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Otis fad diet thread — yoga, fasting, and kevzilla walking on🚶♂️ (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter Otis
- Start date
Otis
Footballguy
After my 10k row this morning, went out to Mexican with the family for lunch. Had some chips and salsa; fish tacos; a few of my daughter’s chicken fingers. No booze. No McFlurry despite picking them up for the girls (they’re like crack those things). Still, kind of a decent sized meal soooo.....
Rowtis Stats
Jan 25 Row #2 of the day: 10,074 MAF (45:06; avg. HR 140; 676 cals)
January total: 177,091
Boom. 20k day.
Rowtis Stats
Jan 25 Row #2 of the day: 10,074 MAF (45:06; avg. HR 140; 676 cals)
January total: 177,091
Boom. 20k day.
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eaganwildcats
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
I got a heart rate monitor and decided to try MAF. Wtf. I have apparently been exercising all wrong. The good news is i was able to run for 40 plus minutes without stopping. The bad news is it took that long to complete the 5k i was previously doing in under 29 minutes. Apparently that's the same kind of complaint everyone has when they start so I'm ok with just trusting the process if it works for people but man that was humbling.
gianmarco
Footballguy
When I first tried it this past summer, it was incredibly humbling. I never had to run slower than a 10:30ish pace even when I first started a couple years ago. Most of my easy runs were in the 9s.
I was running 11 and 12 minute miles to start to keep my HR at 140 or below. I'm now in the 9s and low 10s at the same HR. It takes some patience but it can make a difference.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Do you run that speed every time or do you ever run at full speed?
Like i can see this being great for solving my endurance issues but I worked hard to get to the point i was at and hate to give it up just because some dude whose last name starts with Maf came up with something that had the acronym MAF in the 80s.
gianmarco
Footballguy
I did it for 90-95% of my runs for 3 months starting last July. Ran a race in November doing virtually no speed work and did fine for my fitness level at the time.
You won't undo what you've accomplished so far. You will just add to it.
eaganwildcats
Footballguy
Jan 25 Row: 10k in 43:22 142 avg HR
Jan Total: 238,538
BONUS ROUND: Wife came downstairs and we did T25 Total Body Circuit. That was humbling but adds another 30 mins at 144 avg HR.
ETA: ow
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msommer
Footballguy
Otis
Footballguy
I hear you. I was also wicked sore and spent last night, and definitely feeling it this morning. Double workouts FTW!
Otis
Footballguy
@eaganwildcats - question for you and the other RowerGuys:
I noticed yesterday when I'm at the catch with my knees fully bent, my right knee is like an inch higher than my left knee. I'm assuming that means my right femur is a little longer than my left, which I understand is normal after some of teh googlez. Anyone else have this issue? I wonder if it's somehow causing the numbness on my left side, and I also wonder if it has some impact on my drive (i.e., is one leg doing more work than the other, or contributing force into the stroke before the other, etc.). Relatedly, I also noticed then when I'm all the way back down the slide with legs fully extended, the chain isn't directly straight down the middle of the slide--it actually seems I am veering off a little to the left as I'm pulling the chain. Again, don't know if any of this is bad, or a who cares, or if it's related to half my body falling asleep on the long rows, but figured I'd put it out there because it's the first time I'm noticing it.
I noticed yesterday when I'm at the catch with my knees fully bent, my right knee is like an inch higher than my left knee. I'm assuming that means my right femur is a little longer than my left, which I understand is normal after some of teh googlez. Anyone else have this issue? I wonder if it's somehow causing the numbness on my left side, and I also wonder if it has some impact on my drive (i.e., is one leg doing more work than the other, or contributing force into the stroke before the other, etc.). Relatedly, I also noticed then when I'm all the way back down the slide with legs fully extended, the chain isn't directly straight down the middle of the slide--it actually seems I am veering off a little to the left as I'm pulling the chain. Again, don't know if any of this is bad, or a who cares, or if it's related to half my body falling asleep on the long rows, but figured I'd put it out there because it's the first time I'm noticing it.
xulf
Footballguy
The Flying Turtle
Footballguy
I ran a 5k last year in about 28:00.
I started MAF on January 5 and averaged a 14:27/mile pace for the first 3 miles. Yesterday I averaged 12:57. Hopefully it will continue at this rate and I will be back under 10:00 by summer.
eaganwildcats
Footballguy
I love not feeling totally wiped after the workout. Also not having to wait forever to cool down before showering. Also not feeling like I do this morning. Stupid Shaun T smh.
gianmarco
Footballguy
That was my favorite part. Training in July here in 90+ degrees, I could run 7-8 miles, come home and feel like I just walked to my mailbox. Stopped sweating in 5 minutes whereas normally it would take 30-45 minutes to cool down.
gianmarco
Footballguy
This x 1000. Just posted the same. I'd have to wait half hour before showering or else I'd come out and still sweat. Doing MAF, I'd be done in 5 minutes tops.
bostonfred
Footballguy
https://www.mountelizabeth.com.sg/healthplus/article/fat-burning-zone-heart-rate-to-lose-fat
It seems like there's a bunch of articles that say maf is good, others that say that the "fat burning zone" is good, and others like the one above that say that the fat burning zone is kind of fake science because while it's true that lower heartrate workouts lead to burning existing fat earlier in the workout, higher intensity workouts dip into your fat reserves as soon as you're out of carbs, and they burn more total calories, and lower intensity workouts just mean you have to work out longer to burn the same amount of calories.
I am confused.
It seems like there's a bunch of articles that say maf is good, others that say that the "fat burning zone" is good, and others like the one above that say that the fat burning zone is kind of fake science because while it's true that lower heartrate workouts lead to burning existing fat earlier in the workout, higher intensity workouts dip into your fat reserves as soon as you're out of carbs, and they burn more total calories, and lower intensity workouts just mean you have to work out longer to burn the same amount of calories.
I am confused.
gianmarco
Footballguy
I can only speak from my own experience, but I dropped almost 15 pounds in about 3 months doing this. I was at a constant 200-205 for the last 2 years with running 4-5x/week. Changed nothing except focusing on MAF.
I forgot to mention above the second huge benefit in that my appetite decreased despite running longer/more often. The subsequent weight loss was "easy".
I'm currently running more than I have ever before and I'm only averaging a few beats faster per minute with my HR, but definitely above my MAF, and my appetite is back up to being ravenous to feed my exercise. Weight back up a little around 195 but I can't get it back down despite 2 months of increased exercise. My weight loss shifted after I stopped MAF training.
That's ok right now because it's not my focus, but there was a huge, discernible difference in appetite between MAF and non-MAF training. I will add that I could go out and run for 2 hours in the morning after fasting since dinner and not feel hungry or tired when done. I can't do that now. I need to fuel before doing anything over 90 minutes.
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Otis
Footballguy
That’s the other benefit of MAF. I feel like I could go on forever at that pace. If my ### And legs didn’t fall asleep...
bostonfred
Footballguy
This is about where i was. Lightly jogging at 4.3 mph on the treadmill. The day before, when i wasn't using my heart rate monitor, i was fast walking 4.2 mph. Now I'm jogging .1 mph faster and wondering if I should even be "jogging" or just walking if the goal is to keep my heart rate at 135 either way. I totally see the benefit of not getting all sweaty and gross. It's probably easier on the knees per step, but I'm not sure that helps if I'm taking more steps to burn the same calories.
bostonfred
Footballguy
eaganwildcats
Footballguy
One thing I vowed to myself when I started trying to do any sort of exercise was to just do....something. I am prone to decisions paralysis which can lead to "if I can't figure out and do the absolute perfect thing might as well do nothing at all". So I've settled in fairly nicely to a little bit of a "MAF+" - I found keeping my heart rate below 150 was leading to poorer form and having to throttle down a bunch. Decided to just try to keep the average around 150 and throttle back if I'm getting up toward 160 - which has seemed to be working well (though maybe has made me a bit hungrier - not sure). I've also found it pretty interesting how variable the rate can be depending on temperature, time of day, what I've eaten, etc.
If I get bored of the current situation or I find myself plateauing I might gravitate toward some interval work sprinkled in (something like the Pete Plan or others).
Well done @Otis getting back in the saddle after a couple days missing is what has tripped me up many a time in the past.
fissure man
Footballguy
This is the best advice for anyone.
95% of the population would improve their everyday life just by doing "something". If you manage to do just that then you can start looking for this alleged perfect workout.
fissure man
Footballguy
Im very interested in this MAF stuff. Never heard of it until now.
As I get older, ( I'm 42 now,) I worry about doing the super high intensity workout that Ive been doing for years now.
As I get older, ( I'm 42 now,) I worry about doing the super high intensity workout that Ive been doing for years now.
Otis
Footballguy
Went out and bought a bike today. 8 year old learned to ride, and ive been meaning to get one so I can take her out for some rides around town. Went for a ride, didn’t go all that far or that fast, but another nice little excuse for some exercise.
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bostonfred
Footballguy
Tried MAF again but this time i didn't start at 7mph then work down. I started at my pace from last time, 4.3mph, and worked up to 4.6 which is a little better but still feels painfully slow. A 40 minute 5k later I'm kind of ok with it - I never felt like i needed to slow down or stop which is nice. I kind of want to see how far i can go at this pace but I don't want to overdo it and get hurt in some ridiculous embarrassing way. I don't know if this is a good idea but I will keep going for now and let my endurance build up.
Breakfast - panera chicken/ egg/ avocado/ peppers wrap
Lunch small salad
Dinner scallops and potato , wine
Still under my goal calories so wtf why not
Breakfast - panera chicken/ egg/ avocado/ peppers wrap
Lunch small salad
Dinner scallops and potato , wine
Still under my goal calories so wtf why not
bostonfred
Footballguy
In case anyone is trying MAF for the first time and found this post - the first time i tried my heart rate monitor i was like cool, let's see what 7 or 8 mph does to my heart. Then I dialed it down to my MAF heartrate which is about 135 (180 minus your age minus other stuff).
The second time i did it I didn't do the fast run first.
So the first time my heart rate spiked to about 170 and then i slowed down and it fell slowly. I settled on 135 bpm.at 4.3mph and hated my life.
The second time i just started at 4.3, and my heart rate didn't hit 135. So i hit the plus button on the treadmill and 4.4 still wasn't 135. Sweet.
I'm going to tinker with it but i suspect that it's better to start slow and speed up than to start fast and slow down because it takes time to make the heart muscle chill.
And since there are about 9 million hits for "MAF sucks too slow", but a lot of them end with never mind it totally worked, i figure it is worth waiting to see how it works out before complaining.
Good luck, future MAFfers
eaganwildcats
Footballguy
Tough day physically that evolved into a tough day mentally. Kobe news hit me way harder than I would have thought.
Jan 26 Row 10k in 44:52 130 avg HR
Jan Total: 248,538
So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
Jan 26 Row 10k in 44:52 130 avg HR
Jan Total: 248,538
So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
gianmarco
Footballguy
So one of the components of MAF is a good warm up and cool down. You should definitely NOT start fast if you want to go that route. If your MAF is 135, then your 10-15 minute warmup shouldn't go above 125. That might just be walking (even if not on the treadmill). Similarly, you do 10-15 minutes when done of the same.
I wasn't as religious about that as I should have been, but I just wanted to point that out. Your HR, however, should never get above your calculated MAF. That's the point. So if you are starting high and working it down, your theoretically defeating the purpose. The way you did it today is the right way.
And don't hesitate about going longer. I wouldn't go crazy, but at slower speeds and lower impact, you can increase your time. Just don't go more than 10% over the course of the week.
msommer
Footballguy
Been awhile since I shared any veggie recipes, this one I had yday and probably for lunch again today
Chickpea and lemon soup
Bake a whole garlic for an hour. Cut the top off, place in aly foil and rub in olive oil. close and put in oven
Chop an onion, a couple of celery stalks and two carrots finely. Saute for a few minutes.
Add a tin of coconut milk, a tbsp of green curry pasre and the zest of a lemon, squeeze out the baked garlic from the "paper" into the mix, bring to boil.
Add a cup and a half of pre cooked chickpeas and about a quart of veggie broth.
Boil for five minutes, adjustbseasoning, add some chopped cilantro and the juice from the zested lemon.
Serve with fresh bread
Chickpea and lemon soup
Bake a whole garlic for an hour. Cut the top off, place in aly foil and rub in olive oil. close and put in oven
Chop an onion, a couple of celery stalks and two carrots finely. Saute for a few minutes.
Add a tin of coconut milk, a tbsp of green curry pasre and the zest of a lemon, squeeze out the baked garlic from the "paper" into the mix, bring to boil.
Add a cup and a half of pre cooked chickpeas and about a quart of veggie broth.
Boil for five minutes, adjustbseasoning, add some chopped cilantro and the juice from the zested lemon.
Serve with fresh bread
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Otis
Footballguy
Rowtis Stats
Jan 27 row: Easy 10k MAF (51:59; avg. HR 136; 701 cals)
January total: 197,091
Nice and easy Monday morning MAF row. 40k in the past 48hrs. Had a big family dinner last night; ate more than I wanted. Great roast beef potatoes, broccoli and a couple of pieces of bread with butter. Also had a couple organic chocolate things for dessert. Still no booze, still no sitting on my couch crushing Oreos. But I’d like a nice light eating day today.
Jan 27 row: Easy 10k MAF (51:59; avg. HR 136; 701 cals)
January total: 197,091
Nice and easy Monday morning MAF row. 40k in the past 48hrs. Had a big family dinner last night; ate more than I wanted. Great roast beef potatoes, broccoli and a couple of pieces of bread with butter. Also had a couple organic chocolate things for dessert. Still no booze, still no sitting on my couch crushing Oreos. But I’d like a nice light eating day today.
bostonfred
Footballguy
This is the best part of this post. It seems like you're getting into the lifestyle change.
Otis
Footballguy
Always just feel so much better when I eat light. Last night was the first time in a while I’ve eaten till I was stuffed. Granted it was all real, home cooked food. But I probably would have felt great going to bed on half what I ate.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Thursday you didn't get to row because your kid woke up early. So you were good this weekend and started adding in bike with your other kid. Sunday night you overrate a little. Monday morning you're talking about eating a little lighter today. This is all it takes. It's not the short term effort, it's the long term commitment, and you seem to be getting into that mindset. I really think this time it's going to work for you and stick.
Otis
Footballguy
Thanks Gb, hoping so. Have to stick to it, and I also have to be patient. I’ve found a couple moments I’ve been frustrated that the fat isn’t shedding faster than it is—maybe I should try and eat even better than I am. But then I remind myself it took me 10 or 15 years to get myself into this position, you don’t undo that overnight. It’s really only been 3 weeks of eating like a normal human and not abusing alcohol, and a little bit longer than that of actually doing cardio. I have to remind myself it’ll really be a few months before I see serious progress in that department. But, trusting the system, it’ll happen, so long as I keep at it. Slow and steady.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Starting day 15 w/o beer. It takes work to exceed 2000 calories now, whereas before I could hit 3500 with ease.
I finally hit the weights this weekend and I'm sore as #### this morning.
Have intentionally not weighed myself for a couple of weeks, but definitely sporting a slimmer waist. I'm probably down about 10 pounds. I'll jump on the scale today.
Something I've noticed over the past week is that my tolerance to heat in the steam room is significantly better. My gym keeps the setting around 130 degrees (as I recall) and often I could not make it to 10 minutes. Now I just relax and contemplate in the steam. I wonder if the temp got turned down, or have lifestyle changes affected my threshold.
I finally hit the weights this weekend and I'm sore as #### this morning.
Have intentionally not weighed myself for a couple of weeks, but definitely sporting a slimmer waist. I'm probably down about 10 pounds. I'll jump on the scale today.
Something I've noticed over the past week is that my tolerance to heat in the steam room is significantly better. My gym keeps the setting around 130 degrees (as I recall) and often I could not make it to 10 minutes. Now I just relax and contemplate in the steam. I wonder if the temp got turned down, or have lifestyle changes affected my threshold.
pbm107
Footballguy
One thing to keep in mind is that the MAF heart rate is just an estimate and every individual is different. When I first started out I found this write up prior to learning about MAF, and since I knew my max HR was 195 I ran a ton of miles keeping my HR below 145 based on Hadd’s guidance with great success. I am a big believer that you can achieve significant gains by training aerobically, and it is a great approach to safely build up mileage.
Not knowing your max HR I don’t know if the MAF heart rate estimate is too low, but I also don’t think it really matters. This spreadsheet is intended to calculate your training zones based on HR, but it also shows that there are wide ranges of acceptable HRs for easy running pace and there isn’t a consensus between the 3 coaches Daniels, Hadd, and Pfitzinger.
So what HR should you run at for easy aerobic running? 135 is fine if you are enjoying it, but there is nothing wrong with picking up the pace a bit if you’re more comfortable running faster and you can still easily hold a conversation. Keep up the good work.
Ron Swanson
Footballguy
Through Week 3
Week 1 - (8 pounds)
Week 2 - (4 pounds)
Week 3 - (3 pounds)
Still following calorie restriction. This week was a travel week but I did pretty good. Probably the first time i lost weight on the road. Had a couple salads that were more excessive than what I would make at home, a big bowl of Pho in Saturday and a very low activity weekend with some boozing. Tried a couple of the new lo-cal IPA's Liked Lagunitas Daytime better than Dogfish Slightly Mighty. A nice treat at only 95 calories each. Looking forward to a bigger loss this week with a return to my normal structure.
Week 1 - (8 pounds)
Week 2 - (4 pounds)
Week 3 - (3 pounds)
Still following calorie restriction. This week was a travel week but I did pretty good. Probably the first time i lost weight on the road. Had a couple salads that were more excessive than what I would make at home, a big bowl of Pho in Saturday and a very low activity weekend with some boozing. Tried a couple of the new lo-cal IPA's Liked Lagunitas Daytime better than Dogfish Slightly Mighty. A nice treat at only 95 calories each. Looking forward to a bigger loss this week with a return to my normal structure.
Otis
Footballguy
This is helpful. I’ve struggled to figure out what range I should be gunning for, so I’ve settled into the 130s to low 140s as being the right range. The online calculator and my Garmin watch all seem to put me somewhere in that range. 120s is too low; high 140s/150s seems too high. But no idea what my max is.
eaganwildcats
Footballguy
Maybe you will once we do the 2K challenge this week? I'm thinking Thursday will be my day.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
First, congrats on 3 impressive weight loss weeks. Thanks for the heads up on the low cal IPA. I am avoiding alcohol in January but will try some low cal IPAs eventually.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
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bostonfred
Footballguy
Day 3 of MAF running
Day 1 - 4.3 mph
Day 2 - 4.5
Day 3 - 5.3?
Today i started out with a 5 minute walk at 3.5 mph, then moved up to a light jog at 4.5 expecting that to be the pace like yesterday. Nope. Barely got me into the 110 range. Bumped it up to 4.7, 4.9, 5.1, then at 5.3 i finally started to creep up to 135 or 136 beats per minute. After a little over 2 miles i started to creep up to 138, 139 so I dropped down to 5.1 mph, then 4.9, and stayed around 135 beats per minute..
I was able to comfortably run the full 5k, so I finished with a 9mph burst for the last couple minutes.
That's probably better than what i had been doing - running 7 to 8 mph until i was fatigued, walking for a little bit, then starting back up again.
It still feels like I'm going really slow but 5.3 at least felt like a jog, and seeing gains while still being able to finish without any walking made me a believer.
I tried a 2k row afterwards but couldn't figure out how to check my watch style heart rate monitor so I was just guessing and finished in just under 10 minutes before checking and seeing i was never close to 135. I probably need to figure out how to use this thing.
Day 1 - 4.3 mph
Day 2 - 4.5
Day 3 - 5.3?
Today i started out with a 5 minute walk at 3.5 mph, then moved up to a light jog at 4.5 expecting that to be the pace like yesterday. Nope. Barely got me into the 110 range. Bumped it up to 4.7, 4.9, 5.1, then at 5.3 i finally started to creep up to 135 or 136 beats per minute. After a little over 2 miles i started to creep up to 138, 139 so I dropped down to 5.1 mph, then 4.9, and stayed around 135 beats per minute..
I was able to comfortably run the full 5k, so I finished with a 9mph burst for the last couple minutes.
That's probably better than what i had been doing - running 7 to 8 mph until i was fatigued, walking for a little bit, then starting back up again.
It still feels like I'm going really slow but 5.3 at least felt like a jog, and seeing gains while still being able to finish without any walking made me a believer.
I tried a 2k row afterwards but couldn't figure out how to check my watch style heart rate monitor so I was just guessing and finished in just under 10 minutes before checking and seeing i was never close to 135. I probably need to figure out how to use this thing.
eaganwildcats
Footballguy
Otis
Footballguy
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
Anyone want to cliff note the MAF, for me? I went to the website and it wants me to fill out a grip of paperwork, get a weekly email, etc.
thnks guys.
thnks guys.
