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Otis fad diet thread — yoga, fasting, and kevzilla walking on🚶‍♂️ (3 Viewers)

Otis said:
This is helpful.  I’ve struggled to figure out what range I should be gunning for, so I’ve settled into the 130s to low 140s as being the right range.  The online calculator and my Garmin watch all seem to put me somewhere in that range.  120s is too low; high 140s/150s seems too high.  But no idea what my max is.
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Just use the 220-age thing as an approx for someone that is up there in size.   

 
DA RAIDERS said:
Anyone want to cliff note the MAF, for me?  I went to the website and it wants me to fill out a grip of paperwork, get a weekly email, etc. 

thnks guys. 
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These are not cliff notes but i did a bunch of reading on this and can explain what i read. 

When your heart beats really fast, your body burns sugar (glycogen) to get energy to your muscles ASAP.  When it runs out it switches to fat, and you feel like crap.  

When your heart beats kinda fast, your body burns fat to get that energy instead.  

If you do your whole workout at "kinda fast" you won't bonk, you'll burn fat instead of carbs, and you'll improve your endurance.  

Before you get too excited, working out slower also means burning fewer calories, and it doesn't matter that you're burning fat instead of sugar because your body stores excess sugar as fat anyways.  But if you finish your workout without burning all that sugar, you don't feel crazy hungry afterwards. And being able to run/ bike/ row/swim longer makes up for the lower intensity so you can burn more calories. 

It can also help with race training.  If you get good at running slow for a long time, you get good at running for a long time.  So you can run fast for a long time without getting tired on race day.  

Your heart rate should stay around 135 depending on your age and conditioning. They recommend 180 minus your age, minus 5 if you're newer to cardio, and minus 10 if you have any heart condition or other physical reason to be safe with your heart rate.  As a 44 year old who has recently increased to running 5ks, I target 136 beats per minute. 

So wear a heart rate monitor, get on the treadmill and do a 5 minute warm up walk, then increase the speed very gradually.  It will feel really slow the first day, so start with a super light jog at like 4 mph, which is barely fast enough to "jog". Then if your heart rate doesn't get up to your target, increase to 4.2, 4.4, etc.

When you hit that target heart rate, you should feel like you're going really slow and could run that speed forever without getting tired.  So do it. If you normally run, run for your normal distance plus 10 percent.  If you don't, then run a half mile and see if your heart rate is still in that range, then switch to a fast walk. 

If you do that for a while you'll see that you can go a little faster and a little longer each time.  I went from 7-8mph without monitoring my heart rate, to a ridiculously slow 4.3 mph my first day of MAF, to 5.3 mph my third day.  Today is day four and I'm excited to see how it goes, and I'm recording it here so newbs like me can learn from it. 

 
bostonfred said:
These are not cliff notes but i did a bunch of reading on this and can explain what i read. 

When your heart beats really fast, your body burns sugar (glycogen) to get energy to your muscles ASAP.  When it runs out it switches to fat, and you feel like crap.  

When your heart beats kinda fast, your body burns fat to get that energy instead.  

If you do your whole workout at "kinda fast" you won't bonk, you'll burn fat instead of carbs, and you'll improve your endurance.  

Before you get too excited, working out slower also means burning fewer calories, and it doesn't matter that you're burning fat instead of sugar because your body stores excess sugar as fat anyways.  But if you finish your workout without burning all that sugar, you don't feel crazy hungry afterwards. And being able to run/ bike/ row/swim longer makes up for the lower intensity so you can burn more calories. 

It can also help with race training.  If you get good at running slow for a long time, you get good at running for a long time.  So you can run fast for a long time without getting tired on race day.  

Your heart rate should stay around 135 depending on your age and conditioning. They recommend 180 minus your age, minus 5 if you're newer to cardio, and minus 10 if you have any heart condition or other physical reason to be safe with your heart rate.  As a 44 year old who has recently increased to running 5ks, I target 136 beats per minute. 

So wear a heart rate monitor, get on the treadmill and do a 5 minute warm up walk, then increase the speed very gradually.  It will feel really slow the first day, so start with a super light jog at like 4 mph, which is barely fast enough to "jog". Then if your heart rate doesn't get up to your target, increase to 4.2, 4.4, etc.

When you hit that target heart rate, you should feel like you're going really slow and could run that speed forever without getting tired.  So do it. If you normally run, run for your normal distance plus 10 percent.  If you don't, then run a half mile and see if your heart rate is still in that range, then switch to a fast walk. 

If you do that for a while you'll see that you can go a little faster and a little longer each time.  I went from 7-8mph without monitoring my heart rate, to a ridiculously slow 4.3 mph my first day of MAF, to 5.3 mph my third day.  Today is day four and I'm excited to see how it goes, and I'm recording it here so newbs like me can learn from it. 
Click to expand...
This is a great summary.

I would only add that, much like the weight loss in this thread, you should expect to see differences in your times over weeks to months, not over just a few days. 

In other words, don't get frustrated or think it's not working if your time doesn't improve today or even over the next 2 weeks. I didn't start noticing changes until after a month.

 
Doesn't have to just apply to running -- Routines Matter

Part of what's leading to Otis's current success is getting up and rowing each morning and not just trying to squeeze it whenever it's convenient. 

 
Interesting. That’s a really mellow heart rate. I am definitely not doing anything remotely like MAF. I shoot for north of 150/beats per minute,  often times, my, hour long workouts are around 50%, above 150.  I’m usually, not too wiped out. And being hungry afterwards, is normal. Because I usually don’t eat before I work out.  Is MAF, primarily for weight loss?  Or increasing long distance cardio?  Neither are very needed in my case. 

Thanks for the cliff notes guys. 

 
DA RAIDERS said:
Interesting. That’s a really mellow heart rate. I am definitely not doing anything remotely like MAF. I shoot for north of 150/beats per minute,  often times, my, hour long workouts are around 50%, above 150.  I’m usually, not too wiped out. And being hungry afterwards, is normal. Because I usually don’t eat before I work out.  Is MAF, primarily for weight loss?  Or increasing long distance cardio?  Neither are very needed in my case. 

Thanks for the cliff notes guys. 
Click to expand...
It can be used for either/both purpose(s), others too. I don't think it's a one-size-fits-all though. Sure, physically I could do it and probably reap benefits. Mentally, I'm bored just thinking about it though. So even if it were aligned with my current goals I wouldn't be successful trying to incorporate it because of what's going on above my neck.

 
bostonfred said:
These are not cliff notes but i did a bunch of reading on this and can explain what i read. 

When your heart beats really fast, your body burns sugar (glycogen) to get energy to your muscles ASAP.  When it runs out it switches to fat, and you feel like crap.  

When your heart beats kinda fast, your body burns fat to get that energy instead.  

If you do your whole workout at "kinda fast" you won't bonk, you'll burn fat instead of carbs, and you'll improve your endurance.  

Before you get too excited, working out slower also means burning fewer calories, and it doesn't matter that you're burning fat instead of sugar because your body stores excess sugar as fat anyways.  But if you finish your workout without burning all that sugar, you don't feel crazy hungry afterwards. And being able to run/ bike/ row/swim longer makes up for the lower intensity so you can burn more calories. 

It can also help with race training.  If you get good at running slow for a long time, you get good at running for a long time.  So you can run fast for a long time without getting tired on race day.  

Your heart rate should stay around 135 depending on your age and conditioning. They recommend 180 minus your age, minus 5 if you're newer to cardio, and minus 10 if you have any heart condition or other physical reason to be safe with your heart rate.  As a 44 year old who has recently increased to running 5ks, I target 136 beats per minute. 

So wear a heart rate monitor, get on the treadmill and do a 5 minute warm up walk, then increase the speed very gradually.  It will feel really slow the first day, so start with a super light jog at like 4 mph, which is barely fast enough to "jog". Then if your heart rate doesn't get up to your target, increase to 4.2, 4.4, etc.

When you hit that target heart rate, you should feel like you're going really slow and could run that speed forever without getting tired.  So do it. If you normally run, run for your normal distance plus 10 percent.  If you don't, then run a half mile and see if your heart rate is still in that range, then switch to a fast walk. 

If you do that for a while you'll see that you can go a little faster and a little longer each time.  I went from 7-8mph without monitoring my heart rate, to a ridiculously slow 4.3 mph my first day of MAF, to 5.3 mph my third day.  Today is day four and I'm excited to see how it goes, and I'm recording it here so newbs like me can learn from it. 
Click to expand...
Along those lines, here's some personal experience on this:

Run from 9/20/19

Run from 1/23/20

To be fair, it hasn't been exclusive MAF training.  There's been an overall increase in volume in general and consistent training over some of that time.  But MAF training certainly played a role. 

 
DA RAIDERS said:
Interesting. That’s a really mellow heart rate. I am definitely not doing anything remotely like MAF. I shoot for north of 150/beats per minute,  often times, my, hour long workouts are around 50%, above 150.  I’m usually, not too wiped out. And being hungry afterwards, is normal. Because I usually don’t eat before I work out.  Is MAF, primarily for weight loss?  Or increasing long distance cardio?  Neither are very needed in my case. 

Thanks for the cliff notes guys. 
Click to expand...
As I understand it, it is also designed to increase your aerobic endurance (the ability of your body to exercise before switching over to anaerobic and needing to create energy as not enough oxygen can be taken in to create sufficient energy given level of activity).  

With my workouts I tend to do a split with some working aerobic and others anaerobic.  

 
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MAC_32 said:
It can be used for either/both purpose(s), others too. I don't think it's a one-size-fits-all though. Sure, physically I could do it and probably reap benefits. Mentally, I'm bored just thinking about it though. So even if it were aligned with my current goals I wouldn't be successful trying to incorporate it because of what's going on above my neck.
Click to expand...
this is me.  i can't imagine how tedious it must be.  i always wear a heart monitor, mostly for fun, just to see how hard i'm working out.  i also look at recovery times.  pretty cool stuff.  the other day, my lowest heartbeat, was 59.

 
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DA RAIDERS said:
Interesting. That’s a really mellow heart rate. I am definitely not doing anything remotely like MAF. I shoot for north of 150/beats per minute,  often times, my, hour long workouts are around 50%, above 150.  I’m usually, not too wiped out. And being hungry afterwards, is normal. Because I usually don’t eat before I work out.  Is MAF, primarily for weight loss?  Or increasing long distance cardio?  Neither are very needed in my case. 

Thanks for the cliff notes guys. 
Click to expand...
https://philmaffetone.com/want-speed-slow-down/

If your goal is speed, he talks about it here.  Skip to the charts at the bottom that show MAF time and race time,  and improvements over time by mile. 

There's also a good amount of testimonial from non believers who hated going slow at first but were converted when they saw the improvements.  

 
That MAF stuff is probably outside the scope of people trying to cut weight.  You can look at actual people that wear glucometers and know that the threshold to burning glucose is way lower than 135.  Yet the MAF studies never set out to do this.   Their goal is better speeds in long events.  

It's probably more realistic to use as a training model to promote proper recovery and limit training volume than some body recomp master plan.   

 
bostonfred said:
What do you do to get to 150 bpm heart rate?..
Click to expand...
i do all of these for at least 5 minutes.  run stairs(sometimes, like today, my knee won't allow it) elliptical at #10-13, walk at 3.7-3.9 at 10+ incline, weird ski machine at #15-18, versa climber(this is the hardest, heart rate will go into the 170's) step ups as quick as possible, in 60 second bursts.  mix in planks or some other ab work.   the elliptical is the easiest to maintain a constant 150-155 pace  i have done it for 30 minutes straight, where after 5 minutes, the last 25 was in that sweet spot.  :shrug:  

 
bostonfred said:
Day 3 of MAF running

Day 1 - 4.3 mph

Day 2 - 4.5

Day 3 - 5.3? 
Click to expand...
Day 4 - 5.7mph for the first 2 miles, slowed way down to 5.0 for the final 1.1. I am aiming for 136 bpm and crept up to 140 for a little bit before dropping down so my splits probably should have been more like 5.7, 5.5, 5.3 or something like that. 

Finding it a lot easier to finish my 5k and with something left in the tank for a final sprint. I was definitely trying too hard to run fast before.  

 
DA RAIDERS said:
i do all of these for at least 5 minutes.  run stairs(sometimes, like today, my knee won't allow it) elliptical at #10-13, walk at 3.7-3.9 at 10+ incline, weird ski machine at #15-18, versa climber(this is the hardest, heart rate will go into the 170's) step ups as quick as possible, in 60 second bursts.  mix in planks or some other ab work.   the elliptical is the easiest to maintain a constant 150-155 pace  i have done it for 30 minutes straight, where after 5 minutes, the last 25 was in that sweet spot.  :shrug:  
Click to expand...
Yeah i don't think this makes sense at all for you.  

 
DA RAIDERS said:
Curious, as to why you think this?  
Click to expand...
I'm brand new to this but it seems like the purpose is to build your aerobic basr and improve on it.  You sound like you've got a strong aerobic base with your elliptical work, you're avoiding a lot of other aerobic exercise and doing a lot of anaerobic and/or higher intensity stuff.  I am far from an expert but it sounds about as applicable to you as a HIIT kettlebell and cardio kick boxing program would be for me. It probably wouldn't hurt it's just not the direction I gravitate.  

 
eaganwildcats said:
Jan 28 Row 10k in 42:29 153 avg HR

Jan Total: 268,538

3 days to get 31K and change to hit 300K. Want to do an all out 2K so not sure it's going to happen, but we shall see. 
Click to expand...
Do the all out 2K on Saturday after you knock out 3 days of 10K each - then you can meet both goals.

 
bostonfred said:
I'm brand new to this but it seems like the purpose is to build your aerobic basr and improve on it.  You sound like you've got a strong aerobic base with your elliptical work, you're avoiding a lot of other aerobic exercise and doing a lot of anaerobic and/or higher intensity stuff.  I am far from an expert but it sounds about as applicable to you as a HIIT kettlebell and cardio kick boxing program would be for me. It probably wouldn't hurt it's just not the direction I gravitate.  
Click to expand...
I’m not doing MAF at all. I was just curious about it, since many of you are embracing it.  I have zero interest in running long distances  

If anything, my cardio is hiit. I want spikes in heart rate. And funny you should mention the kettlebell workout. I  do a super intense one, every Saturday. Love it. It’s incredibly hard. 

 
DA RAIDERS said:
I’m not doing MAF at all. I was just curious about it, since many of you are embracing it.  I have zero interest in running long distances  

If anything, my cardio is hiit. I want spikes in heart rate. And funny you should mention the kettlebell workout. I  do a super intense one, every Saturday. Love it. It’s incredibly hard. 
Click to expand...
Right.  That's why i said it's not a good fit for you. I'm curious about HIIT but i kind of hate it.  

 
bostonfred said:
Right.  That's why i said it's not a good fit for you. I'm curious about HIIT but i kind of hate it.  
Click to expand...
I’m a big fan of HIIT and use it often on my stationary bike.  It makes me work harder and makes my cardio time go by faster.   Often I’m dreading how fast the 2 minute recovery flies by and it’s time to pedal like crazy again.   Not saying it’s the best way to lose weight or get in shape but it’s a good way for me to make boring cardio somewhat interesting at times. 

 
Otis said:
@eaganwildcats do you have any issues at all with your ### and legs falling asleep?
Click to expand...
No but my %#% did hurt toward the end. My heart rate was also very high so I’m quite hungry tonight, but otherwise seem fine. I did have to pause a couple times to answer quick messages / move a meeting back - I think you have a minute before it gives up on you so maybe you just gotta get up and shake it out right quick. 

 
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eaganwildcats said:
No but my %#% did hurt toward the end. My heart rate was also very high so I’m quite hungry tonight, but otherwise seem fine. I did have to pause a couple times to answer quick messages / move a meeting back - I think you have a minute before it gives up on you so maybe you just gotta get up and shake it out right quick. 
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That’s what I’m thinking. I also have been experimenting with leaning towards my right side and shifting my weight onto the right cheek and rowing like that for a minute or so. Seems to help allow some of the blood flow back into my left leg and ease the numbing a little. But jumping up and standing for 30 or 40 seconds every now and then is probably the best medicine. 

 
Day 5 MAF 

Didn't get to the gym, so I used the treadmill at home.  My pace dropped to 5.3 to start, then down to 4.5mph by the end of 2 miles.  Didn't notice until partway through that my wife had left the incline up until around that point. Still, finished 5k of running in 38 minutes without stopping, did some warm up/cool down walking and kept my calories under target after a couple days going a little over.  

 
Otis said:
That’s what I’m thinking. I also have been experimenting with leaning towards my right side and shifting my weight onto the right cheek and rowing like that for a minute or so. Seems to help allow some of the blood flow back into my left leg and ease the numbing a little. But jumping up and standing for 30 or 40 seconds every now and then is probably the best medicine. 
Click to expand...
Be careful with that.  Best way to get a sports injury is to over compensate for some kind of discomfort, especially on a repetitive motion.  Get up and do a set of push ups. 

 
Since hitting my goal a couple of weeks ago, I've been insanely off the rails.  Yay.  :(  

There was a work trip involved, and tonight is my last day of this before being back on the good-eating-and-drinking bandwagon.  It's been kind of nice to have a lot of pizza and wine and more pizza and LOTS more wine, though.  Except waking up hungover a couple of times.  That has sucked, and I'm really happy not to do that again.  Do not regret all that pizza, however.

 
Four weeks in the books. Almost 10lbs lost! Daily number is still 32. My average last week was 16.9 (high was 23, low was 13.1). I think a pound a week is about the most I can hope for at this point. Gonna keep going for another couple weeks at least and see how it goes. Went out for dinner last night for the first time since I started (daughters birthday). That was tough, don't know how you traveling peeps do it. Had a salad w/ shrimp and fat-free honey mustard dressing (didnt eat the cheese) and 2 miller lites. It was edible, but seemed like such a waste to pay $15 for something I could've made much better at home. Daily yoga still going strong and still trying to either walk or ski 4-5 days a week. Onward and upward!

1/2 - 184.6 lbs

1/9 - 179.8 lbs

1/16 - 177.4 lbs

1/23 - 176.0 lbs

1/30 - 174.8 lbs

 
krista4 said:
Since hitting my goal a couple of weeks ago, I've been insanely off the rails.  Yay.  :(  

There was a work trip involved, and tonight is my last day of this before being back on the good-eating-and-drinking bandwagon.  It's been kind of nice to have a lot of pizza and wine and more pizza and LOTS more wine, though.  Except waking up hungover a couple of times.  That has sucked, and I'm really happy not to do that again.  Do not regret all that pizza, however.
Click to expand...
This is where you are tested.   It’s easy to throw your hands up and give up the positive results after going off track for a bit.   Life happens.   Don’t give up any more ground though.  

I don’t miss hangovers.  I will never understand why I did that to myself for so many years.   

 
bostonfred said:
Day 5 MAF 

Didn't get to the gym, so I used the treadmill at home.  My pace dropped to 5.3 to start, then down to 4.5mph by the end of 2 miles.  Didn't notice until partway through that my wife had left the incline up until around that point. Still, finished 5k of running in 38 minutes without stopping, did some warm up/cool down walking and kept my calories under target after a couple days going a little over.  
Click to expand...
Day 6 MAF

Back to the gym. First mile was 5.7 and i wasn't quite at 136 heart rate so i bumped it up to 6.0. Then promptly went up to 141.  Dropped back to 5.5 for most of the second mile, then 5.1 for most of the third.  Finished with a few minutes at 8.2mph which felt great, total time under 32 minutes for 5k although it would have been more like 33 if i hadn't finished fast. 

I really like this approach.  I feel like my endurance has gone up.  I've run 5k without stopping every day this week, and while I'm going slower overall, I'm getting close to the pace i was at before i started (sub 29 minutes, mostly 7-8mph with some walking)

I think I'm going to keep at this for a while until i have to take a rest day for whatever reason, and then the next day I'll treat it like a race to see what kind of time i can run. 

 
bostonfred said:
Day 6 MAF

Back to the gym. First mile was 5.7 and i wasn't quite at 136 heart rate so i bumped it up to 6.0. Then promptly went up to 141.  Dropped back to 5.5 for most of the second mile, then 5.1 for most of the third.  Finished with a few minutes at 8.2mph which felt great, total time under 32 minutes for 5k although it would have been more like 33 if i hadn't finished fast. 

I really like this approach.  I feel like my endurance has gone up.  I've run 5k without stopping every day this week, and while I'm going slower overall, I'm getting close to the pace i was at before i started (sub 29 minutes, mostly 7-8mph with some walking)

I think I'm going to keep at this for a while until i have to take a rest day for whatever reason, and then the next day I'll treat it like a race to see what kind of time i can run. 
Click to expand...
Might I suggest cutting out the fast finish and not stopping at 5K.  Get a run up to 4 or even 5 miles.  You'll improve even more with longer times.  Shoot for 45-60 minutes if you can.

 
1/21/20 - 192
1/28/20 - 183

Included 5 days of low carb to jump start things.   Actually felt pretty good after a first day of side effects.    Back to not counting the carbs but eating healthy.   Nice weather allowed me to do about 10 miles of hiking between Saturday and Tuesday.

Bad news is the inevitable injury.  Soreness in the left foot keeping me inactive for a few days.  Hopefully, I can remain stable this week with the "big game" yet to come.

MFA, in principle, appears to be something I've practiced for years.  Long ago I read a cycling article about professional riders that try to log 1,000 flat miles to start the season.  Building this "base" was to develop your capillary system and increase blood circulation.  I can't tell you how many times I've had some yahoo fly by me trying to coax me into a race early in the season.  No sprints... no big hill climbs... just slow and steady miles.

 
eaganwildcats said:
Jan 30 Row: 6,640 in 30:00. Nice little recovery after the half marathon yesterday.

Jan Total: 296,275 

Nice n easy 3,750 tomorrow and I'll be 31/31 & 300K. 

@Otis where you at?
Click to expand...
Hey GB, rough few days here at Casa de Otis, involving kids with the flu and the stomach bug, all of which has disrupted my 5am hour.  So, this will be the third (!) day in a row without a workout, unless I can get something in this evening.  But not to worry, I'm staying fully on the wagon -- no booze, other than a Bud Select 55 last night, and no junk food.  Staying the course.  This weekend I'll have the chance for a couple of great rows.

You making 300k in January is totally sick.  Congrats man.  I'm just glad to have broken 200k.  I'm thinking I'd like to set a goal of 250k for February, though I'll be on vacation for a week with the family without the time or access to row, so it may not be realistic.  But anyway, I'm not going anywhere -- I'll be back to rowing momentarily.

Oats

 
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Had a lot going on this week and missed 2 days of exercise.  Add on a birthday celebration, but limited to 1 piece of cake. Still manages to lose 2 pounds.  Just convinces me more that eating right and exercising most of the time with a few slip ups can still result in a positive outcome.  Don’t use 1 misstep for an excuse to go off the rails!

1/1 - 257.7

1/31 246.8

-2 lb. this week. 

 
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