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College Admissions Questions (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter NewlyRetired
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chet
Footballguy
johnnycakes
Footballguy
bigbottom
Footballguy
Thanks for the additional information and I can only imagine how excited you must be for your son! My son REALLY liked the campus vibe, as well as the students he met. According to my son, the campus visit moved Clemson to one of his top choices. They didn’t see any of the residence halls on the tour though, so the insight as to the honors dorms is very welcome info. Thanks!
bigbottom
Footballguy
We planned to visit the campus a week from Saturday, but learned tonight that they don’t do tours on Saturdays during the summer. So we may end up doing a self-guided tour. Good point about the climate as well. My son’s preference is a school where it doesn’t snow, but that’s not a dealbreaker. And Purdue’s engineering program is supposed to be crazy good.
How is the Alabama experience so far?
The honors dorm (making a small assumption) are called core campus (building c and d for honors) and there’s actually some really good detail on their web site and a good video walk through. They didn’t do a room tour during orientation for the breakout because Dabo’s football camp was staying there (some HSers got scholarship offers during that camp). We were able to do a room tour during our accepted students visit so it didn’t matter for us. Orientation was fun but the main point was around registering for classes and prepping for move in, which amazingly is two months away.
I definitely couldn’t recommend it more. I have heard nothing but great things from my sister/brother in law (have a house close), wife (works for a huge company that recruits there, she’s been a few times), wife’s colleagues who worked there, a student a colleague met and we talked to for a while, alumni and parents who attended.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
How much positive impact did student loans have on their credit score? I know those loans count towards building credit, but do not know how much impact it actually has. I've been asked about it more than once and hate not having answers.
The_Man
Footballguy
Made it through the pre-screen then had a Skype interview w the search firm yesterday that didn’t go all that great. They apparently have a ton of applicants-my experience is a pretty good but not perfect fit. And I have to be honest that yesterday’s conversation left me wondering if I really want to deal with a lot of what this gig entails as my current job is pretty chill. I guess I’m left hoping I get through to the in-person interview stage but won’t be too bummed if I don’t. Should hear in a couple weeks and am just going to forget about it until then.
Fishboy
Footballguy
So far, so good. Orientation is in a couple of weeks.
Made it through the roommate search and room assignment thing. Craziness. It's basically like speed dating, these kids post/reply on social media and go off stalking on social media to find a potential roommate. The 3 others that she will be sharing a suite with all seem good. Fingers crossed that they all get along when they finally all move in together.
The whole sorority thing. Wow - it's hard core at Alabama vs Louisville where my other daughter attends and is in a sorority. 17 letters of recommendation required before you can even rush?!? I'll be honest, I couldn't pull that off myself with all my connections. End of day, my daughter still plans on rushing but is getting more and more turned off with the whole process. But her other 3 roommates are all rushing, so she "has" to.
bigbottom
Footballguy
Tick
Footballguy
I just ran into the Alabama recruiter for Michigan at the ice cream stand and chatted a little (I was wearing my Alabama Dad hat). He said there are 90 freshmen going from Michigan to Alabama. Since almost all are going for the automatic scholarships, they're a batch of all-stars. He said last year's Michigan class averaged a 3.9 and 31 ACT.
My daughter's not rushing, which is a relief.
My daughter's not rushing, which is a relief.
Fear The Turtle
Footballguy
In light of today's "student loan debt forgiveness" political climate, is the smart move to simply max out student loans and hope for the near inevitable forgiveness of them?
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
I don't think 'smart' is the right word, but if you have the means to pay it in a lump sum once the deferral period is over then the accumulating interest in the meantime may justify the risk. You'd have to crunch the numbers and make a decision given that info though. And I think the most likely outcome doesn't involve forgiveness of the entire debt for all. There will be a number of qualifiers and the if-then tree to proactively identify them has way too many branches for me to put any more thought into them.
bigbottom
Footballguy
Not yet. Leaning mechanical, but they may be a default. He is headed to a two-week "Intro to Engineering" camp next week, so hopefully he will have a better idea after that. As an aside, I think it's crazy that some schools expect 17-year-old high school students to know precisely what engineering discipline they want to pursue, as if they have a clue of what such a career would entail.
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
Mechanical is a good starting point. You could also look for departments that at least start people off with general engineering. I know Virginia Tech does this.
bigbottom
Footballguy
Thanks. Yes, there are a number of schools he's looked at where you don't specialize until after your first year. I think that's a much better approach.
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El Floppo
Footballguy
fingerscrossed for the man- best of luck!
just turned 12yo floppinho talking to friends last week for some reason about colleges (started off talking about HS I think)... this is a music school, so some of them may be either professional musicians or in the industry (it goes through HS, and is touted as a "conservatory prep" school... so I listened in)
where do you think you'll go?
Floppinho- probably MIT or Columbia
yeah... *ok*
just turned 12yo floppinho talking to friends last week for some reason about colleges (started off talking about HS I think)... this is a music school, so some of them may be either professional musicians or in the industry (it goes through HS, and is touted as a "conservatory prep" school... so I listened in)
where do you think you'll go?
Floppinho- probably MIT or Columbia
yeah... *ok*
bigbottom
Footballguy
For those who are interested, we finished up visits at Northwestern, Purdue and Notre Dame (where my son is now attending a two week intro to engineering program).
NWestern: Amazing campus, stunningly beautiful (right on the lake). Admissions presentation was absolutely top notch as was the student led campus tour. And then we attended the Engineering presentation. Easily the least impressive presentation of any school we attended, and their facilities felt like an old run down high school. Was a real bummer actually
Purdue: We did a self guided tour of the campus and the multiple engineering buildings. Very impressive. Didn’t realize how tied Purdue is to the space program.
Notre Dame: The Dream Campus. No joke. Absolutely jaw-dropping. Met and spoke with several current engineering students who seemed to really enjoy the program. My kid will be there in sessions with ND profs the next two weeks, so he’ll know one way or another by the end of it.
NW probably off the list, which is just as well as getting in RD would be pretty impossible. Purdue and ND still in the running for now.
NWestern: Amazing campus, stunningly beautiful (right on the lake). Admissions presentation was absolutely top notch as was the student led campus tour. And then we attended the Engineering presentation. Easily the least impressive presentation of any school we attended, and their facilities felt like an old run down high school. Was a real bummer actually
Purdue: We did a self guided tour of the campus and the multiple engineering buildings. Very impressive. Didn’t realize how tied Purdue is to the space program.
Notre Dame: The Dream Campus. No joke. Absolutely jaw-dropping. Met and spoke with several current engineering students who seemed to really enjoy the program. My kid will be there in sessions with ND profs the next two weeks, so he’ll know one way or another by the end of it.
NW probably off the list, which is just as well as getting in RD would be pretty impossible. Purdue and ND still in the running for now.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
I could tell you that 75% or more of my incoming freshman class of engineers knew exactly what engineering discipline they wanted to pursue. I knew I wanted to be a MechE, but then added on Mat Sci as a double major later on.
bigbottom
Footballguy
Thank you for the feedback. To your point, at pretty much every engineering presentation we’ve been to where the presenter polls the high school students on which engineering discipline they want to pursue in college, I’d say that 95% of the kids quickly identify that speciality. I’m sure that a good number of them are highly knowledgeable and have made a very educated and well-informed decision. But I would guess that for a not insignificant number of them, they only have a general sense of what a career would truly be like in a particular discipline. They just know they are good at math and science and engineering makes sense as a profession. My son is certainly in that bucket for the most part and I know he’s far from alone. He’s never taken a real engineering class before and his parents aren’t engineers. I think it’s unrealistic to expect him to know at 16-17 (his birthday was three days ago) whether he wants to be a petroleum engineer or a chemical engineer or a materials engineer. Hopefully his two week engineering camp will help him discover more particular areas of interest, but lots of families can’t afford programs like that for their high schoolers. There are a number of colleges that purposely don’t have kids specialize until after their first year for this very reason. And the presenter at USC was surprisingly aggressive when he told the kids in the room who said what speciality they wanted to pursue that most of them probably had no idea of what a career in that specialty would actually be like (for what it’s worth, my son was only one of two kids who said “undecided”).
But I don’t know. I’m not an engineer. So I can’t say whether or not I should be worried that my son is still open on what engineering discipline he wants to pursue. We’ll revisit the issue in two weeks when he’s had the opportunity to be exposed to a bunch of different disciplines. But if he’s still open/undecided when he applies, I think that’s going to end up factoring into where he applies. For example, UT requires you to choose the specific engineering discipline when you apply and it’s notoriously difficult to switch if you end up making the wrong decision or changing your mind. That is a concern for us.
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Galileo
Footballguy
Relax. Everything will work out fine in the end. Even with Z's number, that means 25% of incoming freshmen still don't know. That is a significant number. You are doing the right things by getting him touring schools, participating in the camp, and thinking about his options in earnest. He still has time to figure things out.
bigbottom
Footballguy
Pulling this back up from Page 1. Naviance is a data junky's crack pipe. You can get lost in the scattergrams. If you are trying to stratify your college search between reach schools, target schools, and safety schools, there is likely no better tool than Naviance.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
I wouldn't be concerned at all with that. Exploring is part of the game in college, both academically as well as personally. I wasn't trying to alarm you, but I was just relating my experience going through school that engineers (generally) had a more concrete vision of their future professional life than most other majors. It's diving into a specialty earlier than most other professions as the academic and lab training is needed for success.
Personally, I think that law and medicine should also be structured similarly. Sure there are lots of kids that don't know exactly what profession to pursue, but it reducing the number of years of broad education for more specialization early would serve the country better.
Why do lawyers need to read more classics and study pre-columbian american history compared to engineers? Why not begin courses on legal analysis during undergraduate studies?
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General Malaise
Footballguy
My son's AP test results come in Friday. Nervous for him. Proud of him regardless. He's way smarter than I ever was or will be. Just hope I can help him navigate the waters of getting into the right school.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
I think that the skills learned in reading, interpreting and writing about text and events are much more applicable to lawyers than engineers.
which is not to say that i disagree that it is ultimately often best for people to have a varied background.
bigbottom
Footballguy
Good luck to him! Not sure which AP exam(s) he took as a sophomore, but I wouldn’t stress to much about it.
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Galileo
Footballguy
In general, AP scores are up this year from past scores across the board. This, of course, doesn't give you any insight into your son specifically, but just an observation. Several disciplines have had their highest scores or largest increases from previous year type stuff.
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General Malaise
Footballguy
He took history and one other that I can't recall because I'm a terrible dad.
I did pay for them, however. Ain't cheap.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
You'd be surprised. I spend a lot of time reading and writing about results and what they mean.
bigbottom
Footballguy
Typo - I “wouldn’t” stress about them. For what it’s worth, my kid took AP World History as a freshman and AP US History as a sophomore. Got 2s on both of them. Disappointing, but he only had so much free time in his schedule and didn’t devote sufficient time to study for either of those tests. Sometimes you have to pick your battles.He took history and one other that I can't recall because I'm a terrible dad.
I did pay for them, however. Ain't cheap.
General Malaise
Footballguy
Really proud of the kid just for getting to this point. I never even sniffed an AP anything.
johnnycakes
Footballguy
How do BU and Northeastern stand on your kid’s list? I know they have no big time football programs but I believe they each have big time hockey programs.bigbottom said:
The_Man
Footballguy
It is the best available source to give you a realistic assessment of how your kid stacks up to his peers when it comes to admission. But don't take Naviance as the absolute gospel. You can never tell when someone is a legacy, or athletic recruit, or is from an under-represented ethnic background. All of that being said, it is an incredibly helpful tool.
From my son's school, it was fun (and easy) to deduce which X on the scattergram represented various recruited athletes. A kid who got into Yale had a 3.3 GPA, 1300 SAT - he went on to be a four-year starter there in football, which left me thinking those must be the very bottom academic credentials for Ivy League football and basketball recruits (with recruits in other sports probably having to score higher).
bigbottom
Footballguy
Both are still on the list (he visited both and liked both). I think he'll end up choosing one of the two to apply to, and my best guess is that it will end up being Northeastern because of the Co-Op programs.
It is true; at Ivies there is an average credential, I don't know what it is or who requires it, but the other sports pick up the slack.
I am an MIT alum and in their Educational Council which means I interview local (Phoenix for me) students for admission. A few comments about admission to elite universities:
- Everyone who applies is smart, has good grades, good test scores, etc. That's the ante into the game and that isn't enough. They look through 15K applications and pick 1K. Your kid needs to differentiate him/herself. Which leads me to:
- They look for "diversity" through different individual pursuits of excellence. What this means is they are not looking for 3 kids each of which are in the robotics club, dance, and play softball. They are looking for one kid who is president of the robotics club and created an outreach program to introduce robotics to lower-income kids, a dancer who worked odd jobs to pay for ballet and also got into Julliard, and the captain of the softball team who worked with the school district to get new equipment. Basically the question the school is asking is: How will your child enhance the community here, and do they have the drive to (1) succeed here, and (2) change the world.
- I can't speak for other universities but if your kid gets into MIT, don't let finances scare you. They want your kid and have the endowments to make it happen. I'm confident this is true at other schools but I can't say from direct experience. I came from a lower middle class, blue collar background and was amazed at the financial aid package I got.
I'm happy to answer questions.
bigbottom
Footballguy
Whoa very cool of you to give us insight into MIT. My son is interested in pursuing an engineering degree so your thoughts are very much appreciated. That being said, my son doesn't plan to apply to MIT because (1) it's absolutely crazy competitive to get in and he probably has something along he lines of a 0.5% chance; and (2) I think his self-confidence would be absolutely destroyed by the intellects there who would be his fellow students.
For what it's worth, my dad got his masters in aeronautical engineering from MIT, but that was forever ago, and he has virtually no relationship with my son, so he isn't much of a resource.
Fishboy
Footballguy
wait until you see that first year college bill and you'll think AP was the best bargain ever offered. I'm glad both my daughters took as many AP classes and thankfully got a high enough score to get the college credit.He took history and one other that I can't recall because I'm a terrible dad.
I did pay for them, however. Ain't cheap.
What it really accomplished is getting the college credit so they can take a lighter class load; 15-17 credits. Still will take them 4 years, but they don't have to kill themselves and can get into their major's coursework much sooner.
bigbottom
Footballguy
Given that it's limited to our school, I think we can spot the few outliers as you point out. I think looking at the data in the aggregate is particularly useful. The scattergrams (scattergraphs?) are hugely helpful in this regard. If I see lots of acceptances around my kids data point on the graph, you can feel a lot better about your chances. On the other hand, we've seen almost across the board rejections around my kid's data point for some schools, which makes it easy to conclude that it isn't worth the effort to apply. Using the data to inform these decisions is extremely helpful when determining how to allocate your resources. For example, given my kids scores, I would have thought it would be worth a shot to apply to Duke. But looking at the admissions data for our high school, it just doesn't make sense.
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Sorry about the dad thing.
You bring up some interesting points.
- It is true in some ways that it is competitive. They admit about 1K kids and every one was at or very near the top of their class. Now, only one of them is at the top, and the other 999 need to deal with it. Many aren't prepared emotionally, some commit suicide as a result. That's one of the things I look for in my interviews. As a side note, I don't ask for grades/scores/etc., the school looks at that stuff. That being said, the environment is not so much competing against each other, but banding together to compete against the school. There is a strong greek system which I was part of, and even the dorms have their own bonding/personalities.
- I didn't read the thread to see where your kid is applying but... IMO for a bachelor's degree in engineering there are a handful of schools that warrant going out of state. Otherwise, my advice is to send him to one of your in-state schools. My son went to Arizona State, graduated last year as an EE, and got a great job with great pay with a major tech company. And because of his SATs he paid almost no tuition so has no debt. I'm confident most states are similar. That being said, he interviewed 3 times for 3 different jobs at this company; rejected, rejected, accepted. He flew to Texas 3 times. An MIT grad may have gotten the first one based on school name, so it depends on your kid's personality and if he has the gumption to do what it takes to get a job (or grad school acceptance).
- MIT has a single digit acceptance rate, but that is based on global applications. Their international acceptance is very low; in the US it is in the teens.
MindCrime
Footballguy
My son’s results hit Friday as well. AP Human Geography as a Freshman. I'm not sure what to expect, but I’m like you, proud of my kid who is a hell of a lot smarter than me!
bigbottom
Footballguy
Thanks again, Jerry. For our state schools (we're in Texas), the big players for engineering are UT and A&M. Getting into UT Engineering is ridiculously difficult. There are countless stories of kids at the top of their class with 1560s on their SATs that don't get into the engineering program at their flagship state institution. If he gets in, great, but we're not banking on it. He should get into A&M engineering no problem. But he doesn't really feel like it's a fit for him. And it's also something like the second largest school in the nation, which we think is less than optimal for him.
As for which schools that warrant going out of state, which are those? Cal Tech, MIT and Stanford? Yeah, he's not getting into any of those. For reasons that many here know, we saved for two college educations but will only need to pay for one. So for us, the ROI calculus is a bit skewed.
Edit: If I were to guess today where he will end up applying, I think it will be something along the lines of UT, A&M, Georgia Tech, USC (Calif.), Notre Dame, Purdue, Northeastern, Clemson.
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Funny, those are the 3 I was thinking of. Scanning thru the thread I saw schools like Michigan (my wife's alma mater), Purdue, Georgia Tech... great schools, but IMO you start to reach a point of diminishing returns. Cal Berkeley as well but the U Cal schools are also crazy hard to get into. Those schools love out of state applicants because they pay several hundred K in tuition over the years. For science you might add Harvard and Princeton; the Ivies come with a very good alumni network.
My manager went to A&M. His father told him "you can go wherever you want, I'll pay for A&M."
It's a well-respected school. You absolutely need to make sure he applies to a few "safe" schools, I tell my applicants the same. Even if it doesn't feel like a good fit, life sometimes tosses lemons at you, he needs to have a way to move forward. UT Austin is great, I don't know much about the satellites but they may be an option.
Fishboy
Footballguy
Just a heads up for those HS seniors who took the AP tests this spring. My daughter logged into her Alabama account today and the AP test scores must get released to the schools before the kids. She is starting off with 38 credits transferred in as a new freshman.
Meeting with the counselor during her orientation weekend to see if there is a way for her to do the 5 year accelerated Masters program in 4 years given all the credits transferred in.
Fingers crossed.
Meeting with the counselor during her orientation weekend to see if there is a way for her to do the 5 year accelerated Masters program in 4 years given all the credits transferred in.
Fingers crossed.
SteelCurtain
Footballguy
Agree on Naviance.
The Ivies have an academic index that the athletic teams must meet. For every “dumb jock” (which is relative at Ivy’s because they all need to be smart.....just not brilliant) who is admitted, there are super strong athletes to offset.
Galileo
Footballguy
Yeah, I have heard of several cases over the years of students seeing their results through the school they had scores sent to. Nice for seniors, but those of us with younger kids need to wait it out. I have a freshman who took AP World History and a sophomore who took AP US History and AP Biology. Those little ####s better get 5's...lol...just kidding. I am pretty confident they will do well. The one going to be a junior is signed up for 5 AP classes/tests next year.
The_Man
Footballguy
Yeah, there was a very top student from my kid's school who was a Princeton lacrosse recruit. They actually told him to drop a couple of really hard classes his senior year because he was already admitted and they wanted him to finish with a 4.0 so that his GPA could help balance out the much lower GPA of another lacrosse recruit. The school wasn't too happy about it, but he did it.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
I'm going to need to look into this as well, as I'm in the same situation as GM where I make way more than the ex, but we're cool working together on anything involving the kid.
