Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
I have him on ignore, so I only see his posts when he's quoted. But I'm sure you know it's more than "running QBs", right?
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QB Lamar Jackson, BAL (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter massraider
- Start date
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
20 carries in a game for a qb...that's borderline too much for a rb.
I would be selling as well because there is no way he can take this abuse. You can't play based on injury predictions but there is no way he is even playing 3 years the way he plays right now. It's almost like the Ravens know this, which i have never seen before. They truly don't care very much about his health
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
He went 14-2 and beat the 49ers, Seahawks, Pats and Texans. He was 4-2 against playoff teams. I think it's clear what the ceiling is for Lamar. He may not get there. Some QBs choke or have bad luck in the playoffs (Romo, Marino, Fouts, etc). He also could get hurt, it's a risk of running the ball in the NFL. However, I think we know what the ceiling is.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
Im not saying he was mvp of the game. By the way people talk around here it’s like Ryan leaf was out there and he threw 5 ints. The entire team played bad and they ran up against an extremely hot team that also made the goat look bad last week. He didn’t have a great game for Lamar but he almost put the team on his back and did it himself. My point is he needs help.
Either way i thought he had a decent game considering.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Mahomes vs. Watson?
Wilson vs. Rodgers?
SF offensive creativity
Titans strange mojo?
seems like plenty to be interested in.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I also wasn't a fan of his attitude in the press conference, as he took the "we beat ourselves, they didn't do anything we hadn't seen before" stance, which is a way of not giving the team that just beat you any credit, but he's still young and has a lot to learn.
matuski
Footballguy
Hard to exist in a binary online world when you dont agree with one side or the other entirely.
matuski
Footballguy
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Lamar didn’t lose the game. Any time a RB runs for almost 200 yards on your D, a victory seems rather unlikely. Lamar isn’t perfect but his WRs are not that good. I think Lamar keeps his job in 2020.
Man In The Box
Footballguy
Andy Reid finally winning a Super Bowl is a pretty big one too. I’m sure it will be a big theme during today’s game.
matuski
Footballguy
It is obvious Lamar keeps his job, but it is also obvious that unless he develops as a passer - the NFL will catch up with him. Scheme-wise or physically - it will catch up to him.
Jayrok
Footballguy
I feel bad for Lamar in the sense that this loss will eat at him all off season when it probably shouldn't. They ran up against a hot team and weren't prepared for the physicality Tenn brought with them on both sides of the ball. Tenn took away, for the most part, Lamar's bread and butter in the passing game, the TEs. They caught a lot of passes during garbage time.
Baltimore was out coached and game planned last night. It didn't help that Ingram was limited.
Lamar looked rattled and his age showed a bit, but he'll mature and will be fine. They have the ingredients in place with win the SB. Lamar needs a possession WR. He has a down field threat and the TEs are very good. He could use a wideout who can win 50/50s.
The 4th down plays were odd as they kept trying the QB sneak. I know it worked all season but playoff football is different. A good bootleg with Lamar having to beat someone to the mark outside... I'd take Lamar any day. Release a TE and give Lamar a chance to choose what he wants to do. I don't question the decisions to go for it on 4th, but the sneak is a tough call when you do it every time.
I believe he learns from this loss and comes back strong.
Baltimore was out coached and game planned last night. It didn't help that Ingram was limited.
Lamar looked rattled and his age showed a bit, but he'll mature and will be fine. They have the ingredients in place with win the SB. Lamar needs a possession WR. He has a down field threat and the TEs are very good. He could use a wideout who can win 50/50s.
The 4th down plays were odd as they kept trying the QB sneak. I know it worked all season but playoff football is different. A good bootleg with Lamar having to beat someone to the mark outside... I'd take Lamar any day. Release a TE and give Lamar a chance to choose what he wants to do. I don't question the decisions to go for it on 4th, but the sneak is a tough call when you do it every time.
I believe he learns from this loss and comes back strong.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
perfect setup for him to fail again...
but yeah, I had that thought last night too after the Ravens lost, especially. i like Reid a lot, but seen this charlie brown-lucy kick setup way too many times with him...
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Jayrok
Footballguy
Sign of a young, intense player. He'll grow up and learn to lose gracefully and realize that there are other opportunities ahead of him. You can't win them all. Congratulate the other team and get back to work to improve your team.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I do like Mahomes. Watson is fun to watch as he's so unpredictable- makes some awful plays and then bails out. However, there offense is pretty lame without Fuller. It is tough to watch Nuk do nothing but run 5 yard outs while Watson runs around in circles in the backfield. I love Wilson but the Seahawks play like they think he's a weakness. Their ideal gameplan is to run the ball 40 times with Lynch and Homer to win 13-7. I feel great about Tannehill's resurgence but they don't tend to play the most exciting brand of football. San Fran is fine. It is creative how some times they give it to Mostert and sometimes they give it to Tevin Coleman. Kittle and Bosa are worth tuning in for though.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Script was perfect for Titan style. Get on top early, run and play aggressive defense.
rockaction
Footballguy
Yes. I think I outright said it to him once. He demurred. I can only do what one can and took him at his word. I think the worst thing for Jackson is the soft, really internalized bigotry that nobody talks about. If you criticize decision-making, what do you mean? If you say his arm is problematic, where does that come from? And so on. I don't know how or where to get into that, and I'd rather have his thread be about football than nonsense that should have been and could have been exploded from the jump.
rockaction
Footballguy
I'm personally looking forward to today more than yesterday. I just hope the weather in KC is temperate, because I'm not sure Houston wants to trot out ice sculptures out there.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Mike ClayVerified account @MikeClayNFL
Lamar Jackson had 508 yards (passing + rushing) in tonight’s loss.
8:28 PM - 11 Jan 2020
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I've actually seen posts that Lamar sucks based on this game.
Lamar Jackson had 508 yards (passing + rushing) in tonight’s loss.
8:28 PM - 11 Jan 2020
------------------------------------
I've actually seen posts that Lamar sucks based on this game.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Today's games seem on paper more interesting- I was just looking forward to Saints-49ers, Ravens-Chiefs rematches and we aren't going to get either.
Hot Diggity Dog
Footballguy
Jackson is still very young, not sure how he can be expected to match playoff intensity until he has gone thru it a few times. The Ravens needed someone else to step up and have a great game but injury and a case of the droppies from the receivers laid it at Jackson's feet to win it. He just doesn't seem quite mature enough as a football player to do that yet. Rooting for him though he is exciting to watch and comes across as a good guy.
GROOT
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Not sure if you're saying he sucks or that he should stop Derrick Henry?
If only he could've put up those gaudy Tannenhill numbers then ...
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I was wrong about Jackson -- he's a lot better than I thought he'd be -- and I absolutely love what the Ravens did with their offense. I'm not a "hater" and being critical makes me uncomfortable because IMO there are some folks out there who aren't doing it in good faith.
But great QBs are the ones who can throw when the other team knows you have to throw. And, in general, running QBs, or QBs built with gimmicky offenses around them, can't do that. IMO it's far more likely than not that to win a SB you'll have to throw when the other team doesn't care about your play action or if you want to get 7 yards in at least one game. Or against a world-beater defense.
Maybe he'll prove me wrong (I hope so -- what the Ravens did is genius if it works), but that was my assumption before Jackson got drafted and it'll be my assumption until it happens.
ETA: his ANY/A was just north of four. It's hard to win if your QB's throws are less effective than the average run.
But great QBs are the ones who can throw when the other team knows you have to throw. And, in general, running QBs, or QBs built with gimmicky offenses around them, can't do that. IMO it's far more likely than not that to win a SB you'll have to throw when the other team doesn't care about your play action or if you want to get 7 yards in at least one game. Or against a world-beater defense.
Maybe he'll prove me wrong (I hope so -- what the Ravens did is genius if it works), but that was my assumption before Jackson got drafted and it'll be my assumption until it happens.
ETA: his ANY/A was just north of four. It's hard to win if your QB's throws are less effective than the average run.
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Summer Wheat
Footballguy
L-Jack is young and did lose his composure and that is a concern for a QB. Still think he will be OK but is taking too many hits and is one big hit away from being average if he blows a knee out.
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fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Great for fantasy but he threw/ran 80 times. 508 yards really isn’t that much considering.
chinawildman
Footballguy
This being a FF site, ppl get too caught up in the accumulation of yds (FF pts) as a measure of effectiveness.
Jackson posted a QBR of 31.7... the 2nd lowest of any QB performance thus far in the playoffs (only McCown was lower)
I'm not saying he sucks based solely on this game, but it's silly to claim he acquitted himself well either.
matuski
Footballguy
Stats.
This game might be the ultimate demonstration of the gap between a player's value in fantasy and real life. The mistakes Jackson made with his arm, and the mistakes on those 4th and 1 efforts (his or the coaches) were much bigger in this game than his 500 yards.
I'll take Tannehill's 80 yards on game changing plays.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
He ran the ball very well. 20/143 - especially good considering there were a few QB sneaks in there where they just plowed him into the OL. His passing wasn't good. The Ravens are clearly lacking at the skill positions to help him out, take the next step.
GROOT
Footballguy
By no means Lamar does suck, but Tannenhill composure was better.
Passing
R. Tannehill 7-14, 88 YDS, 2 TD
L. Jackson 31-59, 365 YDS, 1 TD, 2 INT
Rushing
D. Henry 30 CAR, 195 YDS
L. Jackson 20 CAR, 143 YDS
Lamar can't do it all by himself, a superbowl will never be won this way
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matuski
Footballguy
As I said above.
Tannehill made the plays when he was asked to. The big moments did not result favorably for Jackson.
So go off for 500 yards on 60 throws and 20 runs, throw back breaking interceptions and fumbles and dance around behind the line on 4th and 1.
I will take 80 yards and touchdowns on big plays to win the game.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Just remember that he is a month younger than the guy getting drafted #1 overall this coming season.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
What receiver do you guys want to see the Ravens target?
FA: Ameri Cooper, AJ Green, Robby Anderson, Devin Funchess, Randall Cobb, Breshard Perriman, Manny Sanders
Draft: I assume a Lamb and Jeudy are gone but Higgins,, Ruggs, Shenault, Reagor, Jefferson, Hamler, Tyler Johnson, others?
What do you think about RB? Is an Ingram, Hill, Gus trio good enough for next year?
FA: Ameri Cooper, AJ Green, Robby Anderson, Devin Funchess, Randall Cobb, Breshard Perriman, Manny Sanders
Draft: I assume a Lamb and Jeudy are gone but Higgins,, Ruggs, Shenault, Reagor, Jefferson, Hamler, Tyler Johnson, others?
What do you think about RB? Is an Ingram, Hill, Gus trio good enough for next year?
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
I guess I would say the same thing about Justice Hill. Are we sure they need a 1st round RB when they could cheaply pair Justice with another RB? I don't think we are giving up on Boykin or Brown. Hollywood looks good and has lots of potential in a very specific role. After him, Snead and Seth Roberts are total duds. IMO there is room for Hollywood, Boykin and another marquee WR. Andrews is obviouly a really good TE but Hurst looks like a dud as a receiver. Is he a good blocker at least?
Shenault seems like a good choice IMO. He has the size Hollywood is lacking, can be used in lots of roles to make plays on that unique Ravens offense and given his physique, I bet he could develop into a very good blocker.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
You dismiss that list based on a game where he threw up 500+ yards.
You know Ryan Tannehill threw for less than 100 yards in the past two games and he went to NE and beat the GOAT where he threw for less than 100 yards. But his team won so he's better than the GOAT and league MVP? I have no idea where the Lamar hateraid is coming from but the brilliant Internets is all over it and it makes me sick.
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
I think yesterday's game was an anomaly. Everything went wrong for Baltimore and right for Tennessee. But I also think this was Baltimore's best chance to win it running that offense. The rest of the NFL will scheme better next year and force Lamar to throw the ball more.
There's also a reason most franchises don't want their QB running that much. It puts too much risk on your franchise player. Most teams want to minimize this risk. From an analytics perspective, there is probably a stat that shows a QB getting dinged up every 50 hits and outright injured every 100. If so, Lamar is on borrowed time. Seahawks fans used to get so frustrated that Wilson wouldn't start running the ball until the 4th quarter with the game on the line. This is probably done intentionally to minimize risk.
Lamar will eventually get a gimpy injury where he's not at 100% and he won't be able to run like he can. We will see if he can stay in the pocket and beat teams from there. I think if he works on this, he could be a great QB. If he doesn't then he won't.
There's also a reason most franchises don't want their QB running that much. It puts too much risk on your franchise player. Most teams want to minimize this risk. From an analytics perspective, there is probably a stat that shows a QB getting dinged up every 50 hits and outright injured every 100. If so, Lamar is on borrowed time. Seahawks fans used to get so frustrated that Wilson wouldn't start running the ball until the 4th quarter with the game on the line. This is probably done intentionally to minimize risk.
Lamar will eventually get a gimpy injury where he's not at 100% and he won't be able to run like he can. We will see if he can stay in the pocket and beat teams from there. I think if he works on this, he could be a great QB. If he doesn't then he won't.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Good Lord, people.
Baltimore isn't drafting a RB in the 1st round. They're fine with Ingram, Edwards, and Hill. They may pick one late to use as a ST guy.
They need help at interior OL, ILB, Edge. They could also upgrade at possession WR, though I'd like to see how they adjust the offense before putting a name to that.
Baltimore isn't drafting a RB in the 1st round. They're fine with Ingram, Edwards, and Hill. They may pick one late to use as a ST guy.
They need help at interior OL, ILB, Edge. They could also upgrade at possession WR, though I'd like to see how they adjust the offense before putting a name to that.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
You think no one is saying Lamar sucks? Might wanna look round the Internet. Ridiculous overreactions everywhere.
Over half the teams didn't make the playoffs and don't have a 23 year old QB.
League MVP, twice to the playoffs but it doesn't matter because we can't do anything other than ponder the loss.
That's OK. I'd take my chances with the kid and that coaching staff/FO/offense next year if I had that option.
chinawildman
Footballguy
I haven't watched a ton of ravens this year, but from what I saw the lacked a pass rush and speed in the front 7. They'll most likely go edge/LB early.
Todem
Footballguy
Yep...let’s re-evaluate Lamar Jackson who in is second year won the league MVP.....but since he and his entire team had a terrible game.....we need to re-evaluate.
This is insane hyperbole man. Seriously. It’s a joke. Right?
They were off for two weeks....let’s not count week 17 as a lot of backups played. And it showed last night. But despite being what looked like a rusty team to me they were in this game for almost 3 quarters but had a really bad night.
It happens. And it happens to great players and teams.
But.....we need to re-evaluate Lamar Jackson pronto coming off one of the greatest seasons for a QB ever.
Good luck with that.
Todem
Footballguy
Disagree. The Ravens were outcoached.....badly. Also they looked sluggish and rusty. Also....coaching. Incredible over reaction.
They ran into what is right now the hottest team in the playoffs. It happens.
Your takes are kinda laughable right now. They really are.
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Todem
Footballguy
This I can see. I agree as well. And this is part of growing and learning. Hopefully he matures more for the Ravens sake. He has what it takes. This is part of winning and losing. I see him getting more weapons around him in the passing game. Which in turn should reduce the need for him to run as much. The future is bright for the Ravens. This was a tough break for them. They had it all in front of them and blew it. It happens. It is sports.
But....we should re-evaluate the MVP.....right now. LOL!!!!!!!
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Catbird
Footballguy
Jackson and the Ravens are young and hadn't faced playoff intensity in the new system. They may have looked past the Titans a bit and then got stressed and anxious to do everything at once to come back. And huge credit to Tenn for the intensity, single-mindedness and sheer force they brought to the game. I think Lamar had a game like much of the team - slightly off target and played from stress. I don't think that means he is anything less than the league MVP. He has a great future. He had a lackluster game against a fierce defense and didn't rise up to lead his team to victory, despite good stats. I don't think it means any more or less than that. Everyone falls short somewhere except the team that wins it all.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Jackson got shook last night and didn't handle it well. Neither did guys who have rings and are probably going to the HOF like Yanda & Thomas.
He's 23. If that had have been Rivers - who hasn't won anything, ever, besides fathering children - the narrative would be about how much of a competitor he is and how he hates to lose.
chinawildman
Footballguy
I'd hedge my bets here. Historically running QBs in novelty offenses are like bubble stocks, they peak early and look unstoppable but typically fade over time. Statistically speaking, it's usually a sell high. In the case of the ravens, the Titans ran EXACTLY the same defense teams used to stop Roman/Kaepernick and it worked so it's not like this is anything new.
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