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2 hours ago, BassNBrew said:

Add @Stinkin Ref to your payroll and he might share. Dude had mahommes as qb1 last year

Sure. We're always looking for great writers. @Stinkin Ref shoot me an email to bryant@footballguys.com with writing samples and links and we'll take a look. Thanks. Put "Contributor Position" in the title please. Thanks. 

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1 hour ago, Joe Bryant said:

Sure. We're always looking for great writers. @Stinkin Ref shoot me an email to bryant@footballguys.com with writing samples and links and we'll take a look. Thanks. Put "Contributor Position" in the title please. Thanks. 

Lol....please don’t let my brother from another mother pull your chain.....he’s just trying to pimp me out to get me out of the Mock Draft Forum and IBL forums which are the only places I really belong....I get in trouble if I venture out of there as you can see....plus my fantasy opinions would make your VBD head explode...and I use too many of these ellipsis things....:banned:

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16 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

Lol....please don’t let my brother from another mother pull your chain.....he’s just trying to pimp me out to get me out of the Mock Draft Forum and IBL forums which are the only places I really belong....I get in trouble if I venture out of there as you can see....plus my fantasy opinions would make your VBD head explode...and I use too many of these ellipsis things....:banned:

... keep those ellipses to 3 dots homie. That’s how it’s done.

but by all means, make heads explode around here - we could use a bit of that 😎

 

 

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3 hours ago, Stinkin Ref said:

Lol....please don’t let my brother from another mother pull your chain.....he’s just trying to pimp me out to get me out of the Mock Draft Forum and IBL forums which are the only places I really belong....I get in trouble if I venture out of there as you can see....plus my fantasy opinions would make your VBD head explode...and I use too many of these ellipsis things....:banned:

Thanks. 

So what's your take on how many, if any games Elliott and Gordon will miss due to a holdout?

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58 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

Thanks. 

So what's your take on how many, if any games Elliott and Gordon will miss due to a holdout?

:shrug:Jerry gets Zeke done because I think he thinks the cowboys are in a little bit of a window and there is no dominant team or teams in the NFC and Zeke is the straw that stirs the drink....Zeke misses zero games....he may do something similar to what Elway did with Chris Harris jr and just give him a “raise” to keep him happy this year and then renegotiate a new longer deal after the season...

Everybody thinks the Chargers are in a window as well but I really think the Chargers think they can win without Gordon and its not like Gordon is getting peanuts.....Ekeler and crew can get it done....Gordon is barking up the wrong tree but seems pot committed....I think this goes nowhere until week 10 or whatever when he needs to get his year in by reporting for the last six or whatever it is....but I think he is getting really bad advice as he doesn’t have the resume  Bell did.....I don’t see him getting anywhere close to what he thinks he is worth down the road and missing those games checks will start to hurt....but I have no clue and really don’t follow all the ins and outs of contract stuff

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On 7/31/2019 at 4:33 AM, Dr. Octopus said:

He’s better off saying nothing.

I would probably draft Hill in redraft,  it he went for $90/$500 in a 12-team dynasty start-up today, and that’s just way too high for the risk. IMO Hill is a problem looking for a place to happen. I’m a little shocked he wasn’t suspended over this, but that’s gotta be double secret probation at this point. I wouldn’t touch him in dynasty. 

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7 hours ago, Stinkin Ref said:

:shrug:Jerry gets Zeke done because I think he thinks the cowboys are in a little bit of a window and there is no dominant team or teams in the NFC and Zeke is the straw that stirs the drink....Zeke misses zero games....he may do something similar to what Elway did with Chris Harris jr and just give him a “raise” to keep him happy this year and then renegotiate a new longer deal after the season...

Everybody thinks the Chargers are in a window as well but I really think the Chargers think they can win without Gordon and its not like Gordon is getting peanuts.....Ekeler and crew can get it done....Gordon is barking up the wrong tree but seems pot committed....I think this goes nowhere until week 10 or whatever when he needs to get his year in by reporting for the last six or whatever it is....but I think he is getting really bad advice as he doesn’t have the resume  Bell did.....I don’t see him getting anywhere close to what he thinks he is worth down the road and missing those games checks will start to hurt....but I have no clue and really don’t follow all the ins and outs of contract stuff

Agreed. That seems to be what most people are thinking.  

Gordon results to question. Elliott results to question. 

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7 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I would probably draft Hill in redraft,  it he went for $90/$500 in a 12-team dynasty start-up today, and that’s just way too high for the risk. IMO Hill is a problem looking for a place to happen. I’m a little shocked he wasn’t suspended over this, but that’s gotta be double secret probation at this point. I wouldn’t touch him in dynasty. 

I think this is where I’m tending too. I only have him in one dynasty and I may move him if I can get the right deal. I’ll admit though that I’m a fantasy player who needs to be able to pull for the guys on my team. No judgment for folks who aren’t; that’s just me. And I still feel like parts of this stink and his recent quote only reinforces that for me. 

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1 hour ago, DAG said:

I think this is where I’m tending too. I only have him in one dynasty and I may move him if I can get the right deal. I’ll admit though that I’m a fantasy player who needs to be able to pull for the guys on my team. No judgment for folks who aren’t; that’s just me. And I still feel like parts of this stink and his recent quote only reinforces that for me. 

I’ve felt the same about players in the past. I like rooting for my players. It’s hard to root for a guy who (allegedly) terrorizes a toddler & his mother. 

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9 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I’ve felt the same about players in the past. I like rooting for my players. It’s hard to root for a guy who (allegedly) terrorizes a toddler & his mother. 

That's a real thing for a lot of people. I totally get it. Fantasy Football is supposed to be fun. Part of the fun is picking players you like to root for. I don't begrudge anyone that lets this factor into their decisions. 

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35 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

That's a real thing for a lot of people. I totally get it. Fantasy Football is supposed to be fun. Part of the fun is picking players you like to root for. I don't begrudge anyone that lets this factor into their decisions. 

It’s really disappointing - Hill was my mancrush last year, and headed into my first Dynasty start-up this year I was prepared to bid up to 20% on him.

then the off-season hit. 

He still went for $90/500, just not to my team. I spent a little more (overspent) to get Hopkins instead. 

It just woulda felt kinda icky cheering for the dude. Plus I can’t help but think with his history he’s one bad moment away from never playing again, which is also a factor in whether I wanna hitch my dynasty wagon to that pony, so there’s a bit of calculated decision-making there too. I may not touch him in redraft either. :shrug:

Ps - happy almost football season to ya @Joe Bryant. Good to be back. :pickle:

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
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I actually want to root for Hill.  I want him on all my teams. 

I want to root for a player who seems to be trying to keep his family out of the mud even if it means taking big PR hits in the media that are probably a big stretch at best. 

Most fans are out there calling him a PoS because of what is alleged, but there is a lot of evidence that there is a very long running and calculated smear campaign dating back to the college allegations that the internet media seems more than happy to harvest clicks from.  It's easy to say he admitted to it and condemn him, but the plea deal seemed a little too good to be offered if they thought a conviction was likely at trial.

He could most likely clear his name in the media by making his side of the story public, but he is taking the high road.  It seems likely to me that he showed this to the NFL, but not the media based on absolutely no suspension.  I think it's unfair how quickly we collectively judge, and there is enough chance that there really is something behind the scenes that flips this whole story the other way and makes Hill a victim in a lot of ways. 

If he did do something, I'm still rooting for him.  Not so much for football in that sense, but for him to turn things around and do what is right for his children and family. 

I didn't give enough benefit of the doubt when this started.  I regret jumping to conclusions without any real facts.  Maybe I'm overcomoensating for that now, or maybe I'm just being contrarian, but a lot of things stink about this whole thing.  I also believe there is no way the NFL, who only cares about PR, took a PR hit of their own to not suspend Hill without good evidence that he is innocent. 

Edited by kittenmittens
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1 hour ago, kittenmittens said:

I actually want to root for Hill.  I want him on all my teams. 

I want to root for a player who seems to be trying to keep his family out of the mud even if it means taking big PR hits in the media that are probably a big stretch at best. 

Most fans are out there calling him a PoS because of what is alleged, but there is a lot of evidence that there is a very long running and calculated smear campaign dating back to the college allegations that the internet media seems more than happy to harvest clicks from.  It's easy to say he admitted to it and condemn him, but the plea deal seemed a little too good to be offered if they thought a conviction was likely at trial.

He could most likely clear his name in the media by making his side of the story public, but he is taking the high road.  It seems likely to me that he showed this to the NFL, but not the media based on absolutely no suspension.  I think it's unfair how quickly we collectively judge, and there is enough chance that there really is something behind the scenes that flips this whole story the other way and makes Hill a victim in a lot of ways. 

If he did do something, I'm still rooting for him.  Not so much for football in that sense, but for him to turn things around and do what is right for his children and family. 

I didn't give enough benefit of the doubt when this started.  I regret jumping to conclusions without any real facts.  Maybe I'm overcomoensating for that now, or maybe I'm just being contrarian, but a lot of things stink about this whole thing.  I also believe there is no way the NFL, who only cares about PR, took a PR hit of their own to not suspend Hill without good evidence that he is innocent. 

Weird that you seem to know his side of the story that he’s chosen to keep hidden. 

That’s quite the leap of faith you’re taking with that benefit of the doubt, even in the face of the damning recording of his own voice. 

I’ll say this: if I was accused of terrorizing a little kid & a woman and could “clear my name” by “making (my) side of the story public” you bet your ### I’d be making it public & clearing my name.

respectfully, I disagree with your sweeping assertion of Hill’s innocence & can’t imagine what you’re basing this whole “clear his name” thing on. 

Each to their own - I’m not judge jury &’executioner,  but I hear him threatening a woman who had just told him that her some is terrified of him. 

I can sure as hell judge what I heard. I don’t need anyone in the media telling me anything to get all that. 

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3 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Weird that you seem to know his side of the story that he’s chosen to keep hidden. 

That’s quite the leap of faith you’re taking with that benefit of the doubt, even in the face of the damning recording of his own voice. 

I’ll say this: if I was accused of terrorizing a little kid & a woman and could “clear my name” by “making (my) side of the story public” you bet your ### I’d be making it public & clearing my name.

respectfully, I disagree with your sweeping assertion of Hill’s innocence & can’t imagine what you’re basing this whole “clear his name” thing on. 

Each to their own - I’m not judge jury &’executioner,  but I hear him threatening a woman who had just told him that her some is terrified of him. 

I can sure as hell judge what I heard. I don’t need anyone in the media telling me anything to get all that. 

I'm guessing based on your post that you have not heard the full audio or read deeper into this?

I'm basing it on the fact that several entities investigated this including law enforcement and from what we can tell found no wrongdoing on Hill's part. 

As for keeping it hidden, reports are that there is an ongoing custody lawsuit.  I would imagine that Hill hads legal advice saying to keep this sort of information private for those purposes at least.  If the craziest rumors involving the mothers family have any truth to them, there could be an ongoing law enforcement investigation into that which may preclude public sharing.  In either of those cases it would probably come out eventually. 

Reports are that he cooperated fully with the NFL and they didn't suspend him at all, which is telling IMO.  Law enforcement did not charge him.  The Chiefs presumably investigated this as well...  

 

I don't want to rehash this much further because most of it was posted previously in the past few months.  Won't blame you at all if you don't want to go back into this thread... 

Edited by kittenmittens
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1 hour ago, kittenmittens said:

I'm guessing based on your post that you have not heard the full audio or read deeper into this?

I'm basing it on the fact that several entities investigated this including law enforcement and from what we can tell found no wrongdoing on Hill's part. 

As for keeping it hidden, reports are that there is an ongoing custody lawsuit.  I would imagine that Hill hads legal advice saying to keep this sort of information private for those purposes at least.  If the craziest rumors involving the mothers family have any truth to them, there could be an ongoing law enforcement investigation into that which may preclude public sharing.  In either of those cases it would probably come out eventually. 

Reports are that he cooperated fully with the NFL and they didn't suspend him at all, which is telling IMO.  Law enforcement did not charge him.  The Chiefs presumably investigated this as well...  

 

I don't want to rehash this much further because most of it was posted previously in the past few months.  Won't blame you at all if you don't want to go back into this thread... 

All I know is no one pressed charges. 

happens a lot. 

Refresh my memory, but didnt Hill have a history of violence towards women? 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2682031-tyreek-hill-has-the-makings-of-a-star-but-also-an-ugly-past-none-should-forget

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Can we stop relitigating this with no new information? It's football season now. Just like with Mixon, at a certain point we need to all make a personal decision about whether we're going to own him or not...and then keep it to football until new information comes out that hasn't been combed through for 35 pages already. 

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7 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

All I know is no one pressed charges. 

happens a lot. 

Refresh my memory, but didnt Hill have a history of violence towards women? 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2682031-tyreek-hill-has-the-makings-of-a-star-but-also-an-ugly-past-none-should-forget

That article is almost three year old ffs.

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6 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Can we stop relitigating this with no new information? It's football season now. Just like with Mixon, at a certain point we need to all make a personal decision about whether we're going to own him or not...and then keep it to football until new information comes out that hasn't been combed through for 35 pages already. 

Hey all new here. And this is where I'm at, I just compartmentalize it all as much as possible. Like you said it's time for football and on that note I'm all in on hill for my teams if I can land him, I have him in one league so far and pretty pumped about it. 

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1 hour ago, Hankmoody said:

That article is almost three year old ffs.

Why does the age of the article matter in the slightest? 

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7 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Why does the age of the article matter in the slightest? 

Because recent information... from the mouth of the 'victim', indicates that the 2014 incident didn't happen at all.

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Just now, brewer said:

Because recent information... from the mouth of the 'victim', indicates that the 2014 incident didn't happen at all.

People change stories when $$$$$ is involved. 

Happens a lot. 

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4 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

People change stories when $$$$$ is involved. 

Happens a lot. 

Not sure if you are fishing or not, but on the same tape where the 'victim' tried to get Hill in trouble again, she essentially admits to fabricating the 2014 incident.

People also lie when money is involved, it happens a lot.

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4 minutes ago, brewer said:

Because recent information... from the mouth of the 'victim', indicates that the 2014 incident didn't happen at all.

Just googled around - I didn’t find anything that said she exonerated him, but I did find Tyreek Hill’s actual quote in his plea agreement where he plead guilty & admitted that he choked his pregnant g/f.

”“I — I did something that — I did something that I shouldn’t have done that night, which was I just let my feelings take — take control of me,” Hill told associate district judge Stephen Kistler in August 2015. “I wasn’t thinking. I just — I just reacted and hit her, choked her. I’m real sorry for that.”

Seems like he said he lost control & choked his pregnant girlfriend, but maybe my comprehension isn’t what it once was. :shrug:

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1 minute ago, brewer said:

Not sure if you are fishing or not, but on the same tape where the 'victim' tried to get Hill in trouble again, she essentially admits to fabricating the 2014 incident.

People also lie when money is involved, it happens a lot.

He plead guilty. He said he choked her.

not sure if you’re fishing or not, but I’m the one posting a quote from his plea agreement & you seem to be pulling stuff out of thin air. 

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3 minutes ago, brewer said:

Have a good day sir.

Do you have a link to the alleged exoneration? Or did you just make that up? 

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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

He plead guilty. He said he choked her.

not sure if you’re fishing or not, but I’m the one posting a quote from his plea agreement & you seem to be pulling stuff out of thin air. 

The recording is in this thread and all over the internet.  Feel free to find it if you haven't already made up your mind regards to Hill.

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Just now, brewer said:

The recording is in this thread and all over the internet.  Feel free to find it if you haven't already made up your mind regards to Hill.

Except he plead guilty in court and admitted losing control and hitting / choking her.

Why would he do that if he wasn’t guilty of doing that? 

““I — I did something that — I did something that I shouldn’t have done that night, which was I just let my feelings take — take control of me,” Hill told associate district judge Stephen Kistler in August 2015. “I wasn’t thinking. I just — I just reacted and hit her, choked her. I’m real sorry for that.””

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You honestly don't understand why someone would plead to a lesser charge even if they are innocent to avoid a trial which they may lose?

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1 minute ago, brewer said:

You honestly don't understand why someone would plead to a lesser charge even if they are innocent to avoid a trial which they may lose?

I honestly don’t know why anyone would admit to domestic battery of a pregnant women If they weren’t guilty of it, no.

so weird that this keeps happening to Hill, too - almost like it fits the exact same pattern of all domestic abusers. 

Very generous of you to give Hill the benefit of the doubt again & again though. The women were all lying, Hill was framed, but thought his best bet was to plead guilty to hitting & choking a pregnant woman? :o

I tend to be less generous. I believe in Occam’s Razor. The simplest explanation is probably correct. 

Also

  “When people show you who they are, believe them.”

~Dr. Maya Angelou

 

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...

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
*person has nothing to contribute, why bother engaging

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4 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I honestly don’t know why anyone would admit to domestic battery of a pregnant women If they weren’t guilty of it, no.

so weird that this keeps happening to Hill, too - almost like it fits the exact same pattern of all domestic abusers. 

Very generous of you to give Hill the benefit of the doubt again & again though. The women were all lying, Hill was framed, but thought his best bet was to plead guilty to hitting & choking a pregnant woman? :o

I tend to be less generous. I believe in Occam’s Razor. The simplest explanation is probably correct. 

Also

  “When people show you who they are, believe them.”

~Dr. Maya Angelou

 

If you got pulled over for doing 100 in a 55 and your lawyer got it changed to a non-moving violation with no points on your record but a big fine, would you take it so your insurance wouldn't go up or get points on your license? Same premise with a much more serious allegation. I don't understand why people find it so hard to believe this happens every day in the legal system but aren't open to the possibility it could have happened here. He had the choice to fight it with a public defender and possibly face jail time and ruin his career OR plead guilty (and yes that means you admit doing it in court) and get probation with the charge later expunged.

You (hopefully) have never faced jail time. You (likely) have never had a job that you could lose that would pay you $20m a year.

I am not saying whether he did or didn't do anything but it seems disingenuous to me when anyone says they cant understand how anyone would plead if they were innocent.

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6 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I’m well aware it’s two different women. 

I specifically said he has a history of domestic violence.

but please do continue embarrassing yourself by attempting to project. 🙄

🙄

I guess I'm not aware of the other woman.  Please, fill me in on this. 

Edited by kittenmittens

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Just now, HULLOBUDMAN said:

If you got pulled over for doing 100 in a 55 and your lawyer got it changed to a non-moving violation with no points on your record but a big fine, would you take it so your insurance wouldn't go up or get points on your license? Same premise with a much more serious allegation. I don't understand why people find it so hard to believe this happens every day in the legal system but aren't open to the possibility it could have happened here. He had the choice to fight it with a public defender and possibly face jail time and ruin his career OR plead guilty (and yes that means you admit doing it in court) and get probation with the charge later expunged.

You (hopefully) have never faced jail time. You (likely) have never had a job that you could lose that would pay you $20m a year.

I am not saying whether he did or didn't do anything but it seems disingenuous to me when anyone says they cant understand how anyone would plead if they were innocent.

This is a whole lot of speculation. 

I’m gonna go ahead and read Tyreek Hill’s own words stating that he lost control of his emotions and as a result hit & choked a pregnant woman & i’m going to take them at face value. 👍🏼

Because I wasn’t there. And all I know is what Hill said he did. And what he said he did matched what she said he did. 

And as an aside, that as first time offender the penalty he faced wasn’t as significant as you’re suggesting. Probation, a fine, maybe he’d have to enter a program. :shrug:

so your analogy is off as well. 

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1 minute ago, kittenmittens said:

🙄

I guess I'm not aware of the other woman.  Please, fill me in on this. 

Better to just put you on ignore. 

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@Hot Sauce Guy, have you listened to the full tape that’s out now? If not, you should give it a listen. I felt pretty much the same way you do, then I listened to the tape and it changed my perception of the incident you’re talking about.

I agree he’s probably no saint, but I also think he comes off much more level headed than I expected, and his “girlfriend” actually is the one that needs a lot of help.

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I really don’t see the need to rehash the whole guilt:innocence angle anymore. He was cleared by the NFL and only if he does something else will it matter.

At this point you can say you don’t like the risk (whether it’s dynasty or redraft) based on possible bad actions in the future but it’s time to move on. There was like 35 pages discussing the type of person he is/was/will be already. Now we should only be discussing projections, news, ADP etc.

As far as whether he had past bad acts there’s a tremendous amount of bias on both sides at this point. No use in trying to change anyone’s mind - we’re a month from the start of the season. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

This is a whole lot of speculation. 

I’m gonna go ahead and read Tyreek Hill’s own words stating that he lost control of his emotions and as a result hit & choked a pregnant woman & i’m going to take them at face value. 👍🏼

Because I wasn’t there. And all I know is what Hill said he did. And what he said he did matched what she said he did. 

And as an aside, that as first time offender the penalty he faced wasn’t as significant as you’re suggesting. Probation, a fine, maybe he’d have to enter a program. :shrug:

so your analogy is off as well. 

I get it and I am fine that you thinking he did it. I am not trying to change anyone's mind since most people are already set one way or another without knowing the full set of facts (none of us do).  Again, I am taking issue with anyone that says they cant understand why an innocent person would plead.

His penalty pleading WAS probation, a fine and entering a program. It seems unlikely to me that it would have been the same if he was found guilty.  It sure seems like a simple google search will tell you that OK law would have been much more serious than what you think may have happened.

 

https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/criminal-defense/domestic-violence/oklahoma-domestic-violence-laws-charges-penalt

Domestic abuse committed against a pregnant woman

If the crime of domestic abuse is committed against a pregnant woman and the offender knew of the pregnancy, the penalties can be extremely harsh. For a first offense, the crime is a misdemeanor punishable by up to one year in jail. If the offense is a second or subsequent conviction, the crime is a felony punishable by up to ten years in prison. If the mother miscarries as a result of the domestic abuse, however, or there is any injury to the unborn child, the crime is a felony for which the offender can be sentenced up to twenty years in prison.

Domestic abuse by strangulation

If a defendant commits assault and battery by strangulation or attempted strangulation against a domestic victim listed above, with intent to cause great bodily harm, he is guilty of a felony. A first offense of this crime is punishable by one to three years in prison or a fine up to $3,000, or both. The penalty for a second or subsequent offense is three to ten years in prison or a fine up to $20,000, or both.

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5 minutes ago, HULLOBUDMAN said:

I get it and I am fine that you thinking he did it. I am not trying to change anyone's mind since most people are already set one way or another without knowing the full set of facts (none of us do).  Again, I am taking issue with anyone that says they cant understand why an innocent person would plead.

His penalty pleading WAS probation, a fine and entering a program. It seems unlikely to me that it would have been the same if he was found guilty.  It sure seems like a simple google search will tell you that OK law would have been much more serious than what you think may have happened.

 

https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/criminal-defense/domestic-violence/oklahoma-domestic-violence-laws-charges-penalt

Domestic abuse committed against a pregnant woman

If the crime of domestic abuse is committed against a pregnant woman and the offender knew of the pregnancy, the penalties can be extremely harsh. For a first offense, the crime is a misdemeanor punishable by up to one year in jail. If the offense is a second or subsequent conviction, the crime is a felony punishable by up to ten years in prison. If the mother miscarries as a result of the domestic abuse, however, or there is any injury to the unborn child, the crime is a felony for which the offender can be sentenced up to twenty years in prison.

Domestic abuse by strangulation

If a defendant commits assault and battery by strangulation or attempted strangulation against a domestic victim listed above, with intent to cause great bodily harm, he is guilty of a felony. A first offense of this crime is punishable by one to three years in prison or a fine up to $3,000, or both. The penalty for a second or subsequent offense is three to ten years in prison or a fine up to $20,000, or both.

Ok, my bad - the penalty is worse than I thought. In the article I posted it said Hill’s punishment was consistent with 1st time offender.

but I’m not a lawyer. 

As for the rest...are you saying the victim was lying?

That Hill’s confession was purely to stay out of trouble?

possible. Unlikely,  but possible. 

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10 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I really don’t see the need to rehash the whole guilt:innocence angle anymore. He was cleared by the NFL and only if he does something else will it matter.

At this point you can say you don’t like the risk (whether it’s dynasty or redraft) based on possible bad actions in the future but it’s time to move on. There was like 35 pages discussing the type of person he is/was/will be already. Now we should only be discussing projections, news, ADP etc.

As far as whether he had past bad acts there’s a tremendous amount of bias on both sides at this point. No use in trying to change anyone’s mind - we’re a month from the start of the season. 

 

While that’s fair, I think that history is relevant to the current situation when someone acts like it’s a 1-off & no big deal. That’s the only reason I brought up that history.  

I’m out on Hill. I drafted him last year & loved the production, but it wasn’t a great feeling drafting a dude who had that history.

if people want to take the risk, I wish you all the best of luck with your leagues. 

Hopefully his pattern of violence against women doesn’t continue to escalate. 

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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Ok, my bad - the penalty is worse than I thought. In the article I posted it said Hill’s punishment was consistent with 1st time offender.

but I’m not a lawyer. 

As for the rest...are you saying the victim was lying?

That Hill’s confession was purely to stay out of trouble?

possible. Unlikely,  but possible. 

Nope, not making judgment at all. Just refuting your comment about why someone would please when innocent. He had a lot to lose as a young 20 year old with a promising NFL career. My opinion is that people should be open to the POSSIBILITY (don't have to believe it based upon the other things you read) that a public defender advised him that his best move for his future was to admit guilt, take a penalty and probation and have the conviction expunged after 3 years. 

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24 minutes ago, HULLOBUDMAN said:

Nope, not making judgment at all. Just refuting your comment about why someone would please when innocent. He had a lot to lose as a young 20 year old with a promising NFL career. My opinion is that people should be open to the POSSIBILITY (don't have to believe it based upon the other things you read) that a public defender advised him that his best move for his future was to admit guilt, take a penalty and probation and have the conviction expunged after 3 years. 

I’m open to that possibility. 

And that was the benefit of the doubt I gave Hill last year.

the newest incident made it harder to be that generous about the first incident. 

It is what it is. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
Typo

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23 minutes ago, HULLOBUDMAN said:

Nope, not making judgment at all. Just refuting your comment about why someone would please when innocent. He had a lot to lose as a young 20 year old with a promising NFL career. My opinion is that people should be open to the POSSIBILITY (don't have to believe it based upon the other things you read) that a public defender advised him that his best move for his future was to admit guilt, take a penalty and probation and have the conviction expunged after 3 years. 

You are right, anything is possible. Maybe Obama did it and he was taking the blame for the good of the country.  For me, you say you beat your pregnant girlfriend I'll believe it. 

The idea that people are saying all that is fake is pretty gross. I know guys like you are beating your chests right now but you are embarrassing yourselves. Probably a good time to move on.

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This f***in thread. Just when I get out it pulls me back in. 

If Damien Williams is hurt and the backups are forced to start, does that affect Hill's value? If so, does it increase it or decrease it?

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3 minutes ago, steelers1080 said:

This f***in thread. Just when I get out it pulls me back in. 

If Damien Williams is hurt and the backups are forced to start, does that affect Hill's value? If so, does it increase it or decrease it?

I don’t think it makes a huge difference. Hill’s gonna Hill as long as he’s on the field. 

Maybe they use a few more quick hitters or WR screens, and Hill would likely benefit from that, but likely not more than Kelce. 

And it’s not like they have no running backs - Andy Reid can scheme for anyone to suit up & do pretty well. 

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5 minutes ago, steelers1080 said:

This f***in thread. Just when I get out it pulls me back in. 

If Damien Williams is hurt and the backups are forced to start, does that affect Hill's value? If so, does it increase it or decrease it?

Probably hurts because the defense can give him more attention. 

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1 hour ago, kutta said:

@Hot Sauce Guy, have you listened to the full tape that’s out now? If not, you should give it a listen. I felt pretty much the same way you do, then I listened to the tape and it changed my perception of the incident you’re talking about.

I agree he’s probably no saint, but I also think he comes off much more level headed than I expected, and his “girlfriend” actually is the one that needs a lot of help.

Be that as it may, he admitted to losing control, hitting & choking her. 

What folks say after the fact once they’ve strategized a PR campaign just isn’t as interesting. 

I’m not saying she isn’t nutty, because I don’t know her. But I’m also never a guy to say, “she had it coming”  as the prevailing “pro-Hill” side here seems to suggest.

Theres never (I repeat, *ne-ver*) a reason to lay hands on a woman. Never. And if it’s escalating to the point that a man is losing control, then that man should walk away, drive away, get on a train - whatever. Just leave. 

Hill didn’t do that. And now we have a 2nd incident. 

And it fits the pattern of domestic abuse.

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13 minutes ago, voiceofunreason said:

Probably hurts because the defense can give him more attention. 

I’m not sure how - he’s too fast & the schemes are too complex. 

Even if Hyde is a 2.7 ypc plodder, defenses will have to account for someone in the backfield. 

I feel like if it were the opposite it would be far more impactful. If Hill goes down, I’d expect DWilliams numbers to suffer. 

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23 minutes ago, steelers1080 said:

This f***in thread. Just when I get out it pulls me back in. 

If Damien Williams is hurt and the backups are forced to start, does that affect Hill's value? If so, does it increase it or decrease it?

I don’t think its affected one way or the other. It’s not like Damien Williams is some great talent. He’s a solid back in a great system. The other backs would likely be fine.

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