanon.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/11208/sua-cravens

Second-round pick Su'a Cravens played inside linebacker at rookie minicamp.
Cravens should get most of his snaps as a dime linebacker, but will also see time at safety and in nickel packages. The Redskins want to use him as their version of Deone Bucannon. Cravens dropped down to 215 pounds before the draft. May 14 - 6:25 PM
 
Redskins signed second-round S/LB Su'a Cravens to a four-year contract.
Cravens profiles as a hybrid safety-linebacker in the Deone Bucannon mold. Word out of the Redskins' facility is the team views him as a dime 'backer. May 9 - 11:27 AM

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55 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

Didn't stop them from listing Bucanon and Barron at LB.  Roto has taken note of him lining up at LB and actively compare him to Bucanon.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/11208/sua-cravens

Second-round pick Su'a Cravens played inside linebacker at rookie minicamp.
Cravens should get most of his snaps as a dime linebacker, but will also see time at safety and in nickel packages. The Redskins want to use him as their version of Deone Bucannon. Cravens dropped down to 215 pounds before the draft. May 14 - 6:25 PM
 
Redskins signed second-round S/LB Su'a Cravens to a four-year contract.
Cravens profiles as a hybrid safety-linebacker in the Deone Bucannon mold. Word out of the Redskins' facility is the team views him as a dime 'backer. May 9 - 11:27 AM

LB is just where he started rookie camp, next week it could be elsewhere, but you are right next year it could be LB. I already lost Buchannon so hope he does move around. 

 

If he lines up at S in base and LB in the dime he may stay where he is. It's a long off season so have to let it play out.

 

Adding, who would be the SS then, Ihenacho, Jarrett? If they do move him it may only be on passing downs and not play him at LB like Deone.

Edited by cr8f

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1 hour ago, cr8f said:

LB is just where he started rookie camp, next week it could be elsewhere, but you are right next year it could be LB. I already lost Buchannon so hope he does move around. 

 

If he lines up at S in base and LB in the dime he may stay where he is. It's a long off season so have to let it play out.

 

Adding, who would be the SS then, Ihenacho, Jarrett? If they do move him it may only be on passing downs and not play him at LB like Deone.

I'm not arguing that he is going to be LB.  I am cautioning that he could and not to over-invest.  I have no interest how they list him either way.

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I am keeping an eye on him, but I think he will get overdrafted in my rookie draft, as after Barron/Buchanon last year, people are looking for the next pumped up SS playing LB.

The difference is, those guys were cheap.  Pretty sure I picked up both as FA.  Buchanon was just one of four safeties the Cards had, and suddenly was playing LB.  Barron was a failed top pick, cut by his team.  

 

I have a feeling Cravens will stay listed as a safety this year, only because I don't see the Skins in a rush to change his designation to a position that gets paid higher.  To the best of my knowledge, the MFL designations come from teams' own rosters, how the teams list them.  A player would have to make a full conversion to a different position in order for a team to change from a position with a certain salary, to one with a higher salary.  

The Raiders aren't going to list Khalil Mack as a DE until they have to, which sucks for fantasy owners.  Cravens, I think, will be listed as a safety until the team has completely abandoned all pretense of playing him as a safety, like the Cards and Rams with Buchanon and Barron.  

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Given this is a below average offensive rookie class, would it be crazy to target this guy with a mid second round pick in rookie drafts.  If what Massraider says above is true, he may be listed as a safety all this year and possibly next (possibly dual designation would be best possible outcome). 

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Took him at 5.05, after Ramsey(not a CB required league), Joseph and Neal. Killebrew went at 5.12. 

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4 hours ago, massraider said:

I am keeping an eye on him, but I think he will get overdrafted in my rookie draft, as after Barron/Buchanon last year, people are looking for the next pumped up SS playing LB.

The difference is, those guys were cheap.  Pretty sure I picked up both as FA.  Buchanon was just one of four safeties the Cards had, and suddenly was playing LB.  Barron was a failed top pick, cut by his team.  

 

I have a feeling Cravens will stay listed as a safety this year, only because I don't see the Skins in a rush to change his designation to a position that gets paid higher.  To the best of my knowledge, the MFL designations come from teams' own rosters, how the teams list them.  A player would have to make a full conversion to a different position in order for a team to change from a position with a certain salary, to one with a higher salary.  

The Raiders aren't going to list Khalil Mack as a DE until they have to, which sucks for fantasy owners.  Cravens, I think, will be listed as a safety until the team has completely abandoned all pretense of playing him as a safety, like the Cards and Rams with Buchanon and Barron.  

For MFL leagues it's not about what the team lists.  The Raiders have listed Mack at DE since last year.  MFL imports from Rotoworld directly, and Roto STILL has Mack at LB.

 

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On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 2:04 PM, matttyl said:

Given this is a below average offensive rookie class, would it be crazy to target this guy with a mid second round pick in rookie drafts.  If what Massraider says above is true, he may be listed as a safety all this year and possibly next (possibly dual designation would be best possible outcome). 

Not crazy, I've seen him go in the 2nd a couple of times. For me it would depend on if the 3 QBs were off the board and I had decent depth at WR/RB/LB.

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Does anyone seriously think he's being groomed to be an ILB in their base D?  The report from OTAs means nothing other than he will likely see some time in the middle of the field at the second level on passing downs. 

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18 hours ago, Bronco Billy said:

Does anyone seriously think he's being groomed to be an ILB in their base D?  The report from OTAs means nothing other than he will likely see some time in the middle of the field at the second level on passing downs. 

I don't, but didn't see Deonne Buchan as an ILB either. I think he'll play several positions, they like his versatility.

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He is creeping into the second round in rookie drafts now.

Any position change on MFL before week 1 is going to cause a lot of pain.......

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3 hours ago, scothawk said:

He is creeping into the second round in rookie drafts now.

Any position change on MFL before week 1 is going to cause a lot of pain.......

They gave him a DB number so probably won't change, before week 1 at least. 

 

Adding,

He played ILB with the 2nd team the first OTA, this week and next week's  schedule (May 31, June 1-2, June 6-9) may tell us more. 

Edited by cr8f

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6 hours ago, cr8f said:

They gave him a DB number so probably won't change, before week 1 at least. 

 

Adding,

He played ILB with the 2nd team the first OTA, this week and next week's  schedule (May 31, June 1-2, June 6-9) may tell us more. 

I still fear the worst here no matter what his number is. Ive seen it too many times before with these late season changes.

Im only drafting him in leagues where I need ILB help as well, just in case.

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7 hours ago, scothawk said:

I still fear the worst here no matter what his number is. Ive seen it too many times before with these late season changes.

Im only drafting him in leagues where I need ILB help as well, just in case.

I hope not after losing DE Jerry Hughes and S Buchanan to LB this year. 

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15 hours ago, cr8f said:

They gave him a DB number so probably won't change, before week 1 at least. 

 

Adding,

He played ILB with the 2nd team the first OTA, this week and next week's  schedule (May 31, June 1-2, June 6-9) may tell us more. 

Mark Barron still has a DB number though, so Rotoworld/MFL does not treat that as determinative.

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On 31/05/2016 at 3:35 PM, Don Quixote said:

Mark Barron still has a DB number though, so Rotoworld/MFL does not treat that as determinative.

We need to find out who makes the position changes at Roto, and then look at his fantasy squads to see who he owns, or more importantly, doesn't own. :)

 

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9 hours ago, scothawk said:

We need to find out who makes the position changes at Roto, and then look at his fantasy squads to see who he owns, or more importantly, doesn't own. :)

 

Buccanon is still #20 and listed at S on arizonacardinals.com. 

 

And the FBG rankings have Cravens as an OLB. Maybe for this year they are right. 

Edited by cr8f

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6 hours ago, cr8f said:

Buccanon is still #20 and listed at S on arizonacardinals.com. 

 

And the FBG rankings have Cravens as an OLB. Maybe for this year they are right. 

AZ.com can say what they like, it doesn't impact on fantasy position designation. The homepage is pimping Matt Barkley for crying out loud.

As for OLB, I though the  fluff was that he was playing at ILB?

This ride has many ups and downs to come.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, scothawk said:

AZ.com can say what they like, it doesn't impact on fantasy position designation. The homepage is pimping Matt Barkley for crying out loud.

As for OLB, I though the  fluff was that he was playing at ILB?

This ride has many ups and downs to come.

 

 

 

That's for sure, maybe the rankings here will end up being the right ones. If that's the case I'll need a safety.

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21 hours ago, cr8f said:

Now rotoworld has him at ILB, but MFL doesn't (yet).

I think MFL has various times that they do batch changes to match rotoworld.  I wouldn't expect the change until training camp is under way.

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Still potential for him to change and change back

Not a massive surprise though. Ive still drafted hi in leagues where I needed LB help and slightly earlier in leagues that credit pass defenses.

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Rotoworld jumping the gun here listing him at ILB after first practices. TC should signal where he plays.

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How are they jumping the gun? He has played exclusively at the linebacker position and the coaches have mentioned nothing about putting him out at safety. He isnt even a starter. I think there is a lot of wishful thinking going on here. He will be a solid player one day but right now he is clearly being over drafted. He is not a safety. He is a linebacker.

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1 hour ago, cr8f said:

Rotoworld jumping the gun here listing him at ILB after first practices. TC should signal where he plays.

X2

I'm not rushing to judgment here. This is from a WaPo article about him in early June:

 

Quote

 

“I have to be careful with that because a guy like that you can do so many things with,” Barry said. “You can play him at inside ‘backer, you can play him at outside ‘backer and rush him off the edge or drop him into coverage. You can play him in the slot in a nickel position and do a bunch of things with him.

So, right now kind of just as a starting point, he’s playing our weak-side linebacker – which we call ‘Mo’ – in base and then he’s playing our weak-side linebacker in nickel, which we call the dime linebacker. But I think as he learns and he picks up the system and the more comfortable he gets, the sky is the limit with all the different things you can do with him. But we’ve got to remember, he’s a new kid coming in, learning the playbook, learning all new terminology. He’ll be the first one to tell you, the rookie minicamp, it was like we were speaking a different language, which is understandable.”

During position drills, Cravens has received work at both linebacker and safety. However, during team drills, he has stuck to linebacker because of the need for him to fully grasp one position before moving on to others.

 

1

For me, this part in bold is the key. He's just learning the defense. He's going to get used, moved around in the end. I don't know think anyone has a handle on how he'll be used - what the positional snap counts are, etc - but it's very premature to see him as strictly LB.

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1 hour ago, georg013 said:

How are they jumping the gun? He has played exclusively at the linebacker position and the coaches have mentioned nothing about putting him out at safety. He isnt even a starter. I think there is a lot of wishful thinking going on here. He will be a solid player one day but right now he is clearly being over drafted. He is not a safety. He is a linebacker.

Lol

 

Put away your jump to conclusions mat. TC hasn't even started yet, much less the preseason.  Sheesh. 

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5 hours ago, saintfool said:

X2

I'm not rushing to judgment here. This is from a WaPo article about him in early June:

 

For me, this part in bold is the key. He's just learning the defense. He's going to get used, moved around in the end. I don't know think anyone has a handle on how he'll be used - what the positional snap counts are, etc - but it's very premature to see him as strictly LB.

Yes, I read that. I meant Roto was rushing to judgement. 

Wait til TC and see where he's playing then. This is a boring time of year and reporters have to write something even if it's just guesses. 

I've even seen him listed as LB and S here in the rankings.

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2 minutes ago, cr8f said:

Yes, I read that. I meant Roto was rushing to judgement. 

Wait til TC and see where he's playing then. This is a boring time of year and reporters have to write something even if it's just guesses. 

I've even seen him listed as LB and S here in the rankings.

 

I've seen that too. Here's the thing for me: consensus was among observers that he'd be S even if it was a specialized role. I'm sticking to that narrative unless shown otherwise. I think the reporting outside of the beat reporters is generally pretty lazy but especially this time of year. I'm not inclined to overreact when chatter mentions this kind of thing. OTAs are for experimentation so him getting some early reps at LB doesn't scare me much. In camp? Maybe. Preseason? Definitely. 

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On July 1, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Bronco Billy said:

Lol

 

Put away your jump to conclusions mat. TC hasn't even started yet, much less the preseason.  Sheesh. 

Sounds like Cravens is in the mix for the starting safety job in Washington. Silly me.

David Bruton - DB -  Redskins

CSN Mid-Atlantic reports David Bruton is getting the "first crack" at the Redskins' strong safety job.

Rich Tandler said Duke Ihenacho would have to be "clearly superior" in training camp to unseat Bruton, who started just eight games in his seven years with the Broncos. He does have a fourth-round pedigree, however, and showed well as a short stint as a starter before breaking his leg last season. DeAngelo Hall is locked in at free safety.

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he might be off the field for base packages but teams don't use base that much anyhow. he's expected to get a ton of snaps.

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2 hours ago, georg013 said:

Sounds like Cravens is in the mix for the starting safety job in Washington. Silly me.

David Bruton - DB -  Redskins

CSN Mid-Atlantic reports David Bruton is getting the "first crack" at the Redskins' strong safety job.

Rich Tandler said Duke Ihenacho would have to be "clearly superior" in training camp to unseat Bruton, who started just eight games in his seven years with the Broncos. He does have a fourth-round pedigree, however, and showed well as a short stint as a starter before breaking his leg last season. DeAngelo Hall is locked in at free safety.

Same comment as above. 

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I was surprised rotoworld listed him at LB when the team doesn't. Why not wait til TC and see where he's used? 

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On 7/2/2016 at 4:40 PM, cr8f said:

I was surprised rotoworld listed him at LB when the team doesn't. Why not wait til TC and see where he's used

That's exactly what they have done. 

Edited by Hankmoody

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