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Former acquaintance shot and killed while shackled...apparently. (1 Viewer)

Sabertooth

Sabertooth

Footballguy
This story is kind of blowing my mind right now.  I knew this guy.  He grew up in Gladstone, Michigan.  Very cool.  Very mellow.  Smart.  Had a successful youth counseling business.  He was engaged.  He was close friends with one of my close friends.  Went to parties all the time with him.  Went camping with him.  

Apparently he was arrested for putting explosives in trail cams.  From what I can gather, he put some fireworks inside his trail cam because people kept stealing them.  He rigged them to blow up if somebody put a battery in them. Apparently one of them went off when somebody presumably stole it and tried to put a battery in it.  I believe this was on his private property too.  

So he's in custody.  And he brought the cops back out to locate the remaining trail cams.  They went into the woods. He never came back out.  They shot him.  I presume he was shackled.  Story is he tried to escape.    I wish national media would pick this up.  But he wasn't black, he was brown.  SMH.  

Some details.  

His parents were both Iraqi.  

He was an atheist.

Leaned left.

http://www.kentucky.com/news/local/counties/fayette-county/article95247102.html

 
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Very strange... not sure what the cops would get out of killing a guy in that situation (in custody, cooperating, no priors, well removed from any heated exchange, etc) 

It's kinda funny when stereotypes ring true (Guy rigging trailcams with IED's turns out to be middle eastern) 

 

 
sorry to hear....i don't have much to add...but confused about the whole trail cam, fireworks/explosives thing? 

what is a trail cam, and why was he arming them to explode? I would think that today, rigging things to explode would put some people on edge.

But again...sorry to hear about this situation.  

 
[icon] said:
Very strange... not sure what the cops would get out of killing a guy in that situation (in custody, cooperating, no priors, well removed from any heated exchange, etc) 

It's kinda funny when stereotypes ring true (Guy rigging trailcams with IED's turns out to be middle eastern) 

 
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Yeah except he's a Yooper.  

 
glvsav37 said:
sorry to hear....i don't have much to add...but confused about the whole trail cam, fireworks/explosives thing? 

what is a trail cam, and why was he arming them to explode? I would think that today, rigging things to explode would put some people on edge.

But again...sorry to hear about this situation.  
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A trail cam is a motion activated camera used to photograph game to see when they are coming into bait piles and what not.  Or as a security measure.  Nobody will ever know why he was arming them.  He obviously won't get a trial now.  His family says it's because they kept getting stolen.  Who knows.  He should have faced trial obviously.  

 
Sorry to hear about this, man.  Read through the article and didn't surprise me in the least that they basically put in quotes from neighbors and colleagues that only further the media agenda here.  Would love to see them update the article with quotes from his actual friends.  And the small detail that the cams aren't rigged to explode like an IED (proximity, trip wires, etc.)...if that is indeed the truth.  Sounds like he got sick of losing the trail cams, probably was getting no traction with local PD on it (also something I'd love to see some fact checking done on), and took matters into his own hands.  Really think the actual shooting sounds completely bogus.  

 
[icon] said:
Very strange... not sure what the cops would get out of killing a guy in that situation (in custody, cooperating, no priors, well removed from any heated exchange, etc) 

It's kinda funny when stereotypes ring true (Guy rigging trailcams with IED's turns out to be middle eastern) 

 
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Agreed.  It sounds like they were counting on him to locate all of the cameras.  Now that he is dead he won't be as helpful.

 
Sorry to hear about this.

Too be fair, he was killed by a Fire Investigator - not a trained cop.

Not sure that the distinction matters, but I am guessing the Fire Investigator has even less training than a typical police officer when it comes to these situations.

Never a fan of any official shooting an escapee - absent a real and present life-threatening situation to others, which does not appear to be the case in this situation.  Ironically, the public may be in more danger with the guy dead, and unable to identify the booby-traps.

 
That's my thought too.  If he's in custody you'd have to think he was handcuffed.  I think he just got sick of people stealing his cameras.  I would also be interested to know if they were on his private property.  

Now he was a total smart ### in kind of the way only a really smart guy can be a condescending smart ###.  So I'm sure walking around with a bunch of hillbillies pushing him around was something he'd respond to.  

I sure hope he gets a fair investigation.  

 
Making the presumption that he was shackled is a big leap IMO. 

Not a lot of information about the shooting. 

Nothing in the story made me think he was a decent person.  :shrug:

 
Cjw_55106 said:
Making the presumption that he was shackled is a big leap IMO. 

Not a lot of information about the shooting. 

Nothing in the story made me think he was a decent person.  :shrug:
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You think they just sent him out there without any precautions?  Would that be normal?  

 
Sabertooth said:
This story is kind of blowing my mind right now.  I knew this guy.  He grew up in Gladstone, Michigan.  Very cool.  Very mellow.  Smart.  Had a successful youth counseling business.  He was engaged.  He was close friends with one of my close friends.  Went to parties all the time with him.  Went camping with him.  

Apparently he was arrested for putting explosives in trail cams.  From what I can gather, he put some fireworks inside his trail cam because people kept stealing them.  He rigged them to blow up if somebody put a battery in them. Apparently one of them went off when somebody presumably stole it and tried to put a battery in it.  I believe this was on his private property too.  

So he's in custody.  And he brought the cops back out to locate the remaining trail cams.  They went into the woods. He never came back out.  They shot him.  I presume he was shackled.  Story is he tried to escape.    I wish national media would pick this up.  But he wasn't black, he was brown.  SMH.  

Some details.  

His parents were both Iraqi.  

He was an atheist.

Leaned left.

http://www.kentucky.com/news/local/counties/fayette-county/article95247102.html
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Sounds real mellow. Guy puts explosives in trail cams using gunpowder and coins to basically make battery activated grenades. Did you stop and think about the story here from his friends? He put devices out there that weren't in use. They were solely placed to be taken into somebody's home where they would blow up. Mellow? I would have tons more sympathy if he rigged them to blow up when being stolen and he was actually using them.  These things could have been stolen and then sold on ebay. Somebody with vast youth psychological knowledge knows this is a distinct possibility. 

Cool? Guy was crazy. 

 
IndyHavoc said:
Sorry to hear about this, man.  Read through the article and didn't surprise me in the least that they basically put in quotes from neighbors and colleagues that only further the media agenda here.  Would love to see them update the article with quotes from his actual friends.  And the small detail that the cams aren't rigged to explode like an IED (proximity, trip wires, etc.)...if that is indeed the truth.  Sounds like he got sick of losing the trail cams, probably was getting no traction with local PD on it (also something I'd love to see some fact checking done on), and took matters into his own hands.  Really think the actual shooting sounds completely bogus.  
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Ummmm... the detail of the way he rigged them is actually much more damning. The guy planted unpowered trail cams. As in they weren't being used to record and had an explosive device protecting them. They were planted solely to be stolen and blow people up. 

 
Well, he won't get a trial now will he?  So we don't really know what he did or didn't do.  You seem to have convicted him based off an accusation.  I'm saying what I knew of him, he was a decent guy.  Cutting sense of humor.  Now I haven't spoken with him in a long time.  So who knows, maybe he became a total nut.  But explosives is a vague term.  Family says it was more like fireworks.  

Obviously not too big a blast because somebody hurt a hand when they set off one of these.  

 
Sabertooth said:
Well, he won't get a trial now will he?  So we don't really know what he did or didn't do.  You seem to have convicted him based off an accusation.  I'm saying what I knew of him, he was a decent guy.  Cutting sense of humor.  Now I haven't spoken with him in a long time.  So who knows, maybe he became a total nut.  But explosives is a vague term.  Family says it was more like fireworks.  

Obviously not too big a blast because somebody hurt a hand when they set off one of these.  
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Cmon now. The guy lost multiple fingers. These were hardly fireworks. FWIW, I couldn't care less what the family says. They would naturally be biased and try to downplay everything. Now that I think about it, how does the family know what was in the explosive? 

 
The device was made using a Winchester 9mm shell casing, an unknown explosive material and a detonator, according to court documents. The device was designed to explode when batteries were inserted into the camera.
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Trail cameras are usually affixed to trees and motion-activated to take photos of animals, such as deer. However the two cameras did not have batteries or memory cards necessary to function, records say.
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Read more here: http://www.kentucky.com/news/local/crime/article85851172.html#storylink=cpy
 
Cjw_55106 said:
Cmon now. The guy lost multiple fingers. These were hardly fireworks. FWIW, I couldn't care less what the family says. They would naturally be biased and try to downplay everything. Now that I think about it, how does the family know what was in the explosive? 
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I didn't read he'd lost multiple fingers.  That changes my opinion.  

 
Sorry to hear that you lost your friend Saber. If I were his family and friends I'd certainly be demanding to know what happened out there exactly. Regardless of what he had done previously, if it was an execution, that is really messed up.

At the same time, I think the recent situation in Milwaukee is a reminder that what friends and family hear is often a rather distorted version of events that makes the individual look much more innocent than they are to generate sympathy and anger. Some of the details that others are posting seem to call into question just how innocent this guy was.

 
So he was planting booby trapped explosive cameras that didn't even work onto someone else's property that he had been warned not to come back to?

He shouldn't be dead, but it sounds a bit like an act of terrorism.

If he is really that intelligent, something seems really fishy here.

 
Very sorry to hear about your friend. Awful.

So lesson #25 - never go into the woods alone with cops. Always insist your lawyer comes along.

 
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sorry for your loss, Saber.

not sure why a guy helping the police/fire depts, would do anything that warrants getting shot dead.  hopefully the truth will out.

 
Sabertooth said:
Well, he won't get a trial now will he?  So we don't really know what he did or didn't do.  You seem to have convicted him based off an accusation.  I'm saying what I knew of him, he was a decent guy.  Cutting sense of humor.  Now I haven't spoken with him in a long time.  So who knows, maybe he became a total nut.  But explosives is a vague term.  Family says it was more like fireworks.  

Obviously not too big a blast because somebody hurt a hand when they set off one of these.  
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Not hurt a hand, lost fingers. I know you were a friend but he was setting out bombs for random people to take home. That's not justifiable even if it was due to people stealing them. 

Take your trail cams out of public woods if you don't want them stolen. Don't turn them into bombs. 

 
Some segments of the news account linked by O.P. caught my attention.

The story says the victim here could not make bail as no conditions could be found to assure the safety of the individual and the community. That is fairly rare in most jurisdictions.  I would like to be privy to the bail arguments in this case to potentially learn more.

I noted that his indictment was from a federal grand jury, not the state or county.

I noted that along with his explosive making equipment they found coins.  Sometimes coins are used to create shrapnel.  Shrapnel is not an item used in fireworks.  To be fair coins are also used in commerce and most bomb makers use nails, tacks or broken glass for shrapnel so maybe the coins were just coins.

Sabertooth- I am sorry for your loss.  You seem a real solid guy and if you vouch for a fella that carries great weight with me.

 
Jayrod said:
So he was planting booby trapped explosive cameras that didn't even work onto someone else's property that he had been warned not to come back to?

He shouldn't be dead, but it sounds a bit like an act of terrorism.

If he is really that intelligent, something seems really fishy here.
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That does not sound like terrorism.  The only "terror" it might instill is it might make people think twice about stealing stuff they find on the trails.

It sounds like this guy somehow felt "entitled" to use his trail cameras on someone else's private property, got pissed when they were removed (or "stolen" from hew POV), and did something really stupid to get back at the thieves.  None of it is justified, of course, but that's not how terrorism works.  Not at all.

 
I'm sure there will be a complete and open investigation showing you the police did nothing wrong.

 
VandyMan said:
Roscoe and Enos need body cams.
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I wonder how normal it is for Fire Dept investigators to carry weapons? from the article it says they've had them since the 90s... seems odd to me. (and I understand that fire fighters often come under attack when trying to do their job)

 
and I get that the OPs friend doesn't exactly come across as... not crazy. 

but IMO, the point here isn't the crazy #### he did- it's that he got shot down... while in custody of the police. even if he was actually trying to escape- is he a danger to society at that point? is he going to be crafting trail cam bombs and throwing them at people as he runs for his life?

 
El Floppo said:
I wonder how normal it is for Fire Dept investigators to carry weapons? from the article it says they've had them since the 90s... seems odd to me. (and I understand that fire fighters often come under attack when trying to do their job)
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They do? Often? That can't be true.

 
Weird story however dude was a way wrong.  That's the same as rigging a shotgun to shoot if someone opens a door. He was looking at serious time for sure.  

That being said he doesn't deserve to be executed if that's indeed what happened. Way more to this story. 

 
Cjw_55106 said:
First responders are often put in bad situations. When you dial 911, many times police, fire and ambulance are all sent to the scene. 
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I understand that fire fighters are often first responders. I just don't believe that they are often attacked. I would guess that its very rare for them to be attacked.

 
whoknew said:
They do? Often? That can't be true.
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was just reading an article... sorry, can't remember where (but I think in the FFA)... about this. but IIRC, it happens in urban areas when firefighters are answering a call (usually to an injury). I've talked to friends from these areas- they say firefighters treat them and their things poorly- seem to relish smashing stuff up (according to them) as opposed to being more respectful as they would in nicer neighborhoods.

eta: "often" sounds like what you're taking issue with. more than occasionally? 

 
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GroveDiesel said:
Sorry to hear that you lost your friend Saber. If I were his family and friends I'd certainly be demanding to know what happened out there exactly. Regardless of what he had done previously, if it was an execution, that is really messed up.

At the same time, I think the recent situation in Milwaukee is a reminder that what friends and family hear is often a rather distorted version of events that makes the individual look much more innocent than they are to generate sympathy and anger. Some of the details that others are posting seem to call into question just how innocent this guy was.
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Totally agree.  To be quite honest, you don't really know what goes on in even a family member's home.  Could have been a total nut.  On the other hand, the family deserves to have this investigated.  No matter what he was charged (not convicted, only charged) with, the happenings in the woods with the shooting deserve to be reviewed.  

 
El Floppo said:
was just reading an article... sorry, can't remember where (but I think in the FFA)... about this. but IIRC, it happens in urban areas when firefighters are answering a call (usually to an injury). I've talked to friends from these areas- they say firefighters treat them and their things poorly- seem to relish smashing stuff up (according to them) as opposed to being more respectful as they would in nicer neighborhoods.

eta: "often" sounds like what you're taking issue with. more than occasionally? 
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Yea I don't doubt it happens, I just would be surprised if it is often. Having said that, I admit that I don't really know how often it happens. I did a brief google search and didn't see any studies but I'd be interested in reading them. 

 
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