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⚽ Soccer Match-day Thread (7 Viewers)

I am very happy Liverpool had a great game, but that Salah dive ruined it a bit for me.  Arsenal is in a nice battle now.  I could see that one going either way.  

Since it's halftime I put on the Antalyaspor match.  That pitch is in really bad shape

  What's the story with that?

 
I am very happy Liverpool had a great game, but that Salah dive ruined it a bit for me.  Arsenal is in a nice battle now.  I could see that one going either way.  

Since it's halftime I put on the Antalyaspor match.  That pitch is in really bad shape

  What's the story with that?
Yeah, Salah made a complete meal of that.  He was pulled a bit, but not enough to warrant him going down.  50/50 whether it's a penalty, wouldn't argue it either way to be honest. 

 
I would bet on Spurs for sure taking those odds.
Nah, this is Liverpool's title to lose. 6 points is a massive gap - even if they lose the next two matches to Arsenal and City.

Its hard to see this Liverpool team dropping points to the bottom-14 this season.  But, if you assume Liverpool dropped 11 points in the 2nd half, nearly twice as many as the first half, Spurs would only be able to drop 4 points the rest of the season to pass Liverpool. That is an unlikely scenario. So, it would take Liverpool losing the title, more than Spurs, or City, winning it. 

 
Soccer puts me on tilt like no other sport. Sorry. 
Terrible decision to give the second yellow. Also, racist chanting directed at KK, one Inter ultra dead, at least 4 Napoli fans stabbed, Napoli bus attacked by ultras. Curva nord likely to be closed for a game, the beautiful game to resume thereafter.  

 
Nah, this is Liverpool's title to lose.
Not on my watch!

Liverpool are incredibly lucky to even be in front right now.  If Mahrez buries the PK (+2 for City, -1 for Liverpool), the magic ball doesn't spin back in v Everton (-2 for Liverpool) and Sturridge doesn't channel the ghost of Pirlo @ Chelsea (-1 point) City are in first place on goal difference, and likely going three clear next week.

Liverpool will need continued good fortune to hold on thru May.

 
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Not on my watch!

Liverpool are incredibly lucky to even be in front right now.  If Mahrez buries the PK (+2 for City, -1 for Liverpool), the magic ball doesn't spin back in v Everton (-2 for Liverpool) and Sturridge doesn't channel the ghost of Pirlo @ Chelsea (-1 point) City are in first place on goal difference, and likely going three clear next week.

Liverpool will need continued good fortune to hold on thru May.
You just described all 38 LC games a few seasons back. 

I agree with Sinn here... with that D and that O and city dropping points, there's no way in the current situation. That said, it's still a long ways to go, and injuries could play a role. 

 
You just described all 38 LC games a few seasons back. 

I agree with Sinn here... with that D and that O and city dropping points, there's no way in the current situation. That said, it's still a long ways to go, and injuries could play a role. 
The most imposing hurdle LFC face is the fact I picked them to win the title this season.  My 2018 was uncannily bad for soccer predictions.  Not just wrong, but woefully bad, often predicting the exact opposite of what came to pass.

 
Nah, this is Liverpool's title to lose. 6 points is a massive gap - even if they lose the next two matches to Arsenal and City.

Its hard to see this Liverpool team dropping points to the bottom-14 this season.  But, if you assume Liverpool dropped 11 points in the 2nd half, nearly twice as many as the first half, Spurs would only be able to drop 4 points the rest of the season to pass Liverpool. That is an unlikely scenario. So, it would take Liverpool losing the title, more than Spurs, or City, winning it. 
Be a shame if they let it slip.

 
You just described all 38 LC games a few seasons back. 

I agree with Sinn here... with that D and that O and city dropping points, there's no way in the current situation. That said, it's still a long ways to go, and injuries could will play a role. 
Fixed. Happens every season. Injuries and fatigue will start happening soon for everyone.

Obviously we can't know exactly how the managers have worked with their teams to maximize performance and at what times, but it seemed to me that Man City was in peak form to start the season, likely to try and get a head start, like last year, and kill the league early, Liverpool seemed sluggish to start, but coming into form over the Christmas fixtures, not sure on the others.

As always I think it will come down to how teams perform when they are not at their peak, and of course injuries.

Asia Cup could affect some as well I think. Son is going? That could affect Spurs.

ETA: I like that we have 4-5 teams fighting this out, and not just have the league wrapped up early, or between 1 or 2. Makes for a very interesting spring.

 
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Not on my watch!

Liverpool are incredibly lucky to even be in front right now.  If Mahrez buries the PK (+2 for City, -1 for Liverpool), the magic ball doesn't spin back in v Everton (-2 for Liverpool) and Sturridge doesn't channel the ghost of Pirlo @ Chelsea (-1 point) City are in first place on goal difference, and likely going three clear next week.

Liverpool will need continued good fortune to hold on thru May.
Great post.  Season is half over.  LFC have had some lucky breaks.  In the second half, I’d like to see the offense perform better.  A lot of missed chances and opportunities this season, as crazy as that may sound looking at the table.

 
I like that we have 4-5 teams fighting this out, and not just have the league wrapped up early, or between 1 or 2. Makes for a very interesting spring.
:lmao:

4-5 teams?  It's barely 2-3. Chelsea and Arsenal are nowhere near a title race.

As as for Son, he will leave for the knockout stage.  He will be at Spurs for the match v. Man United on Jan 13, then he leaves for a couple of weeks. 

I don't think anyone else of significance is going to the Asia Cup, but I could be forgetting someone on another team. 

 
:lmao:

4-5 teams?  It's barely 2-3. Chelsea and Arsenal are nowhere near a title race.

As as for Son, he will leave for the knockout stage.  He will be at Spurs for the match v. Man United on Jan 13, then he leaves for a couple of weeks. 

I don't think anyone else of significance is going to the Asia Cup, but I could be forgetting someone on another team. 
Not now, but a couple of injuries, maybe and the right results over the rest of the festive fixtures.

Matchday 20:

  • Liverpool - Arsenal - Arsenal win
  • Palace - Chelsea - Chelsea win
  • Tottenham - Wolves - Draw
  • Southampton - Man City - City win
Matchday 21:

  • Man City - Liverpool - Draw
  • Arsenal - Fulham - Arsenal win
  • Chelsea - Southampton - Chelsea win
  • Cardiff - Tottenham - Tottenham win
That gives us

  • Liverpool 51pts
  • Tottenham 49pts
  • City 48pts
  • Chelsea 46pts
  • Arsenal 44pts
I don't think either of these results would be waaaaaay far fetched.

 
Yeah, Salah made a complete meal of that.  He was pulled a bit, but not enough to warrant him going down.  50/50 whether it's a penalty, wouldn't argue it either way to be honest. 
Looked a pen in real time, but as always, it's hard to tell on TV. Slow-mo helps put doubt in peoples mind too.  Considering Mo's not at all known for going down, in fact considering how much he has been hacked on and still stayed up many times before, I am inclined to believe it was a foul and a pen. (If it would've been Mane I'm not so sure, lol. He seems to go down a lot easier this year.) Liverpool's first home pen since October 2017, so we were due. Didn't (really) affect the game outcome either way, so not sure what all the whinging is about.

 
Looked a pen in real time, but as always, it's hard to tell on TV. Slow-mo helps put doubt in peoples mind too.  Considering Mo's not at all known for going down, in fact considering how much he has been hacked on and still stayed up many times before, I am inclined to believe it was a foul and a pen. (If it would've been Mane I'm not so sure, lol. He seems to go down a lot easier this year.) Liverpool's first home pen since October 2017, so we were due. Didn't (really) affect the game outcome either way, so not sure what all the whinging is about.
Most of the "whinging" is about him not getting a 2 game ban and missing the Arsenal and City games for the obvious dive.  And the wonder if they were going to be playing Fulham and Brighton would he have been suspended?

Now I haven't seen it so I can't say one way or the other but this is the discussion I have been hearing from pundits.  

 
Most of the "whinging" is about him not getting a 2 game ban and missing the Arsenal and City games for the obvious dive.  And the wonder if they were going to be playing Fulham and Brighton would he have been suspended?

Now I haven't seen it so I can't say one way or the other but this is the discussion I have been hearing from pundits.  
Well, I saw it live, and watched the game back a few times, and in full speed it looks to me like the defender pulled on his shoulder, which caused him to lose balance. Maybe he could've stayed up, I don't know, it's hard to tell, but as with many decisions it looks different in real time, and in slow motion.

I didn't know people were calling for a ban. That seems ridiculous. 

 
Most of the "whinging" is about him not getting a 2 game ban and missing the Arsenal and City games for the obvious dive.  And the wonder if they were going to be playing Fulham and Brighton would he have been suspended?

Now I haven't seen it so I can't say one way or the other but this is the discussion I have been hearing from pundits.  
Here it is

The defender put his arm on his shoulder and gave a little pull.  That shouldn't have resulted in Mo going down like he did.  It's still probably a penalty, but very soft.  If it went uncalled, I don't think many would complain.  But, as a defender, you also can't complain when a penalty is called when you put your hands on a striker in the box.

I don't see how you can call it a blatant dive to deceive the ref when there is contact in the box and I think that's why he didn't get a 2 match ban.  Mo certainly oversold what happened, but considering he's not one to normally do that and the fact that he routinely gets hacked without getting calls, I'll give him a pass this time.  I certainly hope this doesn't turn into a Dele Alli type habit. 

 
Here it is

The defender put his arm on his shoulder and gave a little pull.  That shouldn't have resulted in Mo going down like he did.  It's still probably a penalty, but very soft.  If it went uncalled, I don't think many would complain.  But, as a defender, you also can't complain when a penalty is called when you put your hands on a striker in the box.

I don't see how you can call it a blatant dive to deceive the ref when there is contact in the box and I think that's why he didn't get a 2 match ban.  Mo certainly oversold what happened, but considering he's not one to normally do that and the fact that he routinely gets hacked without getting calls, I'll give him a pass this time.  I certainly hope this doesn't turn into a Dele Alli type habit. 
Yeah, I hadn't seen that angle before, and it looks like an exaggeration for the ref to notice. Still, in real time it looked accurate to me. 

 
Re: Salah - my take is it was an embellishment, not a dive.  There was contact - Salah over dramatized the effect of that contact. 

I'd like to see that eliminated also, but its not as egregious as a flat-out dive. 

 
Re: Salah - my take is it was an embellishment, not a dive.  There was contact - Salah over dramatized the effect of that contact. 

I'd like to see that eliminated also, but its not as egregious as a flat-out dive. 
Yup, agreed. Funny that he was criticized (by Shearer I believe) last week when he didn't go down after being hacked all over his Achilles. 

 
Re: Salah - my take is it was an embellishment, not a dive.  There was contact - Salah over dramatized the effect of that contact. 

I'd like to see that eliminated also, but its not as egregious as a flat-out dive. 
We agree!!

And yes, I'd like it eliminated IF/WHEN they go to VAR for review of these fouls.  With a bit of bias, Salah seems like one of the guys that gets fouled more than gets called.  I'd still rather he didn't start going down to compensate but would understand it if he did.  If VAR gets implemented and they whistle some of the softer contact to look at it, then I would want them to crack down on the embellishment as well.  This would be one of those plays.

If I had my druthers, and this play happened exactly as it did with VAR, play would be stopped, VAR would look and try and determine PK.  I think that's still a tough call for this one using VAR and wouldn't complain either way, but Mo should get a yellow for embellishment.  No match bans.  Dives, however, where players go down without any contact, should be a straight red and a 1-2 match ban depending on when it took place (1st half = 2 games, 2nd half = 1-2 games depending on impact on the game).

I know it'll never happen that way, but it would be my preference to balance things out.

 
Here it is

The defender put his arm on his shoulder and gave a little pull.  That shouldn't have resulted in Mo going down like he did.  It's still probably a penalty, but very soft.  If it went uncalled, I don't think many would complain.  But, as a defender, you also can't complain when a penalty is called when you put your hands on a striker in the box.

I don't see how you can call it a blatant dive to deceive the ref when there is contact in the box and I think that's why he didn't get a 2 match ban.  Mo certainly oversold what happened, but considering he's not one to normally do that and the fact that he routinely gets hacked without getting calls, I'll give him a pass this time.  I certainly hope this doesn't turn into a Dele Alli type habit. 
Thanks.  That looks better then what was being described on the radio and discussed by the pundits in England.  The discussion made it sound like slight contact, 2 steps then throwing himself down for the PK.  This I could see not being banned for.

 
Not now, but a couple of injuries, maybe and the right results over the rest of the festive fixtures.

Matchday 20:

  • Liverpool - Arsenal - Arsenal win
  • Palace - Chelsea - Chelsea win
  • Tottenham - Wolves - Draw
  • Southampton - Man City - City win
Matchday 21:

  • Man City - Liverpool - Draw
  • Arsenal - Fulham - Arsenal win
  • Chelsea - Southampton - Chelsea win
  • Cardiff - Tottenham - Tottenham win
That gives us

  • Liverpool 51pts
  • Tottenham 49pts
  • City 48pts
  • Chelsea 46pts
  • Arsenal 44pts
I don't think either of these results would be waaaaaay far fetched.
Nope.   (*Note that Liverpool would be at 52 in your scenario, not 51, and if Spurs can't beat Wolves at Wembley, they are out of the race before they were ever in the race.)

Lets assume that Liverpool lose both matches, and Spurs and City (and Chelsea and Arsenal) all win.

Liverpool 51
Spurs 51
City 50
Chelsea 46
Arsenal 44

That seems close.  But, if you look closer, Liverpool now have 14 matches v. Bottom-14, and only 3 against Spurs (H), United (A), and Chelsea (H)

While Spurs have 12 matches v. Bottom-14, and 5 matches against top-6 teams - traveling to Liverpool, City and Chelsea.   Chelsea would also have 5 matches remaining against the top-6.  That clearly favors Liverpool in a year where the gap in quality is so large.  If Liverpool drop 11 points, or nearly double what they did in the first half, Spurs can only drop 4 points for the entire 2nd half.  You have them dropping 2 in the first match...

Liverpool have been helped by losing early in the League Cup - while Spurs, City, and Chelsea still continue, and Arsenal just lost.  I would not be shocked if Liverpool lost early in the CL, while City and Spurs advance, and Chelsea and Arsenal advance in Europa.  That would give Liverpool an even bigger advantage.

No matter how you slice this - Liverpool have a huge advantage.  Only two things can swing that advantage:  Injuries, which nobody wants; or, Liverpool bottle the race and lose from ahead.

 
What's more interesting:

Virgil has played 33 times in the league for Liverpool with 16 goals conceded; the previous 33 before van Dijk in the league saw Liverpool concede 41 times.

At least 3 of the goals conceded has been on dodgy pens at Anfield (that I can recall), and also includes playing with Migs/Karius for 14 games.

 
No matter how you slice this - Liverpool have a huge advantage.  Only two things can swing that advantage:  Injuries, which nobody wants; or, Liverpool bottle the race and lose from ahead.
I don't disagree that they have the advantage, I just don't think it's over. Injuries will still play a huge role. (the bolded is not unheard of either)

We are only half way.

 
What's more interesting:

Virgil has played 33 times in the league for Liverpool with 16 goals conceded; the previous 33 before van Dijk in the league saw Liverpool concede 41 times.

At least 3 of the goals conceded has been on dodgy pens at Anfield (that I can recall), and also includes playing with Migs/Karius for 14 games.
Fewest goals conceded in one season was 15 by Chelsea back in 2004.  Liverpool has 7 halfway through the season.  That's including playing @Tott, @Chelsea, @Arsenal, vs. City and vs. United.  

I still can't believe they haven't conceded 2 goals in any EPL match so far this year.  I'm sure that changes @Citeh in a couple weeks, but geez.  Hopefully Citeh's skid can last just 2 more weeks.....

 
8 of the last 9 teams on top of the table at Christmas went on to win the league

Liverpool are only the 4th PL team to be unbeaten at the halfway stage of a season along with Arsenal 03/04, Man United 10/11, City 17/18.  The previous 3 went on to win the league.

 
charvik said:
Fixed. Happens every season. Injuries and fatigue will start happening soon for everyone.

Obviously we can't know exactly how the managers have worked with their teams to maximize performance and at what times, but it seemed to me that Man City was in peak form to start the season, likely to try and get a head start, like last year, and kill the league early, Liverpool seemed sluggish to start, but coming into form over the Christmas fixtures, not sure on the others.

As always I think it will come down to how teams perform when they are not at their peak, and of course injuries.

Asia Cup could affect some as well I think. Son is going? That could affect Spurs.

ETA: I like that we have 4-5 teams fighting this out, and not just have the league wrapped up early, or between 1 or 2. Makes for a very interesting spring.
There's injuries and there's injuries. If VVD, Alison, mo or mane goes down, that's different than just about anybody else.

Leicester survived the whole season with Mahrez, Vardy, Morgan, Huth and Kante pretty much intact IIRC.

Of course they didn't have Europe to deal with, which makes a difference.

 
There's injuries and there's injuries. If VVD, Alison, mo or mane goes down, that's different than just about anybody else.

Leicester survived the whole season with Mahrez, Vardy, Morgan, Huth and Kante pretty much intact IIRC.

Of course they didn't have Europe to deal with, which makes a difference.
Regarding Mo/Mane/Bobby, I'm not really that worried if it's just one of them, and equally so in midfield after switching between 4-3-3, and 4-2-3-1. VvD gone or Alison would be a catastrophe though (see earlier on this page). It's a tough balance that. There's been some clamoring around getting another CB in, but at the same time, that would hurt Gomez long term, unless Klopp rotates 3 #1 CBs (which I would prefer) with Lovren as #1.5, and Matip as #2. Liverpool only has 2 semi fit CBs right now, and you never know when Lovren has a stomach ache next.

 
Was watching a clip of ESPN FC, and they brought up an interesting point about Salah (who was not, and will not be, charged retrospectively):

They brought up the case of Oumar Niasse who was charged in a similar incident last year, and here is what the FA said then:

Short clip of Niasse incident

13. The Commission noted that there was contact between Scott Dann and Mr Niasse but the Commission considered the contact to be normal, fair and expected contact in the situation that arose with Mr Niasse ‘taking on’ Mr Dann. 

14. The Commission unanimously agree that the nature of the contact made by Scott Dan was minimal in nature and would not have thrown Mr Niasse off balance and knock him down in the way that Mr Niasse portrayed it to have done.

15. To the minds of the Commission members the movements of Mr Niasse’s body, in particular the arching of the back and the collapsing of both legs, were simply not consistent with the amount of force exerted upon him by Mr Dann and in exaggerating the effect of the contact made between himself and Mr Dann, Mr Niasse deceived the referee and this led to a penalty being awarded by the referee.

16. As such the FA charge brought against Mr Niasse for simulation is found proven and therefore Mr Niasse will serve an automatic 2 match suspension.

It would seem that the FA are operating under two standards.  One for Liverpool, and one for the castaways of the league....

:coffee:

 

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