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Why would anyone need an assault rifle? (3 Viewers)

Assault Rifles

  • Ban them

    Votes: 309 74.6%

  • They have many uses outside of killing a lot of people in a short amount of time

    Votes: 105 25.4%
  • Total voters
    414
Captain Cranks said:
Exactly.  Gun-guy always tries to dominate the debate with the "I know more about guns and their nomenclature than you do and therefore I have a superior position."  All that noise does is kick up dust and deflect from the debate at hand.  
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No, gun guy is trying to educate you because you guys don't even know what you're talking about.

 
Dexter said:
Oh so we are changing the rules? When proven wrong you make up some scenario to try and prove you're right. 
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What are you talking about? The intent behind this thread and the question it represented was clear. We've all heard the technical definitions thrown at us about the AR15, going back many shootings ago, and we still don't give a ####. Its not about labeling guns and putting them into proper categories, its about identifying the ones that have no place in a civilian's hands. Shotguns, cool. Rifles, cool. Handguns, fine. Those all have very real uses aside from "fun". A weapon that can be altered very easily to become something out of ####### Rambo? Not a single good argument has been made in this thread. Plenty of good arguments have been made for different guns, but not the ones this thread was created to talk about. Don't be intentionally thick.

 
ConnSKINS26 said:
Its not about labeling guns and putting them into proper categories, its about identifying the ones that have no place in a civilian's hands. 
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How are you going decide who gets what when you won't label and put guns in proper categories? Do you see how stupid that sounds? You won't take the time to actually learn about the thing you're so quick to ban.

 
Dexter said:
How are you going decide who gets what when you won't label and put guns in proper categories? Do you see how stupid that sounds? You won't take the time to actually learn about the thing you're so quick to ban.
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Did you watch the Bill O'Reilly clip I posted a while back?  He covers this.

 
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fantasycurse42 said:
Apparently anything. I have no understanding about them or what they are used for, verbatim what you wrote. I'm sure there are others like me, we need enlightening from A-Z.
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Its just a semi automatic rifle.  The Ruger 10/22 has been around since 1964.  It is also a semi automatic rifle with a magazine and basically the same size round (diameter .22 vs .223) and nobody is calling for the 10/22 to be banned for private sale.  All rifles can be used to hunt for food, get rid of varmints, can be used for self defense, can be used by military or law enforcement, could be used against a tyrannous government, and unfortunately could be used to harm people.  

 
Arsenal of Doom said:
No, I think revolvers are fine. IMO better guns for most who want to own a handgun for defense anyway. 
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I have to disagree with you there.

Semiautomatic shotguns have valid uses too.

I don't like bolt action rifles. Takes too long to line up a second shot if you don't get a clean kill.

 
Arsenal of Doom said:
No, I think revolvers are fine. IMO better guns for most who want to own a handgun for defense anyway. 
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Empty that revolver and check it a few times to make sure its empty.  Now I want you to take that revolver and have someone grab ahold of the cylinder and try to fire it more than once and see what happens.  

 
JHuber77 said:
Its just a semi automatic rifle.  The Ruger 10/22 has been around since 1964.  It is also a semi automatic rifle with a magazine and basically the same size round (diameter .22 vs .223) and nobody is calling for the 10/22 to be banned for private sale.  All rifles can be used to hunt for food, get rid of varmints, can be used for self defense, can be used by military or law enforcement, could be used against a tyrannous government, and unfortunately could be used to harm people.  
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Don't think people care about the 10 bullet mag version (1964 version) but you slap on a 30 bullet magazine, add a folding stock and a pistol handle and then you are getting into different territory and I think people would want those banned or at least I would. Saying AR15 is short hand for what people don't want.

ETA - something like this http://www.ruger.com/products/1022Tactical/specSheets/1287.html

 
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JHuber77 said:
Empty that revolver and check it a few times to make sure its empty.  Now I want you to take that revolver and have someone grab ahold of the cylinder and try to fire it more than once and see what happens.  
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This falls into the diminishing returns bucket to me. You can come up with scenarios where any gun would have an advantage over another type but IMO revolvers are going to cover 99 out of 100 situations that a semi-auto pistol will, while being less practical for someone who wants to injure a large number of people. 

 
Anti gunners need to chill. Once Hillary wins, the dems take the senate & the SCOTUS swings back to the left, all the problems will be squarely on the dems shoulders. I suggest not trying to confiscate guns. I'm not looking for a fight, but there are lot of people who are. Let's NOT force their hands.

 
Arsenal of Doom said:
I'll post the same thing I do in all of these threads. By way of background I worked at the NRA in the 90s, right when all the infamous "Jack-booted Thugs" flap was going on. I worked on the hunting and safety side as opposed to the ILA, which is the lobbying arm. I own 2 guns currently but don't keep any ammunition in the house since I have a young son and think it's safer that way. 

In short, I don't think people need semi-automatic guns (I won't read the thread but I assume it immediately devolved into an argument over what constitutes an assault weapon so I'll just keep my comments directed at all semi-auto) for legitimate sporting purposes and further that there is a vastly diminishing return on semi-automatics for defense purposes. 

I also don't think there is a definitive 2nd Amendment right to own/carry semi-automatics. The vast majority of people including gun owners currently recognize a distinction between fully-automatic weapons and 2A protection, so the line is somewhat arbitrary as the amendment was written before any of today's modern arms existed. So the question really should be about the marginal value of weapons for legitimate reasons vs. the risk of misuse. As stated above, I think the marginal value is small beyond personal preference. At a minimum I believe we can and should effectively ban semi-automatic rifles and I would personally like to see that extended to handguns as well.
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No fully automatic weapons?  Seriously? 

 
Amused to Death said:
Did you watch the Bill O'Reilly clip I posted a while back?  He covers this.
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No I didn't watch it. He covers how to classify guns without classifying them? connskinn already said he didn't care which tells me all I need to know. He just wants to ban scary sounding guns to hell with actually learning about them.

 
Lester Burnham said:
Anti gunners need to chill. Once Hillary wins, the dems take the senate & the SCOTUS swings back to the left, all the problems will be squarely on the dems shoulders. I suggest not trying to confiscate guns. I'm not looking for a fight, but there are lot of people who are. Let's NOT force their hands.
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Well, if this is the case i am all for vetting them out rather then waiting for them to decide when they feel they should exercise their rights and shoot away. If "looking for a fight" would help us uncover 5% of the nuts with these guns, then let's go for it.

If you want something to be angry about or fight, maybe take up a cause that actually needs attention. there are plenty like the education system, etc.

 
JHuber77 said:
Empty that revolver and check it a few times to make sure its empty.  Now I want you to take that revolver and have someone grab ahold of the cylinder and try to fire it more than once and see what happens.  
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Not getting into a lot of this debate...but, so what?

Do you think if someone grabs the cylinder of the gun, they will be holding it still after the first shot is fired?

 
Dexter said:
No I didn't watch it. He covers how to classify guns without classifying them? connskinn already said he didn't care which tells me all I need to know. He just wants to ban scary sounding guns to hell with actually learning about them.
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He was on Colbert last night (coincidentally - appearance was booked a month ago).  They had a frank discussion with both taking the expected sides.  But I found myself agreeing with a lot of what Bill was saying.  To paraphrase Bill:

  • Australia got a lot of things rights - we could learn some things
  • Contrary to popular belief (and the FFA) gun violence in the U.S. is going down, not up*
  • Agreed that "assault weapons" should be banned
  • Let congress decide what guns are appropriate for the public (I would hope this involves lots of input from experts on both sides of the issue)
  • Strong(er) mandatory federal minimum jail terms for crimes involving guns (10 year min)
  • Declare all out war against ISIS as that would free up resources to better detain suspected terrorists
*Bill's statement - I have not fact-checked.

 
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modogg said:
Well, if this is the case i am all for vetting them out rather then waiting for them to decide when they feel they should exercise their rights and shoot away. If "looking for a fight" would help us uncover 5% of the nuts with these guns, then let's go for it.

If you want something to be angry about or fight, maybe take up a cause that actually needs attention. there are plenty like the education system, etc.
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mmmmkay

You sure you are an anti gunner? You sound more like a 2A guy. ;)

 
Ignoramus said:
No fully automatic weapons?  Seriously? 
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Not sure I understand the question. Did you mean to say semi-auto? 

In either case, yes. Though I mainly see high capacity as the issue. If we could work with manufacturers to make hunting rifles/shotguns that can't be easily modified to carry more than a 6 shot load I think that would be fine. 

 
People can work on tactical reloading skills. I believe people really want to cap the cyclic rate. Unfortunately they focus on scary looking guns instead.

 
Lester Burnham said:
People can work on tactical reloading skills. I believe people really want to cap the cyclic rate. Unfortunately they focus on scary looking guns instead.
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This is why we need productive discussions among people who actually know what they're talking about.  Two sides, come to the table and look for solutions.  The problem's not getting solved on a message board or Facebook.

 
Lester Burnham said:
People can work on tactical reloading skills. I believe people really want to cap the cyclic rate. Unfortunately they focus on scary looking guns instead.
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Capacity is more important than rate of fire in these situations IMO. Mainly basic math, the more often you need to pause to reload the more chances people have to get away or subdue. 

 
Amused to Death said:
This is why we need productive discussions among people who actually know what they're talking about.  Two sides, come to the table and look for solutions.  The problem's not getting solved on a message board or Facebook.
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Thats hard when one side's solution is "ban all guns" and the other side wants absolute freedom concerning firearms

 
Lester Burnham said:
Thats hard when one side's solution is "ban all guns" and the other side wants absolute freedom concerning firearms
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Well, here't to hoping thoughts and prayers finally work.  Or maybe it'll be the moments of silence that finally do the trick.  I thought America could come up with something better.

 
Lester Burnham said:
Google "tactical reloading"
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I know what it is so not necessary. Doesn't change my assessment even if I thought most people prone to this would invest the time to become proficient, which I don't. Basically at any skill or training level a shooter is better off the less they need to think about reloading. 

 
Lester Burnham said:
Thats hard when one side's solution is "ban all guns" and the other side wants absolute freedom concerning firearms
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It's also hard when it's already illegal to go to a populated place indiscriminately kill people. The solution of making another law for him to break to do so seems wonky to me. Maybe he broke the speed limit on the way to the shooting. Maybe he jaywalked from wherever he parked. If he broke 20 laws before a horrific act of terrorism is it really going to make anyone feel better if we pass another law so he had to break 21 of them instead?

Nobody can be so naive that they think we can stop bad guys from getting guns in this country. If there are they probably think that pot was just "discovered" in the states of CO and WA.

 
Arsenal of Doom said:
I know what it is so not necessary. Doesn't change my assessment even if I thought most people prone to this would invest the time to become proficient, which I don't. Basically at any skill or training level a shooter is better off the less they need to think about reloading. 
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We'll just agree to disagree. I see people practicing mag changes every time I'm at the range.

 
Is it just an unfortunate coincidence that the Lester Burnham character was killed by a gun shot by a closeted homosexual with a history of violence and mental instability?

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
Yes. 

You realize the piece of crap in Orlando waited 72 hours, right?
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For the AR?  

http://time.com/money/4366099/orlando-shooting-pulse-nightclub-ar-15-rifle-sales/

Florida gun laws, like those in many states, are more lax for larger weapons than they are for handguns. While there is a three-day waiting period for purchasing handguns, there’s no waiting period between purchase and delivery of firearms, like the AR-15, that require two hands to hold.
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BoltBacker said:
It's also hard when it's already illegal to go to a populated place indiscriminately kill people. The solution of making another law for him to break to do so seems wonky to me. Maybe he broke the speed limit on the way to the shooting. Maybe he jaywalked from wherever he parked. If he broke 20 laws before a horrific act of terrorism is it really going to make anyone feel better if we pass another law so he had to break 21 of them instead?

Nobody can be so naive that they think we can stop bad guys from getting guns in this country. If there are they probably think that pot was just "discovered" in the states of CO and WA.
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Do you think pot is easier or harder to get now in CO? Do you think more or fewer people use it now? The fact that a law can't stop every instance it is written for isn't a great reason to not have laws. 

 
BoltBacker said:
It's also hard when it's already illegal to go to a populated place indiscriminately kill people. The solution of making another law for him to break to do so seems wonky to me. Maybe he broke the speed limit on the way to the shooting. Maybe he jaywalked from wherever he parked. If he broke 20 laws before a horrific act of terrorism is it really going to make anyone feel better if we pass another law so he had to break 21 of them instead?

Nobody can be so naive that they think we can stop bad guys from getting guns in this country. If there are they probably think that pot was just "discovered" in the states of CO and WA.
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Why is this an acceptable reason to avoid additional gun laws but is somehow expected to keep perverts out of women's restrooms?

(Yes, my daughter told me that one from a meme she saw last night)

 
Arsenal of Doom said:
Do you think pot is easier or harder to get now in CO? Do you think more or fewer people use it now? The fact that a law can't stop every instance it is written for isn't a great reason to not have laws. 
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That's a fair question.

I think for the most adamant pot users in CO the change in law has not affected their consumption. Not even a tiny, little bit. Let's call that the 5%ers.

I would describe AR-15 wielding terrorists as "gun enthusiasts". The guys that do this stuff are easily in the top 5% of gun nuts out there and will find a gun. Or, I suppose they could just switch to making bombs instead. How's your lawn? How many household pesticides are we going to ban?

The weapon isn't the AR-15, it's the person.

 
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