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Otis fad diet thread — Fred is stir crazy and picking a fight with the running nerds in the 10k thread. GREAT. UPDATE: feeling confident

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Going to be doing Weight Watchers again. They switched it up where you have 3 options for points now.  

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1 hour ago, ragincajun said:

Going to be doing Weight Watchers again. They switched it up where you have 3 options for points now.  

I don't understand weight watchers.  The points thing seems like fake science - how can you have unlimited grilled chicken and lose weight?   I get the meetings/weigh ins and i can see how paying for it makes you more likely to follow it but the whole thing has always seemed scammy to me. But it sounds like it worked for you before and it's worked for a ton of people.. would love to hear your experience and why you would go back to it.  

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You can't have unlimited grilled chicken

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Down an unsustainable 5 lbs in 5 days. Love the first week. Hoping there's still a little water weight or a krista sized poop left in me because I've got 8 weeks left to lose 18.4 lbs. But that's a lot more manageable than 23.4 in 8.5 weeks. 

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Just now, belljr said:

You can't have unlimited grilled chicken

I thought that was a zero point food

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Just now, bostonfred said:

I thought that was a zero point food

Nope. Not for me

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3 minutes ago, belljr said:

It's 2 points for 3 oz for me

That's for the blue plan. They have different food plans

Right so what does that mean?  Like how is it that one group can eat unlimited grilled chicken but the other can only eat a little?  And how does that translate to calories? 

3 ounces of grilled chicken is about 140 calories, and for you it's 2 points.  If a point is 70 calories then you should get about 22 points a day assuming you're inactive. Is that about right?  Is a 4 oz hamburger (200 calories with no bun) about 3 points?

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23 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

I don't understand weight watchers.  The points thing seems like fake science - how can you have unlimited grilled chicken and lose weight?   I get the meetings/weigh ins and i can see how paying for it makes you more likely to follow it but the whole thing has always seemed scammy to me. But it sounds like it worked for you before and it's worked for a ton of people.. would love to hear your experience and why you would go back to it.  

Try eating unlimited grilled chicken.   I dare you.

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Starting IF again tomorrow. Gonna do the 16/8 lean gains version for awhile. 

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2 hours ago, ragincajun said:

Going to be doing Weight Watchers again. They switched it up where you have 3 options for points now.  

Good for you; works great for so many people.  There was only one plan when I started in September, which migrated to being "blue" when they switched to three plans.  I've been hesitant to switch to a different one since "blue" has worked well for me, but I wonder, if you're just starting, how are you deciding which one to choose?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, NutterButter said:

Try eating unlimited grilled chicken.   I dare you.

Yeah, that's exactly the idea.  These types of zero-point foods are zero because of the belief (which seems to be true) that you get full on them quickly and therefore can't eat a ton of calories from them.

Edited by krista4
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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

Right so what does that mean?  Like how is it that one group can eat unlimited grilled chicken but the other can only eat a little?  And how does that translate to calories? 

3 ounces of grilled chicken is about 140 calories, and for you it's 2 points.  If a point is 70 calories then you should get about 22 points a day assuming you're inactive. Is that about right?  Is a 4 oz hamburger (200 calories with no bun) about 3 points?

Depends upon the fat content.  90/10 ground beef is 4 points for 3 oz, if you don't cook it up in anything.  95/5 ground beef is 3 points for the same.

Edited by krista4
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Starting up the IF tomorrow. Gonna do one daysl this week with no breakfast. Then two days next week with no breakfast. Week 3 one day no breakfast or lunch and one day no breakfast. Then week 4, two days, no breakfast or lunch.  I think that's the 5/2 plan, right?

I've only dabbled in IF before, so I'll try and update as I go.

Currently 189 lbs. and never been fatter. I'd like to get back to 170 lbs.

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Jan 5: 12,499 

Jan Total: 52,076

Had to make up for my nervous binge eating during the vikes game. Worth it.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, bostonfred said:

Right so what does that mean?  Like how is it that one group can eat unlimited grilled chicken but the other can only eat a little?  And how does that translate to calories? 

3 ounces of grilled chicken is about 140 calories, and for you it's 2 points.  If a point is 70 calories then you should get about 22 points a day assuming you're inactive. Is that about right?  Is a 4 oz hamburger (200 calories with no bun) about 3 points?

But it is plan grilled chicken breast with no skin or fat. You put sauce on it and that is worth points. As someone said, try eating plan grilled chicken breast all the time. 
 

Also, each plan is different. I do the one with the most points but least zero point foods. You do the one with a lot of zero point foods you get very few points. Reason I picked that plan is I basically eat lunch out everyday at work so having more points works for me as it is tough to stick to zero point foods in my situation. 

Edited by Redwes25
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Posted (edited)

Rowtis Stats

Jan 6 Row: 10k in 46:24 (MAF-ish); Burned 785 calories, Avg HR 137, max 162

January total: 43,044m

My times are suffering, probably overdoing it a little and could use a day off.  But up in the 4's today and knocked out a 10k.

According to Garmin and my VO2 Max stats, which supposedly are "an indication of your cardiovascular fitness":

"Your Fitness Age is 26.  That's the top 30% for your age and gender."

BOOM

 

Edited by Otis
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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, eaganwildcats said:

Jan 5: 12,499 

Jan Total: 52,076

Had to make up for my nervous binge eating during the vikes game. Worth it.

It seems the only way I have a prayer of catching you is to do a 20k at some point (actually, two days this month), and take no days off.  That said you'd probably just match my 20k later those same days.

Edited by Otis
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1 hour ago, Otis said:

It seems the only way I have a prayer of catching you is to do a 20k at some point (actually, two days this month), and take no days off.  That said you'd probably just match my 20k later those same days.

I am pleased with your confidence that I will never miss a day. 

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10 hours ago, krista4 said:

Good for you; works great for so many people.  There was only one plan when I started in September, which migrated to being "blue" when they switched to three plans.  I've been hesitant to switch to a different one since "blue" has worked well for me, but I wonder, if you're just starting, how are you deciding which one to choose?

I choose to start with green.  I am going to see how this week goes and adjust to blue, purple, or stay put.

So the whole point thing is a mystery to me still however it’s worked for me in the past.  One thing is that I can have whole fruit for zero points, but I heard if I though it in the Vitamix to make a smoothie then it is worth points then?

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9 hours ago, Redwes25 said:

But it is plan grilled chicken breast with no skin or fat. You put sauce on it and that is worth points. As someone said, try eating plan grilled chicken breast all the time. 
 

Also, each plan is different. I do the one with the most points but least zero point foods. You do the one with a lot of zero point foods you get very few points. Reason I picked that plan is I basically eat lunch out everyday at work so having more points works for me as it is tough to stick to zero point foods in my situation. 

Thanks - the idea of three plans finally makes sense to me. It seemed weird for two plans to have a different number of points for the same food but if you start with a different number of points that makes sense. 

 

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10 hours ago, krista4 said:

Depends upon the fat content.  90/10 ground beef is 4 points for 3 oz, if you don't cook it up in anything.  95/5 ground beef is 3 points for the same.

This is the part that still confuses me. I thought the whole advantage of points over calorie counting was that you didn't need to track the nitty gritty details like the fat content of the beef in your burger.  I don't understand the advantage of paying weight watchers to track points instead of using a free app to track calories if you have to look up your foods either way.  

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I get 38 daily points.

I don't track fat or calories. I mean I can scan or manually enter stuff if need be but 95% of the time the food item is in the database I just select it. I don't see what calories or fat I'm eating for the day.  The only time is if I manually enter something. It uses that to calculate. Which I've done one time.

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In Dec 2018 i was ~225 and got all the way down to my goal weight of 199.  I was pretty much able to stay there all year (between 198 and 202 mostly) but after Thanksgiving I was typically between 200 and 204.  I hoped to get to 199 on 1/1/20 even though I knew that would be difficult and I didn't make it (202).  Then we had a family member visit for a week starting on 1/1/20 and leaving yesterday - let's just say it wasn't a good week with all the eating out and drinking, but it was fun.  Yesterday I weighed  in at 207 :bag: 

Anyway, I'm hoping to get to 190 (per BMI I need to get to 194 to no longer be fat :lol: ).  Gonna go back to the lower carb diet that worked for me last year (between 50 and 100 grams per day).  Also need to cut back on the drinking and I'm probably going to join the dry February group this year.

So I'm starting at 207 on 1/5/20 - let's do this :thumbup:

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Posted (edited)

Down 3 lbs last week which was a pleasant surprise. Total weight loss of 11 lbs in 5 weeks, which included all the holidays. Very happy with results so far. 

Edited by Redwes25
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OK, here we go.  Eating healthy, logging everything, under 2000 calories a day to start and will ramp down as the weight comes off. Sticking with my standard 2-3 days a week of weight training and adding in 2-3 days light cardio for now. Haven't had any alcohol since Dec 30th and plan to keep it that way for a while.

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48 minutes ago, Steeler said:

In Dec 2018 i was ~225 and got all the way down to my goal weight of 199.  I was pretty much able to stay there all year (between 198 and 202 mostly) but after Thanksgiving I was typically between 200 and 204.  I hoped to get to 199 on 1/1/20 even though I knew that would be difficult and I didn't make it (202).  Then we had a family member visit for a week starting on 1/1/20 and leaving yesterday - let's just say it wasn't a good week with all the eating out and drinking, but it was fun.  Yesterday I weighed  in at 207 :bag: 

Anyway, I'm hoping to get to 190 (per BMI I need to get to 194 to no longer be fat :lol: ).  Gonna go back to the lower carb diet that worked for me last year (between 50 and 100 grams per day).  Also need to cut back on the drinking and I'm probably going to join the dry February group this year.

So I'm starting at 207 on 1/5/20 - let's do this :thumbup:

Re-weigh yourself at the end of the week for a more accurate starting point. It'll be a few days before all that bloat works itself out, so any measure between the 1st and then is flawed. I'm going to do my first weigh-in since mid December on Wednesday, but that's because my diet's been relatively clean since the 2nd. 6 days should be enough for all that water weight to subside.

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2 hours ago, bostonfred said:

Thanks - the idea of three plans finally makes sense to me. It seemed weird for two plans to have a different number of points for the same food but if you start with a different number of points that makes sense. 

 

I looked briefly at WW and I "think" the difference between the 3 plans is the type of diet you're on. Two of them looked very similar (calorie-based) except one was strict counting (everything has a value) and the other was more liberal counting (zero point foods - eat as much as you want). The third option looked more keto/carb restriction based (which makes sense why they have different values for the same foods).

I went with ITrackBites which is a free, calorie-based WW knock-off where everything counts except fruits/veggies (mainly because my wife used it so she help me when I have questions). 5 days in so far and I've stayed well below my 34 point daily limit every day. Hasn't been easy or fun at all so far. :thumbdown: I'll be doing my weekly weigh-in on Thursdays. This is a "maintenance diet" for me. My goal is to last 6 weeks staying under my 34 point daily limit (no weight-related goals). 

So far, I've been pretty much eating as low-point as possible during the day so I can still have some drinks at night. Yesterday I had 5 beers (Dogfish Slightly Mighty IPA - 2.8 points each) during the Eagles game and still only had 28.6 points for the day. :banned:

Finding out a lot about what prepared foods/recipes are good and which are a waste of time. I'll share my reviews on what I like and dont like later.

Good luck to all my fellow fatties!  

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49 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Re-weigh yourself at the end of the week for a more accurate starting point.

Absolutely.  But I want to see that I have "lost" 5 pounds the first week :lol:  

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2 hours ago, bostonfred said:

This is the part that still confuses me. I thought the whole advantage of points over calorie counting was that you didn't need to track the nitty gritty details like the fat content of the beef in your burger.  I don't understand the advantage of paying weight watchers to track points instead of using a free app to track calories if you have to look up your foods either way.  

To answer your prior question, I typed “ground b” in the app and it came up with options, two of which I posted for you.  If I had store-bought ground beef, I’d have simply used the bar code scanner instead.  There’s nothing hard about any of that.

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Did well this week starting Weight Watcher again and initially it was tough cutting out the junk, but after a week it is getting easier.  I am trying the Purple plan but I am skeptical of the additional carbs allowed.  I may go back to the blue if this doesn't show the desired results.

Also walk / ran every day for 40-60 minutes.  Trying to adhere to the MAF plan that has been explained in here and that allows me to go longer than in the past.  I am anxious to see if my speed improves in the long run.

Starting Weight 1/1 - 257

Current Weight - 254

Even though I hit 252 at one point I am happy with losing 3 pounds to kick off the new year.

 

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15 minutes ago, E-Z Glider said:

Hasn't been easy or fun at all so far. :thumbdown:

Then you may want to consider something else. 'Not fun' is usually correlated with not sustainable, so you're more likely to end up like the 90% and get to 1/1/21 in a similar state as 1/120.

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2 hours ago, ragincajun said:

I choose to start with green.  I am going to see how this week goes and adjust to blue, purple, or stay put.

So the whole point thing is a mystery to me still however it’s worked for me in the past.  One thing is that I can have whole fruit for zero points, but I heard if I though it in the Vitamix to make a smoothie then it is worth points then?

There’s an article on the app about why smoothies have points but raw fruits don’t.  Ah, here it is:  I haven’t read this so don’t vouch for it.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Then you may want to consider something else. 'Not fun' is usually correlated with not sustainable, so you're more likely to end up like the 90% and get to 1/1/21 in a similar state as 1/120.

Agree, but I'm only looking to last 6 weeks. Not making a lifestyle change. I generally lose 5lbs every Jan/Feb and then slowly gain it back throughout the year. Been hovering between 175-185 for the past 25 years.

ETA - I think if I had no desire to drink alcohol, I could pretty easily/comfortably stay below the 34 points each day.

Edited by E-Z Glider
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1 hour ago, krista4 said:

To answer your prior question, I typed “ground b” in the app and it came up with options, two of which I posted for you.  If I had store-bought ground beef, I’d have simply used the bar code scanner instead.  There’s nothing hard about any of that.

It's not that ww sounds hard, it's that with myfitnesspal (or other free apps) I can do the same thing just as easily.  

I'm not trying to crap on weight watchers, because it obviously works for some people.  I'm just trying to understand the value-add because it's so popular and apparently successful but relatively expensive. 

I track everything i eat. You track everything you eat. 

I have a clear and obvious goal each day in calories.  You have a clear and obvious goal each day in points. 

I post here and talk to friends about it.  You post here and talk to friends about it.  

The differences I see are

Points are more intuitive for some of you.  I track my exercise against my calories.  You don't keep track of exercise (?).  I track my fat/sodium/sugar. You only track points, but the points are more complicated than i realized (2.8 points for a beer? There's decimals?)

Social aspect - I don't have ww meetings or weigh ins with a company, but i do have my friend as a myfitnesspal buddy and we can see each other's workouts, days staying under our calorie goal, consecutive days logged in streaks, and weight lost if we want each other to see that.  

Side by side I don't think it's for me so I'm wondering whether i should be evangelizing myfitnesspal more or trying to learn more about ww for myself.  

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

It's not that ww sounds hard, it's that with myfitnesspal (or other free apps) I can do the same thing just as easily.  

I'm not trying to crap on weight watchers, because it obviously works for some people.  I'm just trying to understand the value-add because it's so popular and apparently successful but relatively expensive. 

I track everything i eat. You track everything you eat. 

I have a clear and obvious goal each day in calories.  You have a clear and obvious goal each day in points. 

I post here and talk to friends about it.  You post here and talk to friends about it.  

The differences I see are

Points are more intuitive for some of you.  I track my exercise against my calories.  You don't keep track of exercise (?).  I track my fat/sodium/sugar. You only track points, but the points are more complicated than i realized (2.8 points for a beer? There's decimals?)

Social aspect - I don't have ww meetings or weigh ins with a company, but i do have my friend as a myfitnesspal buddy and we can see each other's workouts, days staying under our calorie goal, consecutive days logged in streaks, and weight lost if we want each other to see that.  

Side by side I don't think it's for me so I'm wondering whether i should be evangelizing myfitnesspal more or trying to learn more about ww for myself.  

Setting ITrackBites to decimals is an optional setting. Seemed better than rounding up or down to me. A gained a whole point for the day by counting 2.8 instead of 3 for each beer!

The biggest difference I see between an app or counting calories/fat/sugar etc yourself, is the ease of entering data. If it has a barcode, you just scan it and then set the amount. So for lunch tody, I had fake spaghetti and meatballs. I just scanned in the barcode of the pasta sauce and put the amount to 1/3 cup and it automatically tracks it as 1.6 points. Scan in the the fake pasta and set the amount to 4oz (which is half a pack) and its 0.3 points. Scan in the lowfat parm, set it at 2 tsp and its .5 points. Each meatball is 1pt (I had 2), so my whole lunch was 4.4 points. It becomes even easier once you start eating the same things and have them saved into your favorites.

I thought I would hate tracking, but I actually like that part of it. Keeps you very accountable, lets you know exactly where you're at during the day (and how much you have left), and allows you to compare how you did versus previous days.

Edited by E-Z Glider

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, bostonfred said:

It's not that ww sounds hard, it's that with myfitnesspal (or other free apps) I can do the same thing just as easily.  

I'm not trying to crap on weight watchers, because it obviously works for some people.  I'm just trying to understand the value-add because it's so popular and apparently successful but relatively expensive. 

I track everything i eat. You track everything you eat. 

I have a clear and obvious goal each day in calories.  You have a clear and obvious goal each day in points. 

I post here and talk to friends about it.  You post here and talk to friends about it.  

The differences I see are

Points are more intuitive for some of you.  I track my exercise against my calories.  You don't keep track of exercise (?).  I track my fat/sodium/sugar. You only track points, but the points are more complicated than i realized (2.8 points for a beer? There's decimals?)

Social aspect - I don't have ww meetings or weigh ins with a company, but i do have my friend as a myfitnesspal buddy and we can see each other's workouts, days staying under our calorie goal, consecutive days logged in streaks, and weight lost if we want each other to see that.  

Side by side I don't think it's for me so I'm wondering whether i should be evangelizing myfitnesspal more or trying to learn more about ww for myself.  

Yeah, I’ve no interest in convincing you or anyone.  Perhaps someone else will.

I’ll just correct a few misinterpretations.  First, no, there are not decimals.  Second, maybe the social aspect is good for some, but I would never ever go to a meeting nor a public weigh in.  Third, it seems you’re tracking four things at least(?) (calories, fat, sodium, sugar), while I track one - points.  The calculation of points takes into account calories, fat, sugar, and protein already, so I don’t have to track those.  Finally, my WW app does track activity for me, but I don’t use those activity points to gain extra food points.  Many people do, and I know you do as part of your program as well.

I did MFP many years ago but not for long.  I didn’t really need to lose weight then like I did now, so tracking was a drag.  It certainly might work for me as well as WW, but I’ve no reason to find out at this point.

As a last point, it seems odd for you to say you’re not “crapping on” WW when your first post from yesterday stated you think it’s “scammy” and “fake science.” ;) 

Edited by krista4

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On 12/30/2019 at 12:14 PM, krista4 said:

12/30:  +0.6 lbs

Total through 16 weeks:  -31.6 lbs

Meh, I'll take it, after eating all the food, drinking all the wine, and doing none of the working out.  Speaking of which, I fell off the Tecumseh 100-day challenge on 12/26, though for good reason as I had to get up at 3:30 that morning, go to the airport, fly across the country, and then was hit with my whole family (and a lot of pizza) the moment I got to Louisville.  Literally zero time to fit in any workout, and I don't feel that I can count my run through the entirety of the Minneapolis airport to make my connection.  For good measure, since I'd already blown the challenge, I didn't do any activity on 12/27 either.  :)  Back to it now.

Speaking of which...

1/6:  -2.4 lbs

Total through 17 weeks:  -34.0 lbs

Should hit my goal (37 lbs) in the next couple of weeks.

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1 hour ago, bostonfred said:

It's not that ww sounds hard, it's that with myfitnesspal (or other free apps) I can do the same thing just as easily.  

I'm not trying to crap on weight watchers, because it obviously works for some people.  I'm just trying to understand the value-add because it's so popular and apparently successful but relatively expensive. 

I track everything i eat. You track everything you eat. 

I have a clear and obvious goal each day in calories.  You have a clear and obvious goal each day in points. 

I post here and talk to friends about it.  You post here and talk to friends about it.  

The differences I see are

Points are more intuitive for some of you.  I track my exercise against my calories.  You don't keep track of exercise (?).  I track my fat/sodium/sugar. You only track points, but the points are more complicated than i realized (2.8 points for a beer? There's decimals?)

Social aspect - I don't have ww meetings or weigh ins with a company, but i do have my friend as a myfitnesspal buddy and we can see each other's workouts, days staying under our calorie goal, consecutive days logged in streaks, and weight lost if we want each other to see that.  

Side by side I don't think it's for me so I'm wondering whether i should be evangelizing myfitnesspal more or trying to learn more about ww for myself.  

WW is buying the satiety science.   It's not that hard to see their angle.  I am curious where they place foods like potatoes across the different plans. 

They also might be crediting thermic effect.  Which is controversial for restriction diets.  If so I would be less likely to select that except for maintenance.  

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, culdeus said:

WW is buying the satiety science.   It's not that hard to see their angle.  I am curious where they place foods like potatoes across the different plans. 

Yes, absolutely.

Regarding potatoes, on the plan where you get the fewest daily/weekly points, potatoes are a zero point food.  On my plan, which is the “middle one,” a medium, plain baked potato would cost me 21-22% of my daily points, or about 18.5% if you add the weeklies equally spread out over each day.  Not sure about the third plan.

ETA:  Of course for a dude or bigger person, that potato would account for a smaller percentage.

Edited by krista4

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2 hours ago, krista4 said:

There’s an article on the app about why smoothies have points but raw fruits don’t.  Ah, here it is:  I haven’t read this so don’t vouch for it.

They are all in on the satiety science.  When did this happen?   

If they are all in on that they need to recognize perhaps the differences in Fructose and Glucose uptake, which will add needless complexity.  I would have left the fruits as counting in all plans tbh.  

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Ww is 10/20 a month?   I don't do anything related to meetings message boards coaching.

Other than posting here.

You can choose to track excercise or not. I track it but choose to not count it against my budget others do 

With ww I select bacon and the amount and am done.  

I've done mfp before and it works great but to me was a little bit "more work"; tracking calories plus the other fat/protein/sugars etc.

If just doing cico it's fine.

Ww just feels easier to track :shrug:

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2 minutes ago, krista4 said:

Yes, absolutely.

Regarding potatoes, on the plan where you get the fewest daily/weekly points, potatoes are a zero point food.  On my plan, which is the “middle one,” a medium, plain baked potato would cost me 21-22% of my daily points, or about 18.5% if you add the weeklies equally spread out over each day.  Not sure about the third plan.

ETA:  Of course for a dude or bigger person, that potato would account for a smaller percentage.

I mean there are no longitudinal studies of this approach.  This is absolutely all-in if they are going this route.  I think the science is very iffy for people on a restriction.  I've been dabbling in this approach to do a lean gain.  Eating as much high S food as I can possibly stomach.  

You can see where approaches differed 

https://imgur.com/a/5huXcgI

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4 minutes ago, culdeus said:

They are all in on the satiety science.  When did this happen?   

If they are all in on that they need to recognize perhaps the differences in Fructose and Glucose uptake, which will add needless complexity.  I would have left the fruits as counting in all plans tbh.  

The fruits are what I find most befuddling, especially bananas and pineapple.  On the vegetable side I’m surprised corn is zero points.

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3 minutes ago, culdeus said:

I mean there are no longitudinal studies of this approach.  This is absolutely all-in if they are going this route.  I think the science is very iffy for people on a restriction.  I've been dabbling in this approach to do a lean gain.  Eating as much high S food as I can possibly stomach.  

You can see where approaches differed 

https://imgur.com/a/5huXcgI

It was a very recent change for them to go to the three options for plans.  Before a month or two ago, the only option was the plan I’m using. It will be interesting to see how that goes.

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3 minutes ago, krista4 said:

The fruits are what I find most befuddling, especially bananas and pineapple.  On the vegetable side I’m surprised corn is zero points.

Corn has sucrose in raw form.  The fructose they make syrup out of is not what you get your calories from eating a cob.  

As it is it's pretty minor content.  This probably goes back their net carb philosophy in zeroeing it 

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2 minutes ago, krista4 said:

It was a very recent change for them to go to the three options for plans.  Before a month or two ago, the only option was the plan I’m using. It will be interesting to see how that goes.

Well I'm trying to mini-max their blue plan then.  Had no idea.  Trying to get to 185 from 171 without looking like I did the last time I hit 185.

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