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Thanks everyone for the kind words. It was a very weak banning but I’ve done my time and I’m ready to move on.

Hopefully the irony of banning someone for defending themselves over the course of this particular holiday weekend  isn’t lost on those in power.

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On 7/3/2019 at 8:40 AM, Bronco Billy said:

 

With that, adios. It was great fun and a tremendous resource and social community - while it was fun.  Now?  Not so much one and likely soon not so much the others.

Sorry to hear that. Thanks for positive contributions while you were here. 

For those of us here that want to keep it on football and not taking shots at each other, thank you. It should be a great season. 

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1 hour ago, FBG Moderator said:

Sorry to hear that. Thanks for positive contributions while you were here. 

For those of us here that want to keep it on football and not taking shots at each other, thank you. It should be a great season. 

Well there is difference between a job done and a job well done. It's not fun to police anything but sometimes it's best to admit a mistake and move on.

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3 hours ago, FBG Moderator said:

Sorry to hear that. Thanks for positive contributions while you were here. 

For those of us here that want to keep it on football and not taking shots at each other, thank you. It should be a great season. 

If your rule is 100% football - you need to go ahead and delete every thread ever created in the Shark Pool.  All of them.  Ever.  Faust's copy and pasting would be the only thing left standing.

 

Edited by matuski

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If you rearrange the letters in his name, you get Hee Try Kill

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Reports circulating that news on Tyreek Hill could come as soon as this Friday, and that the news could be that he will not be given a suspension.

 

Can't wait for the Mike Florio's meltdown if this happens.

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2 hours ago, TheWinz said:

If you rearrange the letters in his name, you get Hee Try Kill

See ya in August, guy.

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2 hours ago, Young 8 said:

Reports circulating that news on Tyreek Hill could come as soon as this Friday, and that the news could be that he will not be given a suspension.

 

Can't wait for the Mike Florio's meltdown if this happens.

Finally, some news in here.  Thanx for that.

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On 7/6/2019 at 12:34 AM, Stinkin Ref said:

Said it several pages back....yeah KC suspended him from activities but have in a way stood by him around a few twists and turns when much of the general public and court of public opinion were clamoring for him to be released and questioning the Chiefs as a franchise.....just like many in here were......it would have been “easy” for them to cut ties a long time ago and nobody would have said a word....in fact they would have been “applauded”........until........... until it would have maybe been shown to have been a bad decision and they look like idiots for jumping the gun after things played out....but they didn’t make the knee jerk self righteous decision at the time and actually waited to see how things played out and gather the details before convicting and releasing him.....

All said while results of DCF investigation and assessment of his cooperation with league still pending.  

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https://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=2019-tyreek-hill-legal-landscape-before-training-camp

Really strong analysis here.  Lots to unpack and yet to be revealed, but near-certain expectation Hill misses time this year.  And he remains at significant risk of prolonged suspension.

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10 minutes ago, cobalt_27 said:

https://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=2019-tyreek-hill-legal-landscape-before-training-camp

Really strong analysis here.  Lots to unpack and yet to be revealed, but near-certain expectation Hill misses time this year.  And he remains at significant risk of prolonged suspension.

I'm sorry but FBG is not the ones to listen to on this situation. They have been as wrong as you could be from the beginning. They are 2-3 weeks removed from saying he was certain to be cut from the Chiefs. 

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14 minutes ago, Milkman said:

I'm sorry but FBG is not the ones to listen to on this situation. They have been as wrong as you could be from the beginning. They are 2-3 weeks removed from saying he was certain to be cut from the Chiefs. 

If it was one of the talking heads, sure.  I don’t recall reading anything that definitive, but I would have taken it with a grain of salt anyway.  What is notable is this contributor at least is a defense attorney and is at least cautious about discussing the parameters of possible outcomes, given his expertise in legal and DCF matters superimposed on assessment of Goodell’s prior history.

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Just listen to a local Kansas City Sports radio show, they are very upbeat from what their sources are telling them.  Tyreek possibly meeting with the commish this Thursday.  Use to be a big negative when going to see the commissioner, but after Zeke’s positive outcome, it’s not a guaranteed bad thing anymore.  

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1 minute ago, cobalt_27 said:

If it was one of the talking heads, sure.  I don’t recall reading anything that definitive, but I would have taken it with a grain of salt anyway.  What is notable is this contributor at least is a defense attorney and is at least cautious about discussing the parameters of possible outcomes, given his expertise in legal and DCF matters superimposed on assessment of Goodell’s prior history.

Ok but this article basically says 4 game suspension reduced to 2 is the most likely outcome. It discusses longer suspensions but says at this point those look unlikely. 

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25 minutes ago, Milkman said:

I'm sorry but FBG is not the ones to listen to on this situation. They have been as wrong as you could be from the beginning. They are 2-3 weeks removed from saying he was certain to be cut from the Chiefs. 

Who exactly and with what article are you saying said this? 

This article is the first article from Footballguys Staffer Drew Davenport on the topic. https://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=2019-tyreek-hill-legal-landscape-before-training-camp

He is a licensed practicing attorney with 17 years of experience in Criminal Defense and extensive experience dealing with child abuse, neglect, and the Department of Children’s Services. 

One of FBG's strengths can also be it's weakness as we have quite a few voices. For what we expect to happen from a legal sense, guys like Drew and Dan HIndery, Maurile Tremblay and Ari Ingel (all Footballguys Staffers and attorneys) are the ones to listen to. Of that bunch, Drew has the most experience with Children's Services. 

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And to be super clear, Drew is giving his best opinion on what he thinks will happen. At this point, nothing is certain. 

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14 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

Who exactly and with what article are you saying said this? 

This article is the first article from Footballguys Staffer Drew Davenport on the topic. https://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=2019-tyreek-hill-legal-landscape-before-training-camp

He is a licensed practicing attorney with 17 years of experience in Criminal Defense and extensive experience dealing with child abuse, neglect, and the Department of Children’s Services. 

One of FBG's strengths can also be it's weakness as we have quite a few voices. For what we expect to happen from a legal sense, guys like Drew and Dan HIndery, Maurile Tremblay and Ari Ingel (all Footballguys Staffers and attorneys) are the ones to listen to. Of that bunch, Drew has the most experience with Children's Services. 

It wasn't an article it was a comment in an article somewhere and it was more than one if I recall correctly. I'm just saying it doesn't seem like they have any good sources inside on this situation and might have jumped the gun. I can understand why with Tyreeks background. Just saying......

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48 minutes ago, Milkman said:

Ok but this article basically says 4 game suspension reduced to 2 is the most likely outcome. It discusses longer suspensions but says at this point those look unlikely. 

“Unlikely” wasn’t my takeaway.  I think it was as responsible conjecture from a guy who knows the ropes that Tyreek’s situation looks more favorable than it might have a month ago but, depending on the state of numerous variables still unknown to us, he is still at substantial risk of prolonged, if not indefinite suspension.

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2 minutes ago, cobalt_27 said:

“Unlikely” wasn’t my takeaway.  I think it was as responsible conjecture from a guy who knows the ropes that Tyreek’s situation looks more favorable than it might have a month ago but, depending on the state of numerous variables still unknown to us, he is still at substantial risk of prolonged, if not indefinite suspension.

We must have read a different article. No worries. Cheers!

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50 minutes ago, Milkman said:

It wasn't an article it was a comment in an article somewhere and it was more than one if I recall correctly. I'm just saying it doesn't seem like they have any good sources inside on this situation and might have jumped the gun. I can understand why with Tyreeks background. Just saying......

Ok. Please be a little more certain next time before you claim "I'm sorry but FBG is not the ones to listen to on this situation. They have been as wrong as you could be from the beginning." 

Thanks. This is our best take right now on the situation. It's not a certainty by any stretch. It's how we see it from someone with experience in this type of proceedings. 

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16 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

Ok. Please be a little more certain next time before you claim "I'm sorry but FBG is not the ones to listen to on this situation. They have been as wrong as you could be from the beginning." 

Thanks. This is our best take right now on the situation. It's not a certainty by any stretch. It's how we see it from someone with experience in this type of proceedings. 

Ok I will but to be clear I am certain it was an FBG article and they had a little section at the bottom on Tyreek by himself. It was the WR tiers article put out last week or the week before. I just can't find that article. 

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Without knowing anything about what has or hasn't been going on during this process, its almost impossible from anyone on the outside including legal experts etc. to zero in on an outcome....the article doesn’t really say anything that hasn’t been discussed...it just kind of puts a bow on it......Hill’s caseplan could have been very minimal....it could have been extensive...heck for all we know maybe the child has been returned to his custody already....but maybe not to the mother or vice versa....we also don’t even really know what the family dynamics were before all this happened...so what would “reunifying” really be... Hill may have had “custody” but how much was he really involved in the child’s life....are we assuming Hill and the mother lived together, were around each other all the time....2.3 kids a dog and a fenced in yard.....was Hill a long distance, in and out dad....or was he there every day, etc....when we talk of reunification, what does that really mean to Hill...is it going to be held against Hill in whatever decision happens soon if he doesn’t have custody back?.....is that fair to do....what was the context of his you should be scared of me too comment.....was it a physical threat or threat of him revealing information that she should be scared of....lots of stuff still unknown...just like it was at the beginning... the local KC radio guys seem to indicate they got some scoop that Hill could end up with a nice outcome....we will see...

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56 minutes ago, HULLOBUDMAN said:

Full audio of the recorded conversation is being played at 330 and 5 on 610 AM for anyone who is intersted.

Man, after hearing the full version, why in the world did the TV station only played the parts that they did other than trying to get ratings and probably was under the impression that the full version would never come out.  Listen to the full version and remember Tyreek has no clue at all that this is being recorded.  No wonder that his lawyers wanted the NFL to hear the full version.   Lucky for them they were able to get the full version.  But what if they weren’t able to get a copy of the full version, Tyreek would really be screwed. 

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4 hours ago, Kevrunner said:

Man, after hearing the full version, why in the world did the TV station only played the parts that they did other than trying to get ratings and probably was under the impression that the full version would never come out.  Listen to the full version and remember Tyreek has no clue at all that this is being recorded.  No wonder that his lawyers wanted the NFL to hear the full version.   Lucky for them they were able to get the full version.  But what if they weren’t able to get a copy of the full version, Tyreek would really be screwed. 

Because the media has zero professionalism nor accountability.  It's a travesty what these people get away with today.

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4 hours ago, Kevrunner said:

Man, after hearing the full version, why in the world did the TV station only played the parts that they did other than trying to get ratings and probably was under the impression that the full version would never come out.  Listen to the full version and remember Tyreek has no clue at all that this is being recorded.  No wonder that his lawyers wanted the NFL to hear the full version.   Lucky for them they were able to get the full version.  But what if they weren’t able to get a copy of the full version, Tyreek would really be screwed. 

It could almost be argued that releasing a heavily edited version is criminal. 

Edited by Milkman
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7 hours ago, Milkman said:

It could almost be argued that releasing a heavily edited version is criminal. 

I've been in the neutral "let's wait until we get all the details" camp but this is a stretch. You could maybe try to argue defamation, which then starts to get down the slippery slope of what is and isn't considered legally "false." Hill said what he said on tape. This is incontrovertible. It's not false. But by providing select clips in a certain context, did the station intentionally - and I'm not a lawyer but can dust off some comm law classes from Syracuse - and with actual malice release just one portion to serve their own agenda? That would be the key question.

So if there emails/text where people at the station hate Hill and are saying "Oh man this will really kill this guy's career now. Scumbag. Let's do it. Screw releasing the whole tape let's just do this portion who cares." The maybe there is some kind of defamation case, but it's so hard for public figures to prove I doubt it's even worth the time it took me to type the above.

All that aside, from the selfish FF POV, penny-on-the-dollar sellers must be really kicking themselves. Nothing like losing your season by your own hand before mini-camps even start.

Dynasty is a lot like the stock market. Participants have to realize that more often than not doing nothing is doing something.

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2 hours ago, tombonneau said:

I've been in the neutral "let's wait until we get all the details" camp but this is a stretch. You could maybe try to argue defamation, which then starts to get down the slippery slope of what is and isn't considered legally "false." Hill said what he said on tape. This is incontrovertible. It's not false. But by providing select clips in a certain context, did the station intentionally - and I'm not a lawyer but can dust off some comm law classes from Syracuse - and with actual malice release just one portion to serve their own agenda? That would be the key question.

So if there emails/text where people at the station hate Hill and are saying "Oh man this will really kill this guy's career now. Scumbag. Let's do it. Screw releasing the whole tape let's just do this portion who cares." The maybe there is some kind of defamation case, but it's so hard for public figures to prove I doubt it's even worth the time it took me to type the above.

All that aside, from the selfish FF POV, penny-on-the-dollar sellers must be really kicking themselves. Nothing like losing your season by your own hand before mini-camps even start.

Dynasty is a lot like the stock market. Participants have to realize that more often than not doing nothing is doing something.

Who knows when they had the unedited version or if they knowingly were playing the edited version but if they knew they probably cost him 20 million dollars. He might want to look into it. 

Hell all of us at FBG should bring a class action for the pain and suffering it's brought us. I want free coffee for a month. 

Edited by Milkman

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4 minutes ago, Milkman said:

Who knows when they had the unedited version or if they knowing were playing the edited version but if they knew they probably cost him 20 million dollars. He might want to look into it. 

Hell all of us at FBG should bring a class action for the pain and suffering it's brought us. I want free coffee for a month. 

According to the news lady that broke all the information about T. Hill in April...On April 25th she tweeted that she had the audio for a couple days, she only released it when he was not charged and her "source" wanted her to.

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30 minutes ago, smbkrypt24 said:

According to the news lady that broke all the information about T. Hill in April...On April 25th she tweeted that she had the audio for a couple days, she only released it when he was not charged and her "source" wanted her to.

Well I hope it was worth it. She should at the very least be fired and if I was Tyreek I'd sue them for the money I lost. I'd go after them. That's at the very least completely unprofessional and at its worst they were knowingly framing Tyreek. 

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That audio was neutral, didn't help him at all.  Makes the text messages that came out look fake and scripted.  Also her saying "I rode for you against CPS and that detective" isn't going to over well with the NFL.  Both parties have an incentive to lie or cover up anything that happened to protect themselves and Tyreek's payday.  We'll never know what really happened, but the NFL doesn't need beyond a shadow of a doubt to enact a suspension.

Edited by LakeCowboy

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34 minutes ago, LakeCowboy said:

That audio was neutral, didn't help him at all.  Makes the text messages that came out look fake and scripted.  Also her saying "I rode for you against CPS and that detective" isn't going to over well with the NFL.  Both parties have an incentive to lie or cover up anything that happened to protect themselves and Tyreek's payday.  We'll never know what really happened, but the NFL doesn't need beyond a shadow of a doubt to enact a suspension.

I don't know how the full audio impacts Hill.  I agree it does make the text messages look fake; but it also changes, somewhat, the context of the original audio clips that were released a while back.

There's also the fact that Hill denies his role in his previous DV conviction.  Goodell seems to be big on players acknowledging that they were wrong, so that might not fly well. 

Again, if this were a criminal case, I don't see Hill being found guilty (as evidenced by the decision not to continue the criminal case against him).  It's not a criminal case, though, and Goodell doesn't have to believe "beyond a reasonable doubt" that Hill committed child abuse or DV.  If he feels like Hill is involved, or wasn't fully cooperative/truthful with the NFL, he can suspend him.

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3 hours ago, Bayhawks said:

I don't know how the full audio impacts Hill.  I agree it does make the text messages look fake; but it also changes, somewhat, the context of the original audio clips that were released a while back.

There's also the fact that Hill denies his role in his previous DV conviction.  Goodell seems to be big on players acknowledging that they were wrong, so that might not fly well. 

Again, if this were a criminal case, I don't see Hill being found guilty (as evidenced by the decision not to continue the criminal case against him).  It's not a criminal case, though, and Goodell doesn't have to believe "beyond a reasonable doubt" that Hill committed child abuse or DV.  If he feels like Hill is involved, or wasn't fully cooperative/truthful with the NFL, he can suspend him.

I can't see Roger dinging Tyreek points for denying these old prior accusations in a private conversation to the one person in the world who was a witness to the actions he was accused of. When there are only two people in the elevator, they both know who farted.

Edited by tombonneau

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6 minutes ago, tombonneau said:

I can't see Roger dinging Tyreek points for denying these old prior accusations in a private conversation to the one person in the world who was a witness to the actions he was accused of. When there are only two people in the elevator, they both know who farted.

I’d agree with you, if RG’s past actions were fair.  I don’t believe they have been, so I have a hard time expecting that in the future.

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I'm not the best googler in the world. Any links to the full tape? I've found partials but not the whole thing.

ETA: Got it from the other thread.

Edited by kutta

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Wow. Just heard the whole tape and it paints Tyreek in a whole different light. Actually sounds like a pretty level-headed dude, all things considered.

I think @Stinkin Ref is owed an apology by a lot of folks in this thread. He was the most vocal about waiting for things to play out, and was shot at pretty hard by a lot of posters.

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4 hours ago, kutta said:

I'm not the best googler in the world. Any links to the full tape? I've found partials but not the whole thing.

ETA: Got it from the other thread.

:(

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Quote

Tyreek Hill's ex-fiancee Crystal Espinal has filed a petition saying he is the father of her recently-born twins, and that she is seeking full custody.

Espinal is trying to establish "supervised parenting time for (Hill) and child support." It's just the latest development in the pair's ongoing saga of legal issues. Espinal's friend released audio in April that seemed to implicate Hill in the physical abuse of the duo's son, though a longer recording released earlier this week actually had Hill denying the charges, as well as the 2014 allegation that he abused Espinal while pregnant. Hill met with league officials last month, with the meeting reportedly going well for the wideout. He is expected to report for Chiefs training camp later this month.

SOURCE: Kansas City Star

Jul 11, 2019, 9:53 PM ET

 

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4 hours ago, barackdhouse said:

Good lord. 

Looks likes Tyreek has totally distanced himself from his girlfriend.  Just needs to establish child support/custody now.  I'm sure most people are not aware that she did the same thing basically in 2015.    This is an article that it is mentioned in:

"Hill’s ex-girlfriend gave birth to a boy in July 2015 and sued for paternity."

Tyreek 2014 Charges Dismissed and Expunged

I guess they got back together sometime after the son was born.

 

 

Edited by Kevrunner
Added more information, link to article

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6 hours ago, Kevrunner said:

Looks likes Tyreek has totally distanced himself from his girlfriend.  Just needs to establish child support/custody now.  I'm sure most people are not aware that she did the same thing basically in 2015.    This is an article that it is mentioned in:

"Hill’s ex-girlfriend gave birth to a boy in July 2015 and sued for paternity."

Tyreek 2014 Charges Dismissed and Expunged

I guess they got back together sometime after the son was born.

 

 

Guessing they are not getting back after this.  Probably better for Hill's career.  Not so much the child/children.

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On 7/9/2019 at 9:28 PM, Hankmoody said:

Because the media has zero professionalism nor accountability.  It's a travesty what these people get away with today.

There was a time when we called it journalism. Then the professionalism, integrity, and accountability evaporated. Now it's just "media" which is quite accurate. It's outlets of mass dissemination of information without any intention of accuracy. 

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Saw this - someone put this out there - no idea how legit it is.  Lots of people that want to remain anonymous. 

I bought Tyreek the day after the news broke - on the super super cheap.  This has been a lottery ticket for me all summer - so of course I am biased.  

Check it out 

https://medium.com/@claywendler/sex-lies-and-audiotape-can-tyreek-hill-outrun-espinal-family-control-95ca27954911

 

 

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54 minutes ago, jesseasi said:

Saw this - someone put this out there - no idea how legit it is.  Lots of people that want to remain anonymous. 

I bought Tyreek the day after the news broke - on the super super cheap.  This has been a lottery ticket for me all summer - so of course I am biased.  

Check it out 

https://medium.com/@claywendler/sex-lies-and-audiotape-can-tyreek-hill-outrun-espinal-family-control-95ca27954911

You don't have to be biased to buy into the fact that low-income defendants, especially young black males, get shafted by our legal system.  I don't have an opinion either way because we'll never get any quality facts at this point but this happens every day in this country.

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On 7/12/2019 at 8:37 AM, Flying Elvis said:

There was a time when we called it journalism. Then the professionalism, integrity, and accountability evaporated. Now it's just "media" which is quite accurate. It's outlets of mass dissemination of information without any intention of accuracy. 

We can hope that one day the pendulum will swing back to a place in which the clicks go to those who were accurate and responsible in the past... In football analysis and otherwise. 

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1 hour ago, Hankmoody said:

You don't have to be biased to buy into the fact that low-income defendants, especially young black males, get shafted by our legal system.  I don't have an opinion either way because we'll never get any quality facts at this point but this happens every day in this country.

With a public defender,  I’m not sure too many people accused of what Tyreek was being accused of, would plead not guilty.  That plea agreement would be too hard to turn down, even if you were innocent.  Probation for 3 years, after that, the charges are dismissed.   No way I would fight those charges, even if I was innocent.  I’m not saying that public defenders are horrible lawyers, I just think, with their caseloads, that they are not able to give the time and resource that a private attorney does. And I’m not saying Tyreek is innocent either.

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7 hours ago, Kevrunner said:

With a public defender,  I’m not sure too many people accused of what Tyreek was being accused of, would plead not guilty.  That plea agreement would be too hard to turn down, even if you were innocent.  Probation for 3 years, after that, the charges are dismissed.   No way I would fight those charges, even if I was innocent.  I’m not saying that public defenders are horrible lawyers, I just think, with their caseloads, that they are not able to give the time and resource that a private attorney does. And I’m not saying Tyreek is innocent either.

If Tyreek would have moved on and stayed away from this girl I'd say it was 50/50 he was innocent.  There is zero chance he would have stuck around w/ this girl if he was innocent and got kicked out of OSU and his draft stock plunged for something he didn't do because of her.  I can see her sticking around if he did it for a pay day.

Edited by LakeCowboy
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