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Belichick > Brady (1 Viewer)

Ghost Rider

Footballguy
Once and for all, it's plain as day.  

Belichick has solidified his position as the GOAT in NFL coaching.  

Brady is definitely still in the conversation of top tier all-time QBs, but this 3-0 start has certainly dinged his legacy a touch.  We are seeing that Belichick can coach them to a win with just about anyone at QB. 

#hottake

 
Yep.

You can't say that Rice or Manning or "X" is the greatest of all time - each era is different.  

But Belichick is.  In the most competitive landscape in NFL history he keeps winning with or without Brady.  His 10-6 season with Matt Cassel looks even more phenomenal given how bad Cassel actually was. 

 
well the broncos with osweiler beat the pats last year with brady so I think its more that the coaching in Houston absolutely sucks.

 
I've always been of the ilk that thought when Brady retires, Belichick will quietly find a way to exit right too.  this is the kind of effort that makes me think he will put in one more year without him.  with Garapolo, I can even see him going longer, but how many times, in the modern era, has a QB thrown for under 105 yards and won by 27?  It was an incredible effort by the Defense, and the O-line, two areas that probably cannot hold up like that for an entire year.

 
Once and for all, it's plain as day.  

Belichick has solidified his position as the GOAT in NFL coaching.  

Brady is definitely still in the conversation of top tier all-time QBs, but this 3-0 start has certainly dinged his legacy a touch.  We are seeing that Belichick can coach them to a win with just about anyone at QB. 

#hottake
I don't see any "ding" in Brady's legacy at all, but completely agree that there is no longer an argument about who the greatest Head Coach of all-time is.  Belichick was already the GOAT but this latest chapter cements it.  Argument-ender.

 
Brady + Gisselle >>> Bellichick. Who cares, neither is actually "greater", they are both great and both GOAT - in my opinion. It's like a symbiosis, but rest assured that Bellichick is not where he's at if Tony Eason is his QB the last 15 years. You could argue the same for Brady. It was a great game plan tonight and a dreadful performance from Houston. Brisette looked pretty bad on the long throws, looked pretty quick on the run. There are not a lot of very good teams in the NFL but the Pats are one of them.

 
When Brady has been out the three QBs that replaced him had a combined zero career NFL starts prior to taking over and the team has gone 14-5 in those games.  Two of those three weren't even any good as college QBs.  Heck one of them didn't even play QB in college.

I'll still contend that if the Pats' QB during Brady's ACL year wasn't a guy that had never started a game at QB even in college we'd probably be looking at something like 17-2 in those games.  If Cassel was just a random really bad backup QB they would have been better off.  He was just so raw it took him a while to get up to speed on not just playing QB in the NFL, but actually playing QB in a real football game. 

It's just unreal.

 
Brady + Gisselle >>> Bellichick. Who cares, neither is actually "greater", they are both great and both GOAT - in my opinion. It's like a symbiosis, but rest assured that Bellichick is not where he's at if Tony Eason is his QB the last 15 years. You could argue the same for Brady. It was a great game plan tonight and a dreadful performance from Houston. Brisette looked pretty bad on the long throws, looked pretty quick on the run. There are not a lot of very good teams in the NFL but the Pats are one of them.
Except Bellichick would either make Eason a pro bowler or likely find a QB in the draft or through a trade to get his guy.

Look at Homgrin back in the 90s with all the good QB play he was able to find even as backups that went other places to start as well as with two different teams going to the super bowl.

The top coaches will find ways to win and will not be reliant on finding one QB as you go back another generation to the 49ers also with top QBs seemingly growing on trees for these all time great coaches.

 
The trouble is, Belichick can "stand on the shoulders of giants" in a way that Brady can't.

Belichick is great largely because he's taken all the stuff that Marchibroda, and Bill Walsh,and Jimmy Johnson, etc. innovated and incorporated it into his performance, and has found ways to add to it here and there. Is Brady great because he benefits from QBing techniques developed by guys like Montana? Maybe, but I think the effect is far less for him.

Brady versus Montana is a more legit comparison, in other words, than Belichick vs. Walsh, which is essentially like comparing Windows XP to Windows '97.

(That being said.... the Patriots have succeeded without Brady, whereas Belichick disciple that's gone elsewhere has either floundered or been mediocre (much of the current Houston coaching staff is former Patriot guys). So there's that...) 

 
Belicheck is a genius and is playing advanced chess when others are still playing checkers.  Lose Rb, qb, other qb.. no worries the train rolls on.   He takes aaay what the other team does best every week   Truly amazing (and I can't stand the guy). 

 
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I've loathed the Patriots over the years. As an Eagles fan I may have held onto bitterness due to spy gate and the Super bowl loss but I have to hand it to him. He's the best ever. Granted, the deck was stacked a bit against Houston having to travel that far for a Thursday game but still...to win in such dominating fashion...it blows me away. Wasn't it two years ago that the Cardinals were like 11-1 and lost Palmer and the backup? They went to third stringer and they were toast. And I love Arians. 

I have to admit that it's harder to hate NE when I end up owning so many shares of their players LOL

 
Brady versus Montana is a more legit comparison, in other words, than Belichick vs. Walsh, which is essentially like comparing Windows XP to Windows '97.

(That being said.... the Patriots have succeeded without Brady, whereas Belichick disciple that's gone elsewhere has either floundered or been mediocre (much of the current Houston coaching staff is former Patriot guys). So there's that...) 
Brady has never had to face a Belichick Defense.  Joe Montana actually has.  In fact, Joe Montana's final game as a 49er was against Belichick's Giants in the 1990 NFC title game.  Belichick's game plan was raw abuse of Montana by just leveling him after every throw as much as possible until Leonard Marshall took him out with a devastating hit.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyV5eqBx7ws

He never recovered from that hit until he went to the Chiefs.  Belichick would probably abuse Brady too.

Also Belichick had the same game plan in the 1986 playoffs  of abuse the crap out of Montana and eventually Jim Burt knock Montana out of that game.

When you look at video of Montana in a whimpering heap on the ground, that would be Brady if Belichick ever faced him.

http://www.giants.com/videos/videos/Jim-Burt-knocks-out-Joe-Montana-in-playoff-game/8ca39b50-8702-424c-b25a-9489014ddd81

 
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Brady is still a top ten all-time QB, simply because he has remained very good for so long. He knows how to win. But with the success of Cassell, Garapolo, and now Bissett, his claim to be the all-time best, or even in the top five, is now very much in doubt.  Belichick has a system that is essentially plug and play. They haven't missed a beat with Brady in there. Compare it to the Colts when Manning had neck surgery and they went 2-14.

 
Belicheck is a genius and is playing advanced chess when others are still playing checkers.  Lose Rb, qb, other qb.. no worries the train rolls on.   He takes aaay what the other team does best every week   Truly amazing (and I can't stand the guy). 
This is how I feel as well.  I hate Belicheck.  I hate Brady.  I hate the Patriots.  I love watching the greatest coach of all time and one of the greatest QBs of all time though.  No matter how much I dislike them, I cannot argue with their greatness. 

I do not see how anyone doubts that Belicheck is the GOAT.  I get the Brady questions a little.  Belicheck has a lot to do with his success.  Would Brady have been great if he didn't land in NE?  Probably.  The guy always puts up great numbers and wins even when he does not have talent around him at WR or RB. 

 
Such a hot take lmfao. Same #### different day. Both GOATs not even debatable.
Really? I am pretty sure Rodgers ran away with that title several years ago. His efficiency at the position is through the roof. He hasn't played as long or on as good of teams, but he's clearly the best QB we've seen in our generation.

 
Send Brady to the 2016 Rams and that team goes 14-2.
You know, I was really hoping this was sarcasm, so I had to go check your profile for your favorite team just to be sure. Turns out in fact, it is NOT sarcasm. Therefore, the only response you leave me with is  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

 
You know, I was really hoping this was sarcasm, so I had to go check your profile for your favorite team just to be sure. Turns out in fact, it is NOT sarcasm. Therefore, the only response you leave me with is  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
I'm exaggerating for hot-take-itude's sake, but o/u would probably be set at 10.5. But if you don't think that is easily a playoff team with Gurley, Brady & that D, please. He did more with lesser WRs in NE. 

 
Brady is still a top ten all-time QB, simply because he has remained very good for so long. He knows how to win. But with the success of Cassell, Garapolo, and now Bissett, his claim to be the all-time best, or even in the top five, is now very much in doubt.  Belichick has a system that is essentially plug and play. They haven't missed a beat with Brady in there. Compare it to the Colts when Manning had neck surgery and they went 2-14.
Yep.  It's scary to think of how many rings they would have won if Manning was Belichick's QB for the last 15 years. 

 
Most all-time great QBs have had excellent coaches...Bradshaw/Noll...Staubach/Landry...Starr/Lombardi...Marino/Shula...Montana/Walsh...Favre/Holmgren...Manning/Dungy...Elway/Reeves & Shanahan...Graham/Brown...Fouts/Coryell...Aikman/Johnson...Brady/BB...it is not often a QB can achieve greatness without the help of a big-time Coach...

 
Most all-time great QBs have had excellent coaches...Bradshaw/Noll...Staubach/Landry...Starr/Lombardi...Marino/Shula...Montana/Walsh...Favre/Holmgren...Manning/Dungy...Elway/Reeves & Shanahan...Graham/Brown...Fouts/Coryell...Aikman/Johnson...Brady/BB...it is not often a QB can achieve greatness without the help of a big-time Coach...
So it seems like you're saying the greatness of the QB is almost always a direct result of the greatness of his coach?

 
He also took the hideousness of his game day attire to a new level last night, all part of the giant middle finger extended to Roger and the suits in NY. 

 
He also took the hideousness of his game day attire to a new level last night, all part of the giant middle finger extended to Roger and the suits in NY. 
I'm waiting for him in his post-game presser to slowly turn around the Gatorade bottles on the podium so the logos aren't perfectly facing the camera.

 
Brady is still a top ten all-time QB, simply because he has remained very good for so long. He knows how to win. But with the success of Cassell, Garapolo, and now Bissett, his claim to be the all-time best, or even in the top five, is now very much in doubt.  Belichick has a system that is essentially plug and play. They haven't missed a beat with Brady in there. Compare it to the Colts when Manning had neck surgery and they went 2-14.
Except the system last night in no way resembled the one they run with Brady. 

 
So it seems like you're saying the greatness of the QB is almost always a direct result of the greatness of his coach?
I think that has a big part of it and that is not a knock on the player...a QB can only reach his full potential in the right system with the right Coach...the NFL is not the NBA where talent can trump coaching...look at a guy like Archie Manning...how different might his career been if he played for Landry and the Cowboys instead of the Saints...put Terry Bradshaw on those Saints teams and he would probably be an afterthought right now...there is too much going on in this sport for a QB to play at a high-level without a good support system...  

 
Laugh all you want, but the numbers don't lie.
Which numbers are you referring to?

Yardage: 35th all time

TD Passes: 17th all time

4th Qtr comebacks: Tied for 102nd

Wins: 37th of all time

QB Rating: You got it here. Of course, if this is the measuring stick that really maters, Wilson is 2 and Romo is 3 of all time. 

 
Which numbers are you referring to?

Yardage: 35th all time

TD Passes: 17th all time

4th Qtr comebacks: Tied for 102nd

Wins: 37th of all time

QB Rating: You got it here. Of course, if this is the measuring stick that really maters, Wilson is 2 and Romo is 3 of all time. 
:rolleyes: reading comprehension isn't for everyone, I guess

It's cute how you use "all time" when I specifically said "He hasn't played as long or on as good of teams, but he's clearly the best QB we've seen in our generation."

Longevity <> greatness

The key stat I'm thinking of is adjusted yards per attempt. IIRC, Rodgers is head and shoulders above everyone else from this generation.

 
Yep, I've always thought this and last night just confirmed it. Dominating one of the best AFC teams without supposedly a top 5 QB of all time. Unreal, Belicheck is a genius. We'll never see it, but I would love to see how Brady would fare under a different coach. 

 
:rolleyes: reading comprehension isn't for everyone, I guess

It's cute how you use "all time" when I specifically said "He hasn't played as long or on as good of teams, but he's clearly the best QB we've seen in our generation."

Longevity <> greatness

The key stat I'm thinking of is adjusted yards per attempt. IIRC, Rodgers is head and shoulders above everyone else from this generation.
9 full games gabbert has played in san francisco

2259 11 7

36 206 2

Those same 9 games, rodgers

1963 13 6

28 197 3

GOAT

 

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