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12 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

So how many games are you thinking he will miss?

2-4 games if nothing else comes out. Just because his fiancee set him up on that audio. He probably was looking at zero games if that audio hadn't come out. Goodell will want to send a message though. 

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1 hour ago, Milkman said:

2-4 games if nothing else comes out. Just because his fiancee set him up on that audio. He probably was looking at zero games if that audio hadn't come out. Goodell will want to send a message though. 

I will take the over on 4 games.  I am thinking 4-8.

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12 hours ago, Stinkin Ref said:

look man....nobody is denying Hill has a bad past....he is a scumbag as far as that goes.....he admitted guilt and took his punishment....hopefully he will get more help and become a better father/husband....but the fiance has admitted to not only abusing the child but to lying and making things up and intentionally trying to shame Hill and set him up to make him look bad....if you choose to discount those things and think she has no role in the recent events so be it....not once has anybody said "it's all on her" so please don't try to twist things....the recent events and her admissions to what she has been doing indicate that not only does she play a major role in them, but she has done so with some premeditation....

 

Only folks “twisting” things are those doing mental gymnastics to forgive men for abusing women and kids, as you’re doing here with a clumsy sleight of hand.

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31 minutes ago, cobalt_27 said:

Only folks “twisting” things are those doing mental gymnastics to forgive men for abusing women and kids, as you’re doing here with a clumsy sleight of hand.

There you go again...lol..twisting....can’t help yourself I guess.....I’m not forgiving anybody of anything in this thread......not accusing anybody of anything either...never have, its not about any of that...just wanted to see the process shake itself out....many self righteous were quick to judge, speculate and convict without knowing any of the details about what has happened recently.....it appears they may have really mistaken what was going on behind the scenes....you seem to be on a mission to pound your chest for DV victims and try to make those just wanting to let things play out seem like some kind of bad people or something....

I get it....you don’t think she has any responsibility with what has happened here....no worries.....

Edited by Stinkin Ref

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10 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

So how many games are you thinking he will miss?

I think 6....

even if it turns out he didn’t do anything abuse wise....Rog wants to send the message that you don’t say things like what he said in the phone call...set up/provoked or not.....

Edited by Stinkin Ref

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13 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

I think 6....

even if it turns out he didn’t do anything abuse wise....Rog wants to send the message that you don’t say things like what he said in the phone call...set up/provoked or not.....

Set up.  Provoked.  

Her fault for his words and his actions.  

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25 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

There you go again...lol..twisting....can’t help yourself I guess.....I’m not forgiving anybody of anything in this thread......not accusing anybody of anything either...never have, its not about any of that...just wanted to see the process shake itself out....many self righteous were quick to judge, speculate and convict without knowing any of the details about what has happened recently.....it appears they may have really mistaken what was going on behind the scenes....you seem to be on a mission to pound your chest for DV victims and try to make those just wanting to let things play out seem like some kind of bad people or something....

I get it....you don’t think she has any responsibility with what has happened here....no worries.....

I think it’s significant cause for worry that your code of ethics is like a lot of men who foreclose responsibility on abusive behavior by blaming women.  This is an all too common and disgusting pattern and you are here on a public message board apparently with no  self-awareness to realize how ####ed up it is.

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5 minutes ago, cobalt_27 said:

Set up.  Provoked.  

Her fault for his words and his actions.  

 

She pre planned to record the phone call and get something to hang over him......she admits to trying to shame him and make him look bad....if you don’t think she was trying to push his buttons fine.... we get it...

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4 minutes ago, cobalt_27 said:

I think it’s significant cause for worry that your code of ethics is like a lot of men who foreclose responsibility on abusive behavior by blaming women.  This is an all too common and disgusting pattern and you are here on a public message board apparently with no  self-awareness to realize how ####ed up it is.

You are right...thats what I have been doing...I am a terrible person...

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Just now, Stinkin Ref said:

You are right...thats what I have been doing...I am a terrible person...

Kinda, yeah.  Charitably, maybe not a terrible person, but your views on blaming women and their “mental health issues” as a totally reasonable, understandable, justifiable rationale to abuse those women...those ideas and thoughts and ethics are quite terrible,

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6 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

 

She pre planned to record the phone call and get something to hang over him......she admits to trying to shame him and make him look bad....if you don’t think she was trying to push his buttons fine.... we get it...

Looks like she was successful in exposing the monster he truly is.  But, in your world, she’s the one with mental issues.

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9 hours ago, cobalt_27 said:

Only folks “twisting” things are those doing mental gymnastics to forgive men for abusing women and kids, as you’re doing here with a clumsy sleight of hand. 

I dunno, I would give your sjw rant above an 8.5.  You missed the dismount a little bit though.  It's entirely possible for him to be a POS and her to have a fair amount of culpability or guilt in the kid's situation as well, those two aren't mutually exclusive.

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Hill hit his fiancee and probably also his 3 year old son. 

Crystal Espinal allegedly also hit their son and tried to extort Hill to guarantee that she would be taken care of for life.  It was also reported that she might suffer from Munchhausen syndrome and may have hurt their son to gain attention. 

IF the allegations against her are true, then they're both s*** parents. It's possible for both of them to be bad. Often times victims of domestic abuse end up with some of the blame for what has happened, and that is terrible. But that does not mean that this is what has happened in this case, since even the officers who investigated said that BOTH PARENTS hit the child. 

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Some recent dynasty rankings have Tyreek as WR 20 and WR 35.  Where would you slot him, assuming that he's going to get a 6 game suspension this season? I think he's still got to be in the top 10, unless you provide a lot of weight to future suspension risk. This is his first offense against the NFL code of conduct policy, but I think they adjusted it so that DV can cause an instant permaban from the league. (Other offense of abuse was during college)

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2 minutes ago, steelers1080 said:

Some recent dynasty rankings have Tyreek as WR 20 and WR 35.  Where would you slot him, assuming that he's going to get a 6 game suspension this season?

If it was only a six game suspension I would not move him down the rankings much, if at all - perhaps a little bit due to potential future suspension risk.

It's tough to really rank him right now based on the uncertainty. The recent news has been somewhat positive for his outlook, but there's always the possibility that new evidence comes to light and the police investigation is re-opened.

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16 minutes ago, steelers1080 said:

Some recent dynasty rankings have Tyreek as WR 20 and WR 35.  Where would you slot him, assuming that he's going to get a 6 game suspension this season? I think he's still got to be in the top 10, unless you provide a lot of weight to future suspension risk. This is his first offense against the NFL code of conduct policy, but I think they adjusted it so that DV can cause an instant permaban from the league. (Other offense of abuse was during college)

I'm not a dynasty player but I am assuming missing 6 games is not really the issue in the grand scheme of things long term (that's the equivalent of a high ankle sprain or something during a year).....I think it all comes down to do you really think he is going to have more issues in this area that could lead to a lengthy suspension/ban...its not an addiction/substance abuse problem .....I'd roll the dice that outside of a short suspension this year, things go back to the way they were and you decide from there....he should almost be minding his P's and Q's more than any other player from here on out...which to me screams value anywhere outside the top 10 maybe....with Mahomes you could argue there is no other WR you would want moving forward for awhile...

Edited by Stinkin Ref

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My overall concern in all of this (and in many other threads) is the league's complete disregard to consistency in policing and enforcing its own rules and policies.

Here is a brief review of several other notable DV or child abuse related incidents over the past few seasons.

2011 - Chris Cook was suspended indefinitely after being charged for allegedly assaulting his girlfriend. He missed 10 games that season but was acquitted in court in the off season (claiming self-defense). TOTAL GAMES MISSED: 10 games.

2014 - Greg Hardy is charged (and convicted by a judge) of assaulting and threatening his girlfriend. However, he appealed and suited up in Week 1 of the season. However, he was deactivated and placed on the exempt list for the remainder of the season and missed 15 games. The charges were later dropped in the off season when the girlfriend did not appear in court to testify. The NFL suspended Hardy for 10 games, but that was later reduced to 4 games. TOTAL GAMES MISSED: 19 games.

2014 - Ray Rice originally was suspended for the first 2 games of the season then the infamous videotape surfaced and Rice was both released and earned an indefinite suspension. He missed all 16 games that season and never played again. Rice was charged with third degree assault but the charges against him were dropped when he agreed to attended counseling. TOTAL GAMES MISSED: 16 games (plus unable to find another team to play for).

2014 - Jonathan Dwyer was charged with multiple counts of aggravated assault against his wife and 18-month old child. The charges were later dropped due to insufficient evidence. He was placed on the exempt list for the final 14 games of the season. After the fact, the league suspended him for 3 games. TOTAL GAMES MISSED: 17 games  (plus unable to find another team to play for).

2014 - Adrian Peterson was first deactivated and later added to the commissioner's exempt list for using a switch on his 4-year old son. He was charged with reckless or negligent injury to a child and ended up pleading no contest to the misdemeanor charge. He ended up missing 15 games that season (9 paid, 6 on suspension). Peterson's indefinite suspension was overturned by an arbitrator in the off season. TOTAL GAMES MISSED: 15 games.

2015 - Rodney Austin was found guilty of 4 misdemeanor assault charges and received probation and ordered to complete an intervention program. He was cut by the Lions and received a 6 game suspension after the fact. TOTAL GAMES MISSED: 6 games (plus unable to find another team to play for).

2016-2017 - Josh Brown was suspended twice for DV concerns. He was arrested on a fourth degree DV charge IN 2015, yet he only earned a 1 game suspension almost 18 months later. Information surfaced that the police had been called 8 times and an additional 20 reports filed with the police. He was placed on the exempt list and later released by the Giants. After the fact, Brown was hit with an additional 6 game suspension the following season. All charges against Brown were dropped. TOTAL GAMES MISSED: 17 games (plus unable to find another team to play for).

2017 - Ezekiel Elliot was investigated for domestic violence but never charged with a crime. Upon completion of a year long investigation and internal findings that recommended Elliott not be disciplined, the NFL suspended him for 6 games anyway. Ultimately Zeke lost in court, dropped further appeals, and served his suspension. TOTAL GAMES MISSED: 6 games.

2018 - Kareem Hunt was placed on the exempt list (and was cut by the Chiefs) after video surfaced of him kicking a woman. He ended up not playing in KC's final 5 regular season games and their 2 playoff games. Hunt was not charged with anything but still was hit with an 8-game suspension in the off season. TOTAL GAMES MISSED: Will miss a total of 15 games.

Now comes Tyreek Hill, who in 2014 pleaded guilty to domestic assault and battery of his then girlfriend (now fiance) . . . but that was before he entered the NFL and thus was not disciplined by the league. There have been pages and pages of discussion of events from this year. However, I believe that Hill is the only player that previously had been convicted of or admitted to a crime before being investigated again for other DV or child abuse incidents.

People can judge on their own how serious they consider what Hill has or has not done and how that compares to what these other players did. Folks can speculate what discipline he will face and how many games he will miss (if any). But that's the run down of what's happened in the past. The average number of games missed by the 9 players I just outlined who were involved in DV or child abuse incidents was almost 13.5 games.

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This is basically Zeke 2.0.  Something probably happened; the civilian law says it can't punish him because there's no evidence.  The NFL will feel it needs to do something so smell a 4 to 8 game suspension, most likely 6 games when it's done.

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9 hours ago, steelers1080 said:

Hill hit his fiancee and probably also his 3 year old son. 

Crystal Espinal allegedly also hit their son and tried to extort Hill to guarantee that she would be taken care of for life.  It was also reported that she might suffer from Munchhausen syndrome and may have hurt their son to gain attention.  

IF the allegations against her are true, then they're both s*** parents. It's possible for both of them to be bad. Often times victims of domestic abuse end up with some of the blame for what has happened, and that is terrible. But that does not mean that this is what has happened in this case, since even the officers who investigated said that BOTH PARENTS hit the child. 

I like how it's allegedly that she did it but not that he did.

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6 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

I like how it's allegedly that she did it but not that he did.

You are not allowed to say that.... she was a previous victim so she gets a hall pass no matter what....

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Well she's a teacher. There's never been a teacher in the history of the world that laid a hand on a kid. It can't possibly be her. 

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Wish I had something to offer. But I slept through most of my ethics classes in 11th grade... and 12th. 

Edited by cloppbeast

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On 6/13/2019 at 7:04 PM, Hankmoody said:

I like how it's allegedly that she did it but not that he did.

Uhhhhh.....he admitted to it & was found guilty in court of doing it.  That’s why you don’t type allegedly, when you reference Hills history of abuse.  She has never been found guilty of abusing Hill or their child, but has been accused of such.  That’s why you type allegedly when referencing her as an abuser. 

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21 minutes ago, Twenty-Four Eighty-Four said:

So. We don't know how many games he'll be suspended. Where do you take him in redraft today?

5th

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46 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

Uhhhhh.....he admitted to it & was found guilty in court of doing it.  That’s why you don’t type allegedly, when you reference Hills history of abuse.  She has never been found guilty of abusing Hill or their child, but has been accused of such.  That’s why you type allegedly when referencing her as an abuser. 

He admitted to and was found guilty of abusing his son when exactly?

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1 hour ago, Hankmoody said:

He admitted to and was found guilty of abusing his son when exactly?

Try reading the post that YOU replied to. He admitted abusing his gf/fiancée.  He “possibly” hit his son.  Seems like a stupid hill you are trying to make a semantics argument in.

Edited by Bayhawks

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57 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

Try reading the post that YOU replied to. He admitted abusing his gf/fiancée.  He “possibly” hit his son.  Seems like a stupid hill you are trying to make a semantics argument in.

You're being pedantic.  Of course I was referencing the child abuse allegations only - unless you think the OP was also alleging that she punched and threw herself down those stairs?

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2 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

He admitted to and was found guilty of abusing his son when exactly?

He was talking about the incident in college.

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6 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

He admitted to and was found guilty of abusing his son when exactly?

I'd expect as much from someone who thought the Raiders were going to get a 1st for Carr 

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10 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

You're being pedantic.  Of course I was referencing the child abuse allegations only - unless you think the OP was also alleging that she punched and threw herself down those stairs?

If that’s what you were referencing, post THAT.  Don’t quote a post that CLEARLY indicates he abused his gf, and CLEARLY states it’s possible he hit his son, while at the same time saying she is alleged to have hit the son.  

The post you quoted was completely accurate, and you tried to twist it into “look how unfair we are being to Hill!  He’s called an abuser, and she’s only an alleged abuser.”

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I am so staying out of this.  I’m guessing I’d get banned expressing my thoughts about people here who twist themselves into knots and split hairs to defend an utterly despicable creature like Hill because they have him on their FF team.

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7 hours ago, Shawnky said:

I'd expect as much from someone who thought the Raiders were going to get a 1st for Carr 

They got less for him?  Didn't realize I was proven wrong and that they traded him for less.

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On 6/15/2019 at 6:25 PM, Bayhawks said:

Uhhhhh.....he admitted to it & was found guilty in court of doing it. 

I have skipped the last several pages.

Is this accurate or is it another misinformed exaggeration?

eta - if accurate this obviously is relevant to football.

Edited by matuski

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On 6/15/2019 at 8:14 PM, Hankmoody said:

You're being pedantic.  Of course I was referencing the child abuse allegations only - unless you think the OP was also alleging that she punched and threw herself down those stairs?

Some dark humour if nothing else of value in this.

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4 hours ago, matuski said:

I have skipped the last several pages.

Is this accurate or is it another misinformed exaggeration?

eta - if accurate this obviously is relevant to football.

No, this is not currently relevant.  To my knowledge, the poster was referring to Hill's prior.  Hill has repeatedly denied the current incident. If anything, the girlfriend has admitted to setting up the recording. They are both real works of art.  But, to my knowledge, the injuries came back consistent with a fall, not from an adult twisting the arm. 

Edited by Hairy Snowman
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6 hours ago, Hairy Snowman said:

No, this is not currently relevant.  To my knowledge, the poster was referring to Hill's prior.  Hill has repeatedly denied the current incident. If anything, the girlfriend has admitted to setting up the recording. They are both real works of art.  But, to my knowledge, the injuries came back consistent with a fall, not from an adult twisting the arm. 

but child services also found welts and bruises on him - although we do not know which parent (or I guess even if it was a parent) did it.

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10 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

but child services also found welts and bruises on him - although we do not know which parent (or I guess even if it was a parent) did it.

Assuming the reporting of all of this has been accurate, while we don't know how the child got bruises and welts on him, we do know that both parents did not deny spanking and using a belt on him. That's why I mentioned the ADP situation several times. Is there that much difference in disciplining a child with a belt vs. a stick? (I am asking because I am curious if people consider one worse than the other.)

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8 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Assuming the reporting of all of this has been accurate, while we don't know how the child got bruises and welts on him, we do know that both parents did not deny spanking and using a belt on him. That's why I mentioned the ADP situation several times. Is there that much difference in disciplining a child with a belt vs. a stick? (I am asking because I am curious if people consider one worse than the other.)

I work for child services in another state and it doesn't matter if it is a stick, belt, brick, or your hand.  We define the discipline as physical abuse when it leaves a mark or a bruise from the physical discipline.  

 

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So Uncle Rog.....what do we got:

1.    Past DV conviction: yes
2.    New conviction/charges of any type: no
3.    New Child Abuse: no
4.    New DV: no
5.    Threat on a recorded call: yes
6.    Disciplining child: yes
7.    Termination of Parental Rights: no
8.    Mother admitting to abusing the child in text messages and admitting to try and shame Hill: yes
9.    Hill denying abuse of any type in recent events: yes

(#6....while Hill has admitted to disciplining the child with spanking and using a belt in the past, it has not been shown that HE was the one who caused the markings and welts that CPS investigated....so those are two different things....he may have used spankings and a belt in the past, but didn't take it too far to leave marks....:shrug:)

(#5....terrified comment as it relates to the son: we also have to remember that she is the one that said that about the son and led the conversation down that road....honestly we have no idea if the son is "terrified" of him, those were her words ....and Hill's reaction at that point could have been more about having his buttons pushed in a pre planned recorded call and reacting to her instead of actually what she said about the son.....in the audio you can hear him reacting with comments like "unbelievable" as she is saying some of those things....Hill immediately talks about it being a respect thing...should he have said what he said about she should be terrified....no...)

there are probably many layers to some of the above, but again, we have to remember that "technically" Uncle Rog and his office will not have any access to the details of the CPS investigation.....any info he gets about that will be through "self report" by Hill when interviewed........he has publicly denied doing anything wrong, so not sure why that would change when he meets with Rog....I am not sure how it will go as far as getting information or interviewing the mother....there are rumors of her having a mental condition that leads to these type of behaviors, but not sure if that has been confirmed and how that would factor into any of this....

thanks to Anarchy for that historical post ..it helps put things in perspective a little....the only two that stick out a little for me are ADP and Zeke...but in Hill's case, unlike ADP.... Hill isn't going to be "charged with reckless or negligent injury to a child and end up pleading no contest to a misdemeanor charge"....and it doesn't look like he will be....and then in comparison to the Zeke thing....like Zeke, Hill is probably going to come out of this without any"charges" ....but it still "drew unwanted negative attention" to the league.....

so bottom line...."technically" all Hill has done wrong (this time) is the comment he made about she should be scared of him too....people freak out when you break it down like that, and this is not meant to defend Hill.....but when you try to figure out what Rog will do, this is what he is dealing with...although I know the NFL investigation will be more thorough and maybe able to get some idea of the CPS details through other sources, they really won't be able to reveal any of those details in their justification of any form of suspension....all of that should be confidential...

I think Hill and his team (all things considered) will agree that the comment itself is worthy of suspension and quietly agree to a suspension......4-6 games.....
 

 

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29 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

(#6....while Hill has admitted to disciplining the child with spanking and using a belt in the past, it has not been shown that HE was the one who caused the markings and welts that CPS investigated....so those are two different things....he may have used spankings and a belt in the past, but didn't take it too far to leave marks....:shrug:)

Unless that belt was made of spaghetti, it left marks.

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27 minutes ago, TheWinz said:

Unless that belt was made of spaghetti, it left marks.

I used to get hit with a strap.  It didn't leave marks. Comes down to how hard you are hit. 

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2 hours ago, Hairy Snowman said:

I used to get hit with a strap.  It didn't leave marks. Comes down to how hard you are hit. 

Same here. Hit many times with a belt. No marks what I got were more of a learning hit than a real whipping. 

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6 hours ago, TheWinz said:

Unless that belt was made of spaghetti, it left marks.

I got the belt a couple times.  No marks.

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