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Miami RB Situation (1 Viewer)

Hurl Bruce

Footballguy
With the Woodhead injury, I need some depth at RB.  I'm looking at Miami with Foster already breaking down.

Is Ajayi or Drake the guy to own here.  I know the real answer is to stay the hell away, but any Miami guys or those paying attention have a good feel for this?

 
Ajayi.

MoP, aka The Wolf of Wall Street, will be here soon to try to sell you on Kenyan Drake penny stocks.

Listen to him at your own peril. :D

 
I would have said Ajayi until the fumble yesterday. Now not so sure whether it will be him, Drake, Pead, Williams or any combination of the above.

 
I would avoid this
When RBs are dropping left and right, given the scarcity in the position there is value in any backfield. Just a matter of how aggressive you want to be in going after any given potential "next up" guy.

 
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Foster has a degenerative groin.

Agree with Buck above - RB is going to catch a lot of balls, especially the way Tannehill is playing. Spiller makes so much sense here for such a low investment.

 
Ajayi.

MoP, aka The Wolf of Wall Street, will be here soon to try to sell you on Kenyan Drake penny stocks.

Listen to him at your own peril. :D
:lmao:

Armondo Salguero Tweeted in game from Gilette that he wouldn't put Ajayi on the field again, it's the Drake show. I have a feeling if Foster is out for a while that the situation will be shared but that Drake is going to look better doing it. 

-Miami traded 2-3 picks up to go get Drake, there is a plan. Ajayi was a 5th round after thought by the previous guy Phibin, he rushed for 100 yds as a rookie(For the ENTIRE SEASON) and sprouted a 30+ page thread in this forum...preposterous I tell you.

-The only snake oil salesman in these threads are Jay Ajayi sour grapes, don't be fooled by these con men broadcasting from their 1 bunk Hilton down in solitary.

I will be grabbing Drake off waivers and begin reaping my rewards. 

Don't let Drake's ship sail away on you, now is the time to get on board.

Miami is 0-2, they will be 2-6 at some point, it's going to be a rookie fest or 2nd year fest as we get thru the season, more time will be allotted for Drake to see what he can do and if they have a RB they can rely on moving forward. If Drake isn't their bell cow by Week 6 then it's just a matter of time. I'm urging people to get out ahead of this. 

-Also, All Pro Center Mike Pouncey has been OUT the first 2 games, his return will help all RBs but also Drake will have even bigger holes to push thru, right now he looks good and he doesn't have the best in the business blocking in front of him.   

You just heard the word

 
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I have Ajayi and going to put in a claim for Drake as well just in case it goes either way.

MOP - I like your thoughts on Drake, The knock on him seems to be is that he's not an every down back despite his size (listed at 6'1", 216). Does team brass still feel that way, in your view?

 
:drive:

http://www.al.com/alabamafootball/index.ssf/2016/03/why_nick_saban_expects_nfl_tea.html

"Kenyan Drake is a unique style player," Saban said. "He's kind of a specialty guy who is a great receiver, especially as a mismatch guy out of the backfield, but he can also go out and run routes like a receiver. And he does have some potential as a running back, which is his natural position, especially on any kind of space plays.

"Bill Belichick and I were talking last night about 60-65 percent passing in the NFL right now. Well, that's certainly a guy you could feature in an offense like that."

I like to think I understand the positives, but can we agree on more aspects..

ie.  Guys in a TD Only League need to look elsewhere?

 
Ministry of Pain said:
-Also, All Pro Center Mike Pouncey has been OUT the first 2 games, his return will help all RBs but also Drake will have even bigger holes to push thru, right now he looks good and he doesn't have the best in the business blocking in front of him.   

You just heard the word
Mike Pouncey never named All-Pro.

Best in the business?  He ain't even the best center named Pouncey.  

 
Hopefully, the other Dolphins' backs know to stretch those muscles by standing with their hands over their hearts.

 
Ministry of Pain said:
:lmao:

Armondo Salguero Tweeted in game from Gilette that he wouldn't put Ajayi on the field again, it's the Drake show. I have a feeling if Foster is out for a while that the situation will be shared but that Drake is going to look better doing it. 

-Miami traded 2-3 picks up to go get Drake, there is a plan. Ajayi was a 5th round after thought by the previous guy Phibin, he rushed for 100 yds as a rookie(For the ENTIRE SEASON) and sprouted a 30+ page thread in this forum...preposterous I tell you.

-The only snake oil salesman in these threads are Jay Ajayi sour grapes, don't be fooled by these con men broadcasting from their 1 bunk Hilton down in solitary.

I will be grabbing Drake off waivers and begin reaping my rewards. 

Don't let Drake's ship sail away on you, now is the time to get on board.

Miami is 0-2, they will be 2-6 at some point, it's going to be a rookie fest or 2nd year fest as we get thru the season, more time will be allotted for Drake to see what he can do and if they have a RB they can rely on moving forward. If Drake isn't their bell cow by Week 6 then it's just a matter of time. I'm urging people to get out ahead of this. 

-Also, All Pro Center Mike Pouncey has been OUT the first 2 games, his return will help all RBs but also Drake will have even bigger holes to push thru, right now he looks good and he doesn't have the best in the business blocking in front of him.   

You just heard the word
If you take the Coach and GM at their word during the post draft presser, the plan was to free up Jarvis Landry from having to return punts/kicks, which is a wise investment.  Drake is a special teamer and gadget play guy, not a full time RB.  However, there is opportunity for spot duty here for sure because of his versatile skill set but I don't see any reason to think he would ever be a guy who could carry the load for any significant amount of time. 

 
Ahhh, missed that.  Deepest apologies.  
I'm with you, we pay him $10M a season, that's likely the most at his position or close to it. 

Pro Bowl 2013

Pro Bowl 2014

Pro Bowl 2015...

I saw you mention Williams, I was on his tip in 2014 when he arrived as an UFA. He has had opps but nothing special happens when he gets the ball in actual live play as exhibited with his yds per carry albeit a small number of touches. He has about 20 receptions the last 2 seasons, sporadic when he gets on the field. 

Drake will get a full shot before Williams IMHO. 

 
How much of a shot will Ajayi get?  I figure they have to split carries to start, no?  Ajayi was active in passing game as well.

 
The Dolphins did not trade up to select Kenyan Drake.

They did trade up 4 spots to select CB Xavien Howard in the second round but pick 73 which was used on Drake was an original pick. The Dolphins also traded with the Vikings for pick 86 after they selected Drake so they could draft Leonte Carroo.

While I appreciate homers perspective on this matter I also see that perspective being very negative and biased. There is enmity for Jay Ajayi from the press and the fan base that I do not think is fair. Because this has been the attitude and opinion of the beat writers for quite some time, they have a vested interest in events transpiring the way they have been reporting it and no longer have an objective point of view about the subject because of that.

Regardless of what anyone says the coach is going to do what he sees giving the team the best chance to win. For all the hate by fans and the press.. the coach keeps putting Jay Ajayi out there anyways and people like Salguero, Kelly, MOP, and whoever else wants to pile on does not matter, because none of you are the head coach.

Week 2 RB use

A Foster 10 snaps 15% (injured) 3 rushing attempts 9 yards 

J Ajayi 37 snaps 57% 5 rushing attempts 14 yards 4 targets 4 receptions 31 yards 9 special teams snaps.

K Drake  18 snaps 28% 2 rushing attempts 12 yards 1 TD 2 targets 2 receptions 6 yards 17 special teams snaps.

D WIlliams inactive/ was active in game one so if Foster is unavailable I would expect him to be active. Has returned kicks in the past and a good blocker, he had 19 special teams snaps in week 1

I Pead inactive

 
How much of a shot will Ajayi get?  I figure they have to split carries to start, no?  Ajayi was active in passing game as well.
Agree, Ajayi will see a decent amount of touches initially with Foster out...I don't know the extent of Foster's injury. 

I just feel Drake will play better in his 35% of the snaps vs Ajayi 65%?

 
If I had to gamble on one of the Miami backs, it would be Drake's Cakes.  The guy has talent and can be in the game not just on passing downs but also it appears he can be the two minute drill back.  To me, if you can be the RB in the two minute drill, you are probably also the RB when playing from behind - a situation Miami will likely be familiar with this season.  

Ajayi will be given some leash but he's not the coaching staff's guy and is already on thin ice.  If he has one more emotional blowout he could be finding himself on the bench or inactive even with Foster down.

 
The Dolphins did not trade up to select Kenyan Drake.

They did trade up 4 spots to select CB Xavien Howard in the second round but pick 73 which was used on Drake was an original pick. The Dolphins also traded with the Vikings for pick 86 after they selected Drake so they could draft Leonte Carroo.

While I appreciate homers perspective on this matter I also see that perspective being very negative and biased. There is enmity for Jay Ajayi from the press and the fan base that I do not think is fair. Because this has been the attitude and opinion of the beat writers for quite some time, they have a vested interest in events transpiring the way they have been reporting it and no longer have an objective point of view about the subject because of that.

Regardless of what anyone says the coach is going to do what he sees giving the team the best chance to win. For all the hate by fans and the press.. the coach keeps putting Jay Ajayi out there anyways and people like Salguero, Kelly, MOP, and whoever else wants to pile on does not matter, because none of you are the head coach.

Week 2 RB use

A Foster 10 snaps 15% (injured) 3 rushing attempts 9 yards 

J Ajayi 37 snaps 57% 5 rushing attempts 14 yards 4 targets 4 receptions 31 yards 9 special teams snaps.

K Drake  18 snaps 28% 2 rushing attempts 12 yards 1 TD 2 targets 2 receptions 6 yards 17 special teams snaps.

D WIlliams inactive/ was active in game one so if Foster is unavailable I would expect him to be active. Has returned kicks in the past and a good blocker, he had 19 special teams snaps in week 1

I Pead inactive
So every beat writer, journalist, media credential, plus the entire fan base even those who openly criticize the team(MOP), you know more than everyone else?

-I can be as pompous and arrogant as they come when I want to be Biabreak and you and I go way back and mostly good from anything I can remember. We probably have a few folks who don't even know who Tim Biakabatuka was and your log in/handle I have respect for you, please have a little respect for at least how some of us have arrived at our "feelings". Ajayi has been injured since he got here, showed a poor attitude when the team signed Foster although Adam Gase GUSHED over Foster so I might understand some of it. 

Don't make Jay Ajayi the guy you feel you need to hold the flag on, he's not worth it, the Miami RB situation is not worth it right now. But you are allowed to feel/act however you like but before this turns into a full blown Royal Rumble, let's ease it back some. I'll admit that the thought of Drake just coming in and starting is not realistic. You're correct, Miami must have moved around for Caroo so I might have mis spoken on that but it shouldn't ruin or change the fact that he was a productive player in college and is 6-1/215, he is built to handle a decent load. Maybe he won't get a lot of carries but I don't think Gase' offense id designed for any RB to be a bell cow 20+ type. 

I've said for a couple weeks now that the 2016 Miami RB spot might not be worth it. It's like going all in to win the blinds and antes, that's really the bigger message. But I still think Drake will have the most FF points a lot of weeks even if Ajayi technically has more snaps or even touches. Drake will be more productive on a per touch basis however that plays out. 

 
That is the problem MOP you are making declarations then expecting the reader to just take your words on faith instead of explaining why you feel that way.

This is the whole Dolphins culture right now it seems and success for the team is about the only thing I could see possibly changing that. 

Sorry about the loss to NE but Tannehill turned the ball over as did Landry early on in the game and their first 3 series were 3 and out. Yet the criticism of Ajayi is magnified from an already preconceived notion, while at the same time brushing over the other players mistakes that led to such a big hole in the first half.. This is called confirmation bias.

Now you very well may be correct that Jay Ajayi sucks and the echo chamber agrees because of course they are right and gonna say they told you so as they root for this guy to fail. 

The coaches continue to support the player. So this evaluation seems blind to that, even to the point where you question if the coach knows what he is doing.

 
That is the problem MOP you are making declarations then expecting the reader to just take your words on faith instead of explaining why you feel that way.

This is the whole Dolphins culture right now it seems and success for the team is about the only thing I could see possibly changing that. 

Sorry about the loss to NE but Tannehill turned the ball over as did Landry early on in the game and their first 3 series were 3 and out. Yet the criticism of Ajayi is magnified from an already preconceived notion, while at the same time brushing over the other players mistakes that led to such a big hole in the first half.. This is called confirmation bias.

Now you very well may be correct that Jay Ajayi sucks and the echo chamber agrees because of course they are right and gonna say they told you so as they root for this guy to fail. 

The coaches continue to support the player. So this evaluation seems blind to that, even to the point where you question if the coach knows what he is doing.
But Bia, Gase inactivated Ajayi because of a poor attitude prior to Week 1 when he needed him on the road at Seattle. That is confirmation fact and backs the opinions that Ajayi is in the doghouse to compound the fact he doesn't really light it up when he is on the field. Foster had a huge gain in week 1, showed even vs Seattle that he had an elite level of talent or skill that seems difficult to find. Obviously that guy gets injured and his body lets him down but he has great moves and a real awareness that is lacking in all the others backs right now wearing a Phins uniform. 

I'm not going anywhere but I'm not going to accept you brushing me off as un-understanding of the situation. I can't speak for all Phinsfans but I don't think many on here are going to be singing praises of any RBs right now because we KNEW letting Lamar Miller go was a mistake just like Olivier Vernon who we drafted and then was allowed to walk. You are dealing with a front office the likes you can't possibly imagine...or maybe you can. This FO is an out of control freight train of bad moves and player contracts. Look at the owner who I have in big quotes in the Phins thread, read thru there and see everything I posted from the minute the season ended. I go toe to toe with Miami fans and I never have to come back and apologize, almost everything I have posted has happened or unfolds over the course of many months. 

It's more than just a few beat writers. Dan Lebatard makes millions on ESPN with his 10-1 show an dhe does a special 1 hour local cast which to be honest is not filled with a lot of meat except when once in a while he starts talking about the locker room and front office, he doesn't talk much about their play on the field, he keep the focus right where it should be, lousy management and coaching from top to bottom. Gase was hand selected by owner Stephen Ross. Who knows more about hiring NFL coaches...Ross or President Mike Tannenbaum because Gase was not his guy. That kind of info you only get on Leb's show if you're lucky, the media down here treats all the teams pretty light and rarely calls any of them on the carpet so again I will agree with you that a lot of the media down here, so so coverage.

-THill and the offense made some mistakes but the defense not being able to cover anyone and allowing a back up QB and then a 3rd string QB to beat them is unacceptable. The Pats had Miami down 31-3 before the garbage time points poured in. Ajayi's fumble lead to the Pats going up 31-3 when we were driving, we lost 31-24, it was the deciding score. It was a brutal turnover in hind sight and nothing THill and Landry did in the 1st half changes that. THill and Landry and Parker were the only reason Miami was able to throw a hail Mary on the last play to potentially tie the game, what did Ajayi do for Miami on Sunday?  

-But my question then is where are you getting your info from? I don't talk about any team like I do Miami where I really tear in hard beyond what is happening with just the QB or the offense or a handful of skill players. 

I'm a fan, I have "faneelings" about it but I can assure you if this was Panthers talk I would not be overly critical if you were putting info out that I disagreed with. 

What about Ajayi on the field that you have seen so far has passed the eyeball test for you? I haven't seen it yet. And I hope Ajayi tears it up when his number is called, I can find 65,000 others that feel the same way walking into the stadium next week. But I can't find 65,000 that honestly believe that he is the answer to the Phins prayers at RB, I doubt I could even get 10,000 of them to agree to your passion for this player. I'll back down a tad on the Drake hype until we have more information but on the surface I still feel like he offers the most upside in whatever his role will be. 

 
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If there any positives for Ajayi it is that, after the fumble, he can catch the ball just fine. I'll be interested to see how he does W3 because he's got a great opportunity here.

 
I really wanted to ride this train (thought I did anyway) 

But the inactive status kinda confused me too much

Im kinda thinking ponchsox nailed this one

I would avoid this
You should see what owners 4th and 5th RB's are in a 16 team league.  Some of us are desperate

 
The thing is MOP is that you and many other Dolphins fans are blaming Jay for Miami not using Miller more than they did, and also for letting him leave in free agency. These things are not Jays fault at all, but that definitely colors the perspective you and other fans have about him in a bad way. Jay has done things he deserves criticism for, such as the fumble. There is enough of that to go around without also holding a grudge against him for how the front office handled Lamar Miller.

Yes Jay acted in an immature way and went from being the preseason start to inactive in week 1. The coach sent the player a message that he has to change with that action. Then following the game he says that for Jay today is a new day and in week 2 he was active and played of Damien Williams. So this drama is something the coach has put behind him for now, because the team does need a RB and Jay likely seems like his best option aside from Foster when healthy.

I did not see the game, however looking at the game logs, Jay was doing pretty well with his opportunities. He had a 4 yard run on 2nd down. Tannehill fuimbles on the next play but is able to recover it after losing a bunch of yards forcing the punt.

Miami's next drive is killed by Landry fumbling the ball on 2nd and 10.

Next drive Ajayi runs for 8 yards on 1st and 10. They convert the 1st down then Jay gets a 8 yard reception on 1st and 10. 

2 minute warning then RT throws an interception.

They get the ball back with 58 seconds to go, after a penalty Jay Ajayi has a 7 yard reception and goes out of bounds, giving them a 1st down and stopping the clock. They throw the ball to the other players and drive down for a FG.

The first drive of the 3rd quarter Miami gets a 1st down, then Ajayi is stuffed for a 1 yard gain. RT completes a pass to Parker for a 1st down then Ajayi has the fumble. Certainly not a good play. I did see this play and the defender does a nice job to strip the ball out. Jay needs to do better than that protecting the ball. He had some fumbling issues in college as well.

The next drive Drake has a catch for 2 yards on 1st and 10. After an incomplete pass on 2nd and 8, Jay Ajayi converts the 1st down with an 11 yard reception.They end up scoring a TD with Kenny Stills.

The next drive Drake has a 5 yard run on 1st and 10. Landry makes a couple receptions and they get a penalty end up scoring with Jordan.

The next drive Jay has a run up the middle for 1 yard and a reception of 5 yards. This drive was no huddle and Drake is brought in for the 7 yard TD which I saw Sims make two key blocks to help spring the play. Nice job by Sims there. Not sure if we should take this to mean Drake is the GL RB or not. Jay seemed to be their guy while doing no huddle earlier in that drive. 

The defense does not have very good defensive backs right now and NE is able to run 5 of 6 minutes remaining off the clock because they cannot stop them.

So while the fumble is clearly a bad play, Jay Ajayi did have some effective plays as well. Maybe he doesn't look as good doing that as the other RB look not doing much better, but the end result is the same. There was one instance of Miami using Ajayi on 3rd down of a drive that Drake had started. Jay seemed to be used more in hurry up situations. Drake did have a play in the game before Jay touched the ball.

As far as where do I get my information from? I get it from a lot of different places. I also do a lot of evaluation on my own, and I have seen promising qualities in Jay Ajayi's play at the college level that I have also seen glimpses of in the NFL, but not with enough consistency yet and still with too many mistakes. No denying there are reasons to doubt the player. I just don't think all of the reasons for doubting him are based on what he has done on the field. There are some good plays here. They are not all bad.

I do have a bias in favor of Jay Ajayi based on a lot of time that I have invested in watching this player and comparing him to other rookie RB prospects. The NFL is a whole other ball game, but I do think his talents are showing themselves at times. If I were to listen to the way you and others describe it, Jay Ajayi has never done anything good and should be sent to another planet as soon as possible. That doesn't seem like fair analysis of the player to me.

I am a Vikings fan, so yeah if you starting talking about that team I may have some more in depth information about players and that team than I do others. But I have spent quite a bit of time following the Dolphins, especially since they hired Adam Gase. I am not there watching training camp but I have read what has been said about Jay by people who have been. It is all negative and that to me is not fair analysis. 

Instead I am told that I cannot know about these players or this team because I am not there, and I will agree with that, because the people talking about the team do not go into detail or provide objective analysis about their observations. So even if you are all right and Jay sucks. I still will never know WHY you and the beat writers are right because none of you have done a good job of informing me of why Jay sucks that I can consider fair or reasonable.

It is the infallible eyeball test, which ultimately is like just saying "because I said so". That does not further discussion or inform the reader about why you feel the way you feel regarding this player.

 
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So, apparently they liked Ajayi and Drake and Williams so much that they got foster.  Maybe the answer is none of the above.  I'm guessing somebody will be good enough to settle in as the "guy" but I'm not sure it will have consistent value. IF anyone were to be able to do it, I'd bet on Ajayi as he is built for the job in all phases and can catch. I would be concerned Drake might be good but only for about 5-6 games before it catches up to him.  

 
Ajayi is the only player back there capable of producing decent FF points if he gets the touches.  None of these other guys really have 3 down capability IMO

 
Slapdash said:
Ajayi is the only player back there capable of producing decent FF points if he gets the touches.  None of these other guys really have 3 down capability IMO
I don't know if I buy that. I see some similarities between Drake and David Johnson, another pass-catching specialist who faced questions about his inside running and three down potential before he proved himself. In fairness, Johnson has 14 pounds on Drake at basically the same height and that's not insignificant. Drake is quite lean. When I watched his college clips, he seemed to really struggle against firm contact on interior runs and behind the LOS. He is best running to the edge, where he can use his speed and agility to gash people for big gains. I don't see him as an obvious three down back in the NFL, but he is a lot like Johnson in terms of his quickness, burst, receiving ability, and agility. If nothing else, I think you have to consider him as a waiver guy in redraft. I'm definitely thinking about trying to make room for him.

 
Biabreakable said:
The thing is MOP is that you and many other Dolphins fans are blaming Jay for Miami not using Miller more than they did, and also for letting him leave in free agency. These things are not Jays fault at all, but that definitely colors the perspective you and other fans have about him in a bad way. Jay has done things he deserves criticism for, such as the fumble. There is enough of that to go around without also holding a grudge against him for how the front office handled Lamar Miller.

Yes Jay acted in an immature way and went from being the preseason start to inactive in week 1. The coach sent the player a message that he has to change with that action. Then following the game he says that for Jay today is a new day and in week 2 he was active and played of Damien Williams. So this drama is something the coach has put behind him for now, because the team does need a RB and Jay likely seems like his best option aside from Foster when healthy.

I did not see the game, however looking at the game logs, Jay was doing pretty well with his opportunities. He had a 4 yard run on 2nd down. Tannehill fuimbles on the next play but is able to recover it after losing a bunch of yards forcing the punt.

Miami's next drive is killed by Landry fumbling the ball on 2nd and 10.

Next drive Ajayi runs for 8 yards on 1st and 10. They convert the 1st down then Jay gets a 8 yard reception on 1st and 10. 

2 minute warning then RT throws an interception.

They get the ball back with 58 seconds to go, after a penalty Jay Ajayi has a 7 yard reception and goes out of bounds, giving them a 1st down and stopping the clock. They throw the ball to the other players and drive down for a FG.

The first drive of the 3rd quarter Miami gets a 1st down, then Ajayi is stuffed for a 1 yard gain. RT completes a pass to Parker for a 1st down then Ajayi has the fumble. Certainly not a good play. I did see this play and the defender does a nice job to strip the ball out. Jay needs to do better than that protecting the ball. He had some fumbling issues in college as well.

The next drive Drake has a catch for 2 yards on 1st and 10. After an incomplete pass on 2nd and 8, Jay Ajayi converts the 1st down with an 11 yard reception.They end up scoring a TD with Kenny Stills.

The next drive Drake has a 5 yard run on 1st and 10. Landry makes a couple receptions and they get a penalty end up scoring with Jordan.

The next drive Jay has a run up the middle for 1 yard and a reception of 5 yards. This drive was no huddle and Drake is brought in for the 7 yard TD which I saw Sims make two key blocks to help spring the play. Nice job by Sims there. Not sure if we should take this to mean Drake is the GL RB or not. Jay seemed to be their guy while doing no huddle earlier in that drive. 

The defense does not have very good defensive backs right now and NE is able to run 5 of 6 minutes remaining off the clock because they cannot stop them.

So while the fumble is clearly a bad play, Jay Ajayi did have some effective plays as well. Maybe he doesn't look as good doing that as the other RB look not doing much better, but the end result is the same. There was one instance of Miami using Ajayi on 3rd down of a drive that Drake had started. Jay seemed to be used more in hurry up situations. Drake did have a play in the game before Jay touched the ball.

As far as where do I get my information from? I get it from a lot of different places. I also do a lot of evaluation on my own, and I have seen promising qualities in Jay Ajayi's play at the college level that I have also seen glimpses of in the NFL, but not with enough consistency yet and still with too many mistakes. No denying there are reasons to doubt the player. I just don't think all of the reasons for doubting him are based on what he has done on the field. There are some good plays here. They are not all bad.

I do have a bias in favor of Jay Ajayi based on a lot of time that I have invested in watching this player and comparing him to other rookie RB prospects. The NFL is a whole other ball game, but I do think his talents are showing themselves at times. If I were to listen to the way you and others describe it, Jay Ajayi has never done anything good and should be sent to another planet as soon as possible. That doesn't seem like fair analysis of the player to me.

I am a Vikings fan, so yeah if you starting talking about that team I may have some more in depth information about players and that team than I do others. But I have spent quite a bit of time following the Dolphins, especially since they hired Adam Gase. I am not there watching training camp but I have read what has been said about Jay by people who have been. It is all negative and that to me is not fair analysis. 

Instead I am told that I cannot know about these players or this team because I am not there, and I will agree with that, because the people talking about the team do not go into detail or provide objective analysis about their observations. So even if you are all right and Jay sucks. I still will never know WHY you and the beat writers are right because none of you have done a good job of informing me of why Jay sucks that I can consider fair or reasonable.

It is the infallible eyeball test, which ultimately is like just saying "because I said so". That does not further discussion or inform the reader about why you feel the way you feel regarding this player.
That's frustrating and connects to my previous posts. You want us to accept your POV based on drive charts?

Salguero is at every game and every practice, admittedly he probably ranks low in comparison to the other 31-32 lead journalists for each NFL team. 

I'm comfortable in my analysis, I watch every snap of every Phins game, you're entitled to your opinion and we'll see how this shakes out. I want to be clear though that I am not rooting against any of these guys, but even as a fan I try to be as objective as possible even to a fault among Dolphins fans. As I posted a coupe of times, I respect you as a poster and long time SP contributor, sincerely that's not fluff. We seem to not find a lot of common ground here but we'll know more in the coming weeks. If Ajayi succeeds I'll be the first...OK maybe 2nd person to say congrads and full steam ahead Phins! I just don't believe the % of that happening are as high as you might think they are. 

 
FBG subs know Matt Waldman and I follow his evaluation and opinion.  He has a weekly subscriber piece "The Top 10".  For you non subs I will copy and paste his take here on the Miami RB situation.  If you own Ajayi, hold onto him.

"Arian Foster (groin)/Jay Ajayi/Kenyan DrakeWe knew it was a matter of time before the baling wire would come undone for Foster. Ajayi has all the physical tools—and enough running back savvy—to deliver productive RB2 stats to fantasy owners. The issue is the Dolphins' offensive line. You'll probably have to pay RB2 value to land Ajayi when his realistic output appears more RB3/RB4-ish.  

Drake is a big-play athlete who runs out of control and doesn't understand the ins and outs of blocking schemes as he should. He was used as a space player at Alabama and consistently got hurt during his career. I believe much of this had to do him playing out of control and not understanding the nuances of the position. When players lean too hard on athletic ability without knowledge of what's unfolding in front of them, they make erratic choices that can lead to injury. "

 
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That's frustrating and connects to my previous posts. You want us to accept your POV based on drive charts?

Salguero is at every game and every practice, admittedly he probably ranks low in comparison to the other 31-32 lead journalists for each NFL team. 

I'm comfortable in my analysis, I watch every snap of every Phins game, you're entitled to your opinion and we'll see how this shakes out. I want to be clear though that I am not rooting against any of these guys, but even as a fan I try to be as objective as possible even to a fault among Dolphins fans. As I posted a coupe of times, I respect you as a poster and long time SP contributor, sincerely that's not fluff. We seem to not find a lot of common ground here but we'll know more in the coming weeks. If Ajayi succeeds I'll be the first...OK maybe 2nd person to say congrads and full steam ahead Phins! I just don't believe the % of that happening are as high as you might think they are. 
I would like to watch the game but I didn't renew rewind. So I have to work with what I got. I am only watching games live now or if I can find stuff online for example condensed versions of the Vikings games have been made available by sports fan in the Vikings thread. 

I am actually hoping that you or others can shed light on the situation because I am not able to see it for myself. However descriptions have not been detailed enough for me to see what you (or Dolphins writers) are seeing, by reading the commentary or articles.

I got so frustrated with the Miami writers I have just stopped reading them. Their statements have no substance and I am skeptical of their opinions/observations because of that. When the comment is that Jay sucks I don't want to ever see him play for the Dolphins again? Well why? What did he do so badly? Because of the fumble? Is that all that matters? Isn't there more to consider than just one play? When the statement is just that Jay sucks because I said so because I have been watching every single play and because I see that he sucks.. well this it does cause me to just believe what they are saying, in fact it causes me to do the opposite, not because you (or they) are incorrect, but because the observations are not described in such a way that I can get any value out of it.

Saying that Jay sucks, or saying he is not the answer doesn't tell me WHY he sucks or isn't the answer. What you are saying may be 100% spot on. I just don't know why it is because these statements lack substance.

If you were saying things like, Jay Ajayi is too slow, then provide an example of him being too slow that your comment is based on, then everyone reading that would know exactly what you mean and they can decide for themselves if that is right or not. Or if you are talking about him having poor vision or whatever the criticism is, provide an example, then everyone could get more value out of it, not just me.

In SSND thread for example I asked for preseason game 3 of Jay Ajayi so I could watch it. I spent time trying to describe what I see on each play mostly focused on Jay. I think I was being too nice in my evaluation of Jay here. I have some bias too. ZWK calls me out for that and describes a couple plays that he saw very differently from me. I was able to see those things because of ZWK's comments that I didn't see with my eyes, from my perspective.

How do you think Jay looked on his 8 yard run for example? What kind of play was it? How was it blocked? 

I mean even just talking about one play in detail can really say a lot of things about a player I think.

From what I have seen of Jay Ajayi.. it is kind of a mixed bag. I see some good things, but I also see some bad things as well. It's not like I think he is the best RB I have ever seen or something like that, he has flaws. For all of the college RB I have watched over the last 3 years, I would put Jay Ajayi in the top 10 of those players though. i have watched quite a bit of Damien WIlliams as well. Enough to see a noticeable difference in talent level between Jay and Damien. Jay is much more elusive than Damien for example. I like Damien WIlliams, I think he has some good traits. I think Jay Ajayi is quite a bit better than him however, while some may think they are maybe more the same. What is your opinion about that?

I haven't watched Drake as much as Jay and Damien There wasn't a lot to watch really as he didn't have that many plays. I also have a bias against all Alabama RB because of the blocking they enjoy and how Richardson turned out. I know one of Drakes best plays was mostly due to great blocking.

College is not the same as pro football at all. What I have seen are skills that I think translate to the pro game however. Jay has made some good runs in his still very short career in the NFL at times. Not consistently enough yet, but he also hasn't had enough opportunity yet to be evaluated as consistent. He has some bad plays too, as all RB do. Some times those bad plays are because the defense wins. Some times they are the RBs fault. Some times it is both.

I am definitely listening MOP. If you want to tell me why Jay Ajayi was no good in the game against the Patriots I am all ears. What you have said is that the fumble killed a dive and allowed the Patriots to score again putting the game out of reach. That is very bad. Any play that causes the team to possibly lose the game because of it is bad. What else did Jay do badly? Has he failed in pass protection? There are million reasons why you might think Jay is a bad player. I just haven't heard them yet.

 
I don't know if I buy that. I see some similarities between Drake and David Johnson, another pass-catching specialist who faced questions about his inside running and three down potential before he proved himself. In fairness, Johnson has 14 pounds on Drake at basically the same height and that's not insignificant. Drake is quite lean. When I watched his college clips, he seemed to really struggle against firm contact on interior runs and behind the LOS. He is best running to the edge, where he can use his speed and agility to gash people for big gains. I don't see him as an obvious three down back in the NFL, but he is a lot like Johnson in terms of his quickness, burst, receiving ability, and agility. If nothing else, I think you have to consider him as a waiver guy in redraft. I'm definitely thinking about trying to make room for him.
Because we have 2 tackles at guard and an UDFA at center, running between the tackles is useless anyway. Maybe using Tannehill's rushing ability combined with Drake's speed to the outside would work. Option anybody?

 
I agree with EBF on Drake.

Drake is the only fantasy difference maker here.  I don't see Ajayi helping anyshark with any fantasy games.  The one and only guy here with special ability, and who raises any prospect of coming in and lighting it up such that you've struck gold, is Drake.  Could be a huge swing no miss, but I'd rather swing for the fences with a guy who could matter.

 
It sounds like Foster may only miss a game or two at most. Not saying you shouldnt handcuff but I wouldnt go crazy here

 
I wouldn't be shocked at all to see Pead or Williams actually be the most productive guy, but given it's basically a 4-way mess right now even with Foster sidelined, I'm staying away until there's a hint of clarity... even in 16-team leagues.

 
I wouldn't be shocked at all to see Pead or Williams actually be the most productive guy, but given it's basically a 4-way mess right now even with Foster sidelined, I'm staying away until there's a hint of clarity... even in 16-team leagues.
Problem is that if you wait, you may miss out on the right guy.

Williams and Pead haven't shown much in their time in the league. Ajayi seems to have the ability, but not in good graces. Drake strikes me as the one who has the most potential upside. 

While others are trying to stash away Ajayi, Drake could be a good stash away for basically pennies. And even if Foster misses a game or two, he may have totally lost all effectiveness and is always a risk to re-injure.

 
Problem is that if you wait, you may miss out on the right guy.

Williams and Pead haven't shown much in their time in the league. Ajayi seems to have the ability, but not in good graces. Drake strikes me as the one who has the most potential upside. 

While others are trying to stash away Ajayi, Drake could be a good stash away for basically pennies. And even if Foster misses a game or two, he may have totally lost all effectiveness and is always a risk to re-injure.
Fair point... Drake isn't an option in my dynasty leagues and I don't play much redraft, so by all means, go after Kenyan Drake.  I guess I let my own league bias influence my take there.

That said, I'm skeptical Drake can be a 3-down guy...

 

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