KCitons
Footballguy
Part of the reason experts suggest a 12 gauge for home defense is to prevent penetrating walls.
Search "best weapon for home defense" and you'll find multiple comments about shotgun vs AR15 in regards to wall penetration.
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Why would anyone need an assault rifle? (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter fantasycurse42
- Start date
Search "best weapon for home defense" and you'll find multiple comments about shotgun vs AR15 in regards to wall penetration.
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
The obvious answer is landmines, Claymores and several machine gun nests.SoBeDad said:
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
What about a moat around your house and have sharks with freaking lasers on their heads in it?
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
That may be fine for folks in a tropical or temperate climate, and I know there are cold water sharks, but how would I keep the moat from freezing in the wintertime. Shark with lazers won't do much good if they are under a few feet of ice.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
You're right, I wouldn't be able to do that. Burglars could just walked right over the ice and my expensive sharks would perish. I'll go back to the drawing board.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Maybe a couple of trough warmers like cattlemen use to keep water troughs open and accessible during the cold months.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Committing a mass shooting and home defense are two very different things. You know this.
KCitons
Footballguy
What is the point?
Combat action and mass shootings are two different things. You know that.
Boil it down, the most recent conversation has been about the home invasion. During that incident, the homeowner's goal was to kill the intruders as quickly as possible. Since the AR15 has been deemed as the most effective weapon at doing so, why would you choose anything else?
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
KCitons
Footballguy
You're mixing your conversations. The homeowner was in an isolated area and was alone in the house.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I would choose something else as I do not deem it the best home defense weapon. That's me though.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I have the option, in shotguns, of a Remington 870, a Remington 1100, a Mossberg 500 bull pup, a Stoeger coach gun and Benelli M3. For home defense I would go with the Bull Pup. Short, maneuverable, loaded with 000 buck it will shred anything and anybody but will likely stop within my home. I can use it more than accurately enough to turn any intruder into hamburger, even with sleep in my eyes. I seriously doubt any scenario were I would need more than five rounds since, you know, I have never needed any rounds. It is available to me in the master bedroom within about 2 seconds inside of a locked gun safe. Also in the same safe is a Glock .40 with two magazines (Police issue). I can carry that without interfering with two handed operation of the Mossberg. My presumption is that my dog will give me sufficient warning to wake, arm, and evaluate.
(My Stoeger coach gun is not within my consideration as it only holds two rounds, but there is something to be said for the sound of two rounds being dropped in and then it closed that ought to scare most folks away. The Remingtons and the Benelli being full length guns I would not use them for home defense, too cumbersome.
(My Stoeger coach gun is not within my consideration as it only holds two rounds, but there is something to be said for the sound of two rounds being dropped in and then it closed that ought to scare most folks away. The Remingtons and the Benelli being full length guns I would not use them for home defense, too cumbersome.
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KCitons
Footballguy
Home defense covers a lot of things. The instance that we are talking about, is where 4 people came came into the home with the intentions of harming the homeowner and robbing him. Luckily, only 2 of them were armed. This was a firefight from the start. I would want a gun that holds a lot of rounds and is very effective killing power. The situation may have become a war of attrition. Knowing that most criminals carry a single handgun with a standard or extended magazine, I have to be able to hold up against a barrage of 30-50 rounds.
If I have my druthers, I would prefer to see them approaching the house at 150 yards and use my .270. That way I'm never in danger.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I consider home invasion extremely unlikely, particularly while I am home. For that very unlikely scenario I am prepared for the most likely iteration, not an extended firefight but the need to put down, maybe, one or two poorly armed tweekers. With an un-choked shotgun loaded with 000 I cannot miss, even disoriented from sleeping. Also, I am not going to be shooting into my neighbors houses or into one of them that sees the situation developing and chooses to come over to assist me and just happens to be outside, maybe on my porch. If others want an AR 15, well that is their choice, not a good choice by my way of thinking, but it is theirs. Some may want to wake from a drowsy sleep and use that weapons system, not I. Some may anticipate hordes invading, not I. Maybe we live in very different environments so I do not judge, rather I pray that you are not my neighbor. Anybody thinking they may want 50 rounds to face down 4 fellas in their house is telling me that maybe 46 of those rounds are going to be leaving that house. That frightens me, but again, I don't know your situation, maybe you have no neighbors for miles around.
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Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
BTW, you mentioned effective killing power, take your pick at say 15 feet, 000 buck out of a 12 gauge or say a semi-jacketed hollow point of 65 grains out of a .223.. Think about it for both deadly potential and for immediate stopping power, not bleeding the guy out 10 minutes later after he has shot, reloaded, and shot again. I am pretty confident yours is the incorrect choice, but that is for you to make.
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msommer
Footballguy
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I say let the booty run free, un-trapped. If it attacks, well so be it, I can take it.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
msommer
Footballguy
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Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
I forgot trip lines rigged to flamethrowers. Sheesh, where is my mind at?!!
KCitons
Footballguy
I might ask you the same. But, my scenario isn't Just one standing target at 15 feet. It's 4 armed men moving around your house, intent on killing you. Would you rather have 5 rounds of 12 gauge, or 30 rounds of .223?
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
With Hawkeye I am not sure it was a Freudian slip. the guy does enjoy a twisted paly on words from time to time and since the subject is past taking seriously at all I thought he may have gone full sardonic. Still, it could be as you posit.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
You and I are never going to reach consensus since you never reach it with anyone. You struggle to find the unreasonable and unlikely to justify a poor choice. That's fine, its your choice and I expect a certain percentage of folks to choose poorly, but have the grace to change your position or let a few go, either way. You are addressing the unlikeliest of scenarios to the detriment of far more likely, but still extremely unlikely scenarios. I get it, your AR helps put lead in your pencil. It is not, however, a good weapon for home defense during the night. It is better than a bag of feathers, put far worse than a pistol grip shotgun with a short barrel.
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Hawkeye21
Footballguy
I just watched The Goonies over the weekend so it popped into my head. I was hoping someone would say, "You mean booby traps." Then I could say, "That's what I said, booby traps."
KCitons
Footballguy
Let me reiterate. I don't own an AR15. I, like you, have a 12 gauge and a glock for home defense. All of this conversation has been around the home invasion incident. Nothing more, nothing less. In that case, the AR15 was the best option.
We can agree to disagree.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
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KCitons
Footballguy
This is comical. You choose to put your life on the line by choosing 5 rounds instead of 30. You don't account for any mishaps you make make due to adrenaline. Maybe you fire at a lamp that falls off the end table. You're now down to 4 rounds.
I respect you're opinion. But, you're not right every time.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
UncleZen
Footballguy
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Arm yourself with a Zomboni. Just take a Zamboni and with a few simple modifications converting it from ice smoothing to body mulching it is good for harvesting zombies like a thresher harvests wheat.UncleZen said:
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The Z Machine
Footballguy
What is the likelihood that you will be in such a situation? I would think it is infinitesimally small if you are not involved in criminal activities, especially those involving drugs.
msommer
Footballguy
The Z Machine
Footballguy
If you're storing either large amounts of drugs or cash money on your person or in your home, I could see the potential for needing such armament. But the needs of those people shouldn't outweigh the safety and security of everyone else.
msommer
Footballguy
Oh I agree. That's why I was quoting from 'Dumb and Dumber' for the opposing view
KCitons
Footballguy
Simple answer, there's not. I understand your point that there must be criminal element for these kinds of things to happen. But, I've contested that the mental state of people is more and more a factor when it comes to crimes. Mass shootings show that to be true. (there is nothing for the shooter to gain from a mass shooting such as money or drugs). I know, AR15's are involved in deadly mass shootings. So, it seems like a chicken-egg thing.
Truth is, the incident we are discussing happened. That alone is proof of concept. I don't know if the homeowner had drugs or money. But, for some reason, these four guys were determined to rob or kill this guy. I wonder if all 4 of them would have had guns, if the homeowner would still be alive? He was hit once with one perp having a shotgun and the other a handgun. Which also goes against DW's statement of a shotgun being better. The guy with a shotgun in dead. While the guy with the AR is alive.
The title of the thread asks "why would anyone need an assault rifle". If we are going to be honest about the conversation, then one would have to be able to accept that there is a small chance where an assault rifle could be needed. Sticking to the line, that no matter what, it's unnecessary is what make people say this place is an echo chamber. I don't own an AR. I don't need one. Don't really want one. During my sons 10 day leave over the holiday, he wanted to buy me one for fathers day. I declined. I'm actually looking at reducing the number of guns I own over the next couple of years.
KCitons
Footballguy
You can't make the claims in one thread that an AR is the most effective gun at killing people, while in another thread state that it's not necessary. Even if you find yourself in a situation where you need to kill people to defend yourself.
This is where I claim people are hypocrites and are just bending the conversation to fit the agenda.
This is where I claim people are hypocrites and are just bending the conversation to fit the agenda.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
It can absolutely be effective and not necessary. A nuclear weapon is effective and not necessary for personal use.
Too damn funny. 5 rounds vs these 2 criminals, one with a shotgun. He'd be begging for that AR-15 when bullet #5 misses it's mark. The bottom line is that dude sank any argument against the AR-15 and I don't like the thing existing but its obviously necessary since we do not have a country anymore that punishes criminal activity the way it should.
This is comical. You choose to put your life on the line by choosing 5 rounds instead of 30. You don't account for any mishaps you make make due to adrenaline. Maybe you fire at a lamp that falls off the end table. You're now down to 4 rounds.
I respect you're opinion. But, you're not right every time.
KCitons
Footballguy
I think the victim of that home invasion would argue otherwise.
A nuclear weapon would be considered overkill (as well as suicide) for someone that is defending their home against 4 armed attackers. An AR15 is not.
Some people continue to round peg a square hole. All in the name of ever conceding that the AR15 could be a needed in even the smallest percent of attacks. It takes a special level of pig headed ignorance to accomplish.
Gustavo Fring
Footballguy
Give me a ray gun and I'll zap those intruders back to area 51.
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
He's the one
Who likes all our pretty songs
And he likes to sing along
And he likes to shoot his gun
But he knows not what it means
Knows not what it means when I say ah...
Who likes all our pretty songs
And he likes to sing along
And he likes to shoot his gun
But he knows not what it means
Knows not what it means when I say ah...
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I don't miss. I don't fire bullets from my shotguns, and rarely slugs, I fire shot. Also, I can reload if I choose or needed to do so. maybe you should take a look at the shot pattern of an un-choked shotgun shooting 000 buck shot at say 12 feet. Mr. AR waking, groggy, fumbling for his glasses may miss. Me, not happening. The AR is not a magic weapon, a magic platform. It is a tool. yes it has broad uses, but it is far from the best in all circumstances. Of course the foregoing is opinion.
