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BigSteelThrill

Joe Schobert NFL leader in tackles. Kendricks released.

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2017 UPDATE*  Now at MLB in the Greg Williams D'.

 

 

After putting out their depth chart with Orchard at the lead on Moday 9/5.... the Browns updated it today 9/6 with the NFLs 4.01 rookie pick Joe Schobert as the starter.

I re-watched the week 3 game vs Tampa Bay:

  1. The team played a 3-3-5 a vast majority of the time. With only 1 OLB out there, either Kruger, Orchard or Schobert.
  2.  Paul Kruger was always on the left (with 3 big lineman) was a worthless slug and subsequently cut.
  3. Nate Orchard was on the right of the big 3 when it was his turn. Had up-field speed but showed little else. Especially with contain.
  4. Joe Schobert was always on the right and looked the part. Not a freak of an athlete by any means -- but did everything well. Run or pass rush. He got push on left tackles and tight-ends. Drew a holding penalty. Got good depth on his rush and dipped-the-corner well. Maintained edge responsibility terrifically. Adjusted to QBs and RBs who cut to either side of him. Chased plays wherever they went. Was a wrap up tackler.
  5. He came off on every 3rd down with more then about 4 yards to go. Not sure how this plays out going forward, but seems a 2-down player for now. May have been that nights scheme though.
  6. The Browns certainly seemed to "lose" pass rush when they took him off (or Orchard) and just left 3 or 4 big men to go after the QB. Not much penetration.
Edited by BigSteelThrill
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:thumbup:

Good info.

Orchard finished up on a high note last year but Schobert did outplay him in the preseason.

Ballzy call by Ray Horton to start the rookie,

This could pay off for him but I'm not sure what to expect IDP-wise.

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2 hours ago, AnonymousBob said:

Ogbah also named one of the starters. Thought he was going to be DE this year?

In game #3, he saw action at both DE and OLB. He was a hand in the dirt 3-4 DE most of the game. He started as such. Nassib came in behind him and then he saw some snaps at OLB. In game 4, which I only see the gamebook, he is again at DE and so is Nassib. The website shows him at OLB opposite of Schobert now, so we will have to wait and see.

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Ogbah might get DE next year. I would watch that.

 

Ive got Nassib in a couple of leagues. Im looking forward to seeing if I got something there or not.

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12 hours ago, AnonymousBob said:

Ogbah also named one of the starters. Thought he was going to be DE this year?

The Browns base defense is a 3-4 and Ogbah isn't built like a 3-4 DE and wasn't holding up against the run there.  He's not a 5 (5-technique 3-4 DE).

------------------------

ClevelandTeams
‏@clevelandteams
@_PeteSmith_ can't Nassib and Ogdbah play the 5?

Pete Smith ‏@_PeteSmith_  Sep 4
Pete Smith Retweeted ClevelandTeams
Ogbah is a disaster there as a run defender

@_PeteSmith_ Are you getting the feeling Horton is moving from a hyrbid 3-4 to a hybrid 4-3?

Pete Smith ‏@_PeteSmith_  Sep 4
Pete Smith Retweeted William Coffman
He could, but I think much of that was due to not having a legit 5. Paea gives them the ability to have that.Pete Smith added,
William Coffman @Coffman_Law

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8 hours ago, PlasmaDogPlasma said:

Yeah, still not really fantasy relevant except in the largest of leagues.

He is in a good statistical spot (rolb)... but he needs to get that 3-down designation with those pass rushing reps for solid use.

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10 hours ago, PlasmaDogPlasma said:

Yeah, still not really fantasy relevant except in the largest of leagues.

He has DE eligibility in some leagues. That has to be fairly valuable. 

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Not that any of them show any IDP value...

but Nate Orchard started at OLB last Sunday. And Carl Nassib is now showing as 3rd string DE.

Kirksey, Davis and Ogbah (more DE then OLB) all logged more snaps then Orchard, however.

Schobert had 16 and Lemonier (who pushed Nassib to non-active) 18.

 

***The Cleveland Browns .com depth chart which is updated on 9/27 shows Schobert as the starting OLB opposite Ogbah.

Edited by BigSteelThrill

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14 hours ago, BigSteelThrill said:

Not that any of them show any IDP value...

but Nate Orchard started at OLB last Sunday. And Carl Nassib is now showing as 3rd string DE.

Kirksey, Davis and Ogbah (more DE then OLB) all logged more snaps then Orchard, however.

Schobert had 16 and Lemonier (who pushed Nassib to non-active) 18.

 

***The Cleveland Browns .com depth chart which is updated on 9/27 shows Schobert as the starting OLB opposite Ogbah.

 

I said I didn't know what to expect from Schobert as a starter because Orchard is the pass rush guy and they are grooming Ogbah.  Nassib has a broken hand so he is OUT for a few more weeks.  

Schobert looked more like a natural fit inside but both Kirksey and the LB the Browns picked up from the Jets are doing great in the middle.  I think a lot of their production is due to the fine play of NT Danny Shelton who has really stepped up this year.  

Schobert is getting snaps in a rotation on the outside.  Ogbah is making progress each week and I think he's going to start making traps and become IDP relevant soon but not right now.  Orchard gets a nice pass rush push but he's smaller and has trouble setting the edge.  If anyone will emerge as an IDP OLB prospect on the Browns defense it will be Ogbah IMHO.  I haven't seen enough of Schobert to say he will or won't be relevant but I see enough from Ogbah to see his development and potential.

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On 8/10/2017 at 0:09 AM, Hankmoody said:

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Williams put Kirksey at MIKE and played Pryor at WILL.  If KIrksey does stay at WILL I like Schobert over Carder.

Well part 1 accomplished.  Can he be a 3 down guy though?  He was all over the place last night and looked the part but not sure what their sub packages will look like.  Collins is a pretty good pass rusher and Schobert's roots are as a 3-4 rush OLB so maybe they go 3-3-5.

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15 hours ago, BigSteelThrill said:

This kid is looking damn good in the middle of Greg Williams 4-3.

Impressive two weeks in a row. And Carder got banged up.

He was on his way to beating Tank anyway.  Looked strong with the 2's last week and was dominant last night.

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5 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

Well part 1 accomplished.  Can he be a 3 down guy though?  He was all over the place last night and looked the part but not sure what their sub packages will look like.  Collins is a pretty good pass rusher and Schobert's roots are as a 3-4 rush OLB so maybe they go 3-3-5.

If he keeps playing like that then he will force more 3 LB packages.  I think he's ultimately best fit as a rotational guy, but he's certainly earned some rope.

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Opportunity makes for a great FF LBer. The Browns are going to be pretty good, talent-wise, on defense but the team will still struggle enough to need them on the field a lot. Could be some good FF defense numbers to be had here in IDP.

 

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Schobert all-alone in the middle once again with the release of Kendricks.  Rack them tackles up!

Was already playing 3-downs ahead of Collins at LB, though Collins getting pass-rush time ahead of some of the DLs.

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29 minutes ago, BigSteelThrill said:

Schobert all-alone in the middle once again with the release of Kendricks.  Rack them tackles up!

Was already playing 3-downs ahead of Collins at LB, though Collins getting pass-rush time ahead of some of the DLs.

Honestly, I don't think Kendricks was ever a threat to Schobert's role. Changes nothing IMO. 

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2 minutes ago, RushHour said:

Honestly, I don't think Kendricks was ever a threat to Schobert's role. Changes nothing IMO. 

It was talked about a bunch upon his signings. And the Joes rankings dropped noticeably everywhere as a result.  We will see if they rebound.

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12 hours ago, RushHour said:

Honestly, I don't think Kendricks was ever a threat to Schobert's role. Changes nothing IMO. 

Yup.  Kendricks would have eaten into Kirksey's role. 

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Joe Schobert's hamstring could sideline him 'for a little while

Quote

 

... they'll be without starting middle linebacker Joe Schobert for at least a little while with his pulled hamstring.

...He was replaced by James Burgess Jr., who suffered a hamstring injury of his own in the fourth quarter. Jackson said Burgess will likely sit out Sunday's game. He also said one option would be to move Christian Kirksey inside.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Flying Elvis said:

right through bye week hell... ugh. going to have to roll with bucannon. scary

 

I think you can find something better than Bucannon at this point.  You don't want him to spin the wheel of snaps and land on 4 for the day. 

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1 hour ago, Gally said:

I think you can find something better than Bucannon at this point.  You don't want him to spin the wheel of snaps and land on 4 for the day. 

Hopefully Kyzir White is back... but the wire is pretty bare with 55 man rosters. There is a target or two that I will try to grab but none that are locks to do much more. Then again, they can't do less than the zero Buc is likely to drop. 

EDIT: Actually, the answer may just be sitting on my TS... time to promote Genard Avery! ?

Edited by Flying Elvis
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5 hours ago, Flying Elvis said:

Hopefully Kyzir White is back... but the wire is pretty bare with 55 man rosters. There is a target or two that I will try to grab but none that are locks to do much more. Then again, they can't do less than the zero Buc is likely to drop. 

EDIT: Actually, the answer may just be sitting on my TS... time to promote Genard Avery! ?

Winner, winner....chicken dinner!

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I think Collins will see an uptick in snaps as well. He’s had some decent games lately. If they are really trying to win Collins, if they are playing for the future and trying to figure what Gerard is all about, him. 

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Burgess waived. Avery expected to start at WLB.

I think @The Claymaker is correct... Kirksey & Collins seem like the best bet for 3 down work with Avery possibly seeing some pass rush snaps in more obvious passing situations. 100% speculation on this part, though. 

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11 hours ago, The Claymaker said:

I think Collins will see an uptick in snaps as well. He’s had some decent games lately. If they are really trying to win Collins, if they are playing for the future and trying to figure what Gerard is all about, him. 

Collins has been a disaster.

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Andrew Gribble‏Verified account @Andrew_Gribble

FollowFollow @Andrew_Gribble

Browns LB Joe Schobert said his hamstring injury is “not as bad as it could be.” He’s week to week.

9:25 AM - 17 Oct 2018 from Ohio, USA

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Woo-hoo, got Avery everywhere.  I'm skeptical that he'll still be used on the edge too much, but maybe I'll be wrong then when Schobert comes back Collins can be IR'd with a phantom injury.  I just hope Schobert's not rushed back.  The defense is going to suffer mightily without him, but hammy's are very susceptible to re-aggravation if brought back too soon and the second one is always worse than the first.  Just shut him down til after the bye no matter how poorly the next 4 games go.

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2 hours ago, Flying Elvis said:

So what is the problem with Collins? Talent fell off a cliff? Still too much freelancing? Got paid and now complacent?

 

If his next team can get him on an incentive laden prove it deal I'd be cautiously optimistic, but if he is able to carve out one good season I'd run like hell away from him.

Edited by MAC_32
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3 hours ago, Flying Elvis said:

So what is the problem with Collins? Talent fell off a cliff? Still too much freelancing? Got paid and now complacent?

Over the past three weeks he's had 23 tackles and 2 sacks.

I was at the Baltimore game and he looked good to me and he was praised by the coaches after that game.  

The numbers over the past  three weeks show he's been making plays.

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Thanks... appreciate the feedback. He's a guy I was unhappy to see shipped out of NE but he's been less than stellar based on stats (last 2 weeks notwithstanding) and I don't see much of the Browns. Was curious if it was simply the SLB designation vs. something else. 

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5 minutes ago, Flying Elvis said:

Thanks... appreciate the feedback. He's a guy I was unhappy to see shipped out of NE but he's been less than stellar based on stats (last 2 weeks notwithstanding) and I don't see much of the Browns. Was curious if it was simply the SLB designation vs. something else. 

'Supposedly' he was dealing with injuries the last two years and I had heard he is finally healthy.

If you can find video of him this year then check it out for yourself.  

He really does look good.  He was making run stops and for the first time he has been applying pressure and in preseason he got a pick.

With Schobert out his role 'may' change and his numbers seemed to suffer last week after Joe went out but  he really had been looking good to me this year.

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Myles Garrett over the first three games had 10 tackles, 4 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, 1 stuff, and 2 passes defensed.

Over the past three weeks he's had 12 tackles, 1 sack, 0 forced fumbles, 1 stuff, 1 pass defensed and he's been burned on multiple runs where he had backside contain.

Could playing 3 OT games,  nearly an entire extra game and nearly every snap have had any impact on his effectiveness?

Yeah and he has not looked good but make no mistake about it, he is very good.

Collins hadn't done anything until this year where he is actually making plays but the entire defense, including its best player has looked gassed due to being on the field a sht-ton more than any other defense in the league.

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36 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Myles Garrett over the first three games had 10 tackles, 4 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, 1 stuff, and 2 passes defensed.

Over the past three weeks he's had 12 tackles, 1 sack, 0 forced fumbles, 1 stuff, 1 pass defensed and he's been burned on multiple runs where he had backside contain.

Could playing 3 OT games,  nearly an entire extra game and nearly every snap have had any impact on his effectiveness?

Yeah and he has not looked good but make no mistake about it, he is very good.

Collins hadn't done anything until this year where he is actually making plays but the entire defense, including its best player has looked gassed due to being on the field a sht-ton more than any other defense in the league.

In league chat for one of my leagues I had mentioned my concern with 4 CLE IDPs starting each week and how I felt like Baker taking over would actually be good for them since they may have more sustained drives and put up more points... so much for that idea.

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I can understand a full time player being gassed.  Garrett had been a 90%+ snap player up until last week.  There's an argument over use is what led to Schobert's injury.  The rookie Ward's missed like 4 snaps all year and Randall's played almost as many.  But Jamie Collins?  He has a 57, 61, and 79% sprinkled in there.  He's not gassed.  He's pillow soft.

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6 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

I can understand a full time player being gassed.  Garrett had been a 90%+ snap player up until last week.  There's an argument over use is what led to Schobert's injury.  The rookie Ward's missed like 4 snaps all year and Randall's played almost as many.  But Jamie Collins?  He has a 57, 61, and 79% sprinkled in there.  He's not gassed.  He's pillow soft.

The links you posted certainly don't tell a tale of a guy going all out for his 12M cap hit this season. Plays like that are not going to keep you on the roster when dead money drops significantly for 2019 & 2020. 

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