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Advice Needed - Family Situation (1 Viewer)

T

Tom Skerritt

Footballguy
Family relationship... my family lives in the Midwest, the relatives and their families live on the East Coast.

About a year ago, I was asked by one of my aunts to write a character reference letter on behalf of her son. It was requested to be somewhat of a professional/personal letter of reference. I had asked what the letter was going to be used for, and I was simply told that it was for an "opportunity". When I pressed further, I was given very vague information, and it it just didn't seem on the up-and-up. I politely declined, as I was not willing to stake my professional reputation on the line for something where I felt that I was not being given all of the information. Everyone in the family loves this cousin. He is very fun, friendly, and a charming personality. But it is also well known that he has a checkered past with drugs and alcohol and other irresponsible behavior. So that is why I declined.

Believing that this was just a very odd request, I contacted a closer, more-trusted relative to me - someone who is much more intimate with the family involved in this situation. I mentioned the request for the letter and the circumstances around it, and I asked if she knew anything about it. She told me that she had no idea what this was about.

Fast forward, and I have now come to find out that the cousin in question is being tried for attempted kidnapping, and several other predatory sexual crimes of minors. I have also come to find out that my close, more-trusted relative knew about this the whole time. And she had asked other family members not to say anything in their attempts to keep it from me. Not exactly sure why, but I suspect that the family just wanted to keep things quiet. And I get that. But if you are asking me to write a letter of reference, how about just tell me why? And also, I have a young daughter. My daughter likes this cousin. They have not spent more than a few moments together, and I certainly do not suspect that anything happened. But it just makes things weird and complicated.

So, here is where my questions lie. This close, more-trusted relative is supposed to watch my kids later this year when my wife and I are out of town. She does not yet know that we know all of these details.

1. I am pretty outraged at all of this. Should I be?

2. Do I let my relative watch my children? Obviously this relationship is changed now.

3. How do I proceed? Just looking for options. Pretty sure that we will do something at some point.

P and S - I found all of this out from another trusted family member who was previously asked not to say anything. And it is likely that this person will be known to have told if/when this all comes out.

 
1. No. When shame is involved people tend to guard information. Nobody was trying to pull a fast one on you.

2. Yes. He/she was in the middle and put in a difficult situation. It wasn't his/her place to divulge information and they played dumb which was the best of a few crappy options.

3. Proceed as normal. On a scale of 1 to 10.  1 being nothing, 10 being the worst thing ever, this was a 1.5. Whether or not you wrote the letter nothing was ever going to happen to your professional reputation.

 
1. I would be outraged, yes. 

2. Trust your gut. If you need time to cool off, it's understandable and you shouldn't feel guilty about that. Or let her watch the kids and use it as an opportunity to talk and try to reach an understanding. It's hard to say without knowing you or her or the relationship. I'd probably cancel and find another sitter but that's because I'm cold and unforgiving.

3. Allow yourself to be pissed off, let time pass, talk about it with the people involved and hopefully forgive eventually. :shrug:  

 
Should you be angry at being lied to. Absolutely

Should you be angry that you were asked to write a reference for a person being tried for sexual misconduct and kidnapping. Absolutely

Should that affect the relationship with your aunt and the person that lied to you. Obviously.

But you knew this already, why did you ask?

 
You should absolutely be outraged. They tried to get a character reference letter for use in court under false pretenses.  Which means they tried to use your good name to lie to the court.  That's not ok.

Letting the trusted relative watch your daughter comes down to how much you trust the relative so I don't think any of us can really comment  

 
1)  Yes, once they asked you to put your reputation on the line, you were owed a much more detailed picture of the situation.  Ask the friends of Brock Turner what writing a character reference did for them.  :unsure:   "An opportunity"  Lolz...#### them.

2)  If you're not comfortable with that person watching your kids, don't let them.  Simple.

3) Let it all play out, but just know what you know and don't implicate the relative that actually told you. 

 
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Long Ball Larry said:
That seems like exactly what they were doing in trying to get the letter written.
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I don't see it that way.  They asked for a character reference letter.  They didn't ask him to lie and didn't ask for a proclamation of innocence. Their son is being charged with some serious stuff. It must be a nightmare for them and something that they don't want the whole world to know about. I don't know that I'd be thinking of the ramifications of not being 100% forthright in why i was requesting a family member (who was fond of the kid) write a character reference letter if I were in their situation.

 
Willie Neslon said:
I don't see it that way.  They asked for a character reference letter.  They didn't ask him to lie and didn't ask for a proclamation of innocence. Their son is being charged with some serious stuff. It must be a nightmare for them and something that they don't want the whole world to know about. I don't know that I'd be thinking of the ramifications of not being 100% forthright in why i was requesting a family member (who was fond of the kid) write a character reference letter if I were in their situation.
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They  asked the OP to vouch for the character of this guy yet did not divulge that he has some serious character issues.  That's as good as lying in my book.

 
Willie Neslon said:
I don't see it that way.  They asked for a character reference letter.  They didn't ask him to lie and didn't ask for a proclamation of innocence. Their son is being charged with some serious stuff. It must be a nightmare for them and something that they don't want the whole world to know about. I don't know that I'd be thinking of the ramifications of not being 100% forthright in why i was requesting a family member (who was fond of the kid) write a character reference letter if I were in their situation.
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This is real simple - you don't ask somebody for a character reference to give to a court without telling them what it's for.  Somebody could unknowingly vouch for someone who ends up being a child molestor and then people find out - that's a pretty ####ty thing to do to someone.  If they don't want people finding out then stop ####### asking for a reference.

Good luck Tom - you seem like a good dude - sorry you are going through this.

 
Uh yeah, i'd be pissed if i almost wrote a character reference for a child molester. And that close trusted relative wouldn't be nearly as close or trusted anymore. 

 
Sconch said:
They  asked the OP to vouch for the character of this guy yet did not divulge that he has some serious character issues.  That's as good as lying in my book.
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He's been charged, not convicted. OP is going to write what he knows anyway.  "Everyone in the family loves this cousin. He is very fun, friendly, and a charming personality. But it is also well known that he has a checkered past with drugs and alcohol and other irresponsible behavior." He could have written a character reference saying basically this and the aunt's family could have decided whether or not to use it.  Sterling reputation would have remained unscathed. 

 
Willie Neslon said:
He's been charged, not convicted. OP is going to write what he knows anyway.  "Everyone in the family loves this cousin. He is very fun, friendly, and a charming personality. But it is also well known that he has a checkered past with drugs and alcohol and other irresponsible behavior." He could have written a character reference saying basically this and the aunt's family could have decided whether or not to use it.  Sterling reputation would have remained unscathed. 
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That would go nuclear in most families. Best just to decline.

 
Willie Neslon said:
He's been charged, not convicted. OP is going to write what he knows anyway.  "Everyone in the family loves this cousin. He is very fun, friendly, and a charming personality. But it is also well known that he has a checkered past with drugs and alcohol and other irresponsible behavior." He could have written a character reference saying basically this and the aunt's family could have decided whether or not to use it.  Sterling reputation would have remained unscathed. 
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Ok...Cousin has been ACCUSED of some horrible things.  Asking the OP to vouch for cousin without disclosing the accusations is as good as lying.

 
I would be pissed at the aunt.  I think the other relative was stuck.  They likely promised not to talk about it so when you asked they were put in a crappy position.  Either they break the promise or they lie to you.  I would be pissed if they made something up, but an "I don't know" seems like a pretty neutral response given the circumstances.

 
AAABatteries said:
This is real simple - you don't ask somebody for a character reference to give to a court without telling them what it's for.  Somebody could unknowingly vouch for someone who ends up being a child molestor and then people find out - that's a pretty ####ty thing to do to someone.  If they don't want people finding out then stop ####### asking for a reference.
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Who would "find out"?  I've never heard of someone being vilified for saying a family member was a good kid, no matter what the kid did. Again, they weren't asking for a declaration of innocence, merely some background character reference. "Growing up, Johnny was kind and well liked. Etc."  How does that sink ones reputation?  The kid hasn't been convicted of anything.

 
1) I don't think you should be outraged but I do understand that would likely be my feeling.  I would take some time to let that pass before you make any decisions on family.

2) After the anger has subsided, have an honest conversation with said relative and go from there.  My guess is that this conversation will be a relief for your relative and that you will not feel like they are someone you can not trust.  

3) You played your cards right up to this point by not doing the character reference, which was very justified.  Wait it out a bit and have those honest conversations with the family members involved.  

Dishonesty aside, it should be quite flattering that you are someone that they consider that a court would see as a good reference.  And also said before but this is a messed up situation for all involved.   Perhaps through all of this there is room for some growth, as crisis can bond people together.  I'd approach it from that angle. 

Question:  How old is the nephew, and how old is the girl that he apparently was living with if I'm to infer a story from the limited information of charges?

 

 
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1) If you are outraged, then be outraged. You have no control over what you naturally feel. Even if 99% of people wouldn't be, it's not wrong that you are. I probably would be, but again so what? I'm not you. 

2) Put your kids first. If you have a better option use it. Don't put how your relative might feel being "fired" above the safety of your kids.

3) This really depends on the results of #2. 

 
1. I am pretty outraged at all of this. Should I be? Outraged seems strong, but I think I would be upset. It sounds like you were being intentionally misled by the first party and flat out lied to by the second (more trusted) party.

2. Do I let my relative watch my children? Obviously this relationship is changed now. If you thought this person was trustworthy enough to watch your kids before, she probably still is. You found out that she is willing to lie to keep a family issue private, not that she is untrustworthy with children.

3. How do I proceed? Just looking for options. Pretty sure that we will do something at some point. I think you have to talk with this family member who lied to you before she watches your children. Make it clear why you feel like you were disrespected in this situation and see how she responds. If she thinks you are overreacting or goes way out of her way to defend her actions, I might have second thoughts about letting my kids stay with her.

 
What would be the damage to OP's reputation if the kid was convicted and the letter somehow "got out"?  That OP saw the good in a non-immediate family member with a checkered past? 

 
Willie Neslon said:
He's been charged, not convicted. OP is going to write what he knows anyway.  "Everyone in the family loves this cousin. He is very fun, friendly, and a charming personality. But it is also well known that he has a checkered past with drugs and alcohol and other irresponsible behavior." He could have written a character reference saying basically this and the aunt's family could have decided whether or not to use it.  Sterling reputation would have remained unscathed. 
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But if you were writing due to an "opportunity," you wouldn't use the checkered past information. That's why the context is so important.

 
Willie Neslon said:
What would be the damage to OP's reputation if the kid was convicted and the letter somehow "got out"?  That OP saw the good in a non-immediate family member with a checkered past? 
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:confused:  

"So you wrote a letter for a child molester?"

"Well he's a cousin of mine and when I wrote the letter not knowing what he was accused of."

"That actually seems a little worse. Vouching for someone without knowing their whole story."

 
Reboot. Cancel the trip. Schedule another one, get someone else to watch the children.

I'd spend some time recalibrating the relationship with the relatives including the one who was to watch the kids. I'd be pissed, absolutely you should not have been hung out to dry like that. That stuff can be reported in the papers for instance. It can get back to normal but give it time and fully clear the air.

 
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Willie Neslon said:
What would be the damage to OP's reputation if the kid was convicted and the letter somehow "got out"?  That OP saw the good in a non-immediate family member with a checkered past? 
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We live in a world where people overreact and get offended at much less. His professional reputation COULD have been affected. 

 
Sconch said:
:confused:  

"So you wrote a letter for a child molester?"

"Well he's a cousin of mine and when I wrote the letter not knowing what he was accused of."

"That actually seems a little worse. Vouching for someone without knowing their whole story."
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In what fantasy land would this conversation happen?

 
Shutting out family because they were evasive over reasons for a reference is making a mountain out of a molehill.  The real mountain here is a family member who "everyone loves" may be going to jail for a very long time because he made a poor decision. Geez.

 
Willie Neslon said:
Shutting out family because they were evasive over reasons for a reference is making a mountain out of a molehill.  The real mountain here is a family member who "everyone loves" may be going to jail for a very long time because he made a poor decision. Geez.
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Everyone loved Ted Bundy too. Doesn't mean he didn't deserve his punishment.

 
Appreciate all of the feedback. As Despyzer wrote, I think outrage might be a little strong. I am angry, and I feel a little betrayed. I still trust my relative, but I am upset that she could not be honest with me. I understand that this is a difficult situation for everyone.

 
Sconch said:
The same one where leaving our crucial details when asking someone a favor isn't "lying".
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The only lie that was told was by the second relative who claimed to not know.  That relative was put in an impossible position.  Tell the truth and betray the aunt or play dumb and potentially upset OP if he found out she knew.

 
Willie Neslon said:
Shutting out family because they were evasive over reasons for a reference is making a mountain out of a molehill.  The real mountain here is a family member who "everyone loves" may be going to jail for a very long time because he made a poor decision. Geez.
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Stealing a car stereo to pay the rent is a poor decision. The cousin is an accused kidnapper and pedophile. If I wrote a character reference and then found out it was used for that, and it turned out the cousin was guilty and kids were victimized, I'd be beyond livid. That is unbelievably ####ed up.

 
Willie Neslon said:
Shutting out family because they were evasive over reasons for a reference is making a mountain out of a molehill.  The real mountain here is a family member who "everyone loves" may be going to jail for a very long time because he made a poor decision. Geez.
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Yes.

In general, advice when dealing with family here tends to be unrealistic. 

Everyone is all high and mighty,  scorched earth,  and "never speak to ever again" when it's your family. 

I don't believe these answers would be so easy if it was their only family,  as it is yours. 

 
Willie Neslon said:
Shutting out family because they were evasive over reasons for a reference is making a mountain out of a molehill.  The real mountain here is a family member who "everyone loves" may be going to jail for a very long time because he made a poor decision. Geez.
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"Poor decision"?

 
Willie Neslon said:
The only lie that was told was by the second relative who claimed to not know.  That relative was put in an impossible position.  Tell the truth and betray the aunt or play dumb and potentially upset OP if he found out she knew.
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I guess that's the crux then.

 
Willie Neslon said:
The only lie that was told was by the second relative who claimed to not know. 
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So if your kid was going to trial for kidnapping and several counts of predatory sex crimes on minors, you would also characterize that as an opportunity?

 
McGarnicle said:
Stealing a car stereo to pay the rent is a poor decision. The cousin is an accused kidnapper and pedophile. If I wrote a character reference and then found out it was used for that, and it turned out the cousin was guilty and kids were victimized, I'd be beyond livid. That is unbelievably ####ed up.
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Maybe OP is 19 had his 17 year old girlfriend sleep over in a hotel with him. You have no idea what the facts are and what actually happened. Again, he has not been convicted of anything.

OP didn't even write the letter.  He's asking should he be pissed off for potential damage to his rep if he wrote a letter that he didn't write.  What if he actually wrote the letter?  Would you guys be pushing him to sue?

 
Despyzer said:
So if your kid was going to trial for kidnapping and several counts of predatory sex crimes on minors, you would also characterize that as an opportunity?
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Would I?  No.  Technically speaking he does have an opportunity at either beating the (potentially bogus) charges or if not, a lighter sentence.

 
The question I have is if Aunt was completely forthright about the situation and charges, would OP have written the letter?

 
Willie Neslon said:
Would I?  No.  Technically speaking he does have an opportunity at either beating the (potentially bogus) charges or if not, a lighter sentence.
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So at best it was purposefully misleading. I don't think I'm going to be tickled about that. 

 
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