imjackdupp
Footballguy
I only set the leagues up on one device. However I did have a mock draft and real draft set up for each. After removing the 2nd draft for each lg. it appears to be getting along better. Keep up the good work.
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It's Christmas in July - Draft Dominator software available for your desktop (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter David Dodds
- Start date
abbottjamesr
Footballguy
In the old DD there was a way to have user entered projections and blend them in with the experts. Is that possible in the new version?
I see I can change the order by entering my projected points and upside. But the software seems to reset my values when I do this and its kind of a pain to have to enter 150 player values in more than a couple times.
I see I can change the order by entering my projected points and upside. But the software seems to reset my values when I do this and its kind of a pain to have to enter 150 player values in more than a couple times.
ebcpastor2004
Footballguy
Hey Simon, what is the Draftmaster button in the basic settings box?
Simon Shepherd
Footballguy
I have no idea what this means. I can't believe it's disappointment as this release wasn't announced in any way and if you're a subscriber, it's yet another tool in your subscription!
Simon Shepherd
Footballguy
We don't have support for this right now, because I think so few people do their own projections. That's 2 votes for it now though - it is in the list.
Simon Shepherd
Footballguy
abbottjamesr
Footballguy
That being said, what is the best way for me to enter my projections in the rankings tab? If I use Default User and the Edit Players button I can adjust the FP and Upside but when I exit out it seems it like a 50% change that they wont revert back. and if I mess with any of the sliders they revert back 100% of the time.
Simon Shepherd
Footballguy
can you give me steps to replicate them reverting and details of which device you're using there? I've been unable to see this. are you sure you're using the same rankings profile?
abbottjamesr
Footballguy
Thanks for the very responsive support that you give on the forum Simon. It really is amazing the amount of time you spend on here helping us out. Love the software and the new look, you guys did a great job.
I am running on Windows 10, latest published version from the site. Auction draft, no keepers.
I go in to the Rankings button on a new non-started mock draft and go to the Default User profile. Projection Optimism and Strategy are both on Auto. I then go to Edit Players and use the sliders to change each players Fantasy points and upside to match my projections. I hit done after each player. When finished with all the players for a position, I hit the little X at the top to close the window. The software looks like it accepts them as it adjusts the list all around and gives new retail amounts, which look right. I then go back into the Rankings to adjust the other positions and the ones I had just changed have reverted back to the original.
I have tried creating a new profile to capture my rankings and it seems to be a bit more reliable, but I have still lost my updates after adjusting the projection optimism and strategy sliders. I have been working around it by using a created profile for my team. But I feel like I have entered my projections like 20 times.
A method of entering user projections and it saving them for use on the slider would be my dream come true and make this a pretty complete package for my use anyway. I love that you can adjust the other teams rankings. I make at least one of the other teams use my rankings other wise I get the same guys that I think are undervalued in every mock, that way I only get them at good prices sometimes and it forces me to have viable back up strategies.
I understand not every one does projections but if you are much higher on lower on a guy than consensus its nice to have a way to enter it reliably.
Thanks again for the help.
I am running on Windows 10, latest published version from the site. Auction draft, no keepers.
I go in to the Rankings button on a new non-started mock draft and go to the Default User profile. Projection Optimism and Strategy are both on Auto. I then go to Edit Players and use the sliders to change each players Fantasy points and upside to match my projections. I hit done after each player. When finished with all the players for a position, I hit the little X at the top to close the window. The software looks like it accepts them as it adjusts the list all around and gives new retail amounts, which look right. I then go back into the Rankings to adjust the other positions and the ones I had just changed have reverted back to the original.
I have tried creating a new profile to capture my rankings and it seems to be a bit more reliable, but I have still lost my updates after adjusting the projection optimism and strategy sliders. I have been working around it by using a created profile for my team. But I feel like I have entered my projections like 20 times.
A method of entering user projections and it saving them for use on the slider would be my dream come true and make this a pretty complete package for my use anyway. I love that you can adjust the other teams rankings. I make at least one of the other teams use my rankings other wise I get the same guys that I think are undervalued in every mock, that way I only get them at good prices sometimes and it forces me to have viable back up strategies.
I understand not every one does projections but if you are much higher on lower on a guy than consensus its nice to have a way to enter it reliably.
Thanks again for the help.
dkp993
Footballguy
bagger
Footballguy
well that's unfortunate. i will have to download and play with it but i like to customize my projections and not sure how much you can do that with the new app. it looks like you can adjust rankings and points but without looking at historical stats that's easier said than done.
Simon Shepherd
Footballguy
Thanks and I'll look into this again.
The editing full projections thing is in the request list. We'd need to have a think about how we do that.
Simon Shepherd
Footballguy
The new app is available on desktop now. http://www.footballguys.com/footballguys-dominator-mobile.php
DD Classic will continue to work with PD Classic.
The new app will not ever work with PD classic. But it will have a bunch of inseason tools we're putting together now that it integrates with through the new FBG Cloud.
Simon Shepherd
Footballguy
3rd vote added to customized projections. I'll be up front with you guys! My main major concern with this is putting together a whole UI for editing projections is tough to do for a relatively low amount of people. Would you guys be prepared to come up with projections in a CSV format with footballguys IDs included? If there was a sample excel file to download that included historial stats?
I guess I'm trying to gauge specifically what you guys want. Is it the Projections Dominator with full info and a system that equalizes say a QB's projected yards out with all his receivers? Or are you happy to work in excel (like I know Dodds et all do) and just import those results into the Draft app?
abbottjamesr
Footballguy
I'm happy to do it in excel. I do all my projections there already. I just need to have the ability to attach my projections to my rankings profile and at least 1 other team.
Thank you
abbottjamesr
Footballguy
the UI you have now in the adjust ranking screen would work for me. I just need a way to save it and reuse it for other profiles.
Gottabesweet
Footballguy
All I want is MYFBG to work and sync up my CBS roster :(
Ruffrodys05
IBL Representative
Add another vote for full integration of user projections into new DD.
Frankly, in my eyes, this new DD should be able to do everything the classic does (it doesn't) with full compatability to use a Projections Dominator to do custom projections.
Frankly, in my eyes, this new DD should be able to do everything the classic does (it doesn't) with full compatability to use a Projections Dominator to do custom projections.
Simon Shepherd
Footballguy
We're working hard on this too.Gottabesweet said:
Simon Shepherd
Footballguy
That's one way of looking at it.Ruffrodys05 said:
Another is, Footballguys are (finally) responding to user feedback to make their drafting tool better, just gave you another tool to use and try out for the subscription price, and one that fully works on mac and linux too.
And a tool that has a bunch of stuff that the classic DD doesn't, and the most insanely advanced rankings algorithm that blows away anything else out there.
bagger
Footballguy
i like how it is in the PD currently where i can look at the last few years of stats, see how the experts project, and then adjust if i need to. i don't care if the totals foot back into passing yards etc., but would prefer to do it within the app compared to excel just like the PD currently works. not sure how that impacts you on the back end if that is a viable solution without creating a massive headache on the programming side.Simon Shepherd said:
I'm using the new DD for an auction mock for the first time, and the bids that the CPU makes seem extremely high. $81 for Brown, $63 for Bell, etc. The FBG drat list has the top value at $45 (for Brown).
Is there anything I can do to get the mock values more in line with the FBG draft list?
Is there anything I can do to get the mock values more in line with the FBG draft list?
Ruffrodys05
IBL Representative
It's really the only way I'm looking at it Simon. In my eyes the new DD should be able to do EVERYTHING (yes everything) old DD did.....AND integrate the new algorithms and whatever other improvements you are touting. Otherwise, its not an improvement, its an adjustment to the technological times. Responding to 10 years of user feedback (FINALLY) is all great and wonderful....I'm ECSTATIC about that. And while the new DD has these advanced algorithms to utulize......well......there is some functionality lost in this upgrade. You can't deny that. IT IS NOT on par functionally (user projections, ease of use) with the classic. You can claim factually that the new DD has a bunch of stuff the old doesn't but, you know it is severely lacking in some things that the Classic could handle but the new DD cannot.
While I do understand that FBG is trying to streamline apps for company cost efficiency, the end result for the new DD isn't cutting it compared to Classic. It doesn't come close to the functionality of the Classic (and it's compatability with Projections Dominator Classic.) You know this by specific posts in this thread.
I understand lots of folks will be thrilled with the new DD. Congrats on bringing in more subscribers who have no clue what the original was capable of. They will be bappy. But, for those of us (namely me!) that have used the Classic for 10+ years, it's not at all better.
* Classic DD is compatable with Windows XP, new DD is not.
* Classic DD can handle user projections (based on multi-year tendencies), new DD can not.
* Classic DD is easier to set up complicated leagues, new is DD not.
If FBG wants to streamline this app and tout it as its groundbreaking, state of the art, can't be beat drafting app......well, it needs a lot of work. IT CAN BE BEAT. By the Classic. Which I will (again) be using this year.
Rody
ebcpastor2004
Footballguy
Will it ever be able to incorporate MFL import?
Simon Shepherd
Footballguy
Hi Rody. Specifically on your 3 points...
- New DD works on an insanely higher % of computers than Classic DD does (full mac support!) XP usage is 0.5% now.
- No we can't handle this yet. Absolutely if this is key to your workflow use Classic DD this year. Let's see what we come up with next year.
- Completely disagree with you on the complicated league setup. I believe you're basing this on your experience with a testing and buggy version of the app. These issues are to the best of my knowledge now resolved.
We'll continue to work hard on it. No-one is saying this is a finished, end of the line product. So let's not judge it like it is. You guys have given us great feedback. The more you can give us the better we can make the product. No-one is claiming this is the can't be beat draft app for everyone, yet.
But it's absolutely for sure at a point where we wanted to get this out to you guys. Why hold it back for another year in an attempt to feature match everything to DD Classic? A huge number of users we can see are using the new desktop app every day and we are getting some really positive feedback to it. There's no requirement for us to 100% feature match the DD Classic while the latter is still available. I don't understand why you think differently there.
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Simon Shepherd
Footballguy
I would have to be honest and say that is a much harder task than the excel import. I need to dig into projections dominator too and get 100% familiar with exactly what that does.
Simon Shepherd
Footballguy
That doesn't sound like standard behavior. I'd like to take a look at your league settings there if you could PM me your login username/email and the name of the league.
But if you add a new rankings profile and assign the other teams to it, turning auto strategy off and moving the studs and duds slider to the left will sort this out.
Simon Shepherd
Footballguy
Yes. We're working on that tech right now. I think realistically that's going to be a 2017 feature for this app though.
CalBear
Footballguy
I think the lack of visibility into the baselines and calculations makes it a pretty significantly different product than the classic DD. It's not just that the features are different, it's that it's targeted at people who don't care where the rankings are coming from. With the old DD you could see the massive differences in rankings depending on whether you're using Joe's Secret Formula or Worst Starter or Maurile's Auction Method, and choose the one that made the most sense for you, or build your own. With this app it's just "trust us."
That's fine for a lot of people, but for those of us who know that there are multiple ways to value players, it's a pretty big step down from Classic DD. Why should I trust this one more than Rotowire's or anyone else's? Credibility comes from transparency.
That's fine for a lot of people, but for those of us who know that there are multiple ways to value players, it's a pretty big step down from Classic DD. Why should I trust this one more than Rotowire's or anyone else's? Credibility comes from transparency.
Simon Shepherd
Footballguy
I think there's a very valid criticism in there; we're not going to "hand over the keys" for $5 on the app stores but you guys deserve more (for $35).
But I would disagree we're only targetting "tell me what to do" fantasy players. There is an insane amount of customization you can do here not only to your own rankings but to the rankings the other teams use too.
You should be able to see the VBD scores change though for a specific league.
And on Secret Formula vs Worst Starter, I think it's more that we're making an effort here to consolidate into one approach that has the best of all elements. But we still have those strategy sliders. That's a huge element of build your own approach.
I would be very happy to do subscriber-only webinars where you guys can fire questions at me as to how the rankings consider this or that.
In trying to get this down to actionable tasks, how do these sound:
- there's clear VBD columns right now. we could add columns for positional need and the other strategy sliders so you guys get more transparency there
- we could report back on the positional adjustments screen the current VBD baselines and allow these to be edited by entering a number directly
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CalBear
Footballguy
What I'd like is to be able to set custom VBD baselines by point value per position. I'd settle for custom VBD baselines by rank per position.
The sliders allow customization of a sort, but because it's not clear what's actually happening when you move a slider, it's just spitballing. I could do that myself. Is it changing the baseline? Applying a multiplier?
Going back to my auction league. With our scoring, and default settings other than that, I see this near the top:
- Drew Brees: $24.50, FPTs 401, VBD Start 49
- Todd Gurley: $24.50, FPTs 177, VBD Start 67
Why is Jared Goff down at QB23 with -74 VBD Start points still pulling $3, same as Devante Parker who's an above-baseline WR?
I'm asking specific questions here, but the issue is more general. I'd like to see the terms you're using defined, the algorithms discussed, and more control of what's going on.
Simon Shepherd
Footballguy
Did you read through the instruction manual? There's a ton there. VBD start = points above worse starter. VBD bench = points above worst rostered player. But obv not all bench players go for $1, hence Goff.
For sure a lot of terms are defined there.
Would a webinar help in defining the terms?
The positional adjustments is adjusting the point at which the baseline is taken. We can split that out a bit better so you know exactly what you're controlling there.
Deamon
Footballguy
Thinking about getting this but love the old version (which I use on my mac desktop). If you download the new one does that mean you have to get rid of the old one first? Or can I continue to run both?
Also, I'm sure its been discussed a lot in here but can anyone sum up the pros and cons of using the new ap in a couple points?
Also, I'm sure its been discussed a lot in here but can anyone sum up the pros and cons of using the new ap in a couple points?
Simon Shepherd
Footballguy
You can run both and we absolutely encourage everyone to give this a go and let us know their thoughts.
Pros:
- cloud data syncs across mobile devices
- available just the same on macs, linux
- new and improved rankings algorithms and some new features (e.g. rankings profiles, player upside)
Cons:
- you can't run the exact same window arrangement as classic/can't get quite as much on the screen at one time
- some advanced features and data missing from classic
- some customizations missing (e.g. colors of positions)
Obviously it's best to see it for yourself. Free for all, data updates only for subscribers. http://www.footballguys.com/footballguys-dominator-mobile.php
Simon Shepherd
Footballguy
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Simon Shepherd
Footballguy
CalBear
Footballguy
I don't see anything in the instruction manual about the difference between VBD Start and VBD bench; all it has is a terse explanation of VBD.Simon Shepherd said:
Take a look at this article. http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=13bryant_vbd
That's Joe Bryant's original article on VBD. It explains what the concept is, what the logic is, and why it's important. It's a fine article that made an impact in the game, and is an example of the kind of thing that made Footballguys the place to go for people who are quantitatively focused. There are plenty of other similar articles from Drinen, Stuart, and the rest of the crew over the years that have this kind of detailed analysis.
I don't see anywhere that the calculations being done by the new DD are being described in a way that a user can evaluate their agreement or disagreement with the methods. I've always thought Joe's Secret Formula was wrong, for example, and thus I never used it, but that was my choice based on hearing the logic behind the numbers. "obv not all bench players go for $1, hence Goff" is not an explanation that's useful to me. If I had just $4 to allocate, and I had to choose between $3 for a QB23 and $1 for a baseline WR, or $3 for Devante Parker and $1 for a backup QB, which should I do?
I think it's pretty unlikely that QB23 is worth more than $1 in a $100 12-team start-1 league. Frankly, with the difference between QB9 and QB17 being only 22 points, it's hard to see even QB12 being worth much more than $1. Would you really pay $9 for Derek Carr with Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Tony Romo and Andy Dalton on the board? That's what the new DD says you should do. Carr is projected to score 12 points more than Flacco. Would someone who took one of the top 12 QBs really pay $8 for Flacco? (Answers: No, and no. Flacco went for $3 in our league last year.)
In the new DD, there's no way I can fix what I view as a fundamental problem in the calculations. It's allocating probably $50-$75 too much of the pool money to QBs. If I crank the QB positional adjustment all the way down, the backup QB values fall in line, but the top QB values drop too much. And the Studs and Duds behavior seems completely random. With Studs and Duds in the middle, Cam Newton is worth $14.75. With Studs and Duds at the right, he's worth $14. With Studs and Duds at the left, he's worth $13. That makes no sense.
rrobb
Footballguy
It's not just auctions either. It pushes backup QBs far too early than they go in my main redraft league. And doesn't value defenses in the same way as my main league does. Playing around with the slider bars works to some degree, but not as well as saying that 5 QB's will be drafted by Round 4...which is what I can do with a custom ADP_User file in DD. I may not be able to import an ADP_User file, but if the tool allowed me to enter my previous few years' positional drafts manually, I could still achieve the same result. At the moment, that is not possible.
I do see the new Dominator as much improved over the 2015 version. The look and feel is slick! It is sweet for doing mock after mock after mock! I love the fact that it syncs between devices! There are promises of fantastic in season capabilities. I like the Position Tiers too. But, without the ability to do a custom ADP_User and tweak the algorithm to my league's tendencies and integrate with PD, I won't be using it on Draft Night. I appreciate the work that has gone into it and think it's worth the extra $$$ but, I am MUCH more comfortable with the results I get using DD, PD and the VBD spreadsheet over the new app. Just my 2 cents...
RR
tdoss
Footballguy
I didn't see it listed in the "Cons" so I assume it was either resolved or forgotten:Simon Shepherd said:
I'd like to setup my league and hold my draft on my laptop and then email that file to my work PC and be able to upload it to my draft dominator at work.
Is that available now or no?
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BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
Simon Shepherd
Footballguy
That article is in the app ;-) I've read it in huge detail because I had to strip it of all HTML tags to appease google!
What I'm trying to do as much as possible is listen to what you guys think are problems and turn them into points of action. Please let me know how this sounds...
- Ability to adjust starter VBD and bench VBD separately
- I'm going to have a look at backup QBs in a standard league this morning and see if I can replicate this. If I can, I'll fix it.
I'm not going to try to provide detailed explanations of the algorithm on here; and obviously there isn't some code either that's going if (some set of bench players) { ensureOneGoesForMoreThan$1(); }. So yes that Goff explanation is definitely not enough for you in this situation.
I would love to write an article for the site explaining the DD approach. I'm not sure that's the right thing to do though. I feel like the tool should explain itself sufficiently. So I guess I'd prefer a conversation with you guys on here where you point out (exactly as CalBear has done here) what you feel needs explaining.
With my suggestion above you'd be able to see the baselines for starters and bench. The start VBD and bench VBD numbers are then 100% transparent. It's the player's FPts column less the baselines.
There's so much going on behind the scenes in the app. For instance FPts is not just total fantasy points at all. As that would hurt for instance Brady. The calculation gives them some credit for the games they'll miss there too. Where would you guys want to see that calculation? Do you mind that the app is doing that? Would you like the option to turn it off? Or do you just want to know exactly how much credit he's getting? Our opinion is that if you're not doing that there's no way you're making a huge mistake.
On Cam Newton and studs and duds. A completely blank auction league with the slider in the middle has him at $33. Slider all the way left (ie, not Studs and Duds) has him $23. All the way to the right has him at $46. So if you could PM me your login to the app and the name of the league I can specifically take a look at that league.
So on these algorithm-related points I'm not sure at this stage what the action we can do is. But I'm grateful that I know you guys will continue to discuss it with me!
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Simon Shepherd
Footballguy
Simon Shepherd
Footballguy
Custom ADP lists added to the feature request list. This would actually be fairly easy for us to implement as Evan put a bunch of time in to accept lists in this format. The only thing we'd need to know is if it's a general list for all leagues or a specific list for your league, because we have some code we apply to ADP (which is obviously the former) that customizes it to your league. E.g. to make sure that kickers and defense go in the correct places.
And the other thing there too is the app is and will be completely able to still have each team in the draft consider positional need.
Simon Shepherd
Footballguy
That pros and cons list is absolutely not definitive or absolute at all; I was just trying to respond with IMO the 3 most important points either way. Our waffle.io board has an Ideas column with 27 feature requests in it, most of which are a result of this thread.
So absolutely not forgotten! But when we do do it, it'll work through your cloud account so the whole thing is seamless. The one thing this'll probably require is an internet connection at the point that you open that draft. Drafts are huge data stores so syncing them all the time in the background is probably not the most efficient way; so the app will probably only download drafts in full at the point that you try to open them.
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Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
This is all I am interested in as far as the mobile version goes. I have no issue bringing a laptop to the draft and using DD classic, but why does it run an inferior algorithm? I have noticed in recent years that I've had to override the DD suggestion at a certain pick because I felt another made more sense.
Simon Shepherd
Footballguy
We've not been able to invest the time in DD Classic; the most basic reason is its a windows app. When it was first written, that was the perfect solution as an overwhelming number of people ran windows. Now though, it's not at all the case that all desktops that run windows (https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0) - and mobile has been invented and overtaken desktops by usage (https://www.comscore.com/Insights/Blog/Mobile-Internet-Usage-Skyrockets-in-Past-4-Years-to-Overtake-Desktop-as-Most-Used-Digital-Platform).
So simply put, if we're investing in two separate draft apps, we can do half as much (and have to make sure they always tell you guys the same thing - which would mean we can't make an improvement to one without the other).
This new app is our answer to those challenges. And the reason the DD Classic is still available and this thread exists is because we know it's not perfect and we are in a position to make the changes that you guys want.
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