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Do we have any air conditioner guys? (1 Viewer)

Michael Brown

Michael Brown

Footballguy
Long story long, we live in a split level home that didn't have AC to the downstairs level. Needed to upgrade the system to accommodate all the extra air we'd need downstairs. Had a guy in to run the ducts, bring in the new unit, replace thermostats, whole deal. First night with the new thing, cold air everywhere. Problem was, the fan kept going on and off during the night and waking me up. In the morning I check and I had the fan set to auto. Ok my bad. I reset it to "On" so that the fan runs continuously all night. Next night, same thing happens where it goes on and off.

Long story short, guy tells me that's how they're made now with safety precautions built in so that they don't overheat. I'm calling bs, because why would there be a "Fan on" setting if it's just gonna turn on and off automatically? Basically what he's telling me is that On means Auto, and Auto means Auto. Total crap. So anyway I haven't slept well in about two weeks, and I'm getting no answers on how to fix this. Anybody with experience with this or maybe a suggestion on how to disable this override feature? I'm losing my mind.

ETA: Old unit was less than 10 years old, and the fan stayed on all night. It just wasn't enough AC to handle cooling an entire house. Thus, the "upgrade"

 
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We got a new AC unit (condenser/outside unit only) plus new thermostat in 2010. One new thing that I noticed is that the new thermostat won't always allow the condenser to run on demand -- sometimes there's a few minutes lag from when you set a new temperature and when the AC reacts to the new setting. During this lag phase, the thermostat displays a blinking icon to let us know the condenser needs a few minutes. It's like the thermostat and condenser sort of "work together" to protect the condenser motor.

Based on what I wrote above: I've never exactly tested this (our AC is pretty much always on 'Auto') ... but I suspect that the condenser would cut off at times if we let it run for hours and hours on end. It runs a lot in the south Lousiana heat, yes ... but typically cuts off several times a day for at least 5-10 minutes or so if we're leaving it at one set temperature. Now then, of course -- I'm talking about cutting off when it reaches the set temperature, which is how it's supposed to function. At the same time, though ... from what I can gather, the condenser NEEDS those cut-offs from time to time. Running it a lot at night, when it's relatively cool out (say, 75 degrees on down), might lead to the condenser have to do some automatic cut-offs.

So, anyway ... what you're experiencing could be that your thermostat is "enforcing" a temperature (indirectly, condenser run time) based on some baseline settings your HVAC guy did (or didn't) set when the system was installed. Upon installation of our unit, HVAC guy asked us what baseline temperature we wanted the thermostat to use, and the AC now will reset itself to that temperature a few times a day automatically (including once every night). It's not always ideal -- our baseline is a cool temperature, and we go and adjust the thermostat up a degree or two a few times a day. But it feels awesome during summer mornings when the unit takes advantage of the relatively not-hot hours before sunrise to cool the house more efficiently.

Looks like I've written a lot, and I hope it makes sense. Upshot: have someone take a look at your thermostat, and ensure that it's set the way you want it (timings, baseline temp, etc.). Make sure it's not still on factory defaults or something. Worst case ... a bad thermostat can't be ruled out, but that's a very cheap fix.

 
Doug B said:
We got a new AC unit (condenser/outside unit only) plus new thermostat in 2010. One new thing that I noticed is that the new thermostat won't always allow the condenser to run on demand -- sometimes there's a few minutes lag from when you set a new temperature and when the AC reacts to the new setting. During this lag phase, the thermostat displays a blinking icon to let us know the condenser needs a few minutes. It's like the thermostat and condenser sort of "work together" to protect the condenser motor.

Based on what I wrote above: I've never exactly tested this (our AC is pretty much always on 'Auto') ... but I suspect that the condenser would cut off at times if we let it run for hours and hours on end. It runs a lot in the south Lousiana heat, yes ... but typically cuts off several times a day for at least 5-10 minutes or so if we're leaving it at one set temperature. Now then, of course -- I'm talking about cutting off when it reaches the set temperature, which is how it's supposed to function. At the same time, though ... from what I can gather, the condenser NEEDS those cut-offs from time to time. Running it a lot at night, when it's relatively cool out (say, 75 degrees on down), might lead to the condenser have to do some automatic cut-offs.

So, anyway ... what you're experiencing could be that your thermostat is "enforcing" a temperature (indirectly, condenser run time) based on some baseline settings your HVAC guy did (or didn't) set when the system was installed. Upon installation of our unit, HVAC guy asked us what baseline temperature we wanted the thermostat to use, and the AC now will reset itself to that temperature a few times a day automatically (including once every night). It's not always ideal -- our baseline is a cool temperature, and we go and adjust the thermostat up a degree or two a few times a day. But it feels awesome during summer mornings when the unit takes advantage of the relatively not-hot hours before sunrise to cool the house more efficiently.

Looks like I've written a lot, and I hope it makes sense. Upshot: have someone take a look at your thermostat, and ensure that it's set the way you want it (timings, baseline temp, etc.). Make sure it's not still on factory defaults or something. Worst case ... a bad thermostat can't be ruled out, but that's a very cheap fix.
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Thanks Doug. I considered a faulty thermostat, for the reason that I had it on a schedule to get a few degrees cooler just before bed but instead the unit started making it cooler a few hours before bed. The clock or timing was all off, even though I did all the settings properly. I don't even care so much about the temperature, I just don't understand why the fan would go on and off when I have it set to on. Why even bother with having an auto setting, if the fan is going to automatically go on and off anyway? I miss the old unit already...

 
:oldunsure:

The last Air Conditioner guy we had here was curious about how to make love to a woman with a mustache bigger than Burt Reynolds :oldunsure:

 
If you're awake and it's convenient ... next time you have the thermostat set to "On" and the condenser still cuts off, go have a look at the thermostat reading. See if there any kind of indication that the condenser is "resting". On mine, the "condenser is resting" icon is a pair of blinking snowflakes. When the snowflakes stop blinking and go solid, the condenser cuts back on.

Thinking more on this ... the "Auto" setting, really, is just having your unit aim to maintain a certain temperature. So, working properly, it will shut off when the set temperature is reached. Then cut back on when the house warms up past the set temperature -- and so on. What the "On" setting must do, then, is run until it can't run no more based on some internal condenser-motor-saving control.

 
You should be able to run the fan separate from the condenser.  The condenser may need to cycle but no reason the fan/blower can't be on.

 
Ron Swanson said:
You should be able to run the fan separate from the condenser.  The condenser may need to cycle but no reason the fan/blower can't be on.
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Good point ... this was worth pointing out.

Michael Brown: does your thermostat have controls analogous to this one (ignore four buttons at left)? If so: at night, when it's cutting on/off too much ... how do you have it set?

   a ) the Fan set to "On" and the System set to "Cool"
   b ) the Fan set to "On" and the System set to "Off"

Also: which noise bugs you at night? The outside unit (condenser) kicking on? The air handler (fan) kicking on? Or both?

Is the outside unit close to your bedroom window, to where it's easy to hear it kick on and off?

 
Doug B said:
Good point ... this was worth pointing out.

Michael Brown: does your thermostat have controls analogous to this one (ignore four buttons at left)? If so: at night, when it's cutting on/off too much ... how do you have it set?

   a ) the Fan set to "On" and the System set to "Cool"
   b ) the Fan set to "On" and the System set to "Off"

Also: which noise bugs you at night? The outside unit (condenser) kicking on? The air handler (fan) kicking on? Or both?

Is the outside unit close to your bedroom window, to where it's easy to hear it kick on and off?
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At night, we have it set to On and the system set to Cool. During the day, we have it set to Auto and the system set to Cool. The heat runs on a totally separate unit/thermostat.

The noise I'm hearing all night is I presume the fan kicking on and off. The outside unit is one floor down and towards the front of the house, so I'm not hearing that. But the in-house unit is in the crawlspace right over the bedroom (same place as the old in-house unit though, and we slept soundly all night with that one).

This is our current thermostat

 
Ron Swanson said:
You should be able to run the fan separate from the condenser.  The condenser may need to cycle but no reason the fan/blower can't be on.
Click to expand...
Yeah this is what's confusing me. We did put in a multi-zone setup and my HVAC guy is telling me that this is why it's cycling on and off all night. But I still don't see what one has to do with the other. When I stay in hotels, I keep the AC and fan on all night and it never kicks on and off and I'm SURE those are a lot more zones than my dumb little home unit

 
It's probable that you can hot-wire the fan to be always on if you want.  The blower control is 24 VDC to a transformer (dry contact relay for switching 120 VAC).  Find out which wires are for the blower control and get a cheapo 24 VDC power supply (aka wall wart) and and force the blower to run continuously.

ETA: You should probably do this at the blower itself and not at the thermostat.  Basically, rig up a manual switch for your blower control. 

 
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Michael Brown, found something that might be worth reading.
 

Stoj asks: What could be causing an A/C blower motor to turn off randomly?

The Blower motor on my AC unit turns off at random times while the outside unit continues to run which is causing the coil to freeze up. The blower won't come on for 30-45 minutes after the AC has been turned off, but after that it seems to turn back on fine. I have been trying to track the problem down for the last couple months, but it literally only happens every 2 or 3 weeks.

Last night it stopped again and I tried to just turn the fan (from the thermostat) on without luck. I took a look at the blower and it seemed to turn just fine. I put my hand on the back of the fan motor and it wasn't hot to the touch.

About 45 minutes after it turned off the blower came back and it was working normally. What could be causing this problem?
Click to expand...


Stoj replied: I ended up calling a buddy of mine who is an HVAC tech and he pointed me in the right direction to check the fan wire on the back of the thermostat. I checked the wire and it was just hanging in the terminal. I'm pretty sure that was the cause of the problem. It makes sense because there wasn't anything wrong with the blower motor itself.

The fan wire on the thermostat was in fact the problem. I fixed the connection and it has worked fine for the last 3 years.
Click to expand...


Dave replied:  I have a Ruud Rheem heat pump, I had this same issue. The unit was installed in 2006.

After going through the typical steps of checking air filters and electrical components on the unit, I found the wiring from the thermostat for the blower control to the control board was rusted in the wire nut. I cut the wires and stripped them back and reconnected the wires and the AC unit is running with out any trouble now.
Click to expand...

 
I am not a tech but have some experience with HVAC systems in my rentals. 

So there is one air handler, one condensing unit, and how many zones?

In my experience, problems in new installs are generally with the wiring.  If that is all copacetic, the fact that you are not 'hearing' the fan run could be due to an ECM motor.  They are in the higher seer models and have built in controls to modulate the speed of the air handler fan to maximize energy efficiency.  The fan may be running, but just at a lower speed where u do not hear it.

A sure fire way to determine whether or not there is truly an issue is to look for an error code bulb or readout.  If the fan is set to 'ON', and it cuts off due to an error, you will be able to see a code.  If it is off due to normal function, or running at a lower speed, you will not have a code.

Your tech should have given you an owners manual.  You will be able to look up any codes there.

 
I agree with Ron Swanson and NFL-ons. 

As you surmised in the OP, there is no reason you shouldn't be able to have the fan ON all the time. IMO either it's too quiet or it's wired wrong. I'm not an HVAC guy but I know everything; just ask me. 

 
NFL-ons said:
I am not a tech but have some experience with HVAC systems in my rentals. 

So there is one air handler, one condensing unit, and how many zones?

In my experience, problems in new installs are generally with the wiring.  If that is all copacetic, the fact that you are not 'hearing' the fan run could be due to an ECM motor.  They are in the higher seer models and have built in controls to modulate the speed of the air handler fan to maximize energy efficiency.  The fan may be running, but just at a lower speed where u do not hear it.

A sure fire way to determine whether or not there is truly an issue is to look for an error code bulb or readout.  If the fan is set to 'ON', and it cuts off due to an error, you will be able to see a code.  If it is off due to normal function, or running at a lower speed, you will not have a code.

Your tech should have given you an owners manual.  You will be able to look up any codes there.
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This is a real possibility. The motor will ramp back up as your thermostat calls for cooling. And once the thermostat is satisfied, that motor will ramp back down to a barely noticeable sound. 

 
why spend the money on electricity to run the fan perpetually?  that is what auto is for.  kinda defeats the porpoise.

 
Chemical X said:
why spend the money on electricity to run the fan perpetually?  that is what auto is for.  kinda defeats the porpoise.
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Cause the change in sound as it turns on and off during the night keeps waking me up.

Anyway, thanks everybody I got my guy coming back this week and I'll definitely run some of these suggestions by him. You guys rock

 
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Michael Brown said:
Cause the change in sound as it turns on and off during the night keeps waking me up.

Anyway, thanks everybody I got my guy coming back this week and I'll definitely run some of these suggestions by him. You guys rock
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why not a window unit or the European Mitsubishi unit style?

running the fan is crazy

 
Put a desk/table fan near your bed for white-noise.  You won't notice the AC fan kicking on/off.

 
Chemical X said:
why not a window unit or the European Mitsubishi unit style?

running the fan is crazy
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Did it for years in my old apt and for the four years we lived here, didn't notice that my energy bill was all that higher in the summer than in the winter. :shrug: Besides, we already had the central AC setup in the house when we moved in and I don't like the appearance of having a bunch of window units sticking out all over the place

 
Michael Brown said:
Did it for years in my old apt and for the four years we lived here, didn't notice that my energy bill was all that higher in the summer than in the winter. :shrug: Besides, we already had the central AC setup in the house when we moved in and I don't like the appearance of having a bunch of window units sticking out all over the place
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To add, it's just the fan that I want constantly running not the whole unit. I figure a fan running for 8 hours per night is equivalent energy usage to, well, a fan running for 8 hours per night. Doesn't seem all that crazy to me, but if you look at my topic history lately it's all home-related expenses that I know nothing about. So it's quite possible I'm just an idiot.

 
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