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Tom Brady If Never Drafted by the Pats (1 Viewer)

What would Brady be if drafted by someone else?

  • Hall of Famer

    Votes: 31 26.3%

  • Pro Bowler, but not HOF

    Votes: 16 13.6%

  • Lifetime Starter Only

    Votes: 19 16.1%

  • Decent Short Career

    Votes: 9 7.6%

  • Journeyman

    Votes: 21 17.8%

  • Pfffft late round pick, most or all coaches never would have given him a chance

    Votes: 22 18.6%
  • Total voters
    118
SaintsInDome2006

SaintsInDome2006

Footballguy
The coincidence of Belichick with Brady seems like too much. Is it possible BB made him like he made Welker and Gronk and now he's creating Hogan and Lewis?

What does the cognoscenti say?

 
spider321 said:
I understand the point you were trying to make, but big swing and miss on Gronk.

Best TE to ever play the game.  BB or no BB.
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This could go down a different tangent, but switch Gronk and Graham and I think we'd have the same results for their teams.  Either way, Gronk is certainly in the discussion for GOAT.  That's rather besides the point though. 

BB puts Brady in the discussion for GOAT.  Without BB, Tom would still be a perennial all pro. 

 
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Graham can't block a sneeze and for the past 3 years has figured out that he isn't physical to even be a tight end receiver, defenders just smack the #### out of him and he can't do anything when they do it. Graham isn't even in the realm of conversation.

 
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Run It Up said:
Graham can't block a sneeze and for the past 3 years has figured out that he isn't physical to even be a tight end receiver, defenders just smack the #### out of him and he can't do anything when they do it. Graham isn't even in the realm of conversation.
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I'm saying he'd be coached up.  Which is the point of this thread. 

 
If flies had machine guns, frogs wouldn't f-%# with them...but what happened, happened.  

 
Warner was an historical accident wasn't he?

What if Bledsoe doesn't take that hit which sent him to the ER?

What if Green stayed upright?

That 2000 Super Bowl was something else in retrospect.

 
FUBAR said:
This could go down a different tangent, but switch Gronk and Graham and I think we'd have the same results for their teams.  Either way, Gronk is certainly in the discussion for GOAT.  That's rather besides the point though. 

BB puts Brady in the discussion for GOAT.  Without BB, Tom would still be a perennial all pro. 
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Graham doesn't explode for too many other teams besides the Saints. 

 
I think Brady wouldn't have been as great without Belichick but still a HoF QB.  Brady would have been equal to Peyton instead of being clearly on a higher level than him.

 
spider321 said:
I understand the point you were trying to make, but big swing and miss on Gronk.

Best TE to ever play the game.  BB or no BB.




 
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this is hard to follow. He was part of Aaron Hernandez combo so I'm not sure what the first sentence means.

Hernandez was similar to better each year they were there. Tony G and Shannon Sharpe and Gates were better IMO. I really don't like how frequently he is injured.

 
Baloney Sandwich said:
I think Brady wouldn't have been as great without Belichick but still a HoF QB.  Brady would have been equal to Peyton instead of being clearly on a higher level than him.
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This.

Think about if Rivers and Brady switched teams how different their careers would have been.

 
Brady would have been a backup for as long as it would have taken until he got a chance. IIRC he was pretty darn good immediately after coming in off the bench. I think his career would have been somewhere between good and great, depending where he landed, but he was going to be a quality starter no matter what. 

 
I love how crazed people get when their opinions on this sort of discussion are disagreed with.

 
The next QB picked after Brady went to Washington. Assuming he goes there, by the time Spurrier was done, Brady would have committed suicide.

 
Brady had the drive to make himself great wherever he went.  However, he wouldn't have had the Superbowl and team success anywhere else.  I think he would have been a very solid starter for many years, but the combo with Belichick was/is lightning in a bottle.  Two peas in a pod doing great things at an elite level.  And how I hate them for it.

 
Bri said:
this is hard to follow. He was part of Aaron Hernandez combo so I'm not sure what the first sentence means.

Hernandez was similar to better each year they were there. Tony G and Shannon Sharpe and Gates were better IMO. I really don't like how frequently he is injured.
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None of those guys were ever as good as Gronk and Hernandez was another big receiver who couldn't block.

It's like you guys don't watch football.

 
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Maybe he wouldn't have been convicted multiple times cheating and not have his achievements tarnished? Can you add that to the poll please?

 
He's a really really good QB. Perhaps he wouldn't have had the team success he's had - but unless he was dumped into a horrendous situation, he likely would have been a Pro Bowl QB year in and year out. There are plenty of places where he still could have been a HOF caliber and won a Super Bowl or two (i.e. Pitts, Denver, NYG, Bal, etc.)

With that said Belichick is the GOAT in coaching and the year Brady was injured and the beginning of this year shows he had plenty to do with Brady's success.

 
I think he's a HOF, all-time great and that Walking Boot is still correct. Never would have gotten the chance in most places. He sat behind Griese at Much, for effing sakes. 

 
This is silly. We only know what we know, we don't know what we don't know. A lot would depend which team he ended up on and who was on the coaching staff. But we could say this about any QB. What if Montana got drafted by the Lions instead. Or if Peyton ended up on the Bengals?

 
rockaction said:
I think he's a HOF, all-time great and that Walking Boot is still correct. Never would have gotten the chance in most places. He sat behind Griese at Much, for effing sakes.
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Griese was two years ahead of Brady.

The bigger laugh is Carr rotated Brady with Drew Hensen.

 
Anarchy99 said:
This is silly. We only know what we know, we don't know what we don't know. A lot would depend which team he ended up on and who was on the coaching staff. But we could say this about any QB. What if Montana got drafted by the Lions instead. Or if Peyton ended up on the Bengals?
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Your point is sound up until Peyton.  Nothing would have changed if he were a Bengal, it's not like the Indy coaches made Peyton great or most of his team was anything special (Marvin and edge, sure).  Except Ocho would have been better. 

 
Peyton was going to be great no matter where he ended up.  It's not like Indy was some great beacon of success when he got there.

 
Bri said:
this is hard to follow. He was part of Aaron Hernandez combo so I'm not sure what the first sentence means.

Hernandez was similar to better each year they were there. Tony G and Shannon Sharpe and Gates were better IMO. I really don't like how frequently he is injured.
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:lmao:

 
Depends on where Brady went.  He had a decent college career. He didn't do well at the combine. His physical abilities seem average when compared to other QBs.  He, maybe more than anyone in professional sports, got lucky and then made the most of his opportunity.

 
Many players are made by situations.  I truly believe had the Detroit Lions drafted Emmitt Smith and the Cowboys Barry Sanders that Sanders would still be in the HOF and we would be saying Emmitt who? Smith might have been out of the league in 4-5 years with Detroit.

 
FUBAR said:
Your point is sound up until Peyton.  Nothing would have changed if he were a Bengal, it's not like the Indy coaches made Peyton great or most of his team was anything special (Marvin and edge, sure).  Except Ocho would have been better. 
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Peyton's situation was obviously different as he was considered top shelf to begin with while Brady was more of an after thought. At the time Peyton joined the league, Cincinnati was a perennial cellar dweller, even with the likes of Ocho Cinco and Dillon. A good QB covers a lot of issues, but poor coaching and bad management can derail a team.

 
BobbyLayne said:
Better question: tell me what Belichick's career is like without Brady.
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This is also impossible to predict. BB has always put together a top team and coaching staff to go with Brady. Take away Bradsaw from the Steelers, Aikman from the Cowboys, Montant for the Niners, etc. and how good would those coaches ahve been?

 
Anarchy99 said:
Peyton's situation was obviously different as he was considered top shelf to begin with while Brady was more of an after thought. At the time Peyton joined the league, Cincinnati was a perennial cellar dweller, even with the likes of Ocho Cinco and Dillon. A good QB covers a lot of issues, but poor coaching and bad management can derail a team.
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Granted this is all speculation but assuming the Bengals still signed Marvin Lewis, I'll go out on a limb and say Peyton would have had a very similar career.  

 
BobbyLayne said:
Better question: tell me what Belichick's career is like without Brady.
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His record is 14-6 as the Patriots HC in games without Brady, so pretty good?

While he may have "failed" overall in Cleveland, I think he was the last HC that took them to the playoffs still - so that may not be on him.

Obviously they have both benefitted from each other.

 
Some guys were gonna be great NFL players no matter where they played - Barry Sanders, Jerry Rice, Peyton Manning, Lawrence Taylor.

Some guys ended up in the right situations to become all-time greats - Emmitt Smith and, yes, Tom Brady.  And it's not an insult to say that. 

Also, regarding Gronk, his peak is the highest of any TE ever, for sure, but he's not the GOAT yet.  He needs longevity and health to get there.  You  can't be the GOAT if you are getting hurt almost every year. 

 
BobbyLayne said:
Better question: tell me what Belichick's career is like without Brady.
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This is the key.

Belichick had the algorithm for mapping opponent responses in order to be able to get one person, spot, hole open per play. He would have eventually developed that into the rubs and picks, blocking schemes and such which add up to something singular and winning. But he, too, might not have charted a way to the HOF without a qb with the vision, leverage, timing and ability to throw to spots (Brady's catchable low ball is without peer) to carry out his plan. Bledsoe wouldnta 'got' it, maybe only a handful would. Bill Belichick aint a qb Prometheus - he's the author of a plan to exploit tendencies and the coach of men willing to 'do their jobs'. Brady made BB as much as the other way around. So its a match - both would have found a notable level but not what they have in finding each other. Yay for them, yay for us.

 
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Anarchy99 said:
This is also impossible to predict. BB has always put together a top team and coaching staff to go with Brady. Take away Bradsaw from the Steelers, Aikman from the Cowboys, Montant for the Niners, etc. and how good would those coaches ahve been?
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That's more or less my point. Yes, it's absurd / impossible to consider BB sans TB. We would never hold a HC to the standard of "yeah but take away his HoF QB & how good is he really?"

Yet folks have thought it's perfectly acceptable to refer to Brady as a system QB. Or act like he'd be average or never would have had a shot without Belichick. And ten years ago it was "he wouldn't have any of his three rings without Vinitaeri."

 
BobbyLayne said:
Better question: tell me what Belichick's career is like without Brady.
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BB was ready to go to war with Bledsoe as his QB.  The D was the catalyst for those first couple of teams.  Hard to predict a Super Bowl, but I imagine those eariler Pats teams aren't much different. 

 
Thunderlips said:
BB was ready to go to war with Bledsoe as his QB.  The D was the catalyst for those first couple of teams.  Hard to predict a Super Bowl, but I imagine those eariler Pats teams aren't much different. 
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BB was not a fan of Bledsoe and there was talk of benching him even before he got a punctured lung and Brady taking over. Someone other than Brady or Bledsoe would have been QB early in 2001. 

 
Thunderlips said:
BB was ready to go to war with Bledsoe as his QB.  The D was the catalyst for those first couple of teams.  Hard to predict a Super Bowl, but I imagine those eariler Pats teams aren't much different. 
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I think people may be forgetting that Brady got hurt early in the AFC Championship game and Bledsoe came in and led a small comeback against Pittsburgh and won the game. There was actually a small amount of controversy as to whether Bledsoe should start the Super Bowl given his performance in the AFCCG and with Brady being merely a game manager that first season. Belichick quickly put that to rest by coming out and saying Brady would start if healthy.

It was the defense, running game and Vinateri that was responsible for (at least) that first Super Bowl.

 
Anarchy99 said:
This is silly. We only know what we know, we don't know what we don't know. A lot would depend which team he ended up on and who was on the coaching staff. But we could say this about any QB. What if Montana got drafted by the Lions instead. Or if Peyton ended up on the Bengals?
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I think the Colts were really not that great of an organization, especially in the latter part of his career.  Peyton's coaches were mediocre to bad IMO...

 
Patriots homer here

BB definitely made Brady. He makes all his players better. He installs a work ethic of preparation in all his players. And if they don't like it, BB will let the door hit them as he throws them out. 

Unless Brady was given the opportunity on another team, he would have just been an OK backup and faded into obscurity.

Here is a question to ask...If Drew Leadshoe doesn't get hurt, does Brady remain with the Patriots?

 
davper said:
Patriots homer here

BB definitely made Brady. He makes all his players better. He installs a work ethic of preparation in all his players. And if they don't like it, BB will let the door hit them as he throws them out. 

Unless Brady was given the opportunity on another team, he would have just been an OK backup and faded into obscurity.

Here is a question to ask...If Drew Leadshoe doesn't get hurt, does Brady remain with the Patriots?
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Yes. Bledsoe was on his way out. There was talk of Brady taking over whether Drew got hurt or not. BB didn't care for Bledsoe. 

 
I think if Brady got opportunity on some other team he'd probably still develop into one of the better QBs in the NFL. His fast decision making is going to do well enough on most teams. Assuming he's still coming in as a 5th round pick in this hypothetical, it isn't a given he'd going to get opportunity though.

But I don't think there's any question Belichick utilizes the strengths of his players, especially Brady, and also games the rules, as well as any other coach. Odds are Brady wouldn't end up in as good of a situation in that regard so I don't expect his career would go as well.  Pro Bowl at some point (if given opportunity), probably. HoF, really too hard to say though definitely possible.

 
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