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The Bosa/Chargers Situation (1 Viewer)

IMHO..Both...This is just stupid. Most will blame the Chargers as they have a history of messing with talent. Some will see it as a slotted player should fall in line with all those who were slotted before him. To an educated man who sees that the Chargers spent a coveted draft slot to get him and has the career of the head coach in the balance of this season riding on the outcome...It's the Chargers fault. If you want talent then that will cost.

DUH 

 
Considering the huge win the owners got in the CBA regarding rookies since the days of Jamarcus Rustle, it makes no sense for them to quibble over stuff like this.

 
My understanding is Bosa is asking for something 19 out of 24 top 5 picks have received - 16/20 going into this year, 3/4 & TBD in 2016 - since the slotting system began.

To my simple mind the team is 80% at fault. Given their history, bump it to 90%.

 
This doesn't surprise me. It's the Chargers. They don't know how to run an organization. Haven't for years. 

 
My understanding is Bosa is asking for something 19 out of 24 top 5 picks have received - 16/20 going into this year, 3/4 & TBD in 2016 - since the slotting system began.

To my simple mind the team is 80% at fault. Given their history, bump it to 90%.
And all top 3 picks in the last five years if i remember right.

 
Chargers aren't doing anything wrong. Bosa isn't doing anything wrong. They're both just trying to use leverage to get a better deal.

The media and most people posting here will just create as much drama as possible, but no one is at fault here...it's just business.

 
Chargers ownership is a Mom and Pop operation.  They don't like to give money up front.

Bosa wasn't the only Ohio State 1st round draft pick in this year's draft.

Zeke and the LB and O-Lineman all got paid up front and I'm sure Joey spoke to them and wanted his money up front but the Chargers refused.

Impasse.  

 
Chargers aren't doing anything wrong. Bosa isn't doing anything wrong. They're both just trying to use leverage to get a better deal.

The media and most people posting here will just create as much drama as possible, but no one is at fault here...it's just business.
Could not disagree more, unless the team doesn't care about winning games. If they do care about winning games, then the team is 100% wrong to take this approach.

 
The bonus is strange because it's all 17 million either right now or half now and half next year. You never know the financial state of a team/owner and this is even more foggy because of the potential move from SD. ***From a "big brother" view I would prefer is the league made it mandatory that any rookie guaranteed bonuses are more spread out or have to be placed in an investment account that they only have access to with drawn from at certain times or intervals. This way the players still have all their money but they don't go broke as quick. Say Year 1 = 40%, year 2 = 20%, year 3 = 20%, year 4 = 20%. It makes me sad hearing about these guys going broke. This probably won't help because guys will take out loans but at least it would get them into the world of professional investing. And maybe an execute not to give out so many family loans.***

The offset thing requires more history. Has SD done this before? How often do rookies receive the offset language that Bosa is asking for? Because if Bosa is asking for something that the Chargers or league rarely do then it becomes about more than just Bosa. 

@Hankmoody Is usually really on point this kind of stuff. 

 
Could not disagree more, unless the team doesn't care about winning games. If they do care about winning games, then the team is 100% wrong to take this approach.
Like I said...drama. lol. The chargers have a very good reason for not wanting to pay more $ to a guy they may cut in 3 seasons.

Anyone telling you otherwise is either biased or doesn't know business.

 
Chargers aren't doing anything wrong. Bosa isn't doing anything wrong. They're both just trying to use leverage to get a better deal.

The media and most people posting here will just create as much drama as possible, but no one is at fault here...it's just business.
WE live here and live it everyday. The Chargers almost...ALMOST piss me off more than the Padres. EVERYTHING on the cheap. Except tix prices and parking and beer and hot dogs and new stadiums..the list is endless. 

 
The bonus is strange because it's all 17 million either right now or half now and half next year. You never know the financial state of a team/owner and this is even more foggy because of the potential move from SD. ***From a "big brother" view I would prefer is the league made it mandatory that any rookie guaranteed bonuses are more spread out or have to be placed in an investment account that they only have access to with drawn from at certain times or intervals. This way the players still have all their money but they don't go broke as quick. Say Year 1 = 40%, year 2 = 20%, year 3 = 20%, year 4 = 20%. It makes me sad hearing about these guys going broke. This probably won't help because guys will take out loans but at least it would get them into the world of professional investing. And maybe an execute not to give out so many family loans.***

The offset thing requires more history. Has SD done this before? How often do rookies receive the offset language that Bosa is asking for? Because if Bosa is asking for something that the Chargers or league rarely do then it becomes about more than just Bosa. 

@Hankmoody Is usually really on point this kind of stuff. 
If I were an intelligent first round draft pick, I certainly wouldn't want my employer telling me how to spend my $. If I blow it all, that's on me 100%. Would you like your employer to pay you 40% of your salary in year 1 and not allowing you to see the other 60% until subsequent year?

You know all players have this option personally right now, right? They choose not to do it.

 
If I were an intelligent first round draft pick, I certainly wouldn't want my employer telling me how to spend my $. If I blow it all, that's on me 100%. Would you like your employer to pay you 40% of your salary in year 1 and not allowing you to see the other 60% until subsequent year?

You know all players have this option personally right now, right? They choose not to do it.
This is almost impossible to answer. lol. Good job. Most of us have "hit the field" in our job and will have deserved a bonus or not. 

 
Both sides are being a bit silly, but if one side is morally in the wrong, it's the Chargers.

The offset language and the timing of the bonus payout are fairly trivial in the grand scheme of things. Neither issue, from the perspective of either side, is worth the holdout. The holdout hurts both the player and the team, and it hurts each more than losing on those bargaining points hurts. So each side should cave rather than endure a holdout.

Bosa is additionally being silly because he has no leverage. There is zero chance that he'll start missing game checks over these issues. A single game check is worth more than the acceleration of the bonus plus the expected value of foregoing the offset. So Bosa will sign before Week 1 even if the Chargers don't budge on their position. Given that he'll sign before Week 1 for the same terms he's being offered now, he may as well sign now.

The Chargers are not only being silly, but they are also being unjustifiably cheap. Even if they gave Bosa the full bonus now and caved on the offset language, Bosa's contract will still be very cheap compared to veterans expected to perform similarly. They are already exploiting Bosa's disadvantaged status under the CBA -- there's no good reason to twist the knife. Caving on at least one of the disputed provisions would not only end the holdout, but it would also just be the decent thing to do for a valued employee who is already getting the short end of the stick.

 
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Both sides are being a bit silly, but if one side is morally in the wrong, it's the Chargers.

The offset language and the timing of the bonus payout are fairly trivial in the grand scheme of things. Neither issue, from the perspective of either side, is worth the holdout. The holdout hurts both the player and the team, and it hurts each more than losing on those bargaining points hurts. So each side should cave rather than go through a holdout.

Bosa is additionally being silly because he has no leverage. There is zero chance that he'll start missing game checks over these issues. A single game check is worth more than the acceleration of the bonus plus the expected value of foregoing the offset. So Bosa will sign before Week 1 even if the Chargers don't budge on their position. Given that he'll sign before Week 1 for the same terms he's being offered now, he may as well sign now.

The Chargers are not only being silly, but they are also being unjustifiably cheap. Even if they gave Bosa the full bonus now and caved on the offset language, Bosa's contract will still be very cheap compared to veterans expected to perform similarly. They are already exploiting Bosa's disadvantaged status under the CBA -- there's no good reason to twist the knife. Caving on at least one of the disputed provisions would not only end the holdout, but it would also just be the decent thing to do for a valued employee who is already getting the short end of the stick.
Jesus! Yes! ^^^^This! We are f'n tired of Charger BS. At one point we were considering backing a RAIDERS move here..lol. What does that say??? 

 
I don't get it, are the Chargers broke? A signing bonus is a bonus you get, fully, when you sign. Why should Bosa have to settle for anything less? 

Don't get me wrong, the guy seems like a supreme ########, but this is just business.

Chargers look like idiots here, damaging their relationship with a potential franchise player over a few bucks that is a drop in the bucket not only in comparison to their actual finances, but to their cap space. This is just dumb. 

 
Both sides are being a bit silly, but if one side is morally in the wrong, it's the Chargers.

The offset language and the timing of the bonus payout are fairly trivial in the grand scheme of things. Neither issue, from the perspective of either side, is worth the holdout. The holdout hurts both the player and the team, and it hurts each more than losing on those bargaining points hurts. So each side should cave rather than endure a holdout.

Bosa is additionally being silly because he has no leverage. There is zero chance that he'll start missing game checks over these issues. A single game check is worth more than the acceleration of the bonus plus the expected value of foregoing the offset. So Bosa will sign before Week 1 even if the Chargers don't budge on their position. Given that he'll sign before Week 1 for the same terms he's being offered now, he may as well sign now.

The Chargers are not only being silly, but they are also being unjustifiably cheap. Even if they gave Bosa the full bonus now and caved on the offset language, Bosa's contract will still be very cheap compared to veterans expected to perform similarly. They are already exploiting Bosa's disadvantaged status under the CBA -- there's no good reason to twist the knife. Caving on at least one of the disputed provisions would not only end the holdout, but it would also just be the decent thing to do for a valued employee who is already getting the short end of the stick.
And thats all Bosa wants. One of the issues at hand. Seems kind of obtuse for the Chargers to expect him to cave on both. 

 
Warrior would disagree....Some don't see as we do. This is just business...And it would be if it weren't the Chargers..lol They hate on talent.  :wall:

 
I don't think so. I'm not sure, but I believe the Chargers lose the rights to him at the start of the 2017 league year, which is why he'd go back into the draft.
From what ive read they lose his rights when the draft starts. That info could be wrong though.
MT is correct.  SD only retains him until the end of 2016. And they cannot sign him after week 10.  The deadline to trade him has already passed, that has to be done 30 days prior to the start of the season at the latest.

 
Heres the article i was referencing, saying they retain him until the draft starts. Sounds like it wrong?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/08/09/window-closes-on-potential-trade-of-joey-bosa-in-2016/
We're all wrong.

CBA Article 6 Section 4

(b) If a Drafted Rookie has not signed a Player Contract during the period
from the date of such Draft to the thirtieth day prior to the first game of the regular
season: (i) the Club that drafted the player may not thereafter trade to another Club
either its exclusive negotiating rights to such player or any Player Contract that it signs
with such player for the player's initial League Year; and (ii) the Club that drafted the
player is the only Club- with which the player may sign a Player Contract until the day of
the Draft in the subsequent League Year
, at which time

They retain him until the draft but his rights cannot be traded prior to it.

 
The bonus is strange because it's all 17 million either right now or half now and half next year. You never know the financial state of a team/owner and this is even more foggy because of the potential move from SD. ***From a "big brother" view I would prefer is the league made it mandatory that any rookie guaranteed bonuses are more spread out or have to be placed in an investment account that they only have access to with drawn from at certain times or intervals. This way the players still have all their money but they don't go broke as quick. Say Year 1 = 40%, year 2 = 20%, year 3 = 20%, year 4 = 20%. It makes me sad hearing about these guys going broke. This probably won't help because guys will take out loans but at least it would get them into the world of professional investing. And maybe an execute not to give out so many family loans.***

The offset thing requires more history. Has SD done this before? How often do rookies receive the offset language that Bosa is asking for? Because if Bosa is asking for something that the Chargers or league rarely do then it becomes about more than just Bosa. 

@Hankmoody Is usually really on point this kind of stuff. 
Chargers generally require some amount of offset money.  Many teams negotiate it into rookie deals and the occasional veteran deal (that's rare though).  Wents and Goff (picked immediately before/after Bosa) both have offset language and both deferred some of their signing bonus - they'll both get it at the end of this season IIRC.  This isn't exactly uncharted territory.  For every person saying the Chargers are being cheap there could be another saying Bosa is being greedy.  Neither is right, it's just business negotiations.

MT really hit it on the head - this is all more about precedent than actual applicable benefit.  The salary portion of Bosa's pay is pennies compared to the overall value of the deal, so offsetting it doesn't save much.  It's probably more of a cap benefit than a true financial one, although the Spanos family isn't the wealthiest of NFL owners.

 
For every person saying the Chargers are being cheap there could be another saying Bosa is being greedy.  Neither is right, it's just business negotiations.
But there is a difference.

In theory, every NFL franchise should always be operating in a manner that will maximize their chances of winning as many games as possible. With the stadium issue, that might be even more important to the Chargers this year than usual. Meanwhile, McCoy's job is on the line, which means most or all of the jobs of the coaching staff are on the line. For most NFL franchises, Telesco's job would be on the line, too, not sure if that holds with the Chargers (Spanos).

The DL was arguably the team's worst position group the last few years. The franchise needs Bosa to be an impact player from week 1. The franchise's stance on this contract is costing Bosa practice time that might make a difference on the field this season. The franchise has allowed this situation to reach the point where they are knowingly not maximizing their chance to win as many games as possible this season. The franchise is hurting itself.

Some might say the same is true of Bosa, i.e., he is hurting himself. But he really isn't. His teammates will view this like you do -- just business. So it won't hurt him with them. The coaching staff needs him, so it won't hurt him with them. It might prevent him from playing as well as he might have this season, but he will still get fully paid. And by the time of his next contract, this will be years behind him, and this situation will have no bearing on the value of that next contract.

 
What's up with LT and Gates calling him out?  That's an unspoken rule every veteran knows not to break.  

as far as the team operating in a way counter to winning, These are same fools that put Gates on a roster exempt list forcing him to miss the 2005 season opener.

 
What's up with LT and Gates calling him out?  That's an unspoken rule every veteran knows not to break.  

as far as the team operating in a way counter to winning, These are same fools that put Gates on a roster exempt list forcing him to miss the 2005 season opener.
Both of them said kind of the same thing, that Bosa has to take control of the situation and not just let other people take care of it.

 
But there is a difference.

In theory, every NFL franchise should always be operating in a manner that will maximize their chances of winning as many games as possible. With the stadium issue, that might be even more important to the Chargers this year than usual. Meanwhile, McCoy's job is on the line, which means most or all of the jobs of the coaching staff are on the line. For most NFL franchises, Telesco's job would be on the line, too, not sure if that holds with the Chargers (Spanos).
That's why I said "business negotiation" and not "football operations negotiation".  This obviously isn't about football.

 
Classic Chargers. Buy us a Billion Dollar Stadium and we will be cheap and not pay talent that can help us to a championship. Don't worry about it San Diegans- It's just business. 

 
This seems like a tempest in a teacup to me. If SD doubles it's win total they go from 4 wins to 8. If they got absolutely nothing from Bosa..... that's like 7.5 wins instead of 8? We are talking about a DE here, not a QB. And despite being the third pick overall not many consider Bosa to be a double digit sack monster that actually changes the defense anyway.

I'm not sure which side looks more silly, the Chargers for having no confidence in the guy they selected #3 overall being anything but a bust or the player himself not having any confidence he can go a year or two before being a complete bust. 

Remind me again why they couldn't trade down in the draft when BAL and TEN were trying to maneuver up in the draft?

 
SD is clearly in the wrong here but at this point doesn't Bosa have to bite the bullet?  He probably doesn't even go in the first round next year. Play out this contract and sign somewhere else in 5 years.

 
SD is clearly in the wrong here but at this point doesn't Bosa have to bite the bullet?  He probably doesn't even go in the first round next year. Play out this contract and sign somewhere else in 5 years.
I think he still goes in the top half of the 1st but could be wrong. Hes not asking for anything crazy and im sure the other teams know that. San Diego also has as much to lose as he does imo. They would essentially be forfeiting the #3 overall pick in the draft for no compensation. 

 
I think he still goes in the top half of the 1st but could be wrong. Hes not asking for anything crazy and im sure the other teams know that. San Diego also has as much to lose as he does imo. They would essentially be forfeiting the #3 overall pick in the draft for no compensation. 
While I mostly blame the Chargers for this mess, Bosa has much more to lose.

If he sits out and re-enters the draft next year, he stands to lose millions. As this year's #3 pick, he would be guaranteed $26.56M if he signs. The #8 pick was guaranteed $16.38M. So just slipping 5 picks would cost more than $10M. Not to mention that he wouldn't earn anything for 2016, losing a year of earnings and a year accrued towards his second contract.

It would be incredibly stupid for him to sit out the season. For that reason, I expect him to sign sooner or later, which means he should sign before the season, so he doesn't lose any game checks. Which means not signing when the Chargers made their most recent offer was stupid.

 
I can't imagine being a guy fresh out of college sitting out a year missing out on millions of $$$.  He must really trust his agent.  I think we'll see him on the field this year though.

 
I'm not sure which side looks more silly,
Its the team. 

1) He was gonna sign if they removed the offset. An offset that many/most teams do not have in their contracts.What does the offset state?  That if they cut him and he signs with another team, that they would no longer be on the hook for the guarantees. Or even worse, that if they cut him they straight up don't have to pay him anything. WTF.

2) Think about that - the team wants to make the guarantee... not guaranteed.  This isn't basketball or baseball with fully guaranteed contracts.

3) If he gets cut and doesn't play, then you have to pay him his guarantees. If he gets hurt and missing these years or has a forced retirement you have to pay him.

4) The contract is 4 years (with a team 5th). So unless the Charges cut him after three years, they will have already paid 75% of the guarantee.  Is there ANY chance you cut the #3 pick after year 1 or year 2? Virtually no chance.  So after three years you would only owe him 1/4 of the guarantee bonus.  What is that? 6.5 million or so dollars at most.

5) YOU ARE CAUSING THIS ENTIRE RIFT AND DAMAGING PROCESS OVER 6.5 MILLION DOLLARS?

Really?  No... ####ing really?

The Charger owner and his GM goons are stooges.  This isn't just Bosa you are talking about. But every agent and every player you might ever do business with.

 
While I mostly blame the Chargers for this mess, Bosa has much more to lose.

If he sits out and re-enters the draft next year, he stands to lose millions. As this year's #3 pick, he would be guaranteed $26.56M if he signs. The #8 pick was guaranteed $16.38M. So just slipping 5 picks would cost more than $10M. Not to mention that he wouldn't earn anything for 2016, losing a year of earnings and a year accrued towards his second contract.

It would be incredibly stupid for him to sit out the season. For that reason, I expect him to sign sooner or later, which means he should sign before the season, so he doesn't lose any game checks. Which means not signing when the Chargers made their most recent offer was stupid.
Disagree, i think the losses are pretty even. Next year the #5 pick will earn roughly what the #3 pick received this year. Add in the high California tax rate and it probably stretches in out to the 7th or 8th pick being pretty similar to this years 3rd. He does miss a year of earnings and a year towards the lucrative 2nd contract. 

Losing a top 5 pick is pretty devastating as well though. Especially to a franchise looking for a new stadium. They look like the laughing stock of the NFL and very dysfunctional.

 

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