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What do you expect from Gary Barnidge? (1 Viewer)

How will Gary Barnidge finish the 2016 season

  • Total voters
    117
Hot Sauce Guy

Hot Sauce Guy

Footballguy
Monster season, but now RGIII, shaky OL, etc. 

He's consistently ranked in the top 5-6 TEs, but I've not seen much action in the preseason. 

Curious where all y'all here at FBG's are rating him for 2016. Elite (top 3), semi-elite (4-5), Mid-range (6-7), below average (8-12) or bust (out of the top 12, TE2) 

Rock the vote! 

 
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IMO, he greatly benefited from having little competition for targets last year. He and Benjamin each had 125 targets. The other receivers (Hartline, Gabriel, Hawkins, Jennings, Bowe) left a lot to be desired.

This year, the WR corps has more and better options. Gordon will be back soon. Pryor has emerged. Coleman was a top draft pick and several other receivers were drafted. Duke Johnson may also see an expanded role out of the backfield.

Based on that, Barnidge could easily see a drop off in fantasy production by 25-35%, which would probably rank him in the TE 8-10 range.

 
Last year would seem like a fluke when you consider that he had 44 receptions during his first 6 seasons in the league. However if you watched him play last season, he surely looked the part. He's pretty athletic, knows how to get open and was sure handed. With that said I'd feel a lot better about his prospects this season if Josh McCown was starting as they had a real nice rapport last season and he likes throwing to big targets. I could see RGIII using Barnidge as a security blanket I guess.

What this all adds up to is me voting "mid range", which frankly means I really don't know. I'd take a chance on him in that range, but wouldn't feel great about him being my starting TE unless he came cheaply. 

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Last year would seem like a fluke when you consider that he had 44 receptions during his first 6 seasons in the league. However if you watched him play last season, he surely looked the part. He's pretty athletic, knows how to get open and was sure handed. With that said I'd feel a lot better about his prospects this season if Josh McCown was starting as they had a real nice rapport last season and he likes throwing to big targets. I could see RGIII using Barnidge as a security blanket I guess.

What this all adds up to is me voting "mid range", which frankly means I really don't know. I'd take a chance on him in that range, but wouldn't feel great about him being my starting TE unless he came cheaply. 
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I kinda feel the same....he fell to me very late in one draft so I grabbed him, followed by JThomas, and Cook off the WW (who I think might end up my TE1 before all's said & done)

Does RGIII have any sort of proven track record of dumping off to his TE?  I seem to recall him tucking & running more than dumping off to a security blanket, which was partially his downfall previously. 

I also voted mid-range. Any CLE homers here who've seen more of the RGIII-to-Barnidge than we saw in preseason? 

 
In his Redskins days, Reed averaged 7.74 fantasy ppg one year in about half a season (0 ppr). Fred Davis averaged 4.66 fantasy ppg (0 ppr) the year before playing with RG3, also in roughly half a season. Reed's projected scoring total over a full season would have been roughly 75-80% of what Barnidge scored last year, although it is nearly impossible to compare two completely different teams and systems.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Does RGIII have any sort of proven track record of dumping off to his TE?  
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Jordon Reed had 45-495-3 (in 9 games) and Logan Paulsen had 28-267-3 in 2013 - Pierre Garcon had 181 targets that season.

During his 2012 rookie season Fred Davis and Logan Paulsen had minimal production.

In the past RGIII threw downfield or like you said tucked and ran. This wouldn't appear great for Barnidge's chances.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Jordon Reed had 45-495-3 (in 9 games) and Logan Paulsen had 28-267-3 in 2013 - Pierre Garcon had 181 targets that season.

During his 2012 rookie season Fred Davis and Logan Paulsen had minimal production.

In the past RGIII threw downfield or like you said tucked and ran. This wouldn't appear great for Barnidge's chances.
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Yeah, that was my recollection as well - that said, he seems to have reinvented himself slightly - and the CLE OC recognizes Barnidge as a weapon. 

While it's a bit of a crowded receiving corps, and I understand there are only so many targets to go around, wouldn't that depth of talent on offense be good for Barnidge by creating mismatches against LBs and safeties? 

When Gordon comes back, he gets the opponent's DB1 (and maybe even double coverage), Pryor DB2, Coleman (if he's the real deal) DB3, and that leaves a massive guy with great hands and quicks...to me this is the ideal scenario for production, IF RGIII can find him. He's not always been a 1-2-3-4 read QB. Far from it. 

 
I think last year was definitely fluky (as epitomized by the Butt Catch), but I still think he can be solid even with a drop-off. As someone who plays in deeper (14- and 16-team) leagues and who doesn't like to draft TEs early, I've been putting him at the top of my mid-TE tier along with Ertz, Gates, and Bennett. I don't think he's better than Kelce, but I wouldn't be shocked if he outperformed him again and finished TE4 behind Gronk, Reed and Olsen.

FWIW: *If* Gordon comes back at his 2013 level of performance, it's worth keeping in mind that he absolutely killed Cameron's value that year. A few weeks into the season, with Gordon on suspension, JC was like the TE1, but by the second half of the season, when Gordon was racking up those 200-yard games, he was doing absolutely nothing.

 
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Hot Sauce Guy said:
Yeah, that was my recollection as well - that said, he seems to have reinvented himself slightly - and the CLE OC recognizes Barnidge as a weapon. 

While it's a bit of a crowded receiving corps, and I understand there are only so many targets to go around, wouldn't that depth of talent on offense be good for Barnidge by creating mismatches against LBs and safeties? 

When Gordon comes back, he gets the opponent's DB1 (and maybe even double coverage), Pryor DB2, Coleman (if he's the real deal) DB3, and that leaves a massive guy with great hands and quicks...to me this is the ideal scenario for production, IF RGIII can find him. He's not always been a 1-2-3-4 read QB. Far from it. 
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The error in this logic is thinking that Barnidge would be covered by a CB to begin with. I would guess a LB would take him in the middle with safety help over the top. He might have some opportunities with the receivers or Dukedrawing coverage, but IMO his targets going down should still be a problem. I think the Browns offense overall will do better than some people think, but there is only one football and it may be hard for him to see 125 targets this year, I also think RG3 will struggle with consistency, so that could also lead to some feast or famine games.

 
Anarchy99 said:
The error in this logic is thinking that Barnidge would be covered by a CB to begin with. I would guess a LB would take him in the middle with safety help over the top. He might have some opportunities with the receivers or Dukedrawing coverage, but IMO his targets going down should still be a problem. I think the Browns offense overall will do better than some people think, but there is only one football and it may be hard for him to see 125 targets this year, I also think RG3 will struggle with consistency, so that could also lead to some feast or famine games.
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Not an error in logic, a statement - I am also, too, as well saying he won't see DBs covering him.  I think maybe you misunderstood. 

He might actually in the 1st 4 games...

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Not an error in logic, a statement - I am also, too, as well saying he won't see DBs covering him.  I think maybe you misunderstood. 

He might actually in the 1st 4 games...
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There should be opportunities for the wide outs to pull the defense to the sidelines and leave the middle of the field open for seam routes or TE crossing patterns provided RG3 can identify the coverage, potentially audible, and hit Barnidge with a well timed pass. I don't know Griffin's tendencies, but an overthrow in this scenario could easily end up in an interception. But these types of situations should be available if they can exploit them.

 
I'm hopeful because of the numbers Eifert put up under Hue Jackson last year in Cincy, but he's the player I spent the 5th or 6th most on at auction so I am hardly unbiased.

 
Go DC Yourself said:
I'm hopeful because of the numbers Eifert put up under Hue Jackson last year in Cincy, but he's the player I spent the 5th or 6th most on at auction so I am hardly unbiased.
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Yeah, Hugh seems to get a lot out of his TEs. 

For me the biggest question is whether or not RGIII will be able to make more than 1 read. 

And while I do have a share of Barnidge, I hedged with JThomas & Cook, so I just need to see something shake out early. Right now I'd start none with confidence - heck had Barnidge not fallen to the 11th round (IDP league - ADP is almost irrelevant after the 5th) I wouldn't have him on my roster. 

 
RGIII to Barnidge

This play gives me hope.

Hue finds a way to get his playmakers the ball. I think Barnidge is one of those guys. Their offensive personnel is very similar to Cincinnati's. I'm hoping for an Eifert type of 2015 with probably a few more yards and a few less TD's for Gary. 

 
Short answer: What Barnidge did last season was a fluke. If you look up the meaning of fluke in the dictionary it says see Gary Barnidge 2015 season.

As Anarcy and others have already described, there were a confluence of circumstances that all aligned themselves to his opportunity and performance last season.

Cleveland did not have many other options to throw to besides Barnidge, Benjamin and Johnson. The only WR threat was mainly a field stretcher, so this leaves the easy dump off options to the TE and RB. 

He averaged 7.8 targets per game. That is pretty much the ceiling for the top TE in the league. Gronkowski has only had more than 125 targets once in his career thus far. Antonio Gates once. So his opportunity was near the top for elite TE players, yet he is Gary Barnidge. This was 20.5% if the total targets.

The Browns had 1042 offensive plays last season and they threw the ball 609 times. Hue Jackson offenses average 1000 offensive plays and the run to pass ratio is very balanced, which means around 500 passing attempts. The most he has had a QB throw was 524 times with the 2011 Raiders and a combination of Carson Palmer+Jason Campbell. So even if nothing else changed and he maintains a 20% share of the targets (which is doubtful) that would be 100 targets.

Most of his good games came against weak opponents. and when McCown was starting. Games 3, 4 and 5 were against Oakland SD and Baltimore whe were very bad against the pass last year. He had 10 targets in two of those games, a lot for any player. Game 6 against Denver he had 9 targets but only caught 3 of them. This gives an indication of how well he does against a capable secondary, not nearly as well. This is pretty much the pattern for the whole season. The Browns just had few other options besides him last season. That is not the case this year. 

Tyler Eifert only has one decent season of data to draw on which was 2015 where he played 13 games. He averaged 5.7 targets per game which would be 91 targets over 16 games. This was 18% of the targets. Barnidge is not Eifert though. 

I see Barnidge getting 16% of the Browns 500 passing targets in 2016 which is 80 at a 62.5% catch rate (last 3 seasons for Barnidge) that is 50 receptions. At 13.4 ypc that is 670 yards which seems generous and perhaps 5-6 TD scored.

Those numbers were good for TE 9-10 last season in standard scoring leagues and about TE 12 in PPR leagues last year.

 
Biabreakable said:
I see Barnidge getting 16% of the Browns 500 passing targets in 2016 which is 80 at a 62.5% catch rate (last 3 seasons for Barnidge) that is 50 receptions. At 13.4 ypc that is 670 yards which seems generous and perhaps 5-6 TD scored.

Those numbers were good for TE 9-10 last season in standard scoring leagues and about TE 12 in PPR leagues last year.
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What do you base that 16% off of?  Full breakdown of projected receptions by CLE player would be useful since that's at the heart of your argument.  Gordon, while explosive, tends to do a lot with fewer receptions. Bombs and yardage without a ton of catches. Still, he'll be the target vacuum early and often when he comes back, but that's after 4 games. During those 4 games it's anyone's guess. And kinda even after week 5, except we'll know Gordon will be a favorite target. As for the rest? 

Coleman - yeah, not sure what to expect from the rookie. Will it be more targets than Barnidge? 

Duke will get some catches for sure - it's pretty much his job. 

Then there's Pryor, who I'm also uncertain of what to expect. He's looked good this preseason (he looks like a TE actually) but how will he look once it's for real. 

The distribution is pretty up in the air right now I'd say - you make a convincing case based on the math you've presented, but if Barnage gets say, 22% of the Browns ~500 passing attempts (which seems slightly low to me based on their defense and having to abandon the run when playing from behind) then you'd be talking about 110 targets to Barnidge, with 68 receptions for 921 yards and maybe 6-8 TDs. Those #s look good for a mid-range (e.g. 4-6 rank) TE1 in FFB. 

And what if we split the difference? Then we get 19% of 500 = 95 targets, for 59 receptions for 790 yds and 5-7 TDs. 

I'm still comfortable calling that low-end TE1 in FFB. 

So yeah - the point is we don't know how the numbers will shake out. It's probably not likely that Barnidge will suck up 22% of the targets. But at the same time I think 16% is low given Hugh Jackson's presence and his propensity for using the short pass like a running game. And the Browns will likely pass more than they want to. I'm just not as confident in your confidence about the passing distribution - gotta wait and see how it all shakes out. 

 
Biabreakable said:
Short answer: What Barnidge did last season was a fluke. If you look up the meaning of fluke in the dictionary it says see Gary Barnidge 2015 season.
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Really great post.  Well thought out.  The counterpoint to that would be Cleveland's defense continuing to be poor still resulting in an abnormal number of passing attempts.  You also mentioned his "good games" coming against weak opponents, but if you look at his game logs he was remarkably consistent. 

Barnidge also looks the part.  He was the size/speed combo you're looking for in a weapon at the position.  The opportunity finally met up with the talent.

He's an every down player and will be a reliable target for RG3 and/or McCown.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he led the Browns in targets. 

 
The 16% target share is mostly based on that I think Barnidge is a pretty average starting TE in the league and he isn't as good as Eifert who had 18% of the target share.

The 16% is applied to 500 passing attempts under the assumption of 1000 plays and 50/50 run/pass ratio which is the pattern of Hue Jackson the last two seasons and also as HC of the Raiders in 2011.

I am expecting the Browns to run the ball near 500 times this season while they only ran the ball 380 times last season. That is where most of the play distribution is going.

I was expecting Coleman to get a lot more targets in this offense before the emergence of Pryor, so that muddies things further. They have a lot of WR that we haven't seen play much yet and we have no data for. So I don't know where all the targets are going specifically right now, but there are many more viable targets to go to this season than there were in 2015.

 
Biabreakable said:
I was expecting Coleman to get a lot more targets in this offense before the emergence of Pryor, so that muddies things further. They have a lot of WR that we haven't seen play much yet and we have no data for. So I don't know where all the targets are going specifically right now, but there are many more viable targets to go to this season than there were in 2015.
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Thank you for summarizing my point. 

And Barnidge is one of those viable targets. Some might argue one of the more reliable ones, based on recent history. 

 
Grahamburn said:
Really great post.  Well thought out.  The counterpoint to that would be Cleveland's defense continuing to be poor still resulting in an abnormal number of passing attempts.  You also mentioned his "good games" coming against weak opponents, but if you look at his game logs he was remarkably consistent. 

Barnidge also looks the part.  He was the size/speed combo you're looking for in a weapon at the position.  The opportunity finally met up with the talent.

He's an every down player and will be a reliable target for RG3 and/or McCown.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he led the Browns in targets. 
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I was going for funny with that more than anything. I have no idea what is going to happen. Cleveland changes their whole team every season. Give me two years of some consistency to work with and maybe I could be more serious about an expectation.

 
I don't see 500 rushing attempts coming with that defense. You're projecting Crowell to have Demarco Murray 2014 type usage? They're going to playing from behind a lot.

Yeah, I get it. Dude looked quite average for six years. Of course when backing up Greg Olsen for four years you're not exactly primed to be the feature TE. 

I believe what my eyes saw last year. Barnidge is a beast. Don't own him, but he's going to surprise a lot of people jumping in the fluke bandwagon. 

 
BobbyLayne said:
I don't see 500 rushing attempts coming with that defense. You're projecting Crowell to have Demarco Murray 2014 type usage? They're going to playing from behind a lot.

Yeah, I get it. Dude looked quite average for six years. Of course when backing up Greg Olsen for four years you're not exactly primed to be the feature TE. 

I believe what my eyes saw last year. Barnidge is a beast. Don't own him, but he's going to surprise a lot of people jumping in the fluke bandwagon. 
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I agree with this. Watch him play last year and his catches are incredible.  Add Hue Jackson this year who absolutely loves his TE and it is not crazy to expect a repeat.  For those of you who say he is not Eifert you should compare their measurables and I think you will find them a lot more similar than you thought.

 
You make a good point that the Browns defense may not be able to support that number of rushing attempts.

The distribution I describe is 2/3 based on the last two seasons of the Bengals. The Raiders in 2011 was 29th in points allowed 30th in total yards allowed equally bad against the pass and run at 27th each. That offense passed the ball 524 times and ran 466 times. The primary QB were Palmer and Campbell who combined for 34 rushing attempts and Kyle Boller played one game where he ran the ball 9 times.

Andy Dalton has averaged about 60 rushing attempts the last 3 seasons. Robert Griffin if he starts all year should do something similar if not run the ball more than this.

In 2015 the Bengals ran the ball 467 times which is basically the same as 2011 Raiders. In 2014 the Bengals ran the ball 492 times. AJ Green and Marvin Jones were injured causing them to lean on the run slightly more.

500 rushing attempts was just a quick guesstimation of the run run to pass ratio. Hue Jackson's offenses have run the ball slightly less than that with an average of 475 times using these 3 seasons. If the defense does struggle then perhaps it will be more like 466 rushing attempts and more pass attempts to go along with that. I wouldn't expect much more than 525 though as I do think Hue Jackson is committed to this balance between the run and the pass.

This does not mean that Crowell would get 300 rushing attempts as Hue Jackson also likes to use two different RB in tandem that have different skill sets. He has those players in Crowell and Duke which seems similar to Hill and Bernard to me. So this would be 220 rushing attempts for Crow and 150 rushing attempts for Duke. The other 100 rushing attempts will mostly be the QB (like 60-80) and the other 20 are WR or other players who also get a few rushing attempts along the way.

eta- Cleveland has been a fluke factory with players such as Braylon Edwards, Josh Gordon, Peyton Hillis and so on have monster seasons never to come close to that again. The reason for that being unique circumstances that made these players a focal point of that seasons offense.

I also should add the OG Cleveland TE fluke of recent history Jordan Cameron.

 
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Dr. Octopus said:
Jordon Reed had 45-495-3 (in 9 games) and Logan Paulsen had 28-267-3 in 2013 - Pierre Garcon had 181 targets that season.

During his 2012 rookie season Fred Davis and Logan Paulsen had minimal production.

In the past RGIII threw downfield or like you said tucked and ran. This wouldn't appear great for Barnidge's chances.
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Fred Davis tore his achilles in game 7 of 2012. I know Paulsen (a blocking TE), athletic megastud that he is, deserved more targets but, somehow Griffin couldn't find him.

2013, similar circumstances. Reed, who was a rookie TE, left early in week 11 so he only really played in 8 games and Paulsen was basically his only TE target for half the season. Griffin also didn't play the last 3 games. 

Bottom line, making assumptions of how Griffin uses a capable pass catching TE with real NFL receiving skills and athleticism (Barnidge is an athletic freak) based on the 2012/2013 seasons is not exactly prudent.

 
ourmanflint said:
Fred Davis tore his achilles in game 7 of 2012. I know Paulsen (a blocking TE), athletic megastud that he is, deserved more targets but, somehow Griffin couldn't find him.

2013, similar circumstances. Reed, who was a rookie TE, left early in week 11 so he only really played in 8 games and Paulsen was basically his only TE target for half the season. Griffin also didn't play the last 3 games. 

Bottom line, making assumptions of how Griffin uses a capable pass catching TE with real NFL receiving skills and athleticism (Barnidge is an athletic freak) based on the 2012/2013 seasons is not exactly prudent.
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I get that he didn't have great options after the starters went down, but its all we have to go on. We also know he's not the type to go through progressions and/or check down. Like I said ealier, maybe he will use Barnidge as a security blanket, but we cant really know.

 
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IN MOP's 20 year old timers league apparently not very much. I almost took him in the 6th/7th and then had to grab him in the 8th with like 10+TEs off the board...how bad is he going to do?

I drafted GB and then I fell for the Eifert bait as my TE2 who I hopefully won't need for a while but when I do get him back...

 
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I expect his stats to go down obviously because there is more competition for targets, but not as drastically as other people seem to think. These new receivers run different kinds of routes. I still expect Barnidge to be the best option on shorter passes and over the middle.

 
I just don't see Hue relying on him or Bob finding him much. New regime, new philosophy, they obviously drafted WRs in bulk and they will want blocking for the run game.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I just don't see Hue relying on him or Bob finding him much. New regime, new philosophy, they obviously drafted WRs in bulk and they will want blocking for the run game.
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You see Hue turning Barnidge into a primary blocker? I thought he got the ball to Eifort plenty in Cinci. 

 
Tyler Eifert has a career average of 4.72 targets per game (76 targets for 16 games). In 2015 Eifert had 5.7 targets per game (91 targets over 16 games)

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
You see Hue turning Barnidge into a primary blocker? I thought he got the ball to Eifort plenty in Cinci. 
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Speculating here, I realize that. No just Hue relying on WRs more, with him staying in to block more while they run more and needing to protect Bob more and block downfield while they rely on their RBs more (especially Duke) in the pass game. I also remember this being an issue with Griffin in Was, the TEs spent time providing extra protection. Maybe Griffin is less of a liability dropping back now. Eifert did what he did on 74 targets but he also scored 13 TDs. Last year GB and Benjamin led in targets (125 each), now there will be Duke, Coleman, Pryor, then Gordon comes in, and they run more and Griffin will be hemming and hawing in the backfield.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Speculating here, I realize that. No just Hue relying on WRs more, with him staying in to block more while they run more and needing to protect Bob more and block downfield while they rely on their RBs more (especially Duke) in the pass game. I also remember this being an issue with Griffin in Was, the TEs spent time providing extra protection. Maybe Griffin is less of a liability dropping back now. Eifert did what he did on 74 targets but he also scored 13 TDs. Last year GB and Benjamin led in targets (125 each), now there will be Duke, Coleman, Pryor, then Gordon comes in, and they run more and Griffin will be hemming and hawing in the backfield.
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I see all that as "the great unknown" at this point. 

No idea if CLE can run the ball. No idea what the pass distribution (or pass protection) will be either. 

If Griffen gets put on his back as much as he did in the game 3 preseason warmup, all this could be moot. 

If they can pull it together and play competently, then it'll be interesting to see what happens. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
I see all that as "the great unknown" at this point. 

No idea if CLE can run the ball. No idea what the pass distribution (or pass protection) will be either. 

If Griffen gets put on his back as much as he did in the game 3 preseason warmup, all this could be moot. 

If they can pull it together and play competently, then it'll be interesting to see what happens. 
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Yeah I agree I'm looking forward to watching their offense.

 
I have him in the TE8-12 range.   With that being said--a lot of my projection of him has to do with what I think about the TE position in general.  I think Gronk, Olsen, Kelce, and Reed should be TE1-4 (barring health).   From that point on--I think the TE position will be fairly wide open week to week.  I could see guys like Julius Thomas , Barnidge, Martellus, Ebron, Walker, Jimmy Graham, Gates..etc all alternating really big weeks with really bad ones.   Basically--what I'm saying is that although I think that Barnidge might end up being TE8-TE12--I think you could draft two really late upside te's and stream them based on matchup--and you might very well be able to cumulatively match or outperform what Barndigde would give you on the season.   

 
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Barnidge last year playing with McCown at QB: 46-641-6 (8 games).
Barnidge playing last year without McCown at QB: 33-402-3 (8 games).
 

 
Anarchy99 said:
Barnidge last year playing with McCown at QB: 46-641-6 (8 games).
Barnidge playing last year without McCown at QB: 33-402-3 (8 games).
 
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To be fair, that was also without RGIII.  Wasn't it Johnny Football and uh, Austin Davis? 

Yeah - RGIII is a slight upgrade, and Hue Jackson is a coach who uses TEs. Not feeling this logic. The numbers you posted are accurately stated, but likely meaningless.  

 
I do think it's interesting that not one person has voted for Barnidge as "elite", considering he was the TE3 last year behind Gronk & Reed. 

I'd be good with anything in the mid-range, since I was able to land him relatively late - and if he doesn't perform, I also have both JThomas & Cook, so hopefully I do get that mid-range production out of one of the 3. Well, hopefully more than one so I can trade someone. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
To be fair, that was also without RGIII.  Wasn't it Johnny Football and uh, Austin Davis? 

Yeah - RGIII is a slight upgrade, and Hue Jackson is a coach who uses TEs. Not feeling this logic. The numbers you posted are accurately stated, but likely meaningless.  
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I was only posting something that I found interesting. McCown seemed to rely on Barnidge . . . others not as much. You pretty much have your mind made up on Barnidge, so at this point its a waste of time for people to present potential statistics, comments, or observations that don't fit you narrative. That's fine, we can all have varying perspectives.

 
Anarchy99 said:
I was only posting something that I found interesting. McCown seemed to rely on Barnidge . . . others not as much.  You pretty much have your mind made up on Barnidge, so at this point its a waste of time for people to present potential statistics, comments, or observations that don't fit you narrative. That's fine, we can all have varying perspectives.
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Not at all - if you read my other comments in here I see him as a mid-range guy (and if you check the voting you'll see that's what I voted)

I was simply replying to your post in a vacuum - you didn't "only post something you found interesting" - you clearly were painting a picture with your post, and I disagree with your logic. 

Sorry I thought the numbers you posted weren't relevant to the 2016 season. It is what it is. Agree to disagree and all that, but don't project the bolded part onto me - it's simply not accurate. Cheers. 

 
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Anarchy99 said:
I was only posting something that I found interesting. McCown seemed to rely on Barnidge . . . others not as much. You pretty much have your mind made up on Barnidge, so at this point its a waste of time for people to present potential statistics, comments, or observations that don't fit you narrative. That's fine, we can all have varying perspectives.
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I stated earlier in the thread that I'd feel much better about Barnidge if McCown were still the starter as they had nice rapport and McCown seems to like throwing to big targets so your numbers didn't shock me.

I actually see them as relevant as well in that I don't think RGIII is the kind of QB that will use his TE much. I think he likes to attack deep and doesn't scan the field well. As some one else posted earlier though, other than a half season with Reed RGIII never really had good TEs to work with.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
To be fair, that was also without RGIII.  Wasn't it Johnny Football and uh, Austin Davis? 

Yeah - RGIII is a slight upgrade, and Hue Jackson is a coach who uses TEs. Not feeling this logic. The numbers you posted are accurately stated, but likely meaningless.  
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I don't see his post as meaningless. It shows that even with awful QB play, Barnidge would've had 800+ yards and 6+ TDs which is essentially what Travis Kelce did last season. 

 
To clarify . . . JUST POSTING TRACK RECORD, NOT POSTING AN OPINION.

Total team TE production with Hue Jackson as an OC or HC:

2003 WAS: 21-183-0
2007 ATL 58-642-5
2010 OAK 72-765-5
2011 OAK 47-535-3
2014 CIN 80-604-5
2015 CIN 72-847-14

 
Rhythmdoctor said:
I don't see his post as meaningless. It shows that even with awful QB play, Barnidge would've had 800+ yards and 6+ TDs which is essentially what Travis Kelce did last season. 
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Yes, but that's mid-range, so you're right - "meaningless" only meant because they have a totally different coach and QB. 

I didn't want to say "irrelevant" because it sounded rude. :)  

 
Anarchy99 said:
To clarify . . . JUST POSTING TRACK RECORD, NOT POSTING AN OPINION.

Total team TE production with Hue Jackson as an OC or HC:

2003 WAS: 21-183-0
2007 ATL 58-642-5
2010 OAK 72-765-5
2011 OAK 47-535-3
2014 CIN 80-604-5
2015 CIN 72-847-14
Click to expand...
Fair enough - apologies, I wasn't trying to be rude, just pointing out that the QB and coaching situation has changed entirely from the #s you posted. 

If Barnidge hits any of those totals, he's going to be a decent pick this year anywhere after the 6th. 

 
Dr. Octopus said:
I actually see them as relevant as well in that I don't think RGIII is the kind of QB that will use his TE much. I think he likes to attack deep and doesn't scan the field well. As some one else posted earlier though, other than a half season with Reed RGIII never really had good TEs to work with.
Click to expand...
I agreed with this earlier and I agree with it now - I was the one who pointed out that RGIII seems to tuck & run more than make his 3rd/4th read. 

Wasn't there an article a few years back about how RGIII was seemingly incapable of making reads beyond his 1-2?  I thought that was right around the time he washed out in WAS. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Fair enough - apologies, I wasn't trying to be rude, just pointing out that the QB and coaching situation has changed entirely from the #s you posted. 

If Barnidge hits any of those totals, he's going to be a decent pick this year anywhere after the 6th. 
Click to expand...
It's not just the QB and coach. It's also the surrounding skill players. Adding Coleman, Pryor, and Gordon into the mix and completely replacing the 3 main receivers from last year (and IMO a significant upgrade at those spots) will impact things as well. The bottom line is, so much has changed in Cleveland that it's really just a guess at this point as to how things will play out.

 
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