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Black lives matter

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36 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

I think you answer your own questions by the end.  We'd like cops to both prevent crimes and enforce laws.  Having strong ties to the community can help prevent crimes.  When there is fear and mistrust of the police, that's much harder to do.  Crimes can be prevented without doing stop and frisks.  And, yes, having resources like the NST and mental health specialists to help the police are great ideas.

The mental health thing is a huge problem in a lot of things. And i don't mean in just policing.  We spend tons of money on health care but we ignore Mental Health.

For the trust thing it is a two sided coin.  If cops feel threatened for their life they are going to react(like the LA cops getting shot for just sitting in their car and then having people showing up yelling they hope the cops die).  If cops hassle people for no reason then citizens aren't going to trust them.  It would be interesting to see the tatics the Street team uses to engage with the community...

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5 minutes ago, PinkydaPimp said:

What does this have to do with the root issues?  Also do you think a republican in power changes things?  See i dont believe the root issue is the party in power necessarily.  So whether things got better or not when dems were in power is not something that is in my opinion important for fixing the root issues.  Now having said that i do think that havign the right person in power AND control of congress does have an impact in this.  But generally speaking, i dont get the impression that conservatives have my best interests in mind.  But i take that on a case by case basis.  I constantly see people pointing to the dems sand saying try republican but i think you are missing the point.  But i am all ears.  Do you think that will help fix these specific issues?  If so how?  btw im not saying the entire party is the same.  So if you have a specific person that has great ideas to resolve systemic racism im all ears and would potentially vote for them as would many others.  But i think the reason you have seen black people primary vote democrat is more because it better aligns with our goals.  But i will be the first to tell you that it hasnt fixed these issues.  Im not a biden fan AT ALL.  But i will be damned if i allow trump to win again.

As for Republicans they do a rotten job at outreach to the African American community.  Things like school choice and economic opprotunity zones are popular with everyone.  In fact the first president to use economic zones was Pres. Clinton.

In the end the parties don't address a lot of things. They are only interested in gaining power.  I spent 10 years working in the White House over the 3 previous administrations.  They were all pretty much the same only interested in keeping or gaining power.

As for systemic racism please tell me where you see it.  I am not saying that you are wrong.  And you feel the racism so feel free to tell me.( I am actually interested)

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36 minutes ago, NightStalkers said:

As for Republicans they do a rotten job at outreach to the African American community.  Things like school choice and economic opprotunity zones are popular with everyone.  In fact the first president to use economic zones was Pres. Clinton.

In the end the parties don't address a lot of things. They are only interested in gaining power.  I spent 10 years working in the White House over the 3 previous administrations.  They were all pretty much the same only interested in keeping or gaining power.

As for systemic racism please tell me where you see it.  I am not saying that you are wrong.  And you feel the racism so feel free to tell me.( I am actually interested)

on a call right now but start with this:  https://youtu.be/4TZb2n-XLRU

Let me know what specific questions you have after im happy to answer.

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9 minutes ago, PinkydaPimp said:

on a call right now but start with this:  https://youtu.be/4TZb2n-XLRU

Let me know what specific questions you have after im happy to answer.

I see three things being brought up here.  Policing/prison reform, Redlining, and education.

I agree that policing/prison reform is needed.  Ironic the latest of these reforms at the national level was done by Trump, who i have said i am not a fan of.

As far as i know redlining and loan discrimination is against the law.

Education.  We both agree that education needs to be reformed.  But it isn't always about money unlike what the video alludes too.

An example is 3 localities in and near MD.  Montgomery county spends about 16.1k per student, Baltimore spends about 16.5k per student, and Washington DC spends about 22k per student.  Montgomery gets the best results.  Supposedly these 3 jurisdictions are in the top 5 percent of all counties/ cities in America.  And DC/MD/Northern Virginia is the richest urban area in America i would think.  MD especially is rich.  That is why i like the school choice voucher idea.  Competition could help get the kids the education they need.  We do it for colleges, why not give vouchers out to parents and let them decide where they send the kids.

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23 minutes ago, NightStalkers said:

As far as i know redlining and loan discrimination is against the law.

Is it though?  Even if it is "against the law" doesnt mean it doesnt happen.  See this which has been posted numerous times in this thread: https://projects.newsday.com/long-island/real-estate-discrimination-history/

I can tell you from first hand experience this happens.  When i was house hunting in nice neighborhoods i would video tape houses that i toured so i could review them again later.  I captured so much realtor steering on video and people trying to suggest i should look in towns that were as they felt a better fit.  Even in the neighborhood i grew up in.

23 minutes ago, NightStalkers said:

Education.  We both agree that education needs to be reformed.  But it isn't always about money unlike what the video alludes too.

On paper sure.  But if the money is not in black neighborhoods and blacks are relgated to poor neighborhoods due to historical red lining and real estate discrimination then is it about money?  Or is the root problem the discrimination or the reason we are forced into these neighborhoods?  Also for the record, i feel that poor neighborhoods regardless of race deserve an equal education to wealthy neighborhoods but thats another topic.

23 minutes ago, NightStalkers said:

An example is 3 localities in and near MD.  Montgomery county spends about 16.1k per student, Baltimore spends about 16.5k per student, and Washington DC spends about 22k per student.  Montgomery gets the best results.  Supposedly these 3 jurisdictions are in the top 5 percent of all counties/ cities in America.  And DC/MD/Northern Virginia is the richest urban area in America i would think.  MD especially is rich.  That is why i like the school choice voucher idea. 

We agree.  The area may be rich but while DCPS spends 22k per student, if you break it down to neighborhoods, maybe that changes?  I can tell you because i have been into most of the poor DC schools that they are a mess.  Technology is bad, they have high student teacher ratios and the teachers dont want to be there.  So to your point, a magnet system or voucher or a system that allows students to attend schools not just in their neighborhoods would be helpful for sure. It also helps to better integrate which, going back to my point above is crucial to reducing bias and systemic racism. 

Edited by PinkydaPimp

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Kind of an aside, but school vouchers have an obvious fairness problem unless they are for an "unlimited" amount or all schools are required to take all applicants.  The best way to show this is probably by way of hypothetical example.  Let's pretend we have a school district that consists of N students and the district average spending is $15K/student.  Pretend that we give each parent a voucher for $15K.

However, we need to consider that while the average is $15K/student, the reality is that some students cost more and others cost less.  For example, this $15K/student district probably has some high achievers that really cost much less than $15K to educate; they don't cause trouble, they learn quickly and without extra help, and they don't need any special services.  A charter school will jump all over themselves to get those kids and a $15K check, because 1) high achievers are great for making the charter school look good, and 2) the budget is favorable, as the student costs less than $15K to educate.

Obviously, if our district is spending $15K on average, and some students cost less, that means others must cost more.  Let's consider a student that needs special education services.  Maybe the child has a learning disability, or needs lots of extra help, or requires help from the school psychologist.  The charter schools will turn those students down because 1) low achievers aren't good for the charter school's standardized test scores, and 2) the budget is not favorable, as the $15K check doesn't cover costs.

Unless the vouchers are for an "as much as needed" amount or all schools are required to take all applicants, what ends up happening?  The highest achievers and lowest cost students run off to charter schools and the remaining students are stuck in programs that now can't afford to meet their needs.

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24 minutes ago, PinkydaPimp said:

Is it though?  Even if it is "against the law" doesnt mean it doesnt happen.  See this which has been posted numerous times in this thread: https://projects.newsday.com/long-island/real-estate-discrimination-history/

I can tell you from first hand experience this happens.  When i was house hunting in nice neighborhoods i would video tape houses that i toured so i could review them again later.  I captured so much realtor steering on video and people trying to suggest i should look in towns that were as they felt a better fit.  Even in the neighborhood i grew up in.

On paper sure.  But if the money is not in black neighborhoods and blacks are relegated to poor neighborhoods due to historical red lining and real estate discrimination then is it about money?  Or is the root problem the discrimination or the reason we are forced into these neighborhoods?  Also for the record, i feel that poor neighborhoods regardless of race deserve an equal education to wealthy neighborhoods but thats another topic.

We agree.  The area may be rich but while DCPS spends 22k per student, if you break it down to neighborhoods, maybe that changes?  I can tell you because i have been into most of the poor DC schools that they are a mess.  Technology is bad, they have high student teacher ratios and the teachers dont want to be there.  So to your point, a magnet system or voucher or a system that allows students to attend schools not just in their neighborhoods would be helpful for sure. It also helps to better integrate which, going back to my point above is crucial to reducing bias and systemic racism. 

I don't know the actual layout of the school spending in DC.  From experience the richest/whitest areas of DC will send their kids to private schools a lot in Montgomery County.  Ever notice that regardless of party that no president or congress person ever send their kids to DC schools?  I agree about the conditions in the schools.  But if the overall spending  is that high where is the money going?  If it is going to richer areas over poorer areas then the DC Council and Mayor should be fixing that.  Kind of goes back to my point on Mississippi and Arkansas schools.  And that is Republican controlled.

To me if i live in any state in the union that isn't in the top half of all states in Education results i want to raise hell.  I know that it is not possible to have all 50 states be in the top 25 but it should be a race to the top, not to just get by.

i grew up in Anne Arundel county schools.  They have 18 high schools for 80000 students.  DC has 8 for 48000.  Which doesn't make sense about the spending.  If there are more kids in DC schools per teacher than AA County then where is the spending going.  And i just found a resource from the 2010 Census that in the DC public schools spent 28K per student. (wikipedia) and that a law was passed paying teachers in DC an avg salary of 81000.  Something stinks there and the DC Govt needs to find the issue.

As for real estate those people should get fired/reported. 

i have seen some of that in a car dealership one time.  Black man came in looking for a high performance car.  He wanted to look at the GTO.  He told the salesman he had just test drove a corvette.  The first thing out of the salesman mouth are you sure you want to look at performance car?  He wanted to push the guy into a SUV.  Of course the guy didn't buy the GTO.  I wouldn't have either. (and I did just that i bought a GTO that day)  But the guy didn't buy it  and i am not sure if the guy was pissed because it may be racism or just the fact the salesman couldn't seem to use those things on the side of his head that permit you to hear.  If i am in sales i am going to show you anything you want wherever it is or whatever it is.  You can't make good sales by not listening to the customer.

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56 minutes ago, Rich Conway said:

Kind of an aside, but school vouchers have an obvious fairness problem unless they are for an "unlimited" amount or all schools are required to take all applicants.  The best way to show this is probably by way of hypothetical example.  Let's pretend we have a school district that consists of N students and the district average spending is $15K/student.  Pretend that we give each parent a voucher for $15K.

However, we need to consider that while the average is $15K/student, the reality is that some students cost more and others cost less.  For example, this $15K/student district probably has some high achievers that really cost much less than $15K to educate; they don't cause trouble, they learn quickly and without extra help, and they don't need any special services.  A charter school will jump all over themselves to get those kids and a $15K check, because 1) high achievers are great for making the charter school look good, and 2) the budget is favorable, as the student costs less than $15K to educate.

Obviously, if our district is spending $15K on average, and some students cost less, that means others must cost more.  Let's consider a student that needs special education services.  Maybe the child has a learning disability, or needs lots of extra help, or requires help from the school psychologist.  The charter schools will turn those students down because 1) low achievers aren't good for the charter school's standardized test scores, and 2) the budget is not favorable, as the $15K check doesn't cover costs.

Unless the vouchers are for an "as much as needed" amount or all schools are required to take all applicants, what ends up happening?  The highest achievers and lowest cost students run off to charter schools and the remaining students are stuck in programs that now can't afford to meet their needs.

The answer to that is make the vouchers with rules.  First one being no matter the grade point avg you have to take any student.  That way trying to get just the "Smart" kids and not taking "Dumb" kids isn't allowed.  In fact there should be no information given to the school at all academically unless the parents authorize it.  The whole idea is to make the kids have an equal shot at getting a quality education.  Once each kid has equal access to that then it is on the parents, teachers and even the students themselves to prosper.

One other thing to think about is vocational schools for some people.  Learning to be an auto mechanic doesn't require college.  Personally i never went to college but went to Computer Learning Center (now defunct) to learn Information Tech.  In fact if you really think about it Doctors, IT guys, and auto mechanics use the same skill, troubleshooting.  That is why when you talk to an IT guy or a doctor or a mechanic they are full of questions, they are narrowing the possibilities down.  The government should give just as much support to vocational training as they do the colleges.  The country can only use but so many lawyers....

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33 minutes ago, NightStalkers said:

The answer to that is make the vouchers with rules.  First one being no matter the grade point avg you have to take any student.  That way trying to get just the "Smart" kids and not taking "Dumb" kids isn't allowed.  In fact there should be no information given to the school at all academically unless the parents authorize it.  The whole idea is to make the kids have an equal shot at getting a quality education.  Once each kid has equal access to that then it is on the parents, teachers and even the students themselves to prosper.

That's never what the school voucher proposals say, though.  Also, to bring it back to systemic racism, if you're not forcing all schools to accept all applicants, you would literally have to provide zero information, not even a name or an address, as we know those can be used, and have been used, racially.

There is one other issue as well.  Motivated parents, typically the ones with the higher achieving kids, are the ones that will be applying to the better schools in the first place, again leaving the kids unlucky enough to have unmotivated parents in the poor schools with even less funding.  While some might say that's fine, as the onus should be on the parents to be motivated, I'm not sure that's fair to kids with unmotivated parents.

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30 minutes ago, spodog said:

It is now not only inappropriate to call the police if someone is in your store shoplifting, but you should expect to be called a racist and told you are putting the shoplifters life at risk. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=92&v=cfdXe3iGm1E&feature=emb_logo

That isn’t true.  It’s one woman’s opinion. The vast majority of people don’t agree.

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16 minutes ago, Rich Conway said:

That's never what the school voucher proposals say, though.  Also, to bring it back to systemic racism, if you're not forcing all schools to accept all applicants, you would literally have to provide zero information, not even a name or an address, as we know those can be used, and have been used, racially.

There is one other issue as well.  Motivated parents, typically the ones with the higher achieving kids, are the ones that will be applying to the better schools in the first place, again leaving the kids unlucky enough to have unmotivated parents in the poor schools with even less funding.  While some might say that's fine, as the onus should be on the parents to be motivated, I'm not sure that's fair to kids with unmotivated parents.

it should be blank.  No idea who it is at all.  As far as proposals are concerned i don't think it gets by the Teachers union to even get to a real vote much less hash out the details.  Seems like vouchers poll well but never get enacted...

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If you don't know who Tyler Childers is, you're probably not from the South or a country/bluegrass music fan.

Either way, I encourage you to listen to this.  It's just over six minutes long.  He starts discussing what he wants to discuss at about 2:30 if that's too long for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ3_AJ5Ysx0&feature=youtu.be

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ACLU of Kentucky @ACLUofKY 2h

BREAKING:

Only 1 of the 3 officers who killed Breonna Taylor has been charged with a crime. None of the charges are related to her death. Once again, the state has denied that Black lives matter by failing to hold law enforcement accountable.

https://twitter.com/ACLUofKY/status/1308831624969293824

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6 hours ago, squistion said:

ACLU of Kentucky @ACLUofKY 2h

BREAKING:

Only 1 of the 3 officers who killed Breonna Taylor has been charged with a crime. None of the charges are related to her death. Once again, the state has denied that Black lives matter by failing to hold law enforcement accountable.

https://twitter.com/ACLUofKY/status/1308831624969293824

Ah yes.  The black AG doesn’t think black lives matter.

 

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3 hours ago, jm192 said:

Ah yes.  The black AG doesn’t think black lives matter.

 

eh?

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6 hours ago, jm192 said:

Ah yes.  The black AG doesn’t think black lives matter.

 

Was there a point you wanted to make?  

Also regarding the decision, it’s just another example of how bias and systemic racism plays an ugly hand in our society.  It’s everywhere and i know i sound like a broken record but it’s at the root of all the issues we are discussing. 

I find it odd they won’t release the full grand jury report.  I also find it odd they won’t release the racial makeup of the grand jury.   But ultimately when bias is heavy it is not surprising they would come up with such a verdict basically saying shots into another apartment were a problem and the killing of a black women wasn’t.
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/517888-kentucky-governor-reacts-to-breonna-taylor-grand-jury-systematic-racism%3famp
 

 

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18 minutes ago, PinkydaPimp said:

Was there a point you wanted to make?  

Also regarding the decision, it’s just another example of how bias and systemic racism plays an ugly hand in our society.  It’s everywhere and i know i sound like a broken record but it’s at the root of all the issues we are discussing. 

I find it odd they won’t release the full grand jury report.  I also find it odd they won’t release the racial makeup of the grand jury.   But ultimately when bias is heavy it is not surprising they would come up with such a verdict basically saying shots into another apartment were a problem and the killing of a black women wasn’t.
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/517888-kentucky-governor-reacts-to-breonna-taylor-grand-jury-systematic-racism%3famp
 

If only we valued a black woman's life as much as drywall

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24 minutes ago, PinkydaPimp said:

Was there a point you wanted to make?  

Also regarding the decision, it’s just another example of how bias and systemic racism plays an ugly hand in our society.  It’s everywhere and i know i sound like a broken record but it’s at the root of all the issues we are discussing. 

I find it odd they won’t release the full grand jury report.  I also find it odd they won’t release the racial makeup of the grand jury.   But ultimately when bias is heavy it is not surprising they would come up with such a verdict basically saying shots into another apartment were a problem and the killing of a black women wasn’t.
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/517888-kentucky-governor-reacts-to-breonna-taylor-grand-jury-systematic-racism%3famp
 

 

What do you think happened in the Taylor case? What are the facts that lead you to believe the officers weren't indicted?

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35 minutes ago, PinkydaPimp said:

Was there a point you wanted to make?  

Also regarding the decision, it’s just another example of how bias and systemic racism plays an ugly hand in our society.  It’s everywhere and i know i sound like a broken record but it’s at the root of all the issues we are discussing. 

I find it odd they won’t release the full grand jury report.  I also find it odd they won’t release the racial makeup of the grand jury.   But ultimately when bias is heavy it is not surprising they would come up with such a verdict basically saying shots into another apartment were a problem and the killing of a black women wasn’t.
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/517888-kentucky-governor-reacts-to-breonna-taylor-grand-jury-systematic-racism%3famp
 

First shot fired hit a police officer.  By what logic is returning fire not justified?  Other neighbors heard the police knock and announce themselves.  It was tragic but justified.  Zero evidence of bias or systemic racism.  

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40 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

First shot fired hit a police officer.  By what logic is returning fire not justified?  Other neighbors heard the police knock and announce themselves.  It was tragic but justified.  Zero evidence of bias or systemic racism.  

How would you go about looking for evidence of bias or systemic racism?

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1 hour ago, PinkydaPimp said:

Was there a point you wanted to make?  

Also regarding the decision, it’s just another example of how bias and systemic racism plays an ugly hand in our society.  It’s everywhere and i know i sound like a broken record but it’s at the root of all the issues we are discussing. 

I find it odd they won’t release the full grand jury report.  I also find it odd they won’t release the racial makeup of the grand jury.   But ultimately when bias is heavy it is not surprising they would come up with such a verdict basically saying shots into another apartment were a problem and the killing of a black women wasn’t.
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/517888-kentucky-governor-reacts-to-breonna-taylor-grand-jury-systematic-racism%3famp
 

 

The police were shot at.  The police are allowed by Kentucky State law to defend themselves.  Two cops discharged their weapons in a manner consistent with self defense.  She was hit in the cross fire by a bullet from the weapon belonging to one of those two officers.

The third officer acted wrecklessly.  But his bullets didn’t take her life.  You can’t charge him with murder or manslaughter without charging the guy whose bullet took her life.  And you can’t take away his right to self defense.

A young black woman is dead.  She shouldn’t be.  It’s a tragedy.  But do the facts indicate that the police violated the law?

Or do we just want someone to pay, regardless of what the law says?

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Something interesting that happened over the last several years is this force connection of two separate ideas or beliefs.

The ACLU saying that the state has decided that black lives don’t matter is an example of this. Whether or not Black Lives Matter was not on trial here. Daniel Cameron and the grand jury wwere not asked whether or not they believe that Black Lives Matter. This result and the believe that Black Lives Matter are not mutually exclusive no matter how much someone to try to force us to believe that.

 

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2 hours ago, PinkydaPimp said:

Was there a point you wanted to make?  

Also regarding the decision, it’s just another example of how bias and systemic racism plays an ugly hand in our society.  It’s everywhere and i know i sound like a broken record but it’s at the root of all the issues we are discussing. 

I find it odd they won’t release the full grand jury report.  I also find it odd they won’t release the racial makeup of the grand jury.   But ultimately when bias is heavy it is not surprising they would come up with such a verdict basically saying shots into another apartment were a problem and the killing of a black women wasn’t.
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/517888-kentucky-governor-reacts-to-breonna-taylor-grand-jury-systematic-racism%3famp
 

 

"Grand jury proceedings are secret. No judge is present; the proceedings are led by a prosecutor; and the defendant has no right to present his case or (in many instances) to be informed of the proceedings at all. While court reporters usually transcribe the proceedings, the records are sealed."

Thats from the wikipedia article. Seems such an occurrence is not uncommon. 

Edited by parasaurolophus

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49 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

How would you go about looking for evidence of bias or systemic racism?

That is the beauty if such as BS accusation.  You guys throw it around like candy with no proof or logic.  

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1 hour ago, GROOT said:

What do you think happened in the Taylor case? What are the facts that lead you to believe the officers weren't indicted?

 

1 hour ago, jon_mx said:

First shot fired hit a police officer.  By what logic is returning fire not justified?  Other neighbors heard the police knock and announce themselves.  It was tragic but justified.  Zero evidence of bias or systemic racism.  

Well to start with the person they sought was already in jail.  Yet they felt it necessary to execute a no knock warrant and recklessly shoot into their apartment in the middle of the night.  Additionally the warrant was arguably illegal. 

The police incident report contained multiple errors even listing Breonna had no injuries as well as indicating officers had not forced their way into the apt, which they did using a battering ram.  

Lastly, the gentleman who fired a round at the police did so when their door was battered down after not hearing any announcement of police being present.  He was legally within his right to do so.  The police were at fault for this occurring and should be held accountable.  We could debate whom should be held accountable but ultimately this entire chain of events began as a result of numerous LMPD mistakes.  The should be held accountable or at least bring it to trail.  Thats were the systemic racism comes in.  

Last thing i will mention is that we are are missing alot of info still about this case which the AG office should release but won’t.  Would have been nice if they had body cams for example.

 

Quote

That’s exactly what has happened. Breonna Taylor’s death wasn’t some unimaginable accident. Nor were the deaths of people who have since died in similar raids. Her death was the entirely foreseeable consequence of a police department feeling free to callously and carelessly ignore the Fourth Amendment and the Supreme Court’s decision to prioritize the integrity of drug prosecutions over the Fourth Amendment right of Americans to feel safe and secure in their homes.

Unless this is corrected, the next Breonna Taylor is coming.

#systemic

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5 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

That is the beauty if such as BS accusation.  You guys throw it around like candy with no proof or logic.  

This works in reverse too, though.  "Nope, there isn't any, doesn't exist."

I think the question was fair and an attempt to find a common definition.  What would systemic bias or racism look like to you?  How would you set about determining if it exists or not?

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3 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

That is the beauty if such as BS accusation.  You guys throw it around like candy with no proof or logic.  

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-systemic-racism-in-charts-graphs-data-2020-6

26 simple charts to show friends and family who aren't convinced racism is still a problem in America

The United States has seen nationwide protests for weeks over the death of George Floyd in police custody, and the frustration that racism and racial inequality still persist throughout modern American life.

Data and research have extensively documented the ways in which Black Americans are underrepresented, overrepresented, or experience different treatment from their white counterparts.

These 26 charts show the extent of racial disparities in America, in areas like employment, wealth, education, home ownership, healthcare, and incarceration.

[...]

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Wouldnt it have been a lot safer for everyone involved if they had surveilled Taylor’s house and detained anyone inside once they came out?  Did they even know who was in the house?

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8 minutes ago, Daywalker said:

Wouldnt it have been a lot safer for everyone involved if they had surveilled Taylor’s house and detained anyone inside once they came out?  Did they even know who was in the house?

The person they killed was on the warrant.  

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28 minutes ago, squistion said:

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-systemic-racism-in-charts-graphs-data-2020-6

26 simple charts to show friends and family who aren't convinced racism is still a problem in America

The United States has seen nationwide protests for weeks over the death of George Floyd in police custody, and the frustration that racism and racial inequality still persist throughout modern American life.

Data and research have extensively documented the ways in which Black Americans are underrepresented, overrepresented, or experience different treatment from their white counterparts.

These 26 charts show the extent of racial disparities in America, in areas like employment, wealth, education, home ownership, healthcare, and incarceration.

[...]

Why isn't the NBA racially balanced?  Is that proof the NBA has systemic racism towards white guys?  

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12 minutes ago, Daywalker said:

Wouldnt it have been a lot safer for everyone involved if they had surveilled Taylor’s house and detained anyone inside once they came out?  Did they even know who was in the house?

Yes.  Absolutely.  Lots of problems can be found with the process.  A bad process isn’t criminal.

 

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3 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

The person they killed was on the warrant.  

What is your opinion on the no-knock warrant being issued in the first place?

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30 minutes ago, Daywalker said:

Wouldnt it have been a lot safer for everyone involved if they had surveilled Taylor’s house and detained anyone inside once they came out?  Did they even know who was in the house?

On a closely related note, maybe it isn't such a good idea to use paramilitary tactics to stop people from using the wrong kind of intoxicant.

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21 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

What is your opinion on the no-knock warrant being issued in the first place?

It seems obvious that there are problems with it.  Suspects and officers alike are being put in extra danger.

That being said, executing a judge issued warrant isn’t a violation of the law. 

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4 minutes ago, jm192 said:

It seems obvious that there are problems with it.  Suspects and officers alike are being put in extra danger.

That being said, executing a judge issued warrant isn’t a violation of the law. 

Agreed. My suspicion is systemic racism led to those problems you mention which in turn led to her death. How would we prove that? I’m not sure. Maybe can’t be proven.

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1 minute ago, Juxtatarot said:

Agreed. My suspicion is systemic racism led to those problems you mention which in turn led to her death. How would we prove that? I’m not sure. Maybe can’t be proven.

I’m obviously not able to review the record.   I assume no knock warrants are issued on white suspects as well.  I question whether a judge knows the ethnicity when signing off on the warrant.

The police were targeting a drug dealer that happened to be black.  His ex-girlfriend was also black.  His packages had been delivered to her house at least once, and so they thought she was involved in the drugs somehow.

If it were a white girlfriend receiving the packages for the drug dealer ex-boyfriend, do police decide to ignore that lead?  I seriously doubt it.

If shots are fired from the apt. a white woman they suspect is involved in drug dealing, do the police holster their weapons?  I doubt it.

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35 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

Why isn't the NBA racially balanced?  Is that proof the NBA has systemic racism towards white guys?  

So you are pointing to the NBA as proof that systemic racism against black people does not exist in this country, despite all the data to the contrary.  That is the best argument you can come up with?

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1 hour ago, PinkydaPimp said:

 

Well to start with the person they sought was already in jail.  Yet they felt it necessary to execute a no knock warrant and recklessly shoot into their apartment in the middle of the night.  Additionally the warrant was arguably illegal. 

The police incident report contained multiple errors even listing Breonna had no injuries as well as indicating officers had not forced their way into the apt, which they did using a battering ram.  

Lastly, the gentleman who fired a round at the police did so when their door was battered down after not hearing any announcement of police being present.  He was legally within his right to do so.  The police were at fault for this occurring and should be held accountable.  We could debate whom should be held accountable but ultimately this entire chain of events began as a result of numerous LMPD mistakes.  The should be held accountable or at least bring it to trail.  Thats were the systemic racism comes in.  

Last thing i will mention is that we are are missing alot of info still about this case which the AG office should release but won’t.  Would have been nice if they had body cams for example.

 

#systemic

Here are the facts: Police officers knocked on door. A no-knock raid didn't happen (but if it did it's legal) The police did knock and identify themselves.(witness testimony). Her boyfriend decided to open fire at a closed door, not even knowing who was on the other side (breaking the law in the process), shot at them. Breanna Taylor was in the hallway and unfortunately died.

Edited by GROOT

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10 minutes ago, squistion said:

So you are pointing to the NBA as proof that systemic racism against black people does not exist in this country, despite all the data to the contrary.  That is the best argument you can come up with?

It's a bad argument, but he gets extra credit for coming up with it on his own instead of copying it from Twitter.

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If the black voters of Louisville showed up en masse, in really substantial numbers, they could change the entire direction of the country by voting out McConnell. I'm really not expecting it but it's obviously a lot more constructive and peaceful than what we saw last night.

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1 hour ago, Juxtatarot said:

What is your opinion on the no-knock warrant being issued in the first place?

Depends how dangerous the criminals are.  It did not matter in this case because they did knock.  

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8 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

If the black voters of Louisville showed up en masse, in really substantial numbers, they could change the entire direction of the country by voting out McConnell. I'm really not expecting it but it's obviously a lot more constructive and peaceful than what we saw last night.

Votes indeed speak louder than broken windows, burning police cars or amplified voices blaring out of a handheld loudspeaker, yet in the 2016 election only 55% of the voting age public actually cast a vote, down almost 20 million votes from the level in the '08 elections.

Seems Americans are either slow learners, distrustful of the system or both.

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27 minutes ago, squistion said:

So you are pointing to the NBA as proof that systemic racism against black people does not exist in this country, despite all the data to the contrary.  That is the best argument you can come up with?

No, i am making the point that unequal outcomes does not prove systemic racism.  Is unequal outcome the best you can come up with? 

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15 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

No, i am making the point that unequal outcomes does not prove systemic racism.  Is unequal outcome the best you can come up with? 

Yes, when there are literally dozens of examples (26 at link I provided above) and you had to dig the bottom of the barrel to come up with one that proved your point. Not surprised you didn't also list the NFL, because then you would have to explain the disproportionate numbers of black head coaches versus black players (which also indicates systemic racism).

It was a bad argument jon, even Ivan K said so.

Edited by squistion

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31 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

If the black voters of Louisville showed up en masse, in really substantial numbers, they could change the entire direction of the country by voting out McConnell. I'm really not expecting it but it's obviously a lot more constructive and peaceful than what we saw last night.

I don't buy that this would have been prevented with Amy McGrath in office.  

Maybe that's not what you're meaning to say.  

But I don't see Breonna Taylor's death as a Mitch McConnell problem.

Edited by jm192

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19 minutes ago, squistion said:

Yes, when there are literally dozens of examples (26 at link I provided above) and you had to dig the bottom of the barrel to come up with one that proved your point. Not surprised you didn't also list the NFL, because then you would have to explain the disproportionate numbers of black head coaches versus black players (which also indicates systemic racism).

It was a bad argument jon, even Ivan K said so.

He is full of them.

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32 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

Depends how dangerous the criminals are.  It did not matter in this case because they did knock.  

Breonna Taylor wasn't considered a criminal to my knowledge.

I'm perplexed about this "knock" business.  Didn't they bang on the door, maybe yell "Police" (there are conflicting accounts), and then bust the door down?   I don't think the knock excuses what happened.

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