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Alt-Right - hate group fascists or serious political movement (1 Viewer)

NPR ran an article about them and I heard their spokeman on NPR this morning.

http://www.npr.org/2016/08/26/491452721/the-history-of-the-alt-right


What You Need To Know About The Alt-Right Movement






The presidential candidates this week accused one another of racism and bigotry, with Hillary Clinton arguing that Donald Trump's rhetoric and policies are an invitation to the "alt-right" movement.

"This is not Conservatism as we have known it," the Democratic nominee said on Thursday during a speech in Reno, Nev. "This is not Republicanism as we have known it. These are racist ideas. These are race-baiting ideas. Anti-Muslim, anti-Immigrant, anti-women ideas –– all key tenets making up an emerging racist ideology known as the 'Alt-Right.'"

So what, exactly, is the "alt-right"?

The views of the alt-right are widely seen as anti-Semitic and white supremacist.

It is mostly an online movement that uses websites, chat boards, social media and memes to spread its message. (Remember the Star of David image that Trump received criticism for retweeting? That reportedly first appeared on an alt-right message board.)

Most of its members are young white men who see themselves first and foremost as champions of their own demographic. However, apart from their allegiance to their "tribe," as they call it, their greatest points of unity lie in what they are against: multiculturalism, immigration, feminism and, above all, political correctness.

"They see political correctness really as the greatest threat to their liberty," Nicole Hemmer, University of Virginia professor and author of a forthcoming bookMessengers of the Right, explained on Morning Edition.

"So, they believe saying racist or anti-Semitic things—it's is not an act of hate, but an act of freedom," she said.

For that reason, as well as for fun and notoriety, alt-righters like to troll, prank and provoke.

One of their favorite slams is to label someone a "cukservative," loosely translated by the Daily Caller as a cuckolded conservative, or "race traitor" who has surrendered his masculinity.

How does the alt-right movement differ from what we think of as traditional conservatism?

The movement's origins are traced to many conservatives' opposition to the policies of President George W. Bush, especially the U.S. invasion of Iraq (alt-righters are strictly isolationist).

They are also suspicious of free-markets, a key tenet of conservatism, as they believe that business interests can often be in conflict with what they view as higher ideals – those of cultural preservation and homogeneity.

Two self-proclaimed leaders of the alt-right movement — Breitbart's Allum Bokhari and Milo Yiannopoulos – recently outlined a manifesto of sorts for what group believes and who their allies are and are not. It claimed that "beltway conservatives" hate alt-right adherents even more "than Democrats or loopy progressives."

They see themselves, rather, as "natural conservatives," with an "instinctive wariness of the foreign and the unfamiliar," Bokhari and Yiannopoulos wrote.

What is Trump's connection to the alt-right?

Last week, the GOP presidential nominee announced that Stephen Bannon, chairman of Breitbart News Network, which Bannon has called "the platform for the alt-right," would be his campaign's new chief executive.

"By putting Brietbart front and center in his campaign," said Hemmer, "Trump has elevated the alt-right."

But Hemmer suspects that Trump – and all but a small fraction of his supporters – do not pledge allegiance to the alt-right movement.

Yet, the movement has embraced Trump.

"I think they are attracted to Trump [and] see him as a vessel for getting their ideas out there," Hemmer said.

And Clinton is likely to continue drawing a link between Trump and the alt-right in the minds of voters.

"She's reminding those undecided voters that whatever the new moderate face of Donald Trump might be, there are the things he has said and here are the implications of the things he said and the people who he's brought into his campaign," said Hemmer.

How do alt-right leaders feel about Clinton's statements?

They seem to be loving the attention. As Michelle Goldberg wrote in Slate:


The white nationalist Richard Spencer was on vacation in Japan when he learned that Hillary Clinton was planning to give a speech about Donald Trump's ties to the so-called alt right, and he was thrilled. "It's hugely significant," Spencer told me by Skype from Kyoto. "When a presidential candidate—and indeed the presidential candidate who is leading in most polls—talks about your movement directly, I think you can safely say that you've made it."

 
So what, exactly, is the "alt-right"?

The views of the alt-right are widely seen as anti-Semitic and white supremacist.

It is mostly an online movement that uses websites, chat boards, social media and memes to spread its message.
I think what gets me about this that they have a name now, but it was coined maybe just mid to late last year by a commentator.

What did we call them before? I don't really like the term as it's an outwardly neutral term which gives some sort of intellectual weight to what is a very old ideology. Stormfront is a well known site but there are a couple more which are much more prominent, much more neutral in appearance.

 
How do alt-right leaders feel about Clinton's statements?

They seem to be loving the attention.

The white nationalist Richard Spencer was on vacation in Japan when he learned that Hillary Clinton was planning to give a speech about Donald Trump's ties to the so-called alt right, and he was thrilled. "It's hugely significant," Spencer told me by Skype from Kyoto. "When a presidential candidate—and indeed the presidential candidate who is leading in most polls—talks about your movement directly, I think you can safely say that you've made it."
I still cannot make up my mind about this. Yes what Hillary said was right. However I also think there is something to do this idea 'they've arrived' with Hillary's speech.

 
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I think what gets me about this that they have a name now, but it was coined maybe just mid to late last year by a commentator.

What did we call them before? I don't really like the term as it's an outwardly neutral term which gives some sort of intellectual weight to what is a very old ideology. Stormfront is a well known site but there are a couple more which are much more prominent, much more neutral in appearance.
Wasn't Stormfront  just skin heads?  The Alt-right to me seems to be a little more sophisticated, example they never call for violence.  Their entire ideology seems to be focused on the idea that races should be separate, and that multiculturalism, immigration, feminism and, above all, political correctness is harmful to their race (I am not agreeing I am just stating this is how they think).  

 
Here's the thing: there are a group of conservatives out there who are very nativist, very anti our trade agreements, pro-police, anti illegal immigrant, anti-Obama, and extremely pissed off at the Republican establishment. These people form a big chunk of the Trump supporters IMO, yet they are neither white supremacist nor anti-Semitic (in fact they tend to be big supporters of Israel). These guys are being grouped together with the extremist racist types and the whole thing is being called alt/right. I don't think that's fair or accurate. 

 
Here's the thing: there are a group of conservatives out there who are very nativist, very anti our trade agreements, pro-police, anti illegal immigrant, anti-Obama, and extremely pissed off at the Republican establishment. These people form a big chunk of the Trump supporters IMO, yet they are neither white supremacist nor anti-Semitic (in fact they tend to be big supporters of Israel). These guys are being grouped together with the extremist racist types and the whole thing is being called alt/right. I don't think that's fair or accurate. 
I would not say they are pro-police and I would not even call them white supremacist, maybe white separatists might be a better term, they are not calling on violence. 

 
Here's the thing: there are a group of conservatives out there who are very nativist, very anti our trade agreements, pro-police, anti illegal immigrant, anti-Obama, and extremely pissed off at the Republican establishment. These people form a big chunk of the Trump supporters IMO, yet they are neither white supremacist nor anti-Semitic (in fact they tend to be big supporters of Israel). These guys are being grouped together with the extremist racist types and the whole thing is being called alt/right. I don't think that's fair or accurate. 
As someone who identifies with many positions of the Alt-Right without reservations, I appreciate your honestly.

All political groups have extremists who are motivated primarily by hate or bigotry.  That includes modern day Progressives.  Should those extremists define the entire movement or ideology?  Society is very selective in how they apply that.

 
Here's the thing: there are a group of conservatives out there who are very nativist, very anti our trade agreements, pro-police, anti illegal immigrant, anti-Obama, and extremely pissed off at the Republican establishment. These people form a big chunk of the Trump supporters IMO, yet they are neither white supremacist nor anti-Semitic (in fact they tend to be big supporters of Israel). These guys are being grouped together with the extremist racist types and the whole thing is being called alt/right. I don't think that's fair or accurate. 
I would guess that the extremist racist types, if they identified with any political group, they might align most closely with the alt-right.

Whatever, if the distinction is that racism is not a tenet of the alt-right, then OK. I don't really see this being a big narrative, but fair enough.

Really, tho, here's the thing: Every voice they have, every leader, is a tremendous tool.

Bunch of jagoffs who will be the next thorn in the side of the GOP. 

 
I don't think it can be a serious political movement without some violent hate elements. They just can't get enough traction online to be taken seriously otherwise.

 
I mean, if stamping out political correctness is a major plank in the platform, why would anyone take them serious.

I'm not taking these chubby angry white guys seriously because they are upset that they can't say awful things without someone calling them awful.

 
I mean, if stamping out political correctness is a major plank in the platform, why would anyone take them serious.

I'm not taking these chubby angry white guys seriously because they are upset that they can't say awful things without someone calling them awful.
I think one of their points, which was addressed in the NPR interview was that they are being called awful because they stand up for white Americans. Example, when a black man wants to protect his community he is celebrated, however if a white person wants to protect their community they are told they are racist. Not wanting low income housing in your school district is racist? 

Again i am not supporting alt-right? Those that know my posting history can attest to this, I am just explaining their viewpoint.

 
I think one of their points, which was addressed in the NPR interview was that they are being called awful because they stand up for white Americans. Example, when a black man wants to protect his community he is celebrated, however if a white person wants to protect their community they are told they are racist. Not wanting low income housing in your school district is racist? 

Again i am not supporting alt-right? Those that know my posting history can attest to this, I am just explaining their viewpoint.
I get you, I know that this isn't your view.

Thing is, when a black man protects his community, you rarely hear, ''can we keep all the white folks out from moving in?"

When black people complain about gentrification, it's not because they are upset about living near white people.

And black people that have the same views as the alt-right, but the opposite side are certainly villified and considered extremist.

They are ####heads too.

 
"Instinctive wariness of the foreign & the unfamiliar", BOKNARI & YIANNOPULOS wrote...

I find this to be "instinctively" humorous...since they can obviously trace their roots back to the colonials.  Irony?...maybe not, but still funny.

 
Can't it be both? 
This.  Europe has had mid-major parties devoted to this ideology for decades.  Trump either figured out that there was space in the US for him to tap into those same ideas, or he did it by accident.  It would not surprise me if the 2020 GOP nominee was a brighter and more articulate representative of the alt-right.  The really scary thing is that that candidate would probably be winning right now.

 
As a resident in the liberal left coast I'm not in touch with alt-right stuff. Geographically, where is this support coming from? It seems that the number of angry whites with Revolutionary War ancestry would be pretty small.

 
Look up the Twitter feeds of Neil Turner, RickyVaughn99, and Jared Wyand and then try to make the argument that they're not a hate group.

It's hard to truly define "alt-right", but I know hate speech when I see it and I'm no "SJW".

 
As a resident in the liberal left coast I'm not in touch with alt-right stuff. Geographically, where is this support coming from? It seems that the number of angry whites with Revolutionary War ancestry would be pretty small.
You would think so, but apparently you would be wrong.  Honestly, this election has been extremely eye-opening for me.  I don't know anybody (that I know of) who embraces racism or white nationalism, but there's obviously a pretty significant number of people out there who do.  Not enough to elect a dolt of a candidate, but enough to get that dolt nominated and enough to provide him a 40% or so floor.  

I'm still anti-PC and pretty much a free speech absolutist.  (Actually, it bothers me that "free speech" and "anti-racism" have somehow become opposing sides -- they shouldn't be).  But I've become a lot more sensitive to issue of systemic racism than I used to be even a year or so ago.  I figured that the racism that existed was more or less dying off on it's own, but the alt-right managed to convince me that that isn't the case and that there's a lot more of this sort of thing out there than I had previously believed.   

 
Do we have an estimate of how many people subscribe to this?

Any chance that it's just a vocal and obnoxious minority? I'm not sure all Trump supporters automatically fall into this alt-right category.

 
Do we have an estimate of how many people subscribe to this?

Any chance that it's just a vocal and obnoxious minority? I'm not sure all Trump supporters automatically fall into this alt-right category.
All of it no but I would guess 75% of his support right now is coming from it. 

It seems like this election has uncovered the dirty little secret that some of us had no idea about. There is a strong vein in this country that still subscribe to racists ideology. They are not going to come out and say it, but behind close doors (and apparently the ballet box) they will speak their minds.

 
Well, I don't think they're a serious movement right now. But if it becomes one, we can attribute it to backlash against the over-liberalization of this country, and the constant playing of the race card by some minorities. 

 
All of it no but I would guess 75% of his support right now is coming from it. 

It seems like this election has uncovered the dirty little secret that some of us had no idea about. There is a strong vein in this country that still subscribe to racists ideology. They are not going to come out and say it, but behind close doors (and apparently the ballet box) they will speak their minds.
I think it is a lot smaller than that. I would honestly be surprised if it was more than 5%. The reason it appears more is because there are a number of people who are not racist that are fed up with immigration, fed up with the threat from a minority of a certain Middle Eastern religion (which frankly promote a philosophy that is the antithesis of freedom) and sick of globalization and what is has done to our working class. It is a reaction to our policies for the past several decades.

The last thing we need is the alt right. And from what I have read, they are thrilled that a major party candidate gave them credibility by mentioning them.

 
Well, I don't think they're a serious movement right now. But if it becomes one, we can attribute it to backlash against the over-liberalization of this country, and the constant playing of the race card by some minorities. 
We can't just attribute it to a weak, ineffectual men that are looking for a reason to be angry?

Cause.....that's what I'm going to attribute it to.

 
I think what gets me about this that they have a name now, but it was coined maybe just mid to late last year by a commentator.

What did we call them before? I don't really like the term as it's an outwardly neutral term which gives some sort of intellectual weight to what is a very old ideology. Stormfront is a well known site but there are a couple more which are much more prominent, much more neutral in appearance.
Racist branch of the Republican Party.  Alt-Right is certainly catchier.

 
I think it is a lot smaller than that. I would honestly be surprised if it was more than 5%. The reason it appears more is because there are a number of people who are not racist that are fed up with immigration, fed up with the threat from a minority of a certain Middle Eastern religion (which frankly promote a philosophy that is the antithesis of freedom) and sick of globalization and what is has done to our working class. It is a reaction to our policies for the past several decades.

The last thing we need is the alt right. And from what I have read, they are thrilled that a major party candidate gave them credibility by mentioning them.
Things have gone very liberal, very quickly.  It was only a little over 30 years ago that Reagan left office - most of these extremists grew up in very conservative households and are having difficulty adjusting to world today. 

 
Things have gone very liberal, very quickly.  It was only a little over 30 years ago that Reagan left office - most of these extremists grew up in very conservative households and are having difficulty adjusting to world today. 
I don't see it that way either. They are very good with social media.

 
I don't see it that way either. They are very good with social media.


You think they are a small minority? I disagree the problem is larger than most people anticipated. We have a long way to go. And sadly sometimes the talking points they use are seductive to people who feel somewhat helpless and believe that "Their America" is dying. Note: Not that I believe that but I can see someone in the state of mind.  

 
You think they are a small minority? I disagree the problem is larger than most people anticipated. We have a long way to go. And sadly sometimes the talking points they use are seductive to people who feel somewhat helpless and believe that "Their America" is dying. Note: Not that I believe that but I can see someone in the state of mind.  
I think the racists are a small minority.

 
No idea but regardless there is serious overlap between those who identify as being apart of the alt-right and those who frequent 4chan.
I've been saying it for awhile, Trump has been running a 4chan candidacy for months now.  I know this isn't a Trump thread, but it's pretty clear who the alt-right's candidate of choice is here.

 
There has always in recent history been some element of racism in the GOP.  Candidates inside the GOP have known this and many like  like Mccain, Romney, Bush and others have made it a point to show that those with a racists ideology do not have a seat at the proverbial table with the GOP. However now with Trump he is not only adding them a place setting he is opening courting them with policies.   

 
Classic victim blaming. If only those minorities weren't so insistent on being treated fairly these racists would just go away!
:lol:  "victim"? Oh, come on don't be dramatic. That's laughable and I'm not even white.
People are free to be as racist as they wanna be, that doesn't mean there's a victim in the equation. 

 
:lol:  "victim"? Oh, come on don't be dramatic. That's laughable and I'm not even white.
People are free to be as racist as they wanna be, that doesn't mean there's a victim in the equation. 
You're the guy that wants to blame a racist movement on too many people playing the race card and I'm the dramatic one. Sure thing.

But I'll give you credit on one thing, I'm not sure I've ever actually seen the 'a little racism never hurt anybody' approach taken before. 

 
You're the guy that wants to blame a racist movement on too many people playing the race card and I'm the dramatic one. Sure thing.

But I'll give you credit on one thing, I'm not sure I've ever actually seen the 'a little racism never hurt anybody' approach taken before. 
We've also had people on this board astounded and disgusted that Jim Crow Era black people might have violent thoughts toward whites "just because a few of their rights were denied."

I don't know how to deal with a lack of empathy like that.

 
igbomb said:
You're the guy that wants to blame a racist movement on too many people playing the race card and I'm the dramatic one. Sure thing.

But I'll give you credit on one thing, I'm not sure I've ever actually seen the 'a little racism never hurt anybody' approach taken before. 
People had to have known that a group was going to pop up that would be on the opposing side of BLM. 

 

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