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1 hour ago, LakeCowboy said:

If Tyreek would have moved on and stayed away from this girl I'd say it was 50/50 he was innocent.  There is zero chance he would have stuck around w/ this girl if he was innocent and got kicked out of OSU and his draft stock plunged for something he didn't do because of her.  I can see her sticking around if he did it for a pay day.

It seems like one of them is abusive in the relationship, psychologically, physically, or both. From all the conflicting stories I'm not sure which way it goes. It doesn't surprise me that neither of them has left the relationship before now, because it's often quite hard for the abused to leave the abuser. No matter who is at fault, it seems like it's for the best that they not stay together. 

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12 hours ago, jesseasi said:

Saw this - someone put this out there - no idea how legit it is.  Lots of people that want to remain anonymous. 

I bought Tyreek the day after the news broke - on the super super cheap.  This has been a lottery ticket for me all summer - so of course I am biased.  

Check it out 

https://medium.com/@claywendler/sex-lies-and-audiotape-can-tyreek-hill-outrun-espinal-family-control-95ca27954911

 

 

oh my...

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26 minutes ago, steelers1080 said:

It seems like one of them is abusive in the relationship, psychologically, physically, or both. From all the conflicting stories I'm not sure which way it goes. It doesn't surprise me that neither of them has left the relationship before now, because it's often quite hard for the abused to leave the abuser. No matter who is at fault, it seems like it's for the best that they not stay together. 

What is the theory here on the original incident?  That Espinal choked herself out and punched her self in her pregnant belly?

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1 hour ago, FreeBaGeL said:

What is the theory here on the original incident?  That Espinal choked herself out and punched her self in her pregnant belly?

if you click on the link and read it it talks about possibly no evidence of being punched in the belly....and her possibly self inflicting the wounds to her face and lip....and why Hill may have taken the deal even if he didn't do it....

Edited by Stinkin Ref

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4 hours ago, LakeCowboy said:

If Tyreek would have moved on and stayed away from this girl I'd say it was 50/50 he was innocent.  There is zero chance he would have stuck around w/ this girl if he was innocent and got kicked out of OSU and his draft stock plunged for something he didn't do because of her.  I can see her sticking around if he did it for a pay day.

I was under the impression they got back together after their son was born.  I’m only basing that on the fact she sued him in 2015 in a paternity suit.  Not sure how soon after the birth did they started seeing each other again.  They did break up for awhile, not sure why he would have ever gotten  back together with her, maybe for their boy, who knows.  I’m not trying to defend him, hopefully, whichever one of them is lying, will get religious and feel the need to tell the truth.  

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1 hour ago, Kevrunner said:

I was under the impression they got back together after their son was born.  I’m only basing that on the fact she sued him in 2015 in a paternity suit.  Not sure how soon after the birth did they started seeing each other again.  They did break up for awhile, not sure why he would have ever gotten  back together with her, maybe for their boy, who knows.  I’m not trying to defend him, hopefully, whichever one of them is lying, will get religious and feel the need to tell the truth.  

That's the thing about getting religious, though.  You are forgiven for previous sins and the slate is wiped clean.  This isn't AA where you are supposed to apologize for your previous behavior.

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1 hour ago, LakeCowboy said:

If Tyreek would have moved on and stayed away from this girl I'd say it was 50/50 he was innocent.  There is zero chance he would have stuck around w/ this girl if he was innocent and got kicked out of OSU and his draft stock plunged for something he didn't do because of her.  I can see her sticking around if he did it for a pay day.

If only it were that simple.  He was 20 years old and in love (or at least in lust).  This is the mother of his unborn child.  We don't know why he stayed with her.  There's even the "but Tyreek, I told the prosecutor I don't want to press charges, that I won't testify".  Once a DA has the narrative available, facts don't matter.  Any DA worth his salt will wipe the floor with against a PD when he's got an initial complaint of domestic abuse backed by hospital records that look anywhere near supporting it. 

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5 hours ago, FreeBaGeL said:

What is the theory here on the original incident?  That Espinal choked herself out and punched her self in her pregnant belly?

The current narrative is that he told her he was going to break things off, and then later that night she showed up at the hospital with bruises on her face. One of the nurses (anonymous) said that they and other workers (but not all) thought the wounds looked self inflicted, and that there had been no punch to the stomach.

I don't know if any of that is true, that's just the most recent story to come out. At this point I have 0 clue what to believe so I don't want to condemn either person. One side says that Hill beat/choked his ex-fiancee at least twice and broke their kid's arm. The other side says that Crystal made everything up to try and trap him and was trying to trap other athletes prior to Hill until she got pregnant and that her family is trying to extort money out of him. I don't know which side to believe, or if it's some mix of both. At this point I've pretty much given up caring. 

My main point was that, him not walking away doesn't mean he's 100% guilty because people in psychologically abusive relationships can't easily get out.  He could still be 100% guilty, I just don't think that him staying is evidence of that.

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with training camp set to start next week...kind of have a feeling the Chiefs, RG, and Team Tyreek are all trying to come to an agreement (that won't be appealed) before anything is announced....part of me is wondering why KC hasn't forced the NFL's hand a little and "reinstated" Hill for team activities, etc.....I guess everybody is trying to play nice but at some point enough is enough....does KC think if they don't press the issue then it will help with a more positive outcome....?...I realize new details and angles seem to keep coming up, but you have to think at some point they need to poop or get off the pot...is there really that much information they don't have at this point...?...for KC and Tyreek, the sooner this gets resolved, the easier it gets as there is more time for things to be "forgotten" before the season starts...as the days go by, more and more attention starts ramping up on the NFL...

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52 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

with training camp set to start next week...kind of have a feeling the Chiefs, RG, and Team Tyreek are all trying to come to an agreement (that won't be appealed) before anything is announced....part of me is wondering why KC hasn't forced the NFL's hand a little and "reinstated" Hill for team activities, etc.....I guess everybody is trying to play nice but at some point enough is enough....does KC think if they don't press the issue then it will help with a more positive outcome....?...I realize new details and angles seem to keep coming up, but you have to think at some point they need to poop or get off the pot...is there really that much information they don't have at this point...?...for KC and Tyreek, the sooner this gets resolved, the easier it gets as there is more time for things to be "forgotten" before the season starts...as the days go by, more and more attention starts ramping up on the NFL... 

He's not suspended.  The team told him to stay home during OTA's, which is kind of a little like a de facto suspension, but there's nothing official out there yet.  I don't think anyone "has" to do anything at this point.

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19 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

He's not suspended.  The team told him to stay home during OTA's, which is kind of a little like a de facto suspension, but there's nothing official out there yet.  I don't think anyone "has" to do anything at this point.

The longer they wait the more it seems the suspension will be on the longer side. There is just no upside to waiting until we are into the preseason. 

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10 hours ago, LakeCowboy said:

If Tyreek would have moved on and stayed away from this girl I'd say it was 50/50 he was innocent.  There is zero chance he would have stuck around w/ this girl if he was innocent and got kicked out of OSU and his draft stock plunged for something he didn't do because of her.  I can see her sticking around if he did it for a pay day.

Sounds like you're lucky enough not to know people in highly disfunctional relationships. It gets even harder with kids involved. Your confident "zero chance" commentary is hilariously ignorant though. If only you were correct about people as a rule staying away from people who are destructive towards them. But you aren't. 

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1 hour ago, Hankmoody said:

He's not suspended.  The team told him to stay home during OTA's, which is kind of a little like a de facto suspension, but there's nothing official out there yet.  I don't think anyone "has" to do anything at this point.

Really, there's no official team suspension right now? That's odd, he's got the suspended symbol on MFL sites. 

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7 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Really, there's no official team suspension right now? That's odd, he's got the suspended symbol on MFL sites. 

https://www.upi.com/Sports_News/NFL/2019/04/26/Chiefs-deeply-disturbed-by-Tyreek-Hill-audio-WR-barred-from-team-activities/2471556289082/

"As soon as the draft concluded after the last pick I had the chance to call [Hill's agent] Drew Rosenhaus and we decided that at this time and for the foreseeable future Tyreek Hill will not take part in any team activities," Veach said. "We are going to gather more information were going to evaluate this information and we will make the right decision regarding Tyreek Hill."

Lots of that out there and I imagine Hill had no reason to argue it since there's no pay involved, so like I said it's a de facto suspension, but I think the NFLPA would take issue with a formal suspension with as preliminary as it was in May.  It's the equivalent of the Exempt List - "not suspended" but not welcome at official activities either.  The one I recall was that the team "asked" him to remain at home.  Since there's no pay involved it's kind of an irrelevant splitting of hairs.

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MFL or ESPN or whoever can list him as suspended if they want to. Doesn't mean anything has actually happened by the Chiefs or NFL. 

Not trying to make light of the seriousness of the domestic situation(s) involving Hill and his fiancee (and the kids and extended family and all of it), but one thing that might have made Hill stay with her so long is that she *might* be really, really good in the sack. Not trying to be crass or cheap about it, but he would hardly be the first ~20 year old to stay with a crazy chick because she could rock him. I know I know he is a successful athlete and can get anyone. That's probably true but just saying it could be a factor. Maybe she is irresistable. Ten cents. 

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I think he gets one game. Maybe none. You can’t punish a guy for doing nothing wrong besides fathering a child with a psycho. 

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In the coming days, the office of NFL commissioner Roger Goodell will announce whether Kansas City Chiefs wide receiver Tyreek Hill violated the league’s Personal Conduct Policy. If a violation is found, it would mean that Hill engaged in conduct detrimental to the integrity of, or public confidence in, the NFL. Such “conduct detrimental” would reflect the possibility that Hill was in some way responsible for suspicious injuries suffered by his three-year-old son earlier this year, or that Hill undermined the league’s image upon media publication of a recording in which Hill tells former his fiancée, Crystal Espinal, that she needs to be “terrified” of him, or both.

The Hill situation is among the more difficult personal conduct policy decisions for Goodell, whose choices on conduct matters have often generated controversy and occasionally spawned federal lawsuits. With Hill, an incomplete set of facts coupled with ambiguous family circumstances are beyond the capacity of Goodell to clarify. If Goodell offers factual conclusions about how Hill’s son was injured, Goodell would be vulnerable to criticism that he overreached and possibly interfered in an on-going legal matter.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/07/15/tyreek-hill-roger-goodell-possible-suspension-decision-chiefs

It's anyone's guess. My guess is 4-6 weeks.

Edited by Rookie_Whisperer

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2 hours ago, Rookie_Whisperer said:

In the coming days, the office of NFL commissioner Roger Goodell will announce whether Kansas City Chiefs wide receiver Tyreek Hill violated the league’s Personal Conduct Policy. If a violation is found, it would mean that Hill engaged in conduct detrimental to the integrity of, or public confidence in, the NFL. Such “conduct detrimental” would reflect the possibility that Hill was in some way responsible for suspicious injuries suffered by his three-year-old son earlier this year, or that Hill undermined the league’s image upon media publication of a recording in which Hill tells former his fiancée, Crystal Espinal, that she needs to be “terrified” of him, or both.

The Hill situation is among the more difficult personal conduct policy decisions for Goodell, whose choices on conduct matters have often generated controversy and occasionally spawned federal lawsuits. With Hill, an incomplete set of facts coupled with ambiguous family circumstances are beyond the capacity of Goodell to clarify. If Goodell offers factual conclusions about how Hill’s son was injured, Goodell would be vulnerable to criticism that he overreached and possibly interfered in an on-going legal matter.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/07/15/tyreek-hill-roger-goodell-possible-suspension-decision-chiefs

It's anyone's guess. My guess is 4-6 weeks.

I don't know who if anyone of those 2 is telling the truth.  I listened to the recording and all I heard was those 2 accusing each other of lying and abusing the child except he did threaten her.  One thing I just saw on Wikipedia is that Hill pleaded guilty to the 2014 incident.  His words in the tape denying any violence to her don't jibe with the guilty plea.

Only RG knows what he will do.  He is not consistent with things for sure.  However if he sees a possible loss of money/sponsorship for the league don't discount  him hitting Hill hard.  Hill has a prior DV conviction and the last time a player threatened violence against a woman verbally they gave the Ravens player 4 games and he had no prior acts if I remember correctly.  I think personally he gets a minimum of 6-8 games and if Goodell believes only her side he could still face a full year.  Don't discount the money side of the equation.  RG's main job is to fill the leagues coffers, that is why the owners keep him around.  With the CBA he doesn't have to act fair or use any consistent rational.  Today's political climate  with either party and the fact that they took the child from the home at one point and time along with the previous guilty plea are not things in Hill's favor.  Like I said follow the money.  So why should RG take it easy?  There is no upside for him if he does,  and previous rulings show he isn't always about fairness.

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11 hours ago, Rookie_Whisperer said:

In the coming days, the office of NFL commissioner Roger Goodell will announce whether Kansas City Chiefs wide receiver Tyreek Hill violated the league’s Personal Conduct Policy. If a violation is found, it would mean that Hill engaged in conduct detrimental to the integrity of, or public confidence in, the NFL. Such “conduct detrimental” would reflect the possibility that Hill was in some way responsible for suspicious injuries suffered by his three-year-old son earlier this year, or that Hill undermined the league’s image upon media publication of a recording in which Hill tells former his fiancée, Crystal Espinal, that she needs to be “terrified” of him, or both.

The Hill situation is among the more difficult personal conduct policy decisions for Goodell, whose choices on conduct matters have often generated controversy and occasionally spawned federal lawsuits. With Hill, an incomplete set of facts coupled with ambiguous family circumstances are beyond the capacity of Goodell to clarify. If Goodell offers factual conclusions about how Hill’s son was injured, Goodell would be vulnerable to criticism that he overreached and possibly interfered in an on-going legal matter.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/07/15/tyreek-hill-roger-goodell-possible-suspension-decision-chiefs

It's anyone's guess. My guess is 4-6 weeks.

Followed by an appeal and a two game reduction. 

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This story is insane.  I don't know what to believe.  If the conspiracy stuff is true, how horrible for Hill. 

I'm defacto taking Hill's side until I see some proof that he did anything wrong, and I even feel bad about my cynical take earlier that it was purely about optics for the NFL. 

If the NFL finds that there is a lot of doubt he did anything, but still punishes because optics and PR, the injustice only continues.  

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without knowing all the details that the league knows....just the twists and turns in here....it seems like a tough spot for the league...

bottom line:

1. suspension (of any length)  = Hill did something bad (this time)

2. no suspension = Hill didn't do anything bad (this time)

is having your kids removed from your custody in and of itself suspension worthy...?....it doesn't have to mean you abused them or their physical safety was in danger....it could mean they were in an environment that wasn't good for their mental and emotional well being at the time (ie: a very dysfunctional environment).....is it suspension worthy to be in a dysfunctional relationship/environment...?...kids get removed all the time for reasons that aren't "physical abuse"....

the general court of public opinion has already played judge jury and executioner here....for the most part....but it shouldn't be a hard sell for Rog to come out and say "after reviewing all of the information, we have found that there is no need to proceed any further at this time as a league in any matters involving Tyreek Hill"....and just leave it at that....because a lot of the things involved in this case are personal matters and information that the league will not reveal....Rog isn't going to go into some long explanation of details one way or the other....but the thing is, it will be a hard sell if he doesn't suspend.....so I think right now they  are trying to decide if in all of this they can actually find enough to say he somehow violated the conduct policy just so they can appease the masses that have convicted Hill already, no matter what.....but you would think Hill and his team will and should deserve that "long explanation" if suspended....we the public may not get it, but Tyreek and his team will.....and if they don't agree and really feel that Rog is doing it to "save the shield" that could be an issue and if Hill didn't do anything, a really crappy thing to do to somebody who was innocent....

the taped conversation and the "terrified" comment is an issue.... and will probably turn out to be enough for Rog to hand down (2) games and at least appease the masses that he was given something...while also not hammering Hill with something longer that would make it seem they think he is a monster or something.....the context of the terrified comment could have been that Hill was meaning be terrified because I have dirt on you.... all the lies, etc...but it still didn't sound good and Hill and his team may be willing to take a small suspension of two or less without appealing, etc....the thing is Rog is going to make a decision, but we will not get much if any reason for the basis of the suspension if there is one....or if there isn't one....

Edited by Stinkin Ref

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Are we sure the Chefs are going to activate him? Now where do we rank him for redraft?

 

 

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Just now, Ilov80s said:

Are we sure the Chefs are going to activate him?

No, I suppose they're gonna cut him now that he's cleared.

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Wow. I didn't honestly think Goodell would do the logical thing...

As someone who held instead of panic selling this is exciting. We can finally get back to how damn good at football he is. 

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3 minutes ago, Young 8 said:

No, I suppose they're gonna cut him now that he's cleared.

I didn't say that either. I am just asking should we be totally confident to rank him as would have if none of this dust up had occurred. Where do you rank him?

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4 minutes ago, TDCommish said:

Wish I hadn't ever read this thread months ago and traded him away 😭

 

I am glad I drafted a ton of him in best ball in rounds 4-6.

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Just now, Ilov80s said:

I didn't say that either. I am just asking should we be totally confident to rank him as would have if none of this dust up had occurred. Where do you rank him?

Top 5 WR at worst.

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Just now, Young 8 said:

Top 5 WR at worst.

For sure- one could make an argument he is WR1 in standard. My guess is the lingering "stink" of it all will cause him to go a bit later than he probably should. I think he should be WR3 after Hopkins and Adams. 

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2 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I am glad I drafted a ton of him in best ball in rounds 4-6.

Yupppp I’ve been scooping him up anywhere in the 4th the past couple weeks. Wish I was grabbing him when he was going past pick 100 a couple months ago.

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So glad this is over, now he needs to steer clear of Espinal and her family, make sure his children are cared for, and keep himself surrounded by people who are watching out for his best interests.

 

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Well I over-reacted based on the evidence at the time - and I'm honestly still not sure he's completely innocent, but that doesn't matter.

I was a seller in dynasty shortly before the tape was leaked, but I didn't panic sell as I'm still pleased with my deal. I thank him for helping me win the championship in that league though and as a football fan he'll make Sunday's more exciting.

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No Pulitzer for Mike Florio or Brooke Pryor.

I'm very sorry.

Edited by Young 8
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I own him in a lot of leagues. Sold him in one for Guice and Wentz. The guy I sold him to suddenly dropped him after the recording was leaked and Hill was picked up by another owner for $100 BB $$$$.

Bought him in another league straight up for Zay Jones. 

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Just now, Fear The Turtle said:

Wonder how much the Chiefs regret their first pick in April?

second round pick?

I think those that drafted him in rookie drafts regret it more - he can still be useful in real football at least.

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OMG.  Nfl vindicated Tyreek.  No punishment. 

The NFL seems more likely to punish than any other punitive body... I think this probably means he is actually innocent.  I feel really bad for him and sincerely apologize for jumping to conclusions. 

 

Edited by kittenmittens
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3 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

second round pick?

I think those that drafted him in rookie drafts regret it more - he can still be useful in real football at least.

Right, their first pick was a second rounder that they moved up for, I believe. I bet they had more pressing needs. Welcome back, btw.

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