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BigSteelThrill

Joe Schobert NFL leader in tackles. Kendricks released.

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Collins has played 78% of all defensive snaps, only five players have more, Denzel, Darius, Garrett, Shobert, and Ogunjobi.  Every single one of those guys has not looked as good over the past three games as they did the first three games.  Even Denzel has not wrapped up on tackles and Schobert has been hot-and-cold on many plays before he got hurt.  Ogun looked on the verge of having a breakout but.... I'm not about to hijack on a Schobert thread on another Mac attack but to sum up.

Collins has made plays and he's missed plays but he's not the only one to miss plays and no one other than Schobert has made as many plays on defense as he has over the past three games.  The entire defense is gassed and is getting depleted by injuries and are not anywhere near as good the trajectory they began the year.

No matter as Collins over the past three games has been making plays.  

  • 23 tackles
  • 2 sacks
  • 2 stuffs
  • 1 pass defensed

 

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On 10/18/2018 at 4:05 PM, MAC_32 said:

I can understand a full time player being gassed.  Garrett had been a 90%+ snap player up until last week.  There's an argument over use is what led to Schobert's injury.  The rookie Ward's missed like 4 snaps all year and Randall's played almost as many.  But Jamie Collins?  He has a 57, 61, and 79% sprinkled in there.  He's not gassed.  He's pillow soft.

Don't want to prolong the discussion but I just saw this,

The entire defense is blowing tackles at a higher rate than any team in the league.  Playing 3 OTs or nearly an entire extra game has taken  a tole on everyone IMHO.  Click link to see graph  of bottom five teams in league for missed tackles.  

Which team has missed the most tackles? ⁦@NFLResearch⁩ NextGen Stats

Andrew Siciliano‏Verified account @AndrewSiciliano

FollowFollow @AndrewSiciliano

Which team has missed the most tackles? ⁦@NFLResearch⁩ NextGen Stats

8:15 AM - 18 Oct 2018

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3 hours ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Don't want to prolong the discussion but I just saw this,

The entire defense is blowing tackles at a higher rate than any team in the league.  Playing 3 OTs or nearly an entire extra game has taken  a tole on everyone IMHO.  Click link to see graph  of bottom five teams in league for missed tackles.  

Which team has missed the most tackles? ⁦@NFLResearch⁩ NextGen Stats

Andrew Siciliano‏Verified account @AndrewSiciliano

FollowFollow @AndrewSiciliano

Which team has missed the most tackles? ⁦@NFLResearch⁩ NextGen Stats

8:15 AM - 18 Oct 2018

Interesting stat, but it seems to correlate well with how often a defense is on the field.  Lots of teams with long OT games and weak offenses there.

This is a case where the rate stat (missed tackles / total defensive snaps) would probably be more enlightening.

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18 hours ago, Arodin said:

Interesting stat, but it seems to correlate well with how often a defense is on the field.  Lots of teams with long OT games and weak offenses there.

This is a case where the rate stat (missed tackles / total defensive snaps) would probably be more enlightening.

I didn't post it because its a unique stat correlated to OT time played with exhaustion/being overworked .  I posted it to show the raw number of missed tackles and that Jamie Collins isn't the only one making bad whiffs.  A one-sided case can be made for any player on that defense especially if you had a grudge.  If you remove the bias and just look he's made plays, he has missed plays but he's made plays and taken into context of the entire defense he's made more other than one guy who is currently injured and Schobert has missed a ton of tackles but he obviously makes plays.  With high raw numbers of missed tackles no matter ratio of defensive snaps it makes it easier to make a negative case against anyone because they've all missed tackles.  

Edited by Bracie Smathers

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Quite the stud IPD. It seems unlikely the Browns will let him go as FA next year... but holy hell is the price tag bonkers after the FA LBs this year. 

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3 hours ago, Flying Elvis said:

Quite the stud IPD. It seems unlikely the Browns will let him go as FA next year... but holy hell is the price tag bonkers after the FA LBs this year. 

He'll be worth every penny. This is why I was adamant about not making moves for guys like Gerald McCoy in the offseason. He's priority #1. Don't try to figure anything else out until his number is set.

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In case anyone was interested...

In the 70s... 4 picks in two games by a LB...

Ted Hendrcks, Green Bay 1974 (3+1)

LeRoy Jordan, Dallas 1973 (3+1)

Jack Pardee, Washington 1971 (1+3)

Al Beauchamp, Cincinnati 1971 (2+2).

And as a bonus... in '75 Stan White of the Baltimore Colts had 8 interceptions in 14 games as a LBer! 

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Joe is up for a huge payday.  We saw last year that LBers cleaned up but not many made an impact especially considering the huge paydays we saw so I took a look at what Joe did this year with Myles Garrett and without Myles.

Season split  w/Myles Garrett and without Myles Garrett.

First ten games with Myles Garrett:

  • 66 solos (6.5 solos per game)
  • 25 assists
  • 6 TFL 
  • 1 sack
  • 2 INTs
  • 5 PDs

Last five games without Myles Garrett:

  • 17 solos (3.4 solos per game)
  • 16 assists
  • 0 TFL
  • 0 sacks
  • 2 INTs
  • 4 PDs

-----------------------------------------------

This split can be explained away as poor D-Line play and him not being able to attack gaps which is reflected in the lack of TFL/Sacks and disproportionate solo VS. assists w/Myles and without him.

The scheme last year caused a ton of missed tackles IMHO as Greg Williams had a blitz on nearly every play so the linebackers were on ice skates trying to cover a lot of ground so last year Joe was one of the leaders  in missed tackles.

This year with a new scheme?

Tied for 3rd in the NFL in missed tackles on the year:

Missed tackle leaders 2019

I think Joe has to be extended because he can cover but he's still missing a lot of tackles.  

Edited by Bracie Smathers
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If Garret is out there, you scheme for him. Your blocking is focused on the rushers (incl Vernon, Ogun and Richardson).

If Garret (and Vernon) isn't out there, you send the kitchen sink at Schobert.

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On 12/24/2019 at 4:09 PM, Bracie Smathers said:

I think Joe has to be extended because he can cover but he's still missing a lot of tackles.  

That's exactly why you don't extend a guy.  You can't pay premium money to a guy that doesn't excel.  Just go get another 5th rounder that makes some plays but misses a lot of tackles and save yourself a few million bucks.  Go get an OL in FA or get one of your young bucks done early or heck just roll the cap space over until Garrett, Chubb, Baker, Ward, and OBJ all have new deals coming within a 2-3 year span.

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34 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

That's exactly why you don't extend a guy.  You can't pay premium money to a guy that doesn't excel.  Just go get another 5th rounder that makes some plays but misses a lot of tackles and save yourself a few million bucks.  Go get an OL in FA or get one of your young bucks done early or heck just roll the cap space over until Garrett, Chubb, Baker, Ward, and OBJ all have new deals coming within a 2-3 year span.

Look at the big bucks of the top FA signings of last year, i.e., the LBers.  The lesson is don't go out and sign a high priced FA LBers and if you have a home grown talent who is young and have NOTHING behind him when the game has changed where teams are running 4-2-5 fronts with a safety playing up because they can cover then that is the reason why you re-up Schobert.  

Teams are paying top dollar for FA LBers if they can rush the passer and/or cover.  

The split shows he excels with a viable DL in front of him.  Browns lost both Garrett AND Olivier Vernon.  Duel losses up front screwed up the defensive fits.  

He should play much better with Garrett and Vernon.  He will miss tackles but not as much since he will be attacking gaps and won't be on his heels or covering as much ground.

If Joe leaves I don't think he would have as much NFL or IDP value as he would in Cleveland.

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19 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

That's exactly why you don't extend a guy.  You can't pay premium money to a guy that doesn't excel.  Just go get another 5th rounder that makes some plays but misses a lot of tackles and save yourself a few million bucks.  Go get an OL in FA or get one of your young bucks done early or heck just roll the cap space over until Garrett, Chubb, Baker, Ward, and OBJ all have new deals coming within a 2-3 year span.

He's the quarterback of the defense. You don't just find those day 3 and plug them in. He's a complete player as long as he has a strong DL in front of him. If he doesnt have a strong DL in front of him then we aren't winning anyway. Browns don't usually get second contracts. If this team is ever going to build a culture then they need to retain their own. He's perfect. 

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https://twitter.com/SigmundBloom/status/1229082497570484224

“Dorsey, was prepared to let Schobert walk in FA bc they were so far apart on $ and Schobert was a Sashi Brown draft pick. But now that Berry is GM, Schobert has a better chance of re-signing here, which is what he wants...the fact Berry was involved in drafting him should help”

Bloom quoting Mary Kay Cabot.

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Last year Kwon Alexander and C.J.  Mosly  broke the bank and never lived up to their exorbitant price tags.

The split last year of  Joe Schobert with and without Myles Garrett shows a significant drop in production with a spike in missed tackles.

I think Joe should test the market but if he's wise he would realize his bread gets buttered playing behind Myless Garrett and he'll make far more money long-term when he's posting strong numbers.  Sure he can cover but he's not going to make top FA  dollars last year's crop got just as a cover LB.

Go test the market Joe  and  come back and keep being an IDP stud.

Browns’ Andrew Berry: Joe Schobert has ‘earned the right to test the market’; non-committal on Olivier Vernon Updated Feb 25, 2020; Posted Feb 25, 2020

 

Edited by Bracie Smathers

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Those LB deals looked insane then and even worse now. Hicks was a stud and the only one that looks like it was decent money for what they got. Obviously Kwon and CJ getting hurt makes the eval tougher but it's still pretty clear that the 14+ per season was stupid. I'd guess that Hicks contract is the one teams will look at when making offers. I expect the LB signings to be ice cold to start FA b/c agents will be looking at Kwon & CJ and no team will pay that again. Just my guess... should be an interesting one to watch.

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Could he go home in a sense to Green Bay if they paid him over Blake Martinez?

 

Let's face it....these coming home connections rarely work that way.

 

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