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ISIS- American loose gun laws make terrorism easier for us (1 Viewer)

For America and Canada, it’s much easier for them to get them over the social network, because [ISIS says] the Americans are dumb — they have open gun policies.

[ISIS says] we can radicalize them easily, and if they have no prior record, they can buy guns, so we don’t need to have no contact man who has to provide guns for them.

 
Love this coming form the guy who said that the Garland cartoon contest would magically make American Muslims into terrorists, what a comple joke.

 
msommer said:
The last three ISIS attacks in Europe were with an axe, knives and a truck. 
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Hypothetically, if you were unfortunate enough to be at a rail station where a terrorist decides he wants to go jihad, would you prefer them attack with an axe or an AR-15?   

 
tone1oc said:
Hypothetically, if you were unfortunate enough to be at a rail station where a terrorist decides he wants to go jihad, would you prefer them attack with an axe or an AR-15?   
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You know the answer to that one. Not sure why you are asking me, though

 
timschochet said:
I don't understand this post. What is your point here? 
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My point is when Garland went down you claimed that American Muslims were at risk of being made violent by cartoons.  So I think your reasoning is faulty, I think you think American Muslims are dangerous and I think the underlying point if your post is based on faulty premises.

 
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Propaganda - got you hook, line and sinker. No wonder you support Democrats.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
My point is when Garland went down you claimed that American Muslims were at risk of being made violent by cartoons.  So I think you're reasoning is faulty, I think you think American Muslims are dangerous and I think the underlying point if your post is based on faulty premises.
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I think Tim wants to start another gun control thread

 
msommer said:
You know the answer to that one. Not sure why you are asking me, though
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Because you are making the point that terrorists use other weapons, as if it's the same thing.  You know that guns and especially (semi)automatic guns with high capacity magazines which are quite easy to get ahold of in the USA makes a terrorists job a whole lot easier.  

 
tone1oc said:
Hypothetically, if you were unfortunate enough to be at a rail station where a terrorist decides he wants to go jihad, would you prefer them attack with an axe or an AR-15?   
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Depends on whether I'm carrying or not.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
My point is when Garland went down you claimed that American Muslims were at risk of being made violent by cartoons.  So I think you're reasoning is faulty, I think you think American Muslims are dangerous and I think the underlying point if your post is based on faulty premises.
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Actually what I wrote back then is that I feared it would inflame radical Muslims, which though they are less prominent here rather than elsewhere, are still here and are still a threat. I don't believe the vast majority of American Muslims are dangerous. 

But that has nothing to do with this story, which I found interesting and scary. I am not making any proposals as a result of it. I simply thought it was worth reading and discussing. 

 
tone1oc said:
Because you are making the point that terrorists use other weapons, as if it's the same thing.  You know that guns and especially (semi)automatic guns with high capacity magazines which are quite easy to get ahold of in the USA makes a terrorists job a whole lot easier.  
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No, I was making the point that gun control actually limits ISIS effectiveness if not their ability to carry out terror

 
bueno said:
Propaganda - got you hook, line and sinker. No wonder you support Democrats.
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I didn't write that I was necessarily convinced by any argument, I simply wrote that I thought what I read was scary. 

But why do you think it's propaganda? Do you believe this guy is lying about what ISIS said? Do you believe that ISIS is lying about this, and if so, for what reason? 

 
timschochet said:
Actually what I wrote back then is that I feared it would inflame radical Muslims, which though they are less prominent here rather than elsewhere, are still here and are still a threat. I don't believe the vast majority of American Muslims are dangerous. 

But that has nothing to do with this story, which I found interesting and scary. I am not making any proposals as a result of it. I simply thought it was worth reading and discussing. 
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You're not saying you're just you know sayin'. - You think radical American Muslims are sitting around waiting to be inflamed. So they need a cartoon or maybe Trump threatening to ban them all etc., and then they're going to go get a gun, right? Not a truck, not a pistol, not a plane, not a hand grenade.

How about you ban the cartoons and Trump and anything else you think "they" might feel offensive, then you don't have to worry about the guns.

Or do you not do that because you think some "right" is involved?

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Youre not saying you're just you know satin'. - You think radicalnAmerican Muslims are sitting around waiting to be inflamed. So they need a cartoon or maybe Trump threatening to ban them all etc., and then they're going to go get a gun, right? Not a truck, not a pistol, not a plane, not a hand grenade.

How about you ban the cartoons and a trump anything else you think "they" might feel offensive, then you don't have to worry about the guns.
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Forget what I wrote earlier. What do you think of the article, and what the guy said? He said that ISIS regards our loose gun laws as making terrorism easier for them, because they don't have to worry about securing weapons. Do you agree with this statement or not? 

 
timschochet said:
Actually what I wrote back then is that I feared it would inflame radical Muslims, which though they are less prominent here rather than elsewhere, are still here and are still a threat. I don't believe the vast majority of American Muslims are dangerous. 

But that has nothing to do with this story, which I found interesting and scary. I am not making any proposals as a result of it. I simply thought it was worth reading and discussing. 
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Radical Muslims are already inflamed.

 
Ok so 1st Amendment - no speech inflaming radicalizable Muslims - down.

2nd Amendment - radicalizable Muslims can't get guns - down.

3rd Amendment - NSA can spy on radicalizable Muslims in their home - down.

4th Amendment - FBI can surveil radicalizable Muslims and put them on watch lists - down.

Keep going.

 
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timschochet said:
Forget what I wrote earlier. What do you think of the article, and what the guy said? He said that ISIS regards our loose gun laws as making terrorism easier for them, because they don't have to worry about securing weapons. Do you agree with this statement or not? 
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Why don't you apply that to one if the Isis inspired attacks we have had:

Chatanooga

San Bernardino

Orlando

New York Times Square plot

Ft. Hood

Boston

Santa Barbara

...and explain how a particular measure would have stopped attacks in those particular instances.

Go.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Why don't you apply that to one if the Isis inspired attacks we have had:

Chatanooga

San Bernardino

Orlando

New York Times Square plot

Ft. Hood

Boston

...and explain how a particular measure would have stopped attacks in those particular instances.

Go.
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Well you didn't answer my question. As far as YOUR question, I have no idea. A few of those instances, possibly. I am in favor of prohibiting anyone on the FBI "no-fly" list from purchasing firearms. 

 
timschochet said:
Well you didn't answer my question. As far as YOUR question, I have no idea. A few of those instances, possibly. I am in favor of prohibiting anyone on the FBI "no-fly" list from purchasing firearms. 
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I'm sorry why stop at the 5th Amendment then? 

Serious question - why not jail them? I'm not kidding you're making a Trump argument here, keep going.

eta - I'll answer your question - the proposed solution in that article would have had zero influence on stopping those attacks.

 
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And our free speech laws make ISIS recruitment easier. And the Establishment Clause makes it tougher to root out ISIS sympathizers.

Sounds like you're a Trump supporter, giving up American freedoms out of fear.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I'm sorry why stop at the 5th Amendment then? 

Serious question - why not jail them? I'm not kidding you're making aTrump argument here, keep going.
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I don't want to remove any serious rights from them. I just don't want them to own firearms. I find equating that to jail to be pretty extreme. 

 
Gawain said:
And our free speech laws make ISIS recruitment easier. And the Establishment Clause makes it tougher to root out ISIS sympathizers.

Sounds like you're a Trump supporter, giving up American freedoms out of fear.
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All of the rights mentioned in the Bill of Rights are subject to reasonable restrictions for security. 

 
Coming from a guy who's side loves to talk about fear mongering right wingers, this thread is humorous. 

 
'The government has found you potentially dangerous. Therefore you have been deprived of the full use of your rights because the Constitution is subject to reasonable restrictions for security.'

>shameful

 
timschochet said:
Forget what I wrote earlier. What do you think of the article, and what the guy said? He said that ISIS regards our loose gun laws as making terrorism easier for them, because they don't have to worry about securing weapons. Do you agree with this statement or not? 
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I wonder why our enemy would give us advice on how to make their job more difficult.  Perhaps the goal is to foment discord.

 
Besides Saints, I have no solutions to offer here (besides the one I mentioned). I posted that article because I thought it was worth discussing. Draw your own conclusions. 

 
timschochet said:
No, it's a Hillary Clinton quote, and she was quoting Antonin Scalia in Heller as a matter fact. 
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Heller.

The case that found an individual right to exercise the 2nd Amendment is used in an argument to deprive people of just that right. Yeah.

 
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Look, I know none of you want to do anything that is going to restrict your own right to own guns. I respect that. Honestly I don't want to do that either. I'd just like to keep the terrorists from getting them. Is there a reasonable way to accomplish this without restricting your rights (or the rights of innocent people that are confused for terrorists?) I'm all ears. 

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
I missed that in the article.  In fact I keep missing it in the article.  Can you point out where it says he is a defector.  I see where he is imprisoned, but not a defector.
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I first heard about it on the Rachel Maddow show. That's what she said. 

In any case, doesn't it make sense to you that ISIS would use our gun laws to their advantage? 

 
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