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Pursuing a new job. Am I out of consideration? (1 Viewer)

KCitons

KCitons

Footballguy
I interviewed twice in the past 3 weeks with a new company. At the last interview we discussed salary, vacation, 401k, benefits. I am up for a promotion at my current job. So when they asked me how much I was wanting, I told them a promotion would put me in the "x" range. They only mentioned that the offer would be a little less, but with profit sharing, it would bring it at or above my asking amount. The interview was on a Weds, they said they would get in touch with me the following week (this week).

I heard from them today. The recruiter said that they had a couple of other people apply for the position and that they would be interviewing through next week. She also said that I am a candidate for promotion at my current employer, and that they didn't want me to pass up a promotion. She also said I was still a candidate for their opening.

This really seems like mixed signals. If she only said, "don't pass up a promotion", it would have sealed it for me. But, why say that I'm still the candidate? Am I the second or third choice? Was I asking too much?

Thanks in advance for the schtick.

 
Sounds to me like you did fine but they want to talk to the others first. It also seems like they are decent people and would hate to see you lose out at your current company with false hope of a new job. At this point I would say you are on the outside looking in, but have a chip and a chair. I doubt the salary you asked for sealed the deal either way. 

 
Why did you tell the new company that you were up for a promotion?  You should have just given them your salary (and other) requirements and left that part out.

 
nirad3 said:
Why did you tell the new company that you were up for a promotion?  You should have just given them your salary (and other) requirements and left that part out.
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Hindsight is 20/20. Where were you last week? 

My asking price was 50% more than I currently make. I guess I felt I needed to justify it because the promotion would be near or at that number. My main reason for leaving my current company is that I don't know if they will be around in 2-3 years. 

 
This sounds to me like they think you can do the job but aren't blown away.  Most likely there is at least one senior person involved in the process who isn't in favor of hiring you.  So they're going to meet with a couple more folks, most likely including someone that senior person has brought in, with the idea being that you are their choice in the event that they don't like one of the new people better.

Because if you were their first choice, they wouldn't bother with the other interviews - particularly with that much time elapsing.

 
elbowrm said:
This sounds to me like they think you can do the job but aren't blown away.  Most likely there is at least one senior person involved in the process who isn't in favor of hiring you.  So they're going to meet with a couple more folks, most likely including someone that senior person has brought in, with the idea being that you are their choice in the event that they don't like one of the new people better.

Because if you were their first choice, they wouldn't bother with the other interviews - particularly with that much time elapsing.
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This.

 
elbowrm said:
This sounds to me like they think you can do the job but aren't blown away.  Most likely there is at least one senior person involved in the process who isn't in favor of hiring you.  So they're going to meet with a couple more folks, most likely including someone that senior person has brought in, with the idea being that you are their choice in the event that they don't like one of the new people better.

Because if you were their first choice, they wouldn't bother with the other interviews - particularly with that much time elapsing.
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This is what I was thinking too.

 
Mr. Pickles said:
Never discuss salary in an interview. Unless this is for a job at Arby's. 
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Can we expand on this? How should a person answer when asked?  I was asked three times during this process about my salary expectations. Once during a brief phone interview and then again at each face to face interview.

I don't think salary is the issue. 

 
KCitons said:
Hindsight is 20/20. Where were you last week? 

My asking price was 50% more than I currently make. I guess I felt I needed to justify it because the promotion would be near or at that number. My main reason for leaving my current company is that I don't know if they will be around in 2-3 years. 
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Great, sounds like you'll kick butt in your new role.  Congrats.

 
KCitons said:
Can we expand on this? How should a person answer when asked?  I was asked three times during this process about my salary expectations. Once during a brief phone interview and then again at each face to face interview.

I don't think salary is the issue. 
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'I didn't expect to discuss that today.  If we both feel this is a good fit I'm sure we can come to an agreeable number"

If pressed tell them you're currently making $X and while this sounds like a great opportunity you'd expect an increase to take the risk of switching jobs

 
I never tell them salary expectations no matter how much they ask. If they ask how much I currently MAKE I answer honestly. Otherwise I just say I am looking for a competitive offer.

 
Dan Lambskin said:
'I didn't expect to discuss that today.  If we both feel this is a good fit I'm sure we can come to an agreeable number"

If pressed tell them you're currently making $X and while this sounds like a great opportunity you'd expect an increase to take the risk of switching jobs
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this

 
shadyridr said:
I never tell them salary expectations no matter how much they ask. If they ask how much I currently MAKE I answer honestly. Otherwise I just say I am looking for a competitive offer.
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Why an employer asks this in part is because it gives you the opportunity to low-ball yourself. Let's say they are willing to give you $150k/year, but you say your expectations are $100k, then congratulations, you got a job, they get to save $50k per year.

I always try to let them make the first offer (which is usually a low ball offer, but only slightly - compared to how much we tend to under-estimate our own worth.

 
Fair enough. But, if I'm happy with the $100k and that is what I am asking for, why haven't they offered the job?  Especially if they know I'm making $50k?

I think the salary discussion is a valid part of the process for both parties. If they want to pay me $2k more than I'm making and they are not willing to move up, I would rather they not waste my time or theirs. When people change jobs, money is the key factor. How can you determine if the fit is right for both without discussing salary?

 
KCitons said:
Fair enough. But, if I'm happy with the $100k and that is what I am asking for, why haven't they offered the job?  Especially if they know I'm making $50k?

I think the salary discussion is a valid part of the process for both parties. If they want to pay me $2k more than I'm making and they are not willing to move up, I would rather they not waste my time or theirs. When people change jobs, money is the key factor. How can you determine if the fit is right for both without discussing salary?
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I don't think it's the salary either but doubt make that mistake next time.

 
Walking Boot said:
I totally blew it on the salary question in my last job interview. Met with the department head, had a great discussion. He sent me down to HR to talk to the woman there about getting the job. She asked what kind of salary I was looking for, I gave a number $X. She said OK and wrote it down. Called me three days later with the formal job offer. Salary in the offer was $X+20%, asked if I'd like the job.  "Uh, yeah, OK, sounds fair."
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I'm guessing you did your homework on both the company and salary ranges for your job? I tried to negotiate my current salary after the initial offer, they wouldn't budge but I tried.

 
You're recruiter should make sure you're in the ballpark, but make sure they feel like they have to have you before you start throwing out numbers 

 
Dan Lambskin said:
You're recruiter should make sure you're in the ballpark, but make sure they feel like they have to have you before you start throwing out numbers 
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Thanks for the input. Obviously that didn't happen, or the title of this thread would have been different. 

Sucks that you only have a handful of interviews in a lifetime and it's so easy to screw them up.

 
Cjw_55106 said:
Sounds to me like you did fine but they want to talk to the others first. It also seems like they are decent people and would hate to see you lose out at your current company with false hope of a new job. At this point I would say you are on the outside looking in, but have a chip and a chair. I doubt the salary you asked for sealed the deal either way. 
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Such a nice response, good for you guy.

 
KCitons said:
Thanks for the input. Obviously that didn't happen, or the title of this thread would have been different. 

Sucks that you only have a handful of interviews in a lifetime and it's so easy to screw them up.
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I interviewed pretty extensively last few months.  Learned a lot of dos and donts from recruiters, but every situation is different

 
They're 75% sure you're their guy but they are hoping someone better falls into their lap.

 
Granted I work at a very large company, but there is zero flex in our salaries, which are tied to job codes based upon market surveys.  When we tell someone this and they still try to negotiate it just pisses people off.

 
elbowrm said:
Granted I work at a very large company, but there is zero flex in our salaries, which are tied to job codes based upon market surveys.  When we tell someone this and they still try to negotiate it just pisses people off.
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My current company is this way. That's how I know what the the job code pays, and why I was asking the new company to match that amount. I may have left something on the table, but I have no "ragrets".

 
When they asked about salary you should have put your pinky to the corner of your mouth and said "one meeeeelion dollars"

 
Their benefits package includes 401k match, profit sharing, and sharks with #######' lazer beams attached to their heads.

Really? Frick in' is blocked?

 
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They are probably hesitant to hire you because you are actively looking for a new job even though your current employer is in the process of rewarding you.   You basically straight up told them that your current company is being loyal to you and rewarding you--while you are out there not showing any loyalty to them by trying to leave.  That is not a good look---it makes you look like an unappreciative disloyal mercenary (I'm not saying that you are--and I'm not saying this as an insult).   You painted yourself in a very bad light in my opinion.   

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
They are probably hesitant to hire you because you are actively looking for a new job even though your current employer is in the process of rewarding you.   You basically straight up told them that your current company is being loyal to you and rewarding you--while you are out there not showing any loyalty to them by trying to leave.  That is not a good look---it makes you look like an unappreciative disloyal mercenary (I'm not saying that you are--and I'm not saying this as an insult).   You painted yourself in a very bad light in my opinion.   
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That could be. But we also discussed that I was looking for a new job due to longevity. Two of the three people that I interviewed with had over 25 years with the company. The third had 17 years. I made it pretty clear that a stable company is a key factor for me. I was also asked about why I felt my current company may not be around in 2-3 years. I explained I have access to comp sales information. At that point he answered "enough said".

Not sure if the first mate on Titanic would take a promotion to Captain if he had any other options. Maybe it looked bad, but I didn't get that feeling. I really think it comes down to them not wanting to pay what I am asking. They're bargain shopping (which is a red flag for me)

 
KCitons said:
That could be. But we also discussed that I was looking for a new job due to longevity. Two of the three people that I interviewed with had over 25 years with the company. The third had 17 years. I made it pretty clear that a stable company is a key factor for me. I was also asked about why I felt my current company may not be around in 2-3 years. I explained I have access to comp sales information. At that point he answered "enough said".

Not sure if the first mate on Titanic would take a promotion to Captain if he had any other options. Maybe it looked bad, but I didn't get that feeling. I really think it comes down to them not wanting to pay what I am asking. They're bargain shopping (which is a red flag for me)
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You might be right--as you were in direct contact with them--and I was not there.  I'm certainly not arguing with you in regards to your situation.  However--I can tell you that as a manager of a small company--I do play a fairly significant role when it comes to hiring/firing.  Speaking out of my own experience--  If somebody applied to a job with us--and they indicate that their current job is in the process of promoting them--and they are still out there looking for another job--that would be a huge red flag to me.   If I were to hire you--I'd have no way of trusting that you weren't looking for anything else.   When a company hires somebody--they are investing far more than just what the new persons salary is.  They are investing tons of money in training, teaching company protocols and dynamics, and soo much more.   The last thing a company wants to do is to invest a ton of time and effort hiring somebody that they don't absolutely trust will be there for the long term.   While you may have told them that you don't believe your company might survive the next few years--under their breaths--I personally think that they could easily think that you are abandoning a current job that is showing you love and loyalty.   Basically what I'm saying is that I don't think you should have mentioned your current promotion.There was nothing to gain from informing them of that.   Regardless--I wish you the best of luck with your future endeavors.  

 
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jvdesigns2002 said:
They are probably hesitant to hire you because you are actively looking for a new job even though your current employer is in the process of rewarding you.   You basically straight up told them that your current company is being loyal to you and rewarding you--while you are out there not showing any loyalty to them by trying to leave.  That is not a good look---it makes you look like an unappreciative disloyal mercenary (I'm not saying that you are--and I'm not saying this as an insult).   You painted yourself in a very bad light in my opinion.   
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Just to provide another perspective KC, I don't agree with this at all. The fact that you're looking for a new job while in the process of being promoted at another one could also be taken as the exact opposite. That you care about things besides money and title and you're willing to go somewhere else and have to keep on proving yourself to achieve more. You're not just seeking to stay at your company and take the easy way out.

People get raises and get promoted at ####ty companies all the time. Management does that in order to keep people in ####ty companies. To stop them from going to competitors which are kicking their ###, to keep as much business as possible as revenues and profits are bleeding. What if KC was being promoted because the guy he's replacing saw the writing on the wall and jumped ship?

 
RUSF18 said:
Just to provide another perspective KC, I don't agree with this at all. The fact that you're looking for a new job while in the process of being promoted at another one could also be taken as the exact opposite. That you care about things besides money and title and you're willing to go somewhere else and have to keep on proving yourself to achieve more. You're not just seeking to stay at your company and take the easy way out.

People get raises and get promoted at ####ty companies all the time. Management does that in order to keep people in ####ty companies. To stop them from going to competitors which are kicking their ###, to keep as much business as possible as revenues and profits are bleeding. What if KC was being promoted because the guy he's replacing saw the writing on the wall and jumped ship?
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I agree.Sears is one that comes to mind. As companies move towards bankruptcy, positions open up and they want to promote from within. It saves them money on training and they always pay less for internal promotes.

jvdesigns2002 said:
You might be right--as you were in direct contact with them--and I was not there.  I'm certainly not arguing with you in regards to your situation.  However--I can tell you that as a manager of a small company--I do play a fairly significant role when it comes to hiring/firing.  Speaking out of my own experience--  If somebody applied to a job with us--and they indicate that their current job is in the process of promoting them--and they are still out there looking for another job--that would be a huge red flag to me.   If I were to hire you--I'd have no way of trusting that you weren't looking for anything else.   When a company hires somebody--they are investing far more than just what the new persons salary is.  They are investing tons of money in training, teaching company protocols and dynamics, and soo much more.   The last thing a company wants to do is to invest a ton of time and effort hiring somebody that they don't absolutely trust will be there for the long term.   While you may have told them that you don't believe your company might survive the next few years--under their breaths--I personally think that they could easily think that you are abandoning a current job that is showing you love and loyalty.   Basically what I'm saying is that I don't think you should have mentioned your current promotion.There was nothing to gain from informing them of that.   Regardless--I wish you the best of luck with your future endeavors.  
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I'm not trying to argue with you either. I appreciate the perspective you give from the side of a hiring manager. If an offer doesn't come from this company, I will be interviewing with other companies. I will keep everyone's input in mind as I move forward.

 
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RUSF18 said:
Just to provide another perspective KC, I don't agree with this at all. The fact that you're looking for a new job while in the process of being promoted at another one could also be taken as the exact opposite . That you care about things besides money and title and you're willing to go somewhere else and have to keep on proving yourself to achieve more. You're not just seeking to stay at your company and take the easy way out.

People get raises and get promoted at ####ty companies all the time. Management does that in order to keep people in ####ty companies. To stop them from going to competitors which are kicking their ###, to keep as much business as possible as revenues and profits are bleeding. What if KC was being promoted because the guy he's replacing saw the writing on the wall and jumped ship?
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I don't disagree that some people might look at it this way. In fact--I actually will fully concede that there are many people that could look at things your way.  However, we have to look at the facts here.  He had several interviews that sounded like they went pretty well--but it's become clearly evident that the new company has "hesitated" to insta-hire him.  Even if they end up offering him the job--there is no doubting that there is some hesitation from this potentially new employer.   Many companies have HR departments where many people/opinions are involved on the final decisions of who to hire/fire.  The fact that both you and I can look at the same situation differently--is exactly why it was probably best not to mention him looking to leave a company as they are promoting him.   Even if most people share your point of view--it only takes 1 or 2 people that are involved in the hiring process to share my point of view that could prevent him from getting a new job.  He could have said "I don't have faith in the long term viability of the current company that I am working for--and I'd like to move to a company where my family and I can feel more comfortable and secure with in the long term"--and not mention the promotion at all.    Regardless--I do respect your point of view--because the reality is that different people will look at things differently.  

 
I wouldn't have mentioned the possible promotion. Just like the new job you're interviewing for, it doesn't exist until you actually get it.

As far as telling them what you want. It can be difficult to dodge that question. I like Lambskin's suggestion about waiting until you both agree you're a good fit to discuss salary. Also, salary is only one component of the compensation package and you'd really prefer to consider the whole package.

I doubt you're out of the running, but it sounds like they're keeping you on a string as plan B.

If the promotion is offered just take it. If the new job offer comes the next day, then evaluate the offer and make a decision. You don't owe your current company anything just because they gave you a promotion.

 
brun said:
Also, salary is only one component of the compensation package and you'd really prefer to consider the whole package..
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Thanks Brun. This is a good way to answer when asked about salary expectations. 

When the job offer didn't come within a week after the final interview, I figured I was either out or plan B.

 
brun said:
I wouldn't have mentioned the possible promotion. Just like the new job you're interviewing for, it doesn't exist until you actually get it.

As far as telling them what you want. It can be difficult to dodge that question. I like Lambskin's suggestion about waiting until you both agree you're a good fit to discuss salary. Also, salary is only one component of the compensation package and you'd really prefer to consider the whole package.

I doubt you're out of the running, but it sounds like they're keeping you on a string as plan B.

If the promotion is offered just take it. If the new job offer comes the next day, then evaluate the offer and make a decision. You don't owe your current company anything just because they gave you a promotion.
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KCitons said:
Thanks Brun. This is a good way to answer when asked about salary expectations. 

When the job offer didn't come within a week after the final interview, I figured I was either out or plan B.
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Just to be clear. I didn't mean to suggest answering with the bolded (though I can see it being interpreted that way). I meant that's one more reason for you to use something along the lines of Lambskin's suggestion. Using what I typed could be perceived as you're more concerned about your needs than theirs. Until they decide to make an offer, pretty much everything you say should be about what you can do for them.

Of course, others may disagree.

 
Isn't there some concern about this backfiring? As I mentioned, I had a quick phone interview with an HR recruiter when she scheduled the first interview. She asked about salary, and I could see side stepping the question at that time. The first interview was with the HR Recruiter, a Director, and a VP. The question was brought up a second time. I could have danced around a hard number at this time.The final interview had the HR Recruiter, and two VP's. (one of the guys from interview #2).  Towards the end, the salary question was asked again. At this time, the discussion evolved into not just salary, but 401k, vacation, etc. But, if I refuse to answer at this time, I would think it would do more harm than good. 

Honestly, I took it as a test to see if I was consistent on my salary expectations. Although I didn't show it, I was kind of frustrated as to why they asked a third time. My salary expectation hasn't changed since the original phone interview. I answered exactly the same way all three times. 

Which bring me back to the possibility that they like me, but can't afford me. 

 
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BREAKING!!  (if CNN can use it, so can I)

Found a job listing through a third party recruiter. A few things were changed, but there was enough left to know it was the same job/company. They also posted the salary. It's a lot lower than what I was asking. 

I told my wife after the first interview, that they asked a couple of strange questions. Not so much about me, but specifics questions that I thought they weren't looking for specific answer,  because they barely understood the question. I also had to explain one of my certifications. I just chalked it up to them not being in my field. But that information made it onto the new job description. 

Now I know. They couldn't afford me. And they used me to gather information.

 
KCitons said:
BREAKING!!  (if CNN can use it, so can I)

Found a job listing through a third party recruiter. A few things were changed, but there was enough left to know it was the same job/company. They also posted the salary. It's a lot lower than what I was asking. 

I told my wife after the first interview, that they asked a couple of strange questions. Not so much about me, but specifics questions that I thought they weren't looking for specific answer,  because they barely understood the question. I also had to explain one of my certifications. I just chalked it up to them not being in my field. But that information made it onto the new job description. 

Now I know. They couldn't afford me. And they used me to gather information.
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That sucks.  Oh well, you can sleep better now.  They couldn't afford you anyway.

 
I received a call today from a recruiter. (different company than the one that posted the job a month ago) He got my name from my previous boss. He started talking to me about my qualifications and felt I'd be a good fit for this position. When he told me the name of the company, I stopped him and explained I've already interviewed with the company (twice)   :lol:

He seemed shocked that they didn't think I was a good fit. I explained that I thought it was due to salary. When he asked how much I was looking for, I told him to go #### himself and hung up.

Hopefully I handled this salary negotiation better than the last time. 

 
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